What are we doing?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Again Rusty, I'm waiting to see what is going to happen I just wish they didn't wait until the last minute to sign their own FA's they want. I'm fine with letting the market balance itself out but on the same note I do feel sometimes they target players and wait to long. It's a gamble either way but their FA tactics over the last 5yrs haven't produced the best FA results so I do think they need to adjust their strategy a little. This weekend should be more telling but don't be shocked if by Friday you hear they signed 6 more of their min value FA's during this time period
    Posted by PatsEng


    Waiting to the last minute to announce or leak out that they re-upped a cheap Koukavides? Why are you so obsessed with this signing? 

    The FA signings or trades for players were very good in 2010 and 2011.  I think there was some discord with Dimitroff leaving in 2008 and Pioli in 2009 which probably affected the process a bit.

    What is with the drama?  No one really had a better FA/draft period the last two years than BB.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to  Re: What are we doing? : Could you please specifically reference where I lobbied for, "...wild spending, knee jerk moves and support of Mazz, Gasper and Felger." Thanks.
    Posted by vertigho

    Posting a whiny thread ONE HOUR after free agency starts qualifies as lobbying for knee jerk moves.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

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    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Posting a whiny thread ONE HOUR after free agency starts qualifies as lobbying for knee jerk moves.
    Posted by MattC05


    Exactly. Thank you. Vertigo should be belligerent with Null not me.  It's far more annoying to see a thread like this with a teenage outlook than Muzz's or my responses.

    Damn, I feel like I am on some other planet here on this board.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : So then Lloyd will go somewhere else. The Pats will move on to Plan B. By the way, we're all just assuming they want Lloyd, when we really have no idea whatsoever.  It simply never makes sense to overpay. Lloyd was never going to sign a Pat-friendly deal just to play for McDaniels. He'd sign a market deal sure, but unless the Pats came out and blew him away with an offer, they were never going to sign him this quick. So he'll wait and see what his market is. It's a gamble for him too. What if nobody knocks on his door?  Washington blew away Garcon. Would you be happy if the Pats did that with Lloyd? I wouldn't. Very few guys have signed so far, and those that have got stupid money. So what it comes down to for me anyway, is do you want to win March 13 or do you want to have a team that can win 12 games +. I like their approach, it's cold, calculating and proven.
    Posted by Muzwell

    Also look at their FA's over the last 5 years Muz. They haven't been great. Carter and Anderson being the best of the bunch. The draft is how they've been able to maintain a winning team. If their FA's generally haven't worked out with this approach then occasion yes you do have to spend a little more to fill a hole with a better overall player. That doesn't mean you need to spend at all cost, but if the difference between getting a #1/2 WR is spending $1-2mil extra/yr more then you originally wanted to or waiting and getting a #3 WR that you plan on using as a #1/2 WR and saving cash, given Brady's window maybe spending the little extra up front is better then holding out for value at times

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

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    In Response to What are we doing?:
    Seems like other teams hit the road running...visits lined up...players already signed...and we hear crickets in Patriotsville...not saying we have to be rash...but it would be exciting for a change to have some things lined up...instead of bargain hunting all the time...Bradys clock is on the short side...our window is closing...just want to see one more ring!
    Posted by null


         No need to panic. The Patriots are doing what they always do...wait things out, and get bargains late on the non-star free agents. By doing this, they strengthen the middle range of their roster.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : So then Lloyd will go somewhere else. The Pats will move on to Plan B. By the way, we're all just assuming they want Lloyd, when we really have no idea whatsoever.  It simply never makes sense to overpay. Lloyd was never going to sign a Pat-friendly deal just to play for McDaniels. He'd sign a market deal sure, but unless the Pats came out and blew him away with an offer, they were never going to sign him this quick. So he'll wait and see what his market is. It's a gamble for him too. What if nobody knocks on his door?  Washington blew away Garcon. Would you be happy if the Pats did that with Lloyd? I wouldn't. Very few guys have signed so far, and those that have got stupid money. So what it comes down to for me anyway, is do you want to win March 13 or do you want to have a team that can win 12 games +. I like their approach, it's cold, calculating and proven.
    Posted by Muzwell


    Exactly. I would rather have success year after year than to put all of the eggs in one basket only to trip and have those eggs smashed. The Pats have plans B, C and D covered, while other teams are still trying to impress the fans with a flashy signing.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    PatsEng, Crumpler and Brian Waters were OUTSTANDING with what they did along with Carter and Anderson.

    Also, many FA signings, mostly rookie FAs who helped have been good. Arrington, Love, and now Moore this past year.  Sure, not top notch, high priced guys but clear fits.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Waiting to the last minute to announce or leak out that they re-upped a cheap Koukavides? Why are you so obsessed with this signing?  The FA signings or trades for players were very good in 2010 and 2011.  I think there was some discord with Dimitroff leaving in 2008 and Pioli in 2009 which probably affected the process a bit. What is with the drama?  No one really had a better FA/draft period the last two years than BB.
    Posted by BassFishing

    Very good like who?

    The only one's that come to mind are Carter, Crump, Waters, and Anderson. But, they also had misses like Ocho, Haynesworth, Ellis, numerous S's, Burgess.

    The Pats just generally aren't very good at FA analysis which is odd considering how good they were at the begining of the 00's

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Exactly. I would rather have success year after year than to put all of the eggs in one basket only to trip and have those eggs smashed. The Pats have plans B, C and D covered, while other teams are still trying to impress the fans with a flashy signing.
    Posted by BostonSportsFan111


    Exactly.  It appears the mature, knowledgable fans are well aware of this sustainable approach and understand it, while the more teenage/knee jerk kids like the trendy element of what other failed organizations do.

    WHy on earth would I like what the Skins and Jets do?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    PatsEng, Crumpler and Brian Waters were OUTSTANDING with what they did along with Carter and Anderson. Also, many FA signings, mostly rookie FAs who helped have been good. Arrington, Love, and now Moore this past year.  Sure, not top notch, high priced guys but clear fits.
    Posted by BassFishing

    I put UDFA's in the draft class not FA class as I said they maintained winning through the draft in recent years not through FA

    And like I said you don't need big names but you don't think some of the players mentioned last year who signed mid-tier contracts could of helped this year? Ala Lawson, Roth, Golston
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Posting a whiny thread ONE HOUR after free agency starts qualifies as lobbying for knee jerk moves.
    Posted by MattC05


    I didn't post this thread.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    I know you like Wallace for 31 but what about Floyd and 31 over Wallace?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Burgess was 2009. Pioli left in 2009. I just said that. No one is complimenting his 2008 and 2009 FA moves.  Looking back, it's pretty clear losing the structure with Dimitroff as lead scout and Pioli in the Caserio role, hurt. I don't know why you continue to hammer what could not be controlled, especially after 2 great back to back seasons with Caserio/Reese in tow. Ellis was overpaid, but it was still a good thign they had the money for an experienced body in there, especially with Carter going down.  Carter and Anderson's play cancel out the overpayment on Ellis.  That's really a good thing, not a bad thing.  Even being able to add Gerard Warren in the season proves his money management. Also, Ochocinco is fine.  Overpaid as well, but he can't be blamed for Brady obsessivley targeting just 3 targets over and over with him standing there wide open.  Branch is clearly ahead of Ochocinco in this system as well.  So, Ochocinco is a #5 target and overpaid. I have no issue blaming them for overpaying Ochocinco and I hope he restructures so it's more in line with a #4 or #5 pricepoint. Finally, Haynesworth is a known malcontent and was traded for, not cquired in FA. We all knew the score with him. The leverage BB had was ABSOLUTELY worth the risk loaded in the 2012 draft, giving up the 5th rounder and taking a flier on him.  Again, he wouldn't have been able to work all these angles if he mismanged the roster coming out of the lockout. Jesus Christ, dude.  They had to lockdown 5 All Pro players with new contracts, worry about a lockout and they play in a SB with Brady and Welker not playing well in the end and this is a problem with BB's FA signings?
    Posted by BassFishing

    I do think their cap management is very good but you just highlighted what I'm talking about. Every year during the pre-season and cut downs they tend to overpay for vets like Ellis on 1 year deals all the time. They prefer to overpay for a one year contract then to use the same money on a younger player earlier in the FA process. It's almost like they have a set amount of money per position offer it to a guy and if he asks for a little more they turn away and give the same money over a one year deal to retreads. Looking at some of the contracts for players that people recommended and had decent to good seasons last year they were similar to Ellis's. Of course looking at 10' and 11' is not the best way to judge their FA acquisitions considering one year was uncapped and the other had no off-season

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    I wish you guys woould make up your minds. Listening to you would make me believe the Pats just suffered through a 1-15 season. I mean,one minute it's "BB can't draft"  then it's "BB can't sign FA's." Personally I think he does both well and certainly does it better than anyone on this message board could do it. That being the case lets just sit back and watch the magic that is BB and the Pats!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    We have already re-signed Niko Koutovides and placed the Exclusive rights tag on Kyle Love as well as tendering Hoyer at the 2nd round pick level,and are in talks to bring back Slater! Cripes sakes BB can only make so many moves in one day! The other wanna be Patriots will still be there when he gets done dealing with his own FA's. Oh by the way Wallace can stay in Pittsburgh and I won't be losing any sleep over his decision,I would rather have Lloyd or Jaffney as an option than waste money and a pick to acquire a guy who would eat up a large part of the cap.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    Both the notion that "NE Absolutely NEVER plays the offseason free agent market loudly, or quickly, or richly, because it's altogether only for foolish and impulsive NFL Clubs" AND the notion that says, "AL-ready the 1st hour of free agency has gone by, and NE is doin' NOTHIN'...and so they'll inevitably fall just short of Lombardi dreams next season," Are equally faulty in their respective beliefs...

    NE has had 2 VERY Big Free Agent Offseasons that I know as a fact, had most NFL Analysts proclaiming that The Pats were one of the biggest, If not THE biggest in acquiring New & pretty big-named (at the time) & Numbered NFL Veteran cogs at those times.  One could even make an argument of counting the very earliest of The Belichick Seasons in his tenure here (1999-2001/2 range, with the sheer number of castoff-cap vet pieces, A great majority of whom were Above-average in skill, yet down to a single one, Non-Elite)...

    Simply workin' off the past 8 years though (or just over- beginning at maybe 2005-06/2006-07, upwards to now: 2012-13)...?  2 years where NE was regarded as THE largest FA Market Players in that given off-year:  2007/08 and last year, 2011/12.  2007/08- Really, crazy year- Moss, Welker, Gafney, Stallworth, Kyle Brady, Adalius Thomas...just right off the top of my head, without checkin' the handful of others whom I'm sure to have missed.  2011/12- Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Ellis, Anderson, (+ what's-his-name? Uggh, brain hemmorage...the "other Mark Anderson" whom actually played run D and pass-rush D, but who tore 12 ACLs right before the playoffs...sheez), Brian Waters- Once more, Such a big FA period that I'm ommitting the remainder signings that year (not mention that these were 2 huge offseasons in terms of securing our OWN FAs during these 2 offseasons).


    And We know unconditionally, that many of these guys never panned out in the long run...  We however, might also wanna at least subtley note, that it was strangely "coincidental" that NE made it to the Superbowl in the Only 2 Seasons they made decent sized ripples in the free agent pond (as opposed to the other years...when signing someone like Kyle Love to an extension <cough-for theoretical instance /> WAS the largest of the very few moves that NE actually attempted to make).  Just sayin'...  Blindly feastin' might be a bit impulsive and detrimental in the long run...but fanatical starvation usually ain't the healthiest answer to your hungry woes in certain team areas.      
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

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    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    Both the notion that "NE Absolutely NEVER plays the offseason free agent market loudly, or quickly, or richly, because it's altogether only for foolish and impulsive NFL Clubs" AND the notion that says, "AL-ready the 1st hour of free agency has gone by, and NE is doin' NOTHIN'...and so they'll inevitably fall just short of Lombardi dreams next season," Are equally faulty in their respective beliefs... NE has had 2 VERY Big Free Agent Offseasons that I know as a fact, had most NFL Analysts proclaiming that The Pats were one of the biggest, If not THE biggest in acquiring New & pretty big-named (at the time) & Numbered NFL Veteran cogs at those times.  One could even make an argument of counting the very earliest of The Belichick Seasons in his tenure here (1999-2001/2 range, with the sheer number of castoff-cap vet pieces, A great majority of whom were Above-average in skill, yet down to a single one, Non-Elite)... Simply workin' off the past 8 years though (or just over- beginning at maybe 2005-06/2006-07, upwards to now: 2012-13)...?  2 years where NE was regarded as THE largest FA Market Players in that given off-year:  2007/08 and last year, 2011/12.  2007/08- Really, crazy year- Moss, Welker, Gafney, Stallworth, Kyle Brady, Adalius Thomas...just right off the top of my head, without checkin' the handful of others whom I'm sure to have missed.  2011/12- Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Ellis, Anderson, (+ what's-his-name? Uggh, brain hemmorage...the "other Mark Anderson" whom actually played run D and pass-rush D, but who tore 12 ACLs right before the playoffs...sheez), Brian Waters- Once more, Such a big FA period that I'm ommitting the remainder signings that year (not mention that these were 2 huge offseasons in terms of securing our OWN FAs during these 2 offseasons). And We know unconditionally, that many of these guys never panned out in the long run...  We however, might also wanna at least subtley note, that it was strangely "coincidental" that NE made it to the Superbowl in the Only 2 Seasons they made decent sized ripples in the free agent pond (as opposed to the other years...when signing someone like Kyle Love to an extension <cough-for theoretical instance /> WAS the largest of the very few moves that NE actually attempted to make).  Just sayin'...  Blindly feastin' might be a bit impulsive and detrimental in the long run...but fanatical starvation usually ain't the healthiest answer to your hungry woes in certain team areas.      
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

    This. Laz said it a lot clearer then I have (which is sad on my part because of Laz's cryptic nature).

    They don't need to make big splashes in FA but when they have been more aggressive in FA they have performed well in those seasons. When they were more passive with FA they didn't have bad seasons but not up to their standards

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    Laz, I think the Adalius Thomas signing is one of the main reason BB does not play on day one of free agency any more. This is when most of the serious financial mistakes are made. Andre Carter is the other guy you were trying to think of from last year. Not to nitpick, but Welker and Moss were trades, not free agent signings, but the Pats were major players that offseason...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    I need to go out and buy a life jacket!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reloadedagent31. Show Reloadedagent31's posts

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    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    I wish you guys woould make up your minds. Listening to you would make me believe the Pats just suffered through a 1-15 season. I mean,one minute it's "BB can't draft"  then it's "BB can't sign FA's." Personally I think he does both well and certainly does it better than anyone on this message board could do it. That being the case lets just sit back and watch the magic that is BB and the Pats!
    Posted by rtuinila


    To put things in perspective: Since 2001, New England is 5-1 in the AFC Championship and 3-2 in the Superbowl. Nevermind, the Patriots aren't getting it done like before. At least they are progressing much faster than their AFC counterparts so they're doing something right. They're always in the playoff hunt coming off a 13 win season. In addition, they came within a Hail Mary pass of winning Superbowl XLVII. A big name free agent could help by all means, but I'm certain if the Patriots don't make any moves within the first 24 hours they will not be fighting for a top 10 spot in the 2013 draft. We're not behind closed doors. New England probably has deals on their last stages of finalization. In all honesty, the first domino has to be Peyton Manning. As soon as he falls, the rest of the dominoes will fall. Let's let the teams overspend and wait a few days after he chooses a team to see who's available to spend.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : Please. How many Capitalist Avenger threads do we need here?  Muzwell wrote exactly what I was thinking when I read another pointless, selfish/look at me type thread. If he hadn't have said that, I or someone else would have. It took an hour for someone to be a drama queen when we know NE isn't going to make a big splash. 1. They aren't that far under the cap. 2. Many other teams are and can spike the market trying to get up the cap floor by 2014. Get it? NE doesn't have a ton of leverage in terms of competing financially, regardless of what morons like Mazz write, so picking your spots are vital in this case. Do you have any idea how jealous some of these teams are that we have two 1st and two 2nd rounders and about 10 million to play with?  We may not be 50 million and under TB, but for a perennial playoff team that is about to become a juggernaut, it's pretty dran good. I don't need the next trendy name on a jersey to prove to me that BB knows what he's doing. Grow up, kids. Read a book, get a grasp on this great, sustainable approach that BB uses and wake up. 
    Posted by BassFishing


    Great post and well said. Notice how the teams that are spending huge money on big name players are teams like the Skins, Bucs, & Bears? Notice a trend here? These teams are rarely a Super Bowl contender! Smart franchises like NE, GB, Pitt (yeah, that hurt...) rarely spend huge money on over-rated FAs. It usually isn't good buisness. Be glad you root for a smart franchise who is wise enough to build the core of thier team through the draft and shy away from "fool's gold" big-name FAs.  Good players will still be available to sign for a fraction of the price this weekend. Go Pats!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    Hate to say it but Laz is right.  It isn't our style to jump in and make a big splash day 1.  But before it's over we will do something that will be a surprise.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    In Response to Re: What are we doing?:
    In Response to Re: What are we doing? : This. Laz said it a lot clearer then I have (which is sad on my part because of Laz's cryptic nature). They don't need to make big splashes in FA but when they have been more aggressive in FA they have performed well in those seasons. When they were more passive with FA they didn't have bad seasons but not up to their standards
    Posted by PatsEng


    PatsEng...I know you know--  I will be the very first to fully back this sentiment. 8^)

    Hey, didn't wanna start a new thread just to ask...Ya ever get that Bengal?  Or the woman's allergies the deciding factor in the long run?  Tellin'ya...just no cat even remotely like them in mindset:  Doglike loyalty and pure beastness- Greets me at the door, Doesn't really give 2 sh#ts about personal hygiene (when it finally begs the question, she'd rather apparently just place her 2 front legs in her water fountain thingey, and create her own tidal wave/waterfall situation all over herself and the floor; Also I caught her with an upturned dish of red pepper flakes she was using as body spray/perfume)...

    Yup, 24 hours a day, I can describe the typical moment exemplified as such:  Maybe Laz spaced out in front of his computer, Bengal on couch...Laz randomly glances over to realize she's been glaring at him, ears propped fully straight up (as always), No feline slit-cat eyes...eyes are total pupils (as usual)- Laz clicks 1 button on keyboard=Bengal eyes follow the entire move, before glancing back up in fully attentive staring scenario; Laz grabs lighter outta his pocket=Bengal eyes follow the entire movements, before again glancing back up in Attentiveness which would rival even the most thorough night of a c0ke bender...  

    ...she's gonna finally make that attempt to eat me 1 day, ya know. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    lol her allergies trump the Bengal unfortunately, Laz. No matter how much I would love to get one there are certain things my GF does that I'm not willing to give up for a Bengal
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What are we doing?

    Every year it's the same thing.  In free agency and the draft, you will NOT be able to predict the Patriots moves.  Ever.  They do what they want, and it's never what anyone else thinks they should do.  All this sturm und drang about something you not only have zero control over, but also about which everyone's prediction track record is near zero percent correct.  This is the Pats, if you want predictable go with the jests. 
     
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