Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    Interesting argument, I can see both sides but really worry about edelmans health.  I would like to get both younger and faster at the we position but love what welker does for the pats, he has made many many clutch plays and think the way he plays will work well over the next two years, he plays quick not fast and age shouldn't hamper him greatly.  brady seems to know where walker will be which is a huge plus.  Last thing keeping walker does not diminish the need for more of a rushing attack. The more we are able to keep defenses honest the more we win.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    Smoke no fire. Pats in a win win. If Welker leaves we use the money wisely and potentially draft Tavon Wilson to take the slot. If he stays, well we get Wes Welker.....wake me when its over.............zzzzzzzZZZZ




    If they were committed to bring in Tavon Wilson ro replace Welker then I would be totally fine with that.  The kids seems like a legit playmaker and a legit slot receiver.  While I would be a bit concerned about Tavon coming in and being able to have a Welker type impact from game one I would still be more then fine with this.  But the Pats would have to make some moves, Tavon will not be there at the 29th pick.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

    Rust what I think your missing is how many of WW's catches come on 3rd down. He is TB12's security blanket and turns tons of 3rds into 1st and 10. Sorry but I got to say;

    TB12- 1, Rusty -0




    LOL!!  I'm not keeping score but I never thought I would see the day where RidingWithTheKing would admit defeat!

    RidingWithTheKing

    Sounds like Welker and the Pats are close anyway, so you win.


     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to dreighver's comment:

     


    This post is absurd.

     

     



     

    Instead of posting one liners, why don't you back up your claim.  Please tell me why that is so absurd!!!

     




    I already told you why. You're diminishing Edelman's great value (really good punt returner, back up player in multiple slots, one of which a 3rd QB which saves a roster spot) and his pretty good WR play when on the field, to try to overly-prop up Welker's.

     

     

     




    So are you saying you post under the screen nname dreighver too?  Better be a bit more careful, your mixing up the screen names you post under.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:


    Here we go. Can't get separation.  Not a good punt returner? Are you insane? He's one fo the best punt returners in the AFC.You have no idea what you're talking about here.  Is your man love for Brady and Welker that over the top? Jesus, dude.

     

    First of call, Edelman barely sees the field as a STs back up player.  When he's started, he absolutely gets separation. Explosive first step and solid route runner.

    We've seen him plenty of times abuse DBs.   His catch on the sideline in Baltimore in Week 3 while being pulled down (he was called for PI in that bagjob game), was great.

    He's not supposed to start over Gronk, Hernandez, Welker or Lloyd for that matter, so when is he supposed to get his chances?  He's not. 

    Fans like you are pretty annoying. Only appreciate the star players and act like th others stink.  So childish.

     


    I just explained in another post that it doesnt matter who the player is, I will argue in favor of any player who gives this team the best chance to win a SB as long as the deal makes sense.  A few years ago it was Moss, this year it just happens to be Welker. 

     

    I have also mentioned that I would like to see Welker sign around the $8-$9 mill range, so it's not like I am wanting Welker to hold the Patriots hostage and break the vault that Mr. Kraft carries around in his back pocket.  $8-$9 mill per year is probably still a tad under paid for what Welkers numbers and importance to the Pats offense is, but at this stage of his career and needing more players to stay within the cap, I think this is a fair price for both sides.

    Also, I have mentioned in many threads that I would be more then open to the Pats letting Welker go if they could get Tavon Austin to take his spot. 

    SO... call it Welker love or whatever, it doesn't bother me.  I want what I see gives this team the best chance to win the SB and right now signing Welker is it!

    Now, on to Edelman, he is behind Welker for a reason.  They tried to push Edelman into that role and he got hurt.  The guy can't stay on the field and the flat out truth is Edelman can not do or have the impact in this offense that Welker can and has proven to do year after year.  I don't see any teams picking up Edelman as a starting slot receiver should he be let go by the Pats.  There is a reason for that... because he isn't at that level.  Heck, I like the kid, he has a huge heart and willing to play anywhere he can to help the team and to get playing time.  Gotta like players like that.  But to think he can have much of an impact is just plain ignorant!!

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    I just want BB to NOT cave into this 9-10 mil per year number.   It would be a huge blow to this team getting some key FAs in here to help the team.

    He overpaid Mankins and you can see what has happened there.  

    This is the problem when it comes time to pay people. It's true Brady makes Welker more than Welker makes Brady, but it's really BB who creates the canvas for this to even happen.

    I just don't want the formula uprooted for ONE player possibly dashing SB chances down the line.

    We have morons on here talking about how the cap is irrelevant, etc, and this is exactly why it is relevant. You overpay a guy like Welker now, and it could be the one thing that ruins a SB run in 2013 or 2014.

    Dude, Brady will be 36 in 2013. 37 in 2014.

    Welker didn't make a difference in SB 42 or SB 46.  He could have, but he didn't. It's hard to ignore.

    If he's paid more with his presence scaled back a tad in this offense to help the TEAM in the postseason, WE best win a SB in the next 2 years. The pressure to win next year and in 2014 for Brady and Welker will be enormous. They haven't handled it well in the last 2 SBs.

     

     



    Very good post and I agree with a lot you wrote here.  Again, I have mentioned many times I dont want to see Welker get more then $8-$9 mill per year, certainly not $10. There is argument that he probably deserves $10 mill + based on what some of these receivers are getting now.  But I don't want to see the Pats pay that money due to obvious reasons that you also mentioned in your post.

    The thing is, the Pats should be taking advantage of TFB and WW talent right now, they will have a hard time replacing that talent now or years to come so why not go all in right now! They have to.. They are so close year after year.  A little tweak here and there and they are SB Champs. 

    As for Wlker not making a difference in SB, again I gotta say I blame key injuries and game planning on this.  Not Welker.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

     

    Smoke no fire. Pats in a win win. If Welker leaves we use the money wisely and potentially draft Tavon Wilson to take the slot. If he stays, well we get Wes Welker.....wake me when its over.............zzzzzzzZZZZ

     




    If they were committed to bring in Tavon Wilson ro replace Welker then I would be totally fine with that.  The kids seems like a legit playmaker and a legit slot receiver.  While I would be a bit concerned about Tavon coming in and being able to have a Welker type impact from game one I would still be more then fine with this.  But the Pats would have to make some moves, Tavon will not be there at the 29th pick.

     

     




    What? Convert Tavon Wilson from Safety to slot WR?  What on earth?

     




    Hahahaha!  My bad!!  I meant Tavon Austin!! 

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:


    What on earth? Tavon Wilson? He's our 2nd year nickel Safety guy!  Why would he be someone to replace Welker??!!

     

    What have you been smoking??

    Also, your above statement about Kraft having tons of money has nothign to do with market values or the cap. Your statement above proves you don't understand the difference.

     



    Again, my bad.  I meant Tavon Austin, not Tavon Wilson.  Please pardon my error!

    No, it has been pretty known over the years that the Patriots are not willing to open up their wallet and pay what a player is worth.  They use the phrase "come play for us for less money and get a shot at a championship".  Yet that doesn't work anymore.  What big time talent have they got lately who was willing to do this?  Nobody!  Not sure if it is due to more players nowdays wanting the money more then SB's or if it is because the Patriots haven't won a SB in a while.... or both. 

    As far as the difference between staying under the cap and opening up the wallet, well these owners and head coaches are smart!  They know how to shuffle money around to stay under the cap and still get the players they want.  They aren't where they are in this business without knowing how to do this.  We just witnessed this with the TFB contract. 

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:


    That's why I mentioned SB 42, too. No one was injured in that one.   The drop/high throw from Brady in SB 46 also had little to do with injuries.  NE was 6-1 without Gronk this past year and his drop on 3rd and 7, wide open, basically started to trigger the belief for Baltimore players that it was their day.

     

    I just don't want the guy overpaid, which is why I disagree with you completely about the 9 mil per number.  Pay him 11 for all I care in 2015. 



    Again, I really think it has a lot to do with the game planning more then anything.  The Pats scored 14 and 17 points in the two SB losses.  Way, way below their regular season average.  They seem to do that in the big games.  They open up the offense in the regular season and play to win... win big in the regular season but once they are in post season they shut it down and play more conservative and play not to lose.  Out coached and bad game planning has a whole lot more to do with those losses then any one or two players not having an impact due to their game play.  Gronk being hurt in SB 46 was a big deal.  Again, out coached and bad game planning. 

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    The countdown has started!  The Patriots have 7 days to sign Wes Welker before he hits free agency.  This next 7 days will be very telling to see what direction the Patriots are headed this season.  I'm afraid if WW isn't signed by the 12th he will be headed to a new team as I know there is a few teams out there who will pay him what he is looking for.  Denver and 49'ers have been rumored.  Not good for us Pats fans.  I think a multi year deal gets done between $8 and $9 Million per year

    Predictions....

     




    No offense, but I am glad you're not the GM.  I also don't think SF or Denver can pay him what you just laid out either. 9 million per year? He's 32 and not a WR who puts up 10 TDs per year. His value in the red zone is low which hurts his case for that kind fo money.

     

    I also cannot imagine Welker in SFs offense with your buddy Collie running the Pistol either.

     

    Is it his value or the scheme? Also, 118 catches did an awful lot to get the team into the red zone. At that point long targets and running backs are the preferred targets.




     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    It looks a lot closer to keeping him then it has, but who knows?  I like him and hope he gets paid, but the team will do what they want, how they want.  We need a deep threat or even two.  Nice to keep him, but lets get outside guys with size and speed.  And hands.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to Davedsone's comment:

    It looks a lot closer to keeping him then it has, but who knows?  I like him and hope he gets paid, but the team will do what they want, how they want.  We need a deep threat or even two.  Nice to keep him, but lets get outside guys with size and speed.  And hands.



    Didn't we hear that at some point to though? I'm not going to get excited until it's done

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    ummmm has  no one really read this yet>

     

    A source tells CSN New England that the Patriots are closing in on a multi-year contract with free agent Wes Welker.

    The source says the "two sides have come to the understanding that they are far better with one another than without." It's a logical resolution considering the state of the Patriots' receiving corps, Tom Brady's dependence on Welker and the slot machine's questionable fit outside of New England's scheme. Although no national outlets are confirming the report yet, we wouldn't be surprised to see a three-year deal announced prior to next week's free-agency window. It would have been extremely difficult for the Pats to replace Welker's average of 112.0 catches per season over the last six years.
     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    The biggest thing WW has going for him is that he DOES NOT GET INJURED. Yeah he blew out his knee one year and was back at the start of the next year and has been on the field ever since. That is huge for a slot receiver because they get hammered a few times every game. The obvious options to replace Welker if he leaves are Amendola and Edelman - I like both of those players and they are both younger and faster and may have comparably good talent, BUT Edelman has played 22 of a possible 37 games the last two years and Amendola only 12 of 32. All the talent and youth and speed doesn't make up for only playing 50%+/- of the games your team plays.

    And Welker coverts first downs - more than 50% of his post season catches the last two years moved the chains (18 of 35) and 62% of his catches in the regular season the last two years moved the chains (149! of 240!)

    I don't want the Pats giving him a blank check, but 8M/ year is not out of the question. They obviously have some 'fall-back' options that are cheaper, but they also come with bigger performance risk.

     
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    Re: Wes Welker - 7 days and counting!

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:



    Well, it does work. Andre Carter, Waters and Anderson just did it. It didn't work in the end, but they were FA bargains. Expect more players like that to be banging down the door in FA this year and next because of the market off the lockout.


    They were all at the tail end of their careers.  Possibly nobody else wanted them.  Where are they now?  They worked good for the Patriots but they weren't star players.  You think the type of players the Pats need would play for less to get a ring?  Reed just won one, I doubt he will.  Revis isn't going to.  Gholsten isn't going to, he would lower his price to stay with a team he is already on who happens to be right there in the mix of the SB!  So your argument here is pretty lame.

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    Ironically, the reason for not winning SB 46, is because each Brady and Welker didn't deliver in the 4th qtr of that SB.  Sorry, but it's the truth, so it's ironic you are saying things that aren't accurate within this discussion.

    You seem to be ignoring the whole idea that BB's management of the roster from year to year, along with Brady's presence at QB, creates an atmosphere of wanting to play in NE. It's still alive and well. Oh yes, yes it is.

    You just heard Connor Barwin.   Ed Reed just said "who wouldn't want to play for BB" yesterday.

    Brandon Lloyd took a very well priced deal and didn't even speak to any other team last year.

    I get you want to scapegoat him but for under 4 mil per year and 75+ balls, maybe 6 TDs in 2013, that's great value in this offense.

    The market will fall to the Pats these next 2 years.  You'll see. This flat cap is playing against some FAs right now, including Welker.  If a big time FA wanted to cash in recently, it would have had to have been by a crappy organization and the FA seeking money only off the lockout (2011 or pre 2012 season).

    I have no doubt in my mind if there was cap Kraft would simply just hand Welker the extra 5 million he'd be looking for over the life of a 3 year deal, but the cap creates problems.

    I am a Pats fan first and foremost, not just fans of the stars on this team.  I side with Kraft and BB who know that not one specific player should be supersede the main goal, which is a SB title.

    PS Tavon Austin would be a waste as a top rd pick to deal wih the slot position with Hernandez and Edelman/Ebert here.

     

    Barwin and everyone else can say that but until they sign on the dotted line then it doesn't mean anything.  What do you want them to say.. I will play only if they pay me?  Heck no, no player is going to steer away from any team.  They want to see what a team, any team will offer.  Will he play for a little less to Play for the Patriots then a little more to play for the Jags, browns, Raiders, Jets.. probably so.  But that isn't saying much.  Again, sign on the dotted line and prove you want to play for less to win a ring.  It's hasn't happened in a long time.  Certainly with any big time players.


    If you are a Pats fan first and foremost then I assume you want them to win a SB.  Whats it going to be...  A fan of BB and Kraft not wanting to pay Welker a fair deal to remain on the team and try and get to the SB with an Edelman or Amendola or are you a Pats fan wanting a SB win?  I want a SB win. 

     
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