What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    to protect Brady and give Brady/Patriots more time to score points.

    Granted, a shorter field after an INT is always a help.

    Anyone who likes X's and O's got any insight?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    ran the ball, play action off of that, mixed in some great passing and route running/timing throws.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    ran the ball, play action off of that, mixed in some great passing and route running/timing throws.
    Posted by harleyroadking1


    I was more interested in some of the protections schemes that may have changed to deal with the lions pash rush in the first half.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    They kept the TEs in and actually ran the ball. 

    They didn't go with that ridiculous spread obsession over and over and over.  

    Once brady has play action and more protection with teams not knowing if it's a run or pass, the offense can dictate instead of being dictated to.

    They scored a TD before half because they dropped the shotgun./spread.
    See the Bill O'Brien thread for the discussion on this already.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    It was a mix. They came out and ran some, but a lot of that was in the spread after they started to gash with the outside matchups. But a big change was going to spread. They ran 11 plays in the second half in 3 WR to six in the first half. Three of the TDs they scored were from spread.

    My guess is that at the half they saw something in the matchups with the 3 wide set and decided to employ more of it. 

    They ran 12:9 pass/run in the first half, 15:9 in the second, not counting the kneeldowns, and the four run drive from the 7 yard line after McCourty's INT that was done with simply chewing a few minutes in mind.

    All told it was 27:25, but that doesn't tell the story as it counts those kneeldowns and the four clock killing runs two of which were QB sneaks.

    The bulk of the effective play in the second half came in spread formation where they passed very effectively and ran very effectively with draw plays, and one reverse, and one direct snap. 

    The matchup, I can presume they might have seen, was twofold. Keeping the DE's off of Brady required using more draws and screens. So they went with more spread. It also required using slot WRs to beat the blitz with the quick pass, they did this too. The rest was what they have done almost all of this season, which is primary Two-TE set with Crump acting like a sixth OL, which reduces Brady's targets, but gives him some extra protection. 

    The Pats' offense is like a swiss army jackknife, except for the two minute drill, which is still very effective, they can't really line up and do any one thing at will. But they can do a lot of things well, and mixing it up based on matchups, schemes, and situations, seems to be working. 

    For instance, they passed all over Pitt because they liked Brady's chances against the holes in the typical LeBeau zone. He has always handled that well. They passed at first against the Colts, but switched to a more run first offense(with mixed results) in the second half, because they had such a lead. 

    All told, they are dropping 30 spots on good defenses, average defenses, and poor defenses these last few weeks, and doing so with a rough 65-45 pass/run, from a rough 60-40 2TE/3WR mix.

    I don't think next week we will see NE win many outside matchups, so the game plan might look entirely different.

    Gotta like options though.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    They kept the TEs in and actually ran the ball.  
    Posted by BBReigns


    Actually, they ran less plays with Two TE in the second half than they did in the first  half and four of those were on a drive from the 7 yard line goal to go when they were trying to chew clock. What game were you watching?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

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    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? : Actually, they ran less plays with Two TE in the second half than they did in the first  half and four of those were on a drive from the 7 yard line goal to go when they were trying to chew clock. What game were you watching?
    Posted by zbellino


    Zing
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    A couple things as I see it from a standpoint of a long time football official in college ranks. 
    #1. Crumpler/gronk tired out the defensive line and LB's.
    #2. They also schemed more along the line with the RG pulling and the LT kicking out and crossing the TE so the TE blocks the DE and the LT blocks down field with the RG It is a play the Nebraska Cornhuskers invented years ago.
    #3. Also Detroit didn't change anything after the half... BAD MOVE as BB made the adjustments and Lions stood pat and then fell apart a sign of a team needing a stronger hand from the coach.
    Dont get me wrong the Patriots won this game but Detroit didn't put up much competition. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? : Actually, they ran less plays with Two TE in the second half than they did in the first  half and four of those were on a drive from the 7 yard line goal to go when they were trying to chew clock. What game were you watching?
    Posted by zbellino


    They did what now? How many carries did BJGE and Woodhead have and why was it that Brady was sacked and bitchslapped repeatedly in the first half.
     
    You think Crumpler and Gronkowski missed blocks?    Really? 

    Lots of empty bakckfields early in the game.

    No zings here.  Just the same relative fanboys of Bill O'Brien. 

    10 points against Detroit.  The lone TD was set up when he finally used TEs and and especially, ran the football.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    A couple things as I see it from a standpoint of a long time football official in college ranks.  #1. Crumpler/gronk tired out the defensive line and LB's. #2. They also schemed more along the line with the RG pulling and the LT kicking out and crossing the TE so the TE blocks the DE and the LT blocks down field with the RG It is a play the Nebraska Cornhuskers invented years ago. #3. Also Detroit didn't change anything after the half... BAD MOVE as BB made the adjustments and Lions stood pat and then fell apart a sign of a team needing a stronger hand from the coach. Dont get me wrong the Patriots won this game but Detroit didn't put up much competition. 
    Posted by DaBlade



    Thank you. You watched the same game I did.

    Apparently, the 25 yard pass to Gronkwoski and bitchslapping runs by BJGE, one them a TD in the second half, actually came in the 1st half, according to ZBellino, Mighty and TCal, O'Brien's nephews. lol

    Some people have a hard time reading.  It's about running the ball in the 1st half and not just using the spread.

    Prior to the 5:15 mark of the 1st half, the Pats had 4 runs.  Then BJGE got back to back carries, would got a couple and the rest ws history because it offset their sell out on the pass rush. Duh.

    To start the 3rd they ran 4 straight passes and punted. Case closed.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    They kept the TEs in and actually ran the ball.  They didn't go with that ridiculous spread obsession over and over and over.   Once brady has play action and more protection with teams not knowing if it's a run or pass, the offense can dictate instead of being dictated to. They scored a TD before half because they dropped the shotgun./spread. See the Bill O'Brien thread for the discussion on this already.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Nice addition/change to your post dude. You should fix the punctuation when you alter a post though.

    I'm not Obrien's anything. I'm just a guy who watches the games. Please refrain from name calling.

    The poster asked what they did differently in the second half. Your answer was that they ran more Two TE. 

    The answer was pretty clear watching the game ... they opened the offense up a bit. It was the appropriate thing to do at the time, or at least appeared to be considering how effective it was.

    Other times, the appropriate thing will be to close it down and run more. Next week it might be different based on what they think we can get. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? : Zing
    Posted by themightypatriotz

    I'm not "zinging" anyone, and I'm not involved in whatever scrum you guys have going. I'm just answering Bubba's question with the facts I have before me and what I saw yesterday.

    I'm not trying to 'posterize' anyone here.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    I think adjustments aside, they were totally and completely surprised at the pass rush.  They seemed knocked back mentally as well as physically.  Some of the adjustments had an affect i think, like running straight up the gut, some of it was the Lions NOT being able to sustain the effort, and some of it was the Patriots getting pissed about another so so team handing them their hats.  More than anything, I think they MANNED UP.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? : Nice addition/change to your post dude. You should fix the punctuation when you alter a post though. I'm not Obrien's anything. I'm just a guy who watches the games. Please refrain from name calling. The poster asked what they did differently in the second half. Your answer was that they ran more Two TE.  The answer was pretty clear watching the game ... they opened the offense up a bit. It was the appropriate thing to do at the time, or at least appeared to be considering how effective it was. Other times, the appropriate thing will be to close it down and run more. Next week it might be different based on what they think we can get. 
    Posted by zbellino



    No. I said they kept the TEs back to block more and ran it.  I didn't say anything about using 1 or two TEs. 

    The offense was anemic in the spread  until about 5 minutes to go when the started to run it. Prior to that, they had like 5 combined runs through 20 minutes on multiple series.

    Please read better before attacking.  I would stop defending O'Brien's entire half brain farts.  It's a major problem.

    PS No clue on the punctuation comment.





     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NESportnut. Show NESportnut's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    Adjustments to contain the pass rush from Det. was a major difference in the 2nd half, Brady had a second or two more to see the field and shred them. The B & d show was in full force also. Nice balance kept them on thier heels!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wolfwood. Show wolfwood's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    they switched to a max protect using the TE's and ran the ball alot more and used the  the play action  after getting a few good runs
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SShoreLurker. Show SShoreLurker's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    Not a fan of the run-n-shoot we seemed to have adopted from 2007-2009. 

    Didnt work for the Houston Oilers, Detroit Lions, or Atlanta Falcons of the 1990s

    And BB almost got away with it in 2007.  In reality its losing football b/c you are helping the opposition by taking 1/2 of the offense away already.

    running the ball isn't sexy for some arena football fans, but running the ball has been and always will be the way to a championship.  You don't need the wildcat or the 1940 Bears offense, but balance to keep defenses honest.

    Simple.

    Maybe Bill OB finally figured that out.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? The offense was anemic in the spread  until about 5 minutes to go when the started to run it. 

    Prior to that, they had like 5 combined runs through 20 minutes on multiple series. Please read better before attacking.  I would stop defending O'Brien's entire half brain farts. 
    Posted by BBReigns

    They ran that TD from the spread dude. 

    I didn't attack anyone.

    I don't need to defend O'Brien. His offense is #1 in scoring. #5 in 3rd down pct. #2 in passer rating. #1 in 4th down percentage. 

    And the scoring stats aren't really even close. Philly is something like 50 points off, and that counts their gimme against a rudderless Washington club.

    Without commenting on O'Brien any further.... maybe you are being a little hard on the guy considering how effective the offense (arguably the NFL's best) has been?

    If NE's young defense were a little more consistent, this team would be a lock for the SB.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......? : I'm not "zinging" anyone, and I'm not involved in whatever scrum you guys have going. I'm just answering Bubba's question with the facts I have before me and what I saw yesterday. I'm not trying to 'posterize' anyone here.
    Posted by zbellino


    Embarassed
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    Ok, fine. Note these discussions down. I'll be the first to congratulate his playcalling when/if they win it all, or worst case don't botch the talent/personnel's ceiling on this offense here on out.

    I am not buying it right now, though It's a schizo style where he forces in the shotgun/spread.  I have concerns, as we all should.

    This was Detroit.  And the Pats have have a pattern of putting up these points in a half, which means the opposition's D knows what they are doing for an entire half.

    The results are there, but it's the lack of flow and consistency that helps shift momentum in these games.

    This is like the Pats offensive line last year allowing 16 sacks. Is that stat that great, or if you watched the games, is it really not telling the whole story of how Brady was rushed and hurried too much?

    Same idea here.

    They're erupting on bad D's (or Ds like Pitt who don;t match up well) but if they don't streamline it, the playcalling might bite them.

    Again, look at 4th qtr against Indy.  Horrendous.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    here's some info too that I read elswhere..

    2. How the Lions hurt the Patriots with early pressure. The way the Lions were getting pressure up the middle of the pocket early in the game, it wasn't a new look for them. They had used it earlier in the season with end Kyle Vanden Bosch off the line, running twists. Tom Brady is a classic drop-back passer, so a good defensive coordinator like Gunther Cunningham and a good head coach with a defensive background like Jim Schwartz are going to focus on getting pressure up the middle of the pocket. You want to get him off the spot, which is the area behind the center, about 5-6 yards. Once you get Brady moving and off the spot, the idea is that the pressure has more time to rally to get to him. That's what Ndamukong Suh and Vanden Bosch were able to do early in the game. The Detroit defensive line was at times the best unit on the field. Suh and Vanden Bosch lead a fierce defensive line that's going to have that team in contention in the near future.

    3. Keeping Brady upright. How do you deal with a defensive line that is getting pressure against your quarterback, who has a sore foot? You counter that by running the ball. You could see that after Brady got knocked to the ground a few times, there was a conscious effort to get running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis the ball. Midway through the second quarter, on the Patriots' fourth drive of the game, Green-Ellis had five carries. The Patriots had seen enough of Brady getting knocked around. With the play-calling going more to the run, it gets the defensive line to re-think the attack of pinning its ears back and getting after the quarterback. By establishing the run, it gets the defensive line to anchor down more, slowing down the pass rush, and that means fewer hits your quarterback is going to take ... and keeps him off head athletic trainer Jim Whalen's treatment table.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    In Response to Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?:
    Ok, fine. Note these discussions down. I'll be the first to congratulate his playcalling when/if they win it all, or worst case don't botch the talent/personnel's ceiling on this offense here on out. I am not buying it right now, though It's a schizo style where he forces in the shotgun/spread.  I have concerns, as we all should. This was Detroit.  And the Pats have have a pattern of putting up these points in a half, which means the opposition's D knows what they are doing for an entire half. The results are there, but it's the lack of flow and consistency that helps shift momentum in these games. This is like the Pats offensive line last year allowing 16 sacks. Is that stat that great, or if you watched the games, is it really not telling the whole story of how Brady was rushed and hurried too much? Same idea here. They're erupting on bad D's (or Ds like Pitt who don;t match up well) but if they don't streamline it, the playcalling might bite them. Again, look at 4th qtr against Indy.  Horrendous.
    Posted by BBReigns

    The 4Q in Indy was bad execution.

    One drive for a FG stalled because Edelman dropped a pass right on his hands right after two runs for a total of 4 yards.

    The next drive stalled because one of the Indy DBs essentially tackled Branch and the refs didn't throw a flag.

    One drive stalled because they ran the ball twice on first and second down from 2TE and gained only 3 yards forcing a 3rd and long. 

    If Edelman handles the ball on the seven ... if a ref throws a flag (where he should have) ... if NE's offensive line can get more than 2 yards on two plays ... it is likely a very different half. 

    That was 6 passes and 8 runs. They are in ball control mode.  

    Think like Bill for a second. It is 7:07 when they throw a pass to Branch. No flag (there should have been). If they complete that one pass, that is at least another 3:00 minutes off the clock to a punt. Indy gets the ball with 4 minutes remaining. NE gets the ball back with 2:12 remaining. Even on three failed runs they chew up one minute. 

    All of a sudden it is a different game. 

    Honestly. It wasn't the "mix" it was just poor luck, bad officiating, and some plain old poor execution by Edelman, the offensive line, and Brady on one play. 

    I don't know how O'brien can get blamed for "not running." On two of the concluding sets of downs he called two running plays that didn't work. That forces a third and six and third and eight. Are you going to run the ball on 3rd and 6 or third and eight after getting stuffed ... TWICE?

    The moral of the story is .... when you run, run better than they did in the 4th quarter. Not, O'Brien should run more. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: What Did The Patriots Do Differently In Second Half......?

    Bad execution? They went to a spread/shotgun in a lot of those formations.

    Then when they ran, they tried sweeps which plays into Indy's speed from side to side.

    I agree the Polian non-PI call was an issue, but you can't get away from the pass happy final attempts.  

    He stopped running it and then ran sweeps.

    Here is the killer drive:

    7:51 4th NE 1st & 10 at NE23

    Tom Brady Pass Incomplete to Wes Welker 7:49 4th NE 2nd & 10 at NE23 Danny Woodhead Off Left Guard to NE29 for 6 yards 7:20 4th NE 3rd & 4 at NE29 Tom Brady Pass Incomplete to Deion Branch

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2010/11/21/4090_playbyplay.html#ixzz16S3gsVQs


    3rd and 4 and they passed it.   That extra run there, kills another minute off the clock, but they passed it and risked it.
     
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