welker's catch would not have iced the game...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    See this is where you get into variables but with how the Giants were about to lose their entire shot at a championship on one play.

    With Welkers catch he puts the Patriots inside the Giants 20 with them having only one time out a fresh set of downs and putting up 6 makes it a two possession game. 

    The throw wasn't perfect but Rolle picks that off and takes it back the other way if Tom throws that aggressively over the backshoulder. There was no room. Either he has to throw it to Hernandez setting up a third and short (what I preferred)  or Wes has to catch that. For a man who said he was open every play before the game and hen can't come up with a routine catch its very hard to be rough on Wes. 

    Thankfully there will be a tomrorrow just not for awhile lol. Hopefully we can get the guy some help so theres not as much attenion on him anymore. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    welker's incompletion was one of several miscues on the o side that resulted in lower production than normal, for this high-powered offense. don't use nyg's d as an excuse. else, you would just be admitting that the o can't play a good 60 mins against a good d.

    it's really pointless to argue/nitpick on one play.... or even on one drive. nobody plays perfect ball. the game boiled down to production - the sum of all the plays by each side.
    • did the o produce even close to their normal sunday night production? far from it.
    • did the d allow the opposing o allow them to produce more than or qual to their norm? the answer is no.
    asking the d to win it was basically asking them to perform way better than their normal, to compensate for the o's far below par performance. that's more to ask of someone to ask to perform above their norm than to ask someone to perform to norm.

    think of it this way... with zero production from the o over the last 26 mins, the only reason the pats were leading in the last four mins, anyway, was because the d kept it for 22 mins. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    Great QB's make better throws and decisions.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaxpat. Show jaxpat's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game... : plenty of blame to go around, bad offensive game plan, D didn't let up many points but really couldn't get off the field either, nor was able to stop the Giants on their last offensive possession. Two fumbles forced, but none recovered. Offense gives up a pick. Simply not good enough in any of the 3 phases of the game.
    Posted by anonymis
    Here's a different slant on the Wes Welker non catch.  I wonder if he had a signed contract for next season and beyond he would not of felt the pressure to perform in this game and possibly would of approached with a lot more relaxed attitude.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    You are right but you are wrong. 

    From a statistical perspective, the chances of the Pats winning dropped a full 30 percent, from 95 percent to 65 percent, after the Welker drop/incompletion. 

    It was the highest percentage change on the odds of victory of the entire game. 

    Statistically, it was 95 percent, not 100, so yeah, the Pats would have had things to do to close the game out from there. But, you can see that the swing on that one play was pretty big. 

    Even with a field goal, the worst case scenario if the completion is made, it does put more pressure on the Giants knowing they have to make it into the end zone...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    " Great QB's make better throws and decisions."

    If you don't think Brady is a great QB you shouldn't even call yourself a Pats fan, hopefully you don't.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    To me the thing about the Welker drop was that even if he catches that, it would not have come close to ending the game. They would have been on the 19 yard-line with 4:06 left. With one Giants time out left and the two minute warning, there simply was not enough yardage/too much time for the Patriots to run out the clock. They needed to get a touchdown still. 

    If the Patriots kick the FG, the Giants are getting the ball with between one and two minutes left down by 5 points. Unless they get a TD after the Welker play, the defense is put in the same position with less time on the clock, but still needing to come up with a stop.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    " Great QB's make better throws and decisions." If you don't think Brady is a great QB you shouldn't even call yourself a Pats fan, hopefully you don't.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker


    Brady was NOT great and did NOT make great throws and decisions in this game or the previous one against Baltimore.

    Yes, he was great when he was 16 for 16 in that one span during the SB but when it comes down to it he didn't play like "The Greatest QB to Ever Play The Game".

    So, don't tell me I shouldn't call myself a Pats fan.  I'm just not a Brady Ballwasher like some on this site.

    The idiots that expected the mediocre at best defense to win this game are just that- Idiots.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game... : Here's a different slant on the Wes Welker non catch.  I wonder if he had a signed contract for next season and beyond he would not of felt the pressure to perform in this game and possibly would of approached with a lot more relaxed attitude.
    Posted by jaxpat

    at that moment in time, I doubt Welker was thinking about a contract.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    On the Welker drive they tried running the ball with poor results. BGJE for 3 yards, Woodhead for 1 yard, BJGE for -1 yard. The Giants were stacked up against the run that possession. The knew incomplete passes would stop the clock and there is a better chance of a mistake happening (bad throw, dropped ball, etc.) in the passing game. Also, there was 4:06 on the clock on the Welker play. The Giants only had one time out left plus the two minute warning, but still the Patriots would have needed two maybe three more first downs to run out the clock without scoring.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm
     
    Three first downs aren't possible from the 20 yard line.  As a matter of fact, two first dows aren't possible.

    If Wes makes the catch, the probable worst case would have been a FG after the two minute warning.  Oh well, I'm looking foward to next year. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    As you say, if they get a touchdown OR a 1st down, it ices the game.  Would have liked those odds. But it wasn't Welker's fault.  Throw was way off.
    Posted by Norger


    I completely disagree.

    If you watch the replay again, it was either a blown coverage, or Rolle guessed on an underneath and guessed wrong.

    Regardless, there was a huge hole in the coverage, and Brady saw it better than Welker did. Had Brady thrown the ball "accurately", or where everyone seems to think he should have thrown it, he would have either hung Welker out to dry, and resulted in the safety taking Welk's head off, or he would have thrown an inteception.

    He threw the ball to protect his receiver and to protect the football, and Welker didn't catch it. It hit him in both hands, he has to catch that. I blame Welker for that drop.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...:
    In Response to Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game... : I completely disagree. If you watch the replay again, it was either a blown coverage, or Rolle guessed on an underneath and guessed wrong. Regardless, there was a huge hole in the coverage, and Brady saw it better than Welker did. Had Brady thrown the ball "accurately", or where everyone seems to think he should have thrown it, he would have either hung Welker out to dry, and resulted in the safety taking Welk's head off, or he would have thrown an inteception. He threw the ball to protect his receiver and to protect the football, and Welker didn't catch it. It hit him in both hands, he has to catch that. I blame Welker for that drop.
    Posted by vertigho


    I suppose Welker could have come down with it (certainly a less difficult catch than Tyree's), but I don't buy the argument that he had to throw the ball to Welker's inside shoulder.  Welker had at least a step on everyone in coverage.  If the ball was thrown to his outside shoulder, it's a touchdown or an incompletion.  Still think it was a bad throw; high and inside.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6XziIQ5RI


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from teibore1. Show teibore1's posts

    Re: welker's catch would not have iced the game...

    Minkovich's offsides penalty on 3rd and 7 when Eli threw an incompletion was just as big as any of the drops.  Keeps the drive alive and they end up with 3 pts from it.  12 men on the field negating a fumble was even bigger.  Giants get the ball back and score a TD.  On Brady's INT the LB actually used his right arm to push off of Gronk but it wasn't called (would have been a weak call anyways).  Regardless, Gronk should have ripped the LB's head off and taken a offensive pass intereference call when he saw the ball was coming up short.

    On the safety Welker was open.  He ran a similar route to the 4th quarter Manningham play.  Brady must have already progressed from him in his reads.  I'm suprised with that play call. 
     
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