What can we do at Running Back?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : Why would they trade him for a 2nd rounder. He is still on the way up at 24 years old and played great last year with the new weapon at QB. Stewart was picked 13th overall and if we did get him would command a good bit of $$ along with picks.
    Posted by Asher77[/QUOTE]

    panthers just sIgned Mike Tolbert to some scratch! Leads most to believe J-Stew and the last year of his deal is now expendable. locals in Charlotte speculate that the Pats have been interested in Daily show for a while but nothing conclusive.

    I think it is a perfect fit. Even if only a 1 year rental to let Ridley and Vareen mature. We need to win now!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]The Pats will bring in at least 1 or 2 more RBs but I think the answer to the post is: VEREEN. If Ridley can stop fumbling he will be a good player as he showed last year. But the answer is: VEREEN. Woodhead is a nice playmaker to have off your bench. Too bad his is not buikt to take more punishment. But he can make plays. Always nice. But the answer to the thread is: VEREEN Stewart is good. No one wouild complain if he were here. Just like no one would complain if Bush were here. Or if the Rams pick Trent Richardson and we got Jackson. But the answer to the thread is: VEREEN And he won't cost us any additional picks! And he is both quick and fast. And he can catch the ball. And he is tough. And he makes good use of blockers. And he knows the offense now better than if he had not "red shirted" with an injury. I speak of: VEREEN - the answer to the thread's question.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]

    Port, I'm with u on Vereen, but it's hard for me to believe they red shirted him because of an injury, if the injury was such a factor they would have IR'd him (tate/dowling/crable) his rookie year.  He obviously has talent.  I also don't think he didn't make the field because he had more talented/experienced  guys ahead of him, BB never been afraid to switch players mid season if he thought it would be better in the long run.

    I can only think of 2 reasons he wasn't out.  And that's with me believing he is extremly physical talented. 

    He struggled with blitz picked, which is a MUST to play for the pats
    Or (I hate to write this)
    He isn't practicing or learning the Offense hard enough, kinda like what was said about Taylor Price and Kevin Connelly (the qb drafted 3rd RD yrs back) after they were cut.

    Port you got any input.. Or anyone out there heard anything on this topic, would love to hear




     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : panthers just sIgned Mike Tolbert to some scratch! Leads most to believe J-Stew and the last year of his deal is now expendable. locals in Charlotte speculate that the Pats have been interested in Daily show for a while but nothing conclusive. I think it is a perfect fit. Even if only a 1 year rental to let Ridley and Vareen mature. We need to win now!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    haha, Daily Show

    Yeah I think we should trade a 2nd round pick for him

    or see if the Panthers would prefer a 3rd rd pick this year and if we extend him a 2nd rd next year, if we franchise him and enver extend him a 3rd next year (so Brandon Marshall value) and if we let him walk a 4th next year
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : Port, I'm with u on Vereen, but it's hard for me to believe they red shirted him because of an injury, if the injury was such a factor they would have IR'd him (tate/dowling/crable) his rookie year.  He obviously has talent.  I also don't think he didn't make the field because he had more talented/experienced  guys ahead of him, BB never been afraid to switch players mid season if he thought it would be better in the long run. I can only think of 2 reasons he wasn't out.  And that's with me believing he is extremly physical talented.  He struggled with blitz picked, which is a MUST to play for the pats Or (I hate to write this) He isn't practicing or learning the Offense hard enough, kinda like what was said about Taylor Price and Kevin Connelly (the qb drafted 3rd RD yrs back) after they were cut. Port you got any input.. Or anyone out there heard anything on this topic, would love to hear
    Posted by quinzpatsfan[/QUOTE]

    Honestly I am more hopeful than sure about Vereen. I did look at him before we drafted him (scouting reports and some little bit of film) and really liked him. So i was happy we got him. But I think you are right that it was perhaps more than just being injured. He had no off season as a rookie and so, as for all rookies last year but especially on a BB team where O and D are even more cerebral, he started in the hole. The early injury set him back which likely was very significant  due to last year's circumstances. And perhaps he did have too much trouble handling blocking assignments as well.

    All I can say at this point is that:
    (1) on a BB team you can't keep being injured and stay on the team...
    (2) with the off season program he needs to show coming into preseason that he has a good grip on the O
    (3) he needs to not fumble - not that it was a problem but it is a must at all times especially when you are trying to fight for some time on the field to prove yourself
    (4) he has to run smart and aggressively
    (5) but lastly - if he is healthy he has the talent to be this team's feature back. I really like that we have him. But that is no guarantee that he will not become another Moroney. If I had to bet I would say he ends up having a good year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RhodyATL. Show RhodyATL's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    Living in the South now I have seen Richardson alot including 4 times live. He is a beast potential to be every bit as good as AP in Minn. I would love to see Pats move up to get him but got to have right package to get him. He would be a Fixture for years to come barring injury, and he is well rounded catching Ball(excellant hands), Returning kicks and can block. Hoyer, 3ist and 3rd round pick this and next year. He really is that good. Watch some highlight of this guy and watch yards after contact, its incredible.


    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : Ahh. Ok. Well, he;d have to to move up for Richardson. 1. He's the best back. 2. 1st rd picks are now more golden than before due to the rookie cap. Do you not like the Stewart idea?  If you look at the best teams, ones that run it well, look at their RB depth. You have to bank on at least one RB not being 100% come playoff time, so if you they walk from BJGE, they'll need to hit this.  BJGE is better than Michael Bush in this system and no one else is attractive. One guy that could get clipped with Drew Brees's contract situation is Pierre Thomas. I always liked him, BB did enough to almost deal for him in 2010, and with Ingram there, Colston given an increase, and Brees's situation, Mickey Loomis is sitting in a tough spot. BB is pretty good hedging his bets on situations like that where he lets camp cuts fall into his lap.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : Honestly I am more hopeful than sure about Vereen. I did look at him before we drafted him (scouting reports and some little bit of film) and really liked him. So i was happy we got him. But I think you are right that it was perhaps more than just being injured. He had no off season as a rookie and so, as for all rookies last year but especially on a BB team where O and D are even more cerebral, he started in the hole. The early injury set him back which likely was very significant  due to last year's circumstances. And perhaps he did have too much trouble handling blocking assignments as well. All I can say at this point is that: (1) on a BB team you can't keep being injured and stay on the team... (2) with the off season program he needs to show coming into preseason that he has a good grip on the O (3) he needs to not fumble - not that it was a problem but it is a must at all times especially when you are trying to fight for some time on the field to prove yourself (4) he has to run smart and aggressively (5) but lastly - if he is healthy he has the talent to be this team's feature back. I really like that we have him. But that is no guarantee that he will not become another Moroney. If I had to bet I would say he ends up having a good year.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]

    Fair points, I like film on him too.  He reminded me of Marshall Faulk in college film, of course that was utube highlights, I"m way to lazy to go back and watch his games just to get a grip on a player.  Maybe I'll call into WEEI or 985 when one of the former players is on the show and ask if they have a explanation.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In his prime Kvin Faulk was a guy who got 40-60 carries a season (except '00 and '03 when he got 164/178 and years he was injured) and caught 35-50 passes a season.

    If we only have a back like Benny here, who is not significantly different (production wise) than '01-'03 Smith, '05-'06 Dillon, '06-'08 Maroney, etc then I see a need for his rushing attempts to be replaced out of the backfield.

    His reception totals don't really have to be fully replaced b/c we have such a better recieving core than all but one of his years here.

    To me that means Woodhead and Vareen need to be handed the ball 4-5 times a game and given 2-3 dink and dunk passes a game between them as they combine to replace what Faulk meant to this team for over a decade.

    Woodhead has one more year at cheap $, I think Vareen will be on trial to see if he can grasp the complete Kevin role of major backfield receiver and 3rd rusher for the 2013 season when we cut ties with Danny (unless he wants a min contract/reduced role... as a 2nd rd pick we expect Vareen to be a major impact guy) 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    I really like what I saw on tape from Vereen before we drafted him and I have gone back to locate some more. I see him being a big part of the offense.

    I am not too worried about last year and him being held back.

    I see him as a complete back. Not a 3rd down back, Short yardage back, rec back, FB, name any type of back you can...

    All these RB types are all a function of one thing. It is very hard to find a guy that can do them and do them all well and if you do find one, thats it, you have 1 and he gets tired. So you rest him when the short yardage back comes in the game, or the 3rd down back lol.

    In todays NFL we like to keep these RB's fresh and this is a product of the defensive speed and substituting that goes on. If our guy wears down and the defense does not then that is magnified in the 4th Qrt. ( and our guy is then more prone to injury )

    So what you really need is 2 complete backs to substitute for each other and keep both fresh. Then you wont need these specialty backs that actualy sacrifice some element of surprise in the play which is offset by there strenghts.

    We shouldn't need a Woodhead at all if Vereen shows he can be an all down back and we find one more just like him. ( will have to keep him as insurance for injury )

     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    I think asking Vareen to be the feature back is a stretch. Running Backs dont usually get redhsirted, so I would caution that something may be there we dont know. I liked the kids highlights and he has some very good speed, but he only saw action once last year. Ridley saw more time, so it wasnt a rookie thing.


    Remember when we drafted Wilson in the 2nd and Asante in the 4th?  Noone thought after year 1, that Samuel would be the REAL Player , but he was. Wilson fell off the map after Rodney left and was shown the door with no offers. Samuel went on to cash in and continue to lead the league in pics.

    I am not saying Vareen wont be anything, but to expect him to be an every down back???  BB hasnt done that since Dillon and lets just say Vareen has a lot to prove before I put him that category.

    IDeally, next year you have 1.) A # 1 back(preferabbly F.A./rookie stud/or Ridley)
    2.) Ridley as the next man up, change of pace back. 3.) Vareen as 3rd down, pass catching back(we dont just pass on 3rd,,lol) and 4.) Woodhead, Emergency, jack of all trades back who comes in when needed. 5.) Fullback/short yardage back(Polite)

    Thats it. Just add one more name and resign Polite.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]I think asking Vareen to be the feature back is a stretch. Running Backs dont usually get redhsirted, so I would caution that something may be there we dont know. I liked the kids highlights and he has some very good speed, but he only saw action once last year. Ridley saw more time, so it wasnt a rookie thing. Remember when we drafted Wilson in the 2nd and Asante in the 4th?  Noone thought after year 1, that Samuel would be the REAL Player , but he was. Wilson fell off the map after Rodney left and was shown the door with no offers. Samuel went on to cash in and continue to lead the league in pics. I am not saying Vareen wont be anything, but to expect him to be an every down back???  BB hasnt done that since Dillon and lets just say Vareen has a lot to prove before I put him that category. IDeally, next year you have 1.) A # 1 back(preferabbly F.A./rookie stud/or Ridley) 2.) Ridley as the next man up, change of pace back. 3.) Vareen as 3rd down, pass catching back(we dont just pass on 3rd,,lol) and 4.) Woodhead, Emergency, jack of all trades back who comes in when needed. 5.) Fullback/short yardage back(Polite) Thats it. Just add one more name and resign Polite.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    Well I agree with what you said above but I am not as down on Vereen. He is no sure thing but he was injured and set behind then he was also in a more demanding role as far as learning the offense than Ridley. ( BJGE and Woodhead are good backs who contributed to a rather strong offense so no reason to blow up the dynamic mid season, with a full offseason then I am arguing yes, blow it up )

    I see Vereen as our #2 back if we can or can't find a #1. If we do not find a true #1 then I think BJGE comes back ( or we ride Ridley, possibly a trade, Jackson? ) and it is buisness as usual. ( we will fold Vereen in more and by season end will see what we have there )

    My notes on your post :

    IDeally, next year you have 1.) A # 1 back(preferabbly F.A./rookie stud (T.Richardson) /or Ridley) 2.) Ridley ( Vereen ) as the next man up, change of pace back. 3.) Vareen as 3rd down, pass catching back(we dont just pass on 3rd,,lol) and 4.) Woodhead, Emergency, jack of all trades back who comes in when needed. 5.) Fullback/short yardage back(Polite) Thats it. Just add one more name and resign Polite.

    So we carry 5 RB's-  # 1 back(preferabbly F.A.(or trade)) /rookie stud (T.Richardson)), #2 Vereen, #3 Ridley, #4 Woodhead, #5 Polite
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    Asher as far as Richardson being the # 1, We are In COMPLETE agreement there. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

    As far as Vareen, I am not really down on him. I actually think he wil be Brady's binky at some point, but in the passing game, not as a between the tackles, every down back.

    He had a lingering hammy without even playing so who knows how his body would react to 15-20 carries a game in the NFL. If he gives us 5-10 carries a game and 30-40 catches on the year I think that is great for his first "real Year" playing.  Ridley has starter potential, but I think he is better suited as your change of pace guy. His style doesnt translate to a "feature back" IMO
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    Vereen as the #2 back, all I expect from him is what you said. 5-10 carries a game, 30-40 catches max. That is still an important role to have a quality RB in and the 2nd rd was not to high for a guy to fill that slot.

    I don't think he needs be protected like Woodhead, he is not a fragile back who can't line up and hammer it at times. 5-9 205 is decent size. Not everydown, short yardage size but it will keep you honest.

    If he is in a lone back set I don't see the defense just saying, ok pass play it is like they do with Woody or Faulk.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    Agreed. If he can just get a bit stronger, I like him in there every down if we are in "passing Mode' because like you side, he can run equally as well as he catches, so the defense cant key on WHEN he is gonna run.

    His height 5'9" is actually pretty ideal when you consider guys like E.Smith have the rushing record at the same height. B. Sanders was as much of a workhorse as any Back. I just need to see more of him I guess. I want him in there, but lets see what he looks like in preseason.
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

         Whether Benny stays or goes, the Pats will trade for, or draft a RB in the upcoming draft.
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]     Whether Benny stays or goes, the Pats will trade for, or draft a RB in the upcoming draft.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Well Benny is gone so we'll see if we sign a cheap vet or use a draft pic.  Personally I can't see us usually another pick getting a rookie when we Vern Rid already, (high pick that is like RIchardson)  I see us getting a cheap vet/mentor like what Fred Talyor was to tudor youngins and be insurance.
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    bump
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    I think we are all in agreement that another back will be added.

    I just read on the Brady restructures post how an elite RB's salary is not that high positionaly compared to the contracts being handed out to QB, WR, CB ect.. they still are a lowly paid bunch in comparison. I do not have stats to back that but it lends the idea that we have the $ to pay a high profile guy if we so choose. ( the Brady restructure lends some intrigue here )

    I think the the draft pick slots that Vereen and Ridley were chosen in are now irrelevent to the thinking when looking to upgrade.

    Niether has proven to be a teams lead back yet so I would assume we bring in someone who has or a prospect so good that the risk they prove to not be that guy is minimal.

    I still push for Richardson but if not him then I think we will seek a trade for a lead guy who is established.

    On other rookies I have only seen one other I consider worth a shot ( still looking ) and thats Doug Martin. In that case tho he is #3 on our depth chart but does provide us some measure of coverage that between he and last years rooks one will get it done.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    Must have a vet RB! Need the blitz pick up ability and mentor the young guys.
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]Must have a vet RB! Need the blitz pick up ability and mentor the young guys.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    That is certain. BB won't let it go without one, you know that.

    Like I said earlier, he'll probably grab the last man standing for a good price, and try to move forward with Ridley et al. 

    I wouldn't rule out a trade or day one draft selection though. NE is really a great RB away from the most complete offense in the NFL. Unless they are convinced that's Ridley (maybe they are) or that what they've got is "good enough" and want to focus elsewhere, it certainly makes sense. 

    But like I said, come he77 or high water, BB will bring in a vet or two at RB. He can't get enough of them, and the guys they have are still pretty young. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : That is certain. BB won't let it go without one, you know that. Like I said earlier, he'll probably grab the last man standing for a good price, and try to move forward with Ridley et al.  I wouldn't rule out a trade or day one draft selection though. NE is really a great RB away from the most complete offense in the NFL. Unless they are convinced that's Ridley (maybe they are) or that what they've got is "good enough" and want to focus elsewhere, it certainly makes sense.  But like I said, come he77 or high water, BB will bring in a vet or two at RB. He can't get enough of them, and the guys they have are still pretty young. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Still love to see a Corey Dillion type splash. We have the picks and the cap room to make that happen, and I agree with a dominant RB we could see a truly special offense...maybe that is what Kraft was alluding to Laughing
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back? : Agreed. Still love to see a Corey Dillion type splash. We have the picks and the cap room to make that happen, and I agree with a dominant RB we could see a truly special offense...maybe that is what Kraft was alluding to
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Champ, I agree w/u on the Kraft part, but going after a CD type wouldn't that require taking on a salary of a starting RB.  I think the pats let benny go for 2 reasons, the money vs he talent but also and maybe as important they dont want to take on a high salary for 2 or more years for a RB when they have 2 high draft pics waiting to take over.  I think the only way we trade for a RB would be if the player on had one yr left on his contract, so we could let him walk if Ver and Rid played well.  They also probably don't wont to take on to big of a salary for a player that they expect to lose his job to one of above. 

    You agree or no?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    I do agree, thats why I like Jonathen Stewart. I think he makes 1.3 mill or something and is in last year of his deal. Even if we get him for a 3rd rounder on a 1 year rental. It would be less pressure on Ridley and Vareen to have to perform. I also think if we could get a vet who is not performing up to his deal(D-Williams Panthers) or Steven Jackson to come in and re-structure the contract.

     I think paying a proven veteran NFL caliber RB is worth it to this one dimensional offense. Brady is 35 and he needs to throw less not more, and have more outlets(as in RB's who can catch not named Woodhead) I think this is an underrated necessity on this offense particularly due to Brady's age and wear and tear.

    IMO we cannot have enough running backs on this roster. What happens if Ridley goes down for the year in pre season? The need for quality RB depth outweighs the amount of money we may or may not have to pay a proven guy...imo
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]I do agree, thats why I like Jonathen Stewart. I think he makes 1.3 mill or something and is in last year of his deal. Even if we get him for a 3rd rounder on a 1 year rental. It would be less pressure on Ridley and Vareen to have to perform. I also think if we could get a vet who is not performing up to his deal(D-Williams Panthers) or Steven Jackson to come in and re-structure the contract.  I think paying a proven veteran NFL caliber RB is worth it to this one dimensional offense. Brady is 35 and he needs to throw less not more, and have more outlets(as in RB's who can catch not named Woodhead) I think this is an underrated necessity on this offense particularly due to Brady's age and wear and tear. IMO we cannot have enough running backs on this roster. What happens if Ridley goes down for the year in pre season? The need for quality RB depth outweighs the amount of money we may or may not have to pay a proven guy...imo
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Champ...I do agree that the Pats must upgrade at RB. I can't see BB going into next season with Stevan Ridley as his #1 guy.

         As for Johnathan Stewart, unless he can be obtained cheaply, I don't see him coming to the Pats. Though he's been productive when healthy, he's one of those guys that seems to continually get nicked up, and sidelined. He's in the final year of his rookie deal:
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1111333-nfl-rumors-panthers-addition-of-mike-tolbert-makes-jonathan-stewart-expendable#

         But, Stephen Jackson of the Rams might be a Dillon-like pick-up, with the Pats 48th overall pick: http://thepenaltyflagblog.com/rams-richardson-6-steven-jackson-st-louis, and  http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/12/6/2615150/st-louis-rams-trade-steven-jackson.

         Here are Jackson's stats: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5549/steven-jackson. A complication could be that there's no love lost between Rams' head honcho Jeff Fisher, and BB.
     
         Cedric Benson is another possibility...though his twelve (12) fumbles over the past two seasons make this a long shot. Those fumbles likely are the reason why the Bengals were in hot pursuit of BJGE. Perhaps Bennie should send Benson a thankyou card: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8419/cedric-benson, and http://thepenaltyflagblog.com/time-cedric-benson-join-patriots    
     
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    Re: What can we do at Running Back?

    In Response to Re: What can we do at Running Back?:
    [QUOTE]Trade a 2nd rounder for Stewart.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

         Negative! Stewart is in the final year of his rookie deal, and will be an UFA next year. I'd rather see them use one of their second rounders to draft a RB, than use one to make a deal on Stewart. If they do trade for him, the deal must be contingent upon the Pats being able to sign Stewart to a reasonable contract extension.   
     
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