What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

     3 would be the minimum. 4 or 5 wides is more like it. We don't need the spread offense anymore. We've got two great TEs now who can either go out or stay home and run block. We've got a running game. Unless it's 3rd and long Brady can go under center now and give the opponent's D no clue as to whether or not we're passing or running.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    Seems this discussion has turned into more about what the Pats have and not have versus what other teams would give the Pats the greatest challenge to reach the SB!!
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, and they ran the ball and committed to it, which in turn shows us why our D is improved. Get it yet?  Of course you don't. Even though it's now a proven fact, you can't admit it either. You need all 3 of Zbellino, Mt Hurtl (two who have yet to admit they are wrong on the McDaniels Base Spread failing against good defenses) and everyone's favorite diplomat, Killa, to agree to get rid of you? How about you pick more reasonable people to do it? Killa loves trolls. So, he won't vote you off.    You shouldn't be assembling a jury for yourself anyway.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    You asked me who I respected. I gave you three names.

    Can you post one fargin' thing that isn't dripping with your spin?

    You haven't proven anything about the spread delusional one.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]I'm not agreeing with you either Russ.  You are arguing "This team is great, but O'Brien sucks."  Z is arguing, "This offense is great, but the defense sucks. or used to suck."  I am saying the whole team is and has been great.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]


    When did I ever say they suck?

    I have said they have been mediocre. 

    If everything on the team were great, they would have won the superbowl the last two years ... or at least a playoff game no?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]Lots of talk here about the "fear" many have with regards to the Baltimore Ravens.  Yes, they have a really good D, but, has anyone noticed the offenses they defended to get there?  This team played PIT, TEN, StL, NYJ and HOU.  Which of these offenses were really a TRUE test for this defense?  Let's see how they do against the Green Bay's, Patriots and Saints of the world before we crown their defense like many are doing.  It is easy to haul off on an offense that is literally sputtering along.  Look what Tennessee did to this defense...  St. Louis is playing absolutely horrible and the Jets, well, they are really bad, too.  Houston was hobbled with injuries missing key starters.  Add to this the fact their remaining schedule is not exactly a road with high powered offenses they need to face.  It is easy to get confident against cup cake offenses, as it is easy for an offense to salivate when it plays a cup cake defense.
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    I agree with what your saying here AGC, but what scares me is that it is a copy cat league, and right now everybody and there mom sees that the best chance against the Pats is to rush 3 sometimes 4 and drop 8 or 7 into short-med-deep zone. Baltimore can be as effective as Dallas was in this regard....if not better as imo they have a better front 4.

    This defense is typically countered by pounding the 3-4 D-line guys with the run game, I watched the game again and there were times that our 0-line pushed the Dallas d-line back 5 yards...where we could have drove a truck without being touched. Only because they didn't have the personnel to stop the run.

    I am not trying to sound like I am smart here, obviously BB knows what he's doing but I really think that 07 is having a lingering affect on this offense.

    If the Dallas game were played with the exact same personnel but a decade earlier, I think we would have run the ball 35 times and thrown maybe 22, and wouldn't have needed an epic (only chance) 8 for 9 passing drive by Brady to win. Yes I know Brady is better now then he was then but it doesn't mean we have to force a passing game against 7 D-backs....We hardly ever take what a defense gives us and it was our specialty in the SB years.

    Imo the only team that can beat the Pats are themselves, we are more talented then any team in the league top to bottom. I just hope we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by reverting back to playing one dimensional football, as we have done in each of the past 3 playoff games.

     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : You really like to twist the facts.  New England held 7 teams below 20 points last year.  And of the "28" points scored by the Jets in January, 7 came off of great field position set up by a botched fake punt, and another 7 came off of great field position following a failed onside kick on a broken play where New England was just trying to stuff the run to keep the Jets from running out the clock.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    But all 28 were scored. Heck ... if only two of those are FGs  ... New England wins that game. 

    The Jets' offense is pathetic. They shouldn't even score 14 on a good defense. Tell me more about Mark Sanchez and Ladanian Tomlinson? 

    Sure NE held a few teams beneath 20. The Dolphins twice, the Vikings, the Bills, the Jets once, and the Bears. That is exactly what I said, none of those offenses were even close to being a good offense last season. 

    They also gave up a boatload of points to some offenses with backup QBs, and rookie starters. 

    They weren't 'great.' Not at all. You can spin it if you want to Mighty, but I won't get hypnotized by the round-n-round motion. 

    The defensive performance against Dallas was the best this team has delivered in a couple seasons. They haven't bottled an offense that good in that way in a while.

    Finally, if the defense was so great, why did BB fire five starters and replace them? Why did he completely change his defensive scheme? That is almost a 50% turnover. 

    He did it because he thought it was great?

     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]I don't know how a 2WR set is considered a spread offense. Even a 3 WR set is not considered spread.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]


    Cmon Shenn, if its 2 wr's AND Hern, Gronk and Wood or BJGE out wide that is a spread....Doesn't matter the personnel used it matters where they are line up. We saw quite a few "empty backfields" against the Boys and it didn't work.

    For the record I think the spread should still be used but not nearly as much as it has been for the past 4 seasons.

    2 great TE's scream to have the Qb under center and a power run threat in the game. Hello Play Action... With the old eye test I have seen this set be successful over and over again for the past 15-16 games( since we dumped Moss)
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    The Ravens.....yes, the Pats can be their own worst enemy at times but that Ravens D and their ground game are tough...Ray Rice is the real deal...I'm not loosing sleep at night over the QB'ing ability of Joe Flaco.

    SD?...not if they have to come here for a playoff game...LOL...nope, too cold in January for the So.Cal. boys...but at least they won't have to deal with the prospect of LT choking!
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : I thought the same thing about last year's defense. But so much has changed, and NE really overhauled the "D". Giving up 28 to a terrible offense like the Jets ... add five or six new faces, take the dead weight out, they squelched the Cowpokes vaunted offense to the tune of 16.  When was the last time this team held a top flight offense beneath 20? Heck, the examples of them holding bad offenses betneath 20 the last few seasons are few and far between.  If these guys can play healthy and inspired the way they did against Dallas, then I think they certainly have the team to beat. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Considering there were only 9 teams in the league that allowed less then 20 ppg last year and we were one of them, I would say our defense was doing something right. Last I checked ppg is what dictated a win or a loss and not yards allowed.

    And to say the Jets were a terrible offense in the playoffs is incorrect...they made it to back to back afc championship games and Sanchez played pretty well (somehow)... However the best offense in the league(ours) only scored 3 points in the 1st half at home! That was the real problem in that game not a young defense.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]You bypassed what I said and then said "BB is in charge" type of thing. It's annoying. You do it all the time.  Look in the mirror. Don't get all preachy a sa "coach" yourself, when you completely misread what I wrote. O'Brien calls the plays. Not BB.  TrueChamp also called you out on this. You did this last and blamed it on you working and not reading properly, so am I assuming you just did that again.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Nobody has said O'Brien doesn't call the plays for the most part. What is obvious is that your spin that O'Brien calls far too many passes and BB just can't stop him because he calls the plays is ridiculous.

    If BB thought we ran too much he would change it. Period.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : Considering there were only 9 teams in the league that allowed less then 20 ppg last year and we were one of them, I would say our defense was doing something right. Last I checked ppg is what dictated a win or a loss and not yards allowed. And to say the Jets were a terrible offense in the playoffs is incorrect...they made it to back to back afc championship games and Sanchez played pretty well (somehow)... However the best offense in the league(ours) only scored 3 points in the 1st half at home! That was the real problem in that game not a young defense.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Another 11 teams were within about 2 points of the 2010 Pats total D. They were top 10 by a quite small margin.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    ^ Sooooooo, they were not a top 10 ppg allowed defense because other teams were within whatever points of them? I'm not understanding your point.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]^ Sooooooo, they were not a top 10 ppg allowed defense because other teams were within whatever points of them? I'm not understanding your point.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Point is, a lot of teams were bunched up very closely in ppg allowed last year. Saying they were "top ten" sounds great, but when you realize they were only about 2.2 points better than the 18th team it isn't really so impressive. The next 6 teams were barely one point worse than the Pats.

    The 2010 team, like this one saved some points with turnovers. Problem with that is if you get to the playoffs and the turnovers dry up you're screwed with a D that gives up tons of yards and therefore too many scores.

    This is why ppg is not the only measure considered in analysis of a D. You look at all the stats to get the true picture.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : When did I ever say they suck? I have said they have been mediocre.  If everything on the team were great, they would have won the superbowl the last two years ... or at least a playoff game no?
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Ok fair enough.  My bad.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone to leave the board. I believe what makes this board interesting is the diverse opinions coming from different posters. Unfortunately when peoples egos get in the way it becomes some kind of pisssin contest. I've read great posts from both you and King and other posts I do not agree with-that being said,I don't see any posters making money and on the Pats payroll----it's just fun to be able to discuss the Pats with true fans. I hope you both stay on this forum-I enjoy your opinions. In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : Seems about 6% of the people here sided with you on your idiotic spin that the O was a bigger problem than the D. You mean you and your handful of clueless cohorts would rather not enjoy my insights? Tell you what I'll do. If a few of the posters I actually have respect for say I should depart, I will.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl : He did!  He traded Moss last year and then after Buffalo's debacle we ran it a lot 2 weeks in a row. Maybe if Brady isn't busy tossing INTs or going 3 and out, we see more of a chance to establish the run early in games? Hmm?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]



    More of your nonsense. We actually averaged more pass attempts per game after Moss left than in the 4 games he was with the team last year.


    You make about as much sense as you always do. You point to the 2nd rated passer in the league as a problem. You are hilarious.

    I'm growing weary of exposing you. But I'll keep it up as a public service.


     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]More pass attempts due to controlling the ball more, sustaining drives and less INTs from Brady. FACT: NE's TOP went UP after Moss was dealt. Anything else I need to embarrass you with today, Babe?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    FACT: The first 4 games of 2010 the Pats averaged almost exactly the same number of rushes per game as they did for the whole season.

    You are exposed again as being FOS. This is like taking candy from a baby.
     
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    Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl

    In Response to Re: What AFC team is most likely to keep the Patriots from the super bowl:
    [QUOTE]The discussion was never about running the ball in garbage time or blow outs of bad Ds, Corky.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    The Pats actually averaged slightly less rush attempts in the first half of games after Moss left.  I just went through the drive logs of all the games.
     

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