Welker's Comment says it all

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    It was a field position game and the Jets did the two things you need to do to win a field position game: 1) Get the best field position 2) Play great defense to insure great field position. They kept switching up zone and man coverage enough to confuse Brady and they have the DBs to execute their gameplan.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    This loss was much more than being outcoached, although that certainly played a part. Turnovers, dropped passes, penalties, failed fake punt, failed onside kicks, poor clock management, no wonder we lost! Even until the end, I thought we were going to pull it out.

    I think Tom E. Curran was correct when he said Brady's margin for error was small this year and Tom was up to the task until last Sunday. The first quarter was pivotal and we dominated just like we were continuing the 45-3 game. But when the quarter ended and we were only up 3-0, it became a different game.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    The problem with this team is its defense, it's not anywhere near dominating and the teams you face in the playoffs are. Brady gets us there and then he can't carry us, because of the defenses he is facing. I know he faces tough D's all year, but the playoofs are different, it's so ramped up and every inch counts...you don't get that type of effort out of defenses in the regular season.

    When we had a dominating front seven that would never let the Jets to score right after we got withing three, Brady could be not so perfect and win it in the end. Did anyone watch any of those Championship seasons?
    1. Snow Bowl- struggled the first half, defense kept it close.
    2. 1st Super Bowl- very pedestrian numbers, defense kept us in it, he won it at the end.
    3. Ice bowl- was very stagnent a lot of the game, defense kept them in it.
    4. Pittsburgh the next week- He was lights out
    5. Carolina Super Bowl- He was sharp early, then stagnent, finished strong, had a devastating pick that could and should of cost us...maybe one of the worst performances out of our D. And one of his best.
    6. Colts- Correy Dillon was strong, the D was huge and he had to do very little.
    7. Philly Super Bowl- Killed a drive early with a pick, but was very sharp most of the game...the D was outstanding.

    We are missing something now. We had 3 1st rounders on our D line...Three!!
    We had Mcginnest, Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison, Phiefor...right now we have Mayo.

    Don't blame Brady...he threw one pick. You can't expect QB's to play like MVP's in the playoffs!! It doesn't happen! Never has and never will. Defenses and weather won't allow it, unless your defense looks like ours:(
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]I'm surprised more teams didn't do what the Browns did which was flood the middle with zone coverage and leave the outside one on one, brady double clutched in both games cause so many defenders were in the area
    Posted by harleyroadking11[/QUOTE]

    It could be other teams didn't have the personnel. It will be interesting to see if BB goes to that set next season. It seems to be a logical defense causing short yardage, over the middle confusion requiring precise long range passes or difficult sideline routes.

    A Braylon Edwards? Dez Bryant type receiver--tall and fast--would have an advantage against a team flooding the middle. 

    It will be interesting to see if the Jets implement that today.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    BB is superb when his scripted plans are spot on, but when he misses his team does not adapt. He has substituted the fire of competition and creativity for calm predictability.This works either in a blowout for them or confusion and discouragement when when it does not. He must loosen up the control and allow some creativity.They need to simulate possibilites when things dont work. His coordinators adjustments reflect their lack of confidence and reasonableness.The adjustments like the fake kick seemed more in panic. Control people can be disrupted by the fire of adaptation and in this outing the Jets had the fire while the Pats had the script. This time the fire won.He must give more responsibility early season to his coaches. Remembering what GenPatton said the "an imperfect plan exected violently now is better than a perfect plan next week".Plan, do it with fire and violence and you win.Struggle with perfection and script and its still a struggle.Wilfork understands this.I am not sure BB does.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all : actually in the giants SB brady drove the team within the last 3 minutes to come from behind and take the lead... we all know the rest so whether his performance in the game was lights out or not he did what he needed at the end...  the rest of the team ie..defense did not....    and in this jest game...though again he wasnt lights out he was pretty good and they scored 21 and it should have been more ...again the 58 yard pass and run was a killer... and the crumpler drop was a killer.... so dont look a brady he "did his JOb"  was he great no but definately good enough to win if you hold the opposing team to a reasonable amount of points.....you win as a team and you lose as a team...
    Posted by jcour382[/QUOTE]

    It's very much a comparison worth making the Giants SB and the Jets playoff loss...
    1. Both cases, the Pats were on long winning streaks
    2. Both cases, the Pats seemed to score at will in a previous meeting late in reg. season (Giants and Jets)
    3. Both cases, the Pats appeared tight in its offensive approach, changing their game schemes to try to out-guess their supposedly inferior opponent.
    4. Both cases, the Pats were facing teams with outstanding pass rushes. The Giants blitzed, while the Jets stayed in a blanket coverage, but still got many hits to Brady, just like the Giants.
    5. And this is the major one...Both cases...Pats finally discover their offense with a great drive...TD to take lead in SB, and TD to cut it to 14-11 in 3rd Q v. Jets...In both cases, the Pats could not stop their opponent on the ensuing series. In both cases, had the defense just made one stop right there, you would have had a 4th SB champion, and the Pats might have come back to beat Jets (although that would have been hard to tell..once Jets scored rather immediately to make it 21-11, game was in control for NY..)
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    The big picture issue here folks is the defense.  Tom Brady has one bad day and they are knocked out of the playoffs.  Sanchez has a bad day every day he plays, yet they are in the AFC Championship game 2 years running.  Why?  Because sometimes you need your defense to make a stop.  To get off the field.  To put together a couple of "three and outs".  Had the defense made a stop after the botched punt, had they made another stop or 2 in the second half, the game comes down to the wire and the offense has a chance to pull it out at the end. Sound familiar?  You bet!  That's how the '03 and '04 teams won games.  Too much is on the offense to score every possession, and THAT is this team's fatal flaw.  If your offense has to double as a defense, you're not going to win playoff games.  End of discussion.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    Pats new mantra.."wait till next year."
     
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    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]You are using regular season numbers. Brady has failed in the playoffs. No one is upset about his regular season play. He just hasn't been the same player come January.  Did he play well against the ravens last year? How about the Giants in the super bowl?  How about the 2007 AFCCG? Another awful performance. This team hasn't won a superbowl since 2005, and Brady has had bad numbers in the playoffs since then.  The issue is that Brady is pooping his pants in the playoffs. Go ahead and blame every other person on payroll for the pats, but Brady's playoff performance has been an issue the last 5 years. He needs to address this issue if they are going to win anything meaningful. In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]


    Sorry Rockdog,

    This is a team sport and Brady isn't the only one out there. Brady had plenty of time to throw against the Jets but even the commentators noticed his recievers were well covered all day. If the Pats had changed the strategy a bit in using Green Ellis it would have opened up some passing routes but the Pats were one dimensional and became predictable. If Crumpler and Welker hadn't dropped passes for touchdowns and or Branch had picked up the first down with his dropped pass the Pats would have won this game and you'd be praising Brady. 

    Hetchinspete.    
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]Welker is playing with fire!  Welker's insubordination, make require BB to take him to the woodshed!
    Posted by DontQuestionBB[/QUOTE]

         Evidently, things are going on with the Pats behind the scenes, that aren't being reported. My guess is that Wes saw what happened to Randy Moss, saw that his role on the team was being diminished, and is concerned about his  contract status. So...he may be popping off to facilitate a trade. 

         Welker has been a Patriot long enough to know that if you cross the boss, you get punted.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all : It could be other teams didn't have the personnel. It will be interesting to see if BB goes to that set next season. It seems to be a logical defense causing short yardage, over the middle confusion requiring precise long range passes or difficult sideline routes. A Braylon Edwards? Dez Bryant type receiver--tall and fast--would have an advantage against a team flooding the middle.  It will be interesting to see if the Jets implement that today.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

         Could it also be that the Patriots were what we thought they were, earlier in the season? Back then, the consensus was that the Pats were rebuilding. That they were flawed on defense due to a thin DL, a lack of pass-rushers, and a weak secondary. That the offense was a "finesse" offense, which was dependent on the pass.

         To get on BB now is ridiculous. The Pats grossly over-achieved this season, finishing with the best regular season record in the NFL, at 14-2. Who but BB could have gotten such a performance out of the 2010 edition of the Good Guys?

         Could it be that the Pats as a team were arrogant and over-confident, coming off their great regular season, and their 45-3 shellacking of the Jets, just 5 weeks before the scheduled playoff game? Could it be that the players were reading too many of their own press-clippings, and were already focusing on how they were going to split up their SB tickets? Could it be that there are other very good teams and coaches in the NFL, besides the Pats and BB? 

         Stop questioning "what happened"? If you-all really want to know "what happened", read this article written by Tedy Bruschi: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=bruschi_tedy&id=6030037  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    Its always everything
    but i first go with making plays = execution

    the INT on Drive 1 set a Tempo

    Brady wasn't perfect anymore but beatable
     and JESTS know they aren't going
    toget blown out- we get no points
    Set tone for the game

    Poor execution on Punt FAke
     - really another turnover
    Down 11

    We only scored 3 pts
     we were in a hole
    even worse than the SB


    WE seem to be built this year
    - We have to lead to win
    3 fumbles - not lost but mistakes,
    0=2 in turnovers - you know what
    they say about losing TO  battle

    plus penalties and a few drops

    The PAts made all the mistakes

    The Jests made none and made a few great ones
    WE wre not killed on comparqble STats
    e
    and in a Defensie Playoff  game we lose


     i do wonder what happened to our vaunted horizontal game
    and the "cloud "covergae the jests said they used

    it is so hard to see anything on TV
    Even the TV anaylist were waiting tto see the game films
    on Mocayat the NFL

     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]And for any poster who wants to protect the sacred cow go read Ron Jaworski's thoughts. He said Brady played tight and fast, which is apparent for anyone not willing to build a conspiracy theory as to why the pats lost despite strong play from Brady.
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]


    I'm confused.. HOW many times did Jaworski win the SuperBowl?  Was is MORE than Tom, LESS than TOM, or NEVER GOT A SNIFF?  When Jaws gives out advice, it is not as bad as some, but I won't take his word for it just because he played QB decently.  

    Brady threw to Gronks outside shoulder twice, and Gronk had adjusted IN.  Thats more rookie stuff than anything else.  I don't think Brady played badly, and for sure he had ALL day to throw, there were some plays where he was just holding the ball to long and I wondered why he wouldn't just run.. now I know why.  Other than that, Jets played their A game, we played our B or C game, and the rookies were a bit off.  
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    I think this whole thing is grossly overanalyzed. Throughtout the year, the defense had an advantage in that the Pats were usually well ahead. This allows the defense to be more aggressive. That worked well enough to be 14-2. Had the Pats scored touchdowns on their first two drives, as seemed probable from their history, it would have allowed the defense to play more aggressively. And it would have forced Sanchez to take more chances. Sanchez, right now, is a QB that you hope doesn't lose the game for you. You really can't expect him to win the game for you. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]I think this whole thing is grossly overanalyzed. Throughtout the year, the defense had an advantage in that the Pats were usually well ahead. This allows the defense to be more aggressive. That worked well enough to be 14-2. Had the Pats scored touchdowns on their first two drives, as seemed probable from their history, it would have allowed the defense to play more aggressively. And it would have forced Sanchez to take more chances. Sanchez, right now, is a QB that you hope doesn't lose the game for you. You really can't expect him to win the game for you. 
    Posted by modod[/QUOTE]

         The Brady pick was inexcusable. It was a mistake that you would expect a rookie to make...not a decorated veteran. Then, there was the Crumpler TD drop. These boners gave the Jets hope. With the "D" unable to come within 5 yards of Sanchez for the entire game, he was able to make plays...instead of turnovers.

         The Pats must improve their pass-rush next season. It's the thing that's stopping them from taking the "next step", from contender to champion.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all :      Could it also be that the Patriots were what we thought they were, earlier in the season? Back then, the consensus was that the Pats were rebuilding. That they were flawed on defense due to a thin DL, a lack of pass-rushers, and a weak secondary. That the offense was a "finesse" offense, which was dependent on the pass.      To get on BB now is ridiculous. The Pats grossly over-achieved this season, finishing with the best regular season record in the NFL, at 14-2. Who but BB could have gotten such a performance out of the 2010 edition of the Good Guys?      Could it be that the Pats as a team were arrogant and over-confident, coming off their great regular season, and their 45-3 shellacking of the Jets, just 5 weeks before the scheduled playoff game? Could it be that the players were reading too many of their own press-clippings, and were already focusing on how they were going to split up their SB tickets? Could it be that there are other very good teams and coaches in the NFL, besides the Pats and BB?       Stop questioning "what happened"? If you-all really want to know "what happened", read this article written by Tedy Bruschi: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=bruschi_tedy&id=6030037   
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


     Could it also be that the Patriots were what we thought they were, earlier in the season? Back then, the consensus was that the Pats were rebuilding. That they were flawed on defense due to a thin DL, a lack of pass-rushers, and a weak secondary. That the offense was a "finesse" offense, which was dependent on the pass.

    Response:  To use the words of the Man himself, "It is what its is." and "You are what your record says you are."  You can't go back to what pre-season predictions said about the Pats because they toppled those predictions by going 14 and 2, regular season.  According to their record, and thus to BB, the Pats were the best team in football.  That's what they were going into the Jet's game.  Coming out of the Jet"s game we've seen a whole lot of back-peddling regarding their talent, talent that was good enough, with the toughest schedule in the league, to go 14  -2 regular season:  but now, 0 - 3, last 3 playoffs.

    If BB is right and it is what it is and you are what your record says you are then it's clear that the Pats are masters of the regular season but choke up in the playoffs.

         To get on BB now is ridiculous. The Pats grossly over-achieved this season, finishing with the best regular season record in the NFL, at 14-2. Who but BB could have gotten such a performance out of the 2010 edition of the Good Guys?

    R:  It was a massive failure across the board but people ascribe more of the blame to Belichick because he is the lead dog, the Commanding General, the Engineer at the controls.  Do the Pats, as an organization, think they can win the SB this way? 

    I agree, nobody but BB could have gotten 14 - 2 out of this edition of the Pats, but the recent playoff record shows a trend-line indicating that they can't take it to the next level, and it's the next level fans want.  Will they do what ever is necessary to get there?

         Could it be that the Pats as a team were arrogant and over-confident, coming off their great regular season, and their 45-3 shellacking of the Jets, just 5 weeks before the scheduled playoff game? Could it be that the players were reading too many of their own press-clippings, and were already focusing on how they were going to split up their SB tickets? Could it be that there are other very good teams and coaches in the NFL, besides the Pats and BB? 


    Response:  Good question.  So were they who we thought they were pre-season or an over-confidant, arrogant bunch.  If the latter, doesn't that indicate a failure of preparation by the coaching staff?  Or do you ascribe it only to immaturity, despite the many veterans to school the young'uns?

    Well, now they know, there are other good teams and coaches out there.  A tough way to learn a lesson, though.

         Stop questioning "what happened"? If you-all really want to know "what happened", read this article written by Tedy Bruschi: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=bruschi_tedy&id=6030037  


    Very good article.  A lot about what the Jet's did right.  Maybe he could write a detailed article on what the Pats did not do or did wrong.

    At any rate, you may be right, things going on behind the scenes:  we know at least Wilfork and Welker are speaking out a bit, and I'd bet they are just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    All BB had to do was run the ball with BJGE in the frst half.  Right up th emiddle - that would have MADE the jets end the 6 and 7 guys in coverage crap.

    He refused to adjust.

    The Steelers went to school on that - because they are running it right at the NY Jokes.
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]And Ryan got outcoached earlier in the 45-3 beatdown. It happens. 


    Maybe Ryan didn't get out coached that day.  Maybe he pulled a Rope-A-Dope (from Ali) on BB.  Maybe they decided to show BB nothing new for that game, believing there was a good chance they'd face the Pats again, in a much more meaningful game.  BB's magic is studying film and game planning. Knowing this, if you give him little/no visual evidence of your "winning" strategy, you have a huge advantage - your (better) athletes with a plan vs BB's (lesser) athletes lacking one. 

    Then you're left with a mix of nasty possibilities - our athletes are not as good (cast-aways, low draft picks, "value" players) - and/or - our athletes are handcuffed by BB's system and "just do your job".  If the boss does not define or structure the "job" correctly, and all you've been told is "just do your job" - you can't react or be successful.  The risk is compounded when BB refuses to hire premier offensive & defensive coordinators.

    Everything hinges on one Fuhrer.  If he fails, little/no hope for success. 


     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]Borges talks about the lack ot talent Brady talks about lack of execution Belicheck talks about them making more plays. - Wes Welker: "You work on one thing all week and you get something different." I think Welker's comment sums it up exactly.  The Pats were outcoached, plain and simple...and when you are outcoached execution suffers, you become desperate and you make mistakes.  This was apparent in the 2007 SB and it's brutally apparent this time.  The trouble is, that it's becoming a trend .  I'm not knocking BB, but something has been amiss the past few years, and it's not just the O-Line and it's just not a pass rusher etc and it's not just one bad game..... the trend doesn't lie....lately it's been a lack of preparation / coaching in the post season. I wanted to get your thoughts on this since I'm not seeing a lot of articles expanding on Wes's comments. Here's to next season!
    Posted by LifeTimePat[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    30-2 in the regular seasons in '07 and'10 says it all and then they don't win crap in the playoffs. BB is overrated. The opposition knows what he does and when the playoffs come they hand it to him. 0-3 in the last 3 playoff games is hardly Lomnbardian!
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]30-2 in the regular seasons in '07 and'10 says it all and then they don't win crap in the playoffs. BB is overrated. The opposition knows what he does and when the playoffs come they hand it to him. 0-3 in the last 3 playoff games is hardly Lomnbardian!
    Posted by jader[/QUOTE]


    Thinking the Oxygen may be a bit thin where you live.  Check your fingernails.  Do they look bluish?  Tell me, do you have a poorly ventilated wood stove?  Are you sitting in your closed garage with the car running while you type this?  
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]They won 14 games without anyone to stretch the field. Maybe the guy pulling the trigger had a bad game? Maybe the play calling was bad too? But to remake the entire roster because of sunday's choke job would be a mistake. You're also discounting any improvement from tate and Taylor price.  I hope they get a 3 down DE with one of their first picks, but you never know with the pats. All I know is that they'll be adding at least 3 more good players, which should help the team improve. But I'll say it again: If they don't execute on O next year they'll just be at home again. In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    your avatar should be a bulldog..
     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welker's Comment says it all : [QUOTE]...Maybe Ryan didn't get out coached that day.  Maybe he pulled a Rope-A-Dope (from Ali) on BB.  Maybe they decided to show BB nothing new for that game, believing there was a good chance they'd face the Pats again, in a much more meaningful game.  BB's magic is studying film and game planning. Knowing this, if you give him little/no visual evidence of your "winning" strategy, you have a huge advantage - your (better) athletes with a plan vs BB's (lesser) athletes lacking one.  Then you're left with a mix of nasty possibilities - our athletes are not as good (cast-aways, low draft picks, "value" players) - and/or - our athletes are handcuffed by BB's system and "just do your job". ..
    Posted by expertmike[/QUOTE]


    holy cow...i don't know if ryan is that clever, but definitely a clever coach would have don that. it is plausible. nyj was 9-2 going into that game. with how the records of other teams were, it would not be wrong or him to think that they only needed a win to get into the playoffs.

    there is one big thing that tells me that is not the case. the jets wanted so badly to win teh division. they were not willing to lose to the pats.


     
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    Re: Welker's Comment says it all

    In Response to Welker's Comment says it all:
    [QUOTE]Borges talks about the lack ot talent Brady talks about lack of execution Belicheck talks about them making more plays. - Wes Welker: "You work on one thing all week and you get something different." I think Welker's comment sums it up exactly.  The Pats were outcoached, plain and simple...and when you are outcoached execution suffers, you become desperate and you make mistakes.  This was apparent in the 2007 SB and it's brutally apparent this time.  The trouble is, that it's becoming a trend .  I'm not knocking BB, but something has been amiss the past few years, and it's not just the O-Line and it's just not a pass rusher etc and it's not just one bad game..... the trend doesn't lie....lately it's been a lack of preparation / coaching in the post season. I wanted to get your thoughts on this since I'm not seeing a lot of articles expanding on Wes's comments. Here's to next season!
    Posted by LifeTimePat[/QUOTE]

    My take is that Brady played the game afraid to make a mistake. He was tentative, held the ball too long and didn't have the confidence he had shown in previous games to zip the ball into close spaces. Also the interior of the offensive line was overpowered on many plays causing the pocket to collapse and Brady was getting hammered often and could not teup up to avoid the pressure 

    But the real issue to me is still the defense. We need another impact linebacker and DE badly. I think if Brady had more confidence in the defense to stop the opposition he would be willing to take more chances and play  with more confidence in these pressure games. He plays great in the regular season but iunder pressure - Brady is still tenative becasue he knows if he makes a costly mistake....(i.e. turnover) - the defense is still not reliable to make critical stops on a regular basis. 

    To me - defense - defense - defense !!! It still wins in the playoffs.........  
     

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