What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    I might be in the minority here, but I'd go so far to say that if we had won that last Super Bowl Brady wins the MVP award hands down. Easy. I can't think of one single Patriot that stood out in a good way during that entire game, besides him. Every drive started from deep in our territory and he played pretty darn well against a good rush, without Gronk near 100%.
    Posted by mthurl


    Without question Brady would have won the MVP if the D didn't collapse on the last drive.... unless somebody made a spectacular D play to ice it during that defensive stand- like pick off Eli in the EZ. That might have undone his lock, but nothing else before it could have.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : It's sad but kinda true :(
    Posted by csylvia79


    Sad falls so short. More like sick to your stomach despair.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Woudn't doubt if the caller was one of our "loveables",
    Posted by pezz4pats



    Rusty the troll.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : If I had to Be honest: Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers.....Oh wait, Now im in trouble on the Pats CULT discussion board, because I think someone else has played better than our beloved Brady....like lets just be real for 5 seconds.....YES it is possible that someone else has played better than our fav. QB.....
    Posted by ReeGzUSMC


    Spare us your moron's view. I just have no more patience for this level of stupidity.

    Other than feasting on Pats' defensive collapses Eli has absolutely NOTHING to crow about compared to Brady. And Rodgers clearly can't boast the same numbers from 2007 until now that Brady can. All he can boast about is a better defense in his SB year.

    I'm smelling a rat here. Named Rusty.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : What you are not saying is Brady not Welker caused us the game Welker did his job by getting open and Brady missed the throw badly trade him why we can still get two number 1's after this year.
    Posted by vegasredsox


    Welker    dropped    the    Lombardi    trophy. There is nothing mor to say.
     
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    I agree to all is said here. But I have to think that the first 3 SB Brady won was cause of his defense shutting the othe teams in the final 5 minutes. Defense came up huge with INT's in the Rams and Phill SB's. Againts the Panthers. The defense came up very very big that gave the Offense enough time to make a run for a filed goal. So with that said. The last 2 SB's the defense didnt do enough to stop the other team. They were able to go up and down on your defense as they liked. I really believe that defense does wins SB's. Brady can only do so much. 52 other players need to step up their games too not just always attack the QB.
     
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    Number of Super Bowl wins after Patriots CONVICTED of Cheating .      Manning - 1      Manning - 2                         Patsy's - 0 - Priceless!
    Posted by ManningRules



    Liar. The Pats were never caught nor convicted of cheating.
     
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    I was listening to Felger and Mazz on the way home from work a couple days ago, and a Pats fan called in and made in interesting point about our HOF QB Mr. Brady. He basically said that he loved Brady, bla bla bla, but he brought up the point : When is the last time Brady has won a meaningful game? When was the last time Brady was clutch in a huge game, like the Brady of old? He went on to even say Brady is living off his past success and superbowls he won almost a decade ago. He said that is seems he has turned from a mediocre regular season QB with clutch postseason games, to a Peyton Manning type QB with mind blowing regular season numbers, but suspect post season performances, coming up short in the big games. He said it seems there used to be the " Me against the world " Tom Brady, and now its the " Hey my wife is Giselle and I won 3 superbowls " lol. Felger disagreed with him, and stated that Tom had a good enough performance to win this past Superbowl, had Welker caught that pass. The caller disagreed, arguing that Brady played much worse in that game than he did all season, bringing up the intentional grounding for a safety on the first drive etc. It made me think......is he kind of right?? I mean, I do NOT take Brady's greatness for granted...but its been almost a decade, and although the Pats put up these great numbers and records in the regular season, is it a legit argument to question if Brady is still clutch in the big games? Is he still that guy who can lead his team to a late game comeback? His window is closing, the team is stacked...I just wonder how many more chances he will get...What do you guys think?
    Posted by ReeGzUSMC


         Tom really hasn't played that well in the play-offs since SB 42. I thought then, and still believe now, that his confidence was shaken by that heart-breaking, 17-14 loss. Since then, though he's performed like a champ in the regular season, the truth is that he's been mediocre at best in the play-offs. But, how much does that have to do with the Patriots not having as good a team overall, as they did in the championship years, and in 2007?

         Last season, Tom didn't play well against the Ravens, and was not so hot in SB 46. But, in his defense, he was playing back to back games against perhaps the two toughest defenses in the NFL. Whether you're Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, or Hugh Millen, no QB is going to consistently shred the top defenses in this league.

         In the play-offs, Tom needs more help from his defense, and, especially, the strong support of his OL...which was so severely lacking in SB 42.   
     
     
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    In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": Honestly, I never thought the criticism of Manning was fair and I don't think the criticism of Brady is any more justified. Both of these guys are about as good as you can find and both give you an excellent chance of winning just about any game, big or small. Sure, Brady is human and he makes some mistakes. He may also push a little more now than he did in the past because the expectations and demands placed on him are higher than ever, but I still think he generally performs at as high a level as you can reasonably expect and he does it as consistently as just about anyone. The real issue with the Pats in the last few years has been a lack of good defense and an offense that doesn't have a diverse enough selection of talent. Brady, in my opinion, is the least of this teams problems.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

    I completely agree with this.  I am simply pointing out that Brady is today what Manning always has been, and those Pats fans that have been critical of Manning now have to (if they are being honest) be critical of Brady. 

    IMO, Brady is above the criticism, unless you trash Manning.  As the responsibility given to Brady has increased, the Pats been successful on every stage but the Superbowl.  That success can be attributed significantly to Brady. 

    Ultimately, the point is that if one defends Brady while trashing Manning, he's not being honest.  Manning's historical situation (good o marginal d) is eerily similar to what Brady has experienced the last 4 years. 
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I admit that I become testy with the constant criticism of Brady's play and BB's coaching around here. These two are the best in the NFL at what they do. You and I have been studying this game for a long time. People like Brady and BB come along once in a lifetime for a football fan in most cases. How long has Miami been trying to find a Marino and a Shula? How long have the jets been trying to replace Namath and Ewbank? How long have the Bills been looking for a Kelly and Levy? Brady puts up a 100 post-season and many focus on on him as the problem because he didn't put up a 125. Meanwhile, a defense that gives up yards by the bushel baskets and regularly collapses in the endgame of the close ones is praised. It is absolute madness. Thank goodness our HC isn't as daft as many of the fans. He went all out to fix this damned defense. I just hope he has finally succeeded. I've got a feeling he has.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    Babe, the reason for this is that some pats fans know the defense isn't that good.  They also know that Brady is capable of delivering the team to victory.  Brady's stature is at the top of league.  Remember that run of postseason victories in the early 2000's?  Remember how much praise was heaped on Brady for all of those victories?  Was it irrational praise?  You decide. 

    If you give Brady all the praise for those wins, then he gets all the blame for the losses.  On the other hand, if you believe that wins are a team result and one man can't do it alone, then not only was the praise excessive and incorrect in the early years, the blame for the losses since that time are also excessive and incorrect.  You can't have it both ways.
     
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    In Response to What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I think you sound a lot like a Colts' fan, that's what I think..! Suggestion....  Sign up for the NFL's Game Rewind and watch last year's SB, just for starters.  Pay attention to the end of the first half, in particular, say the last 6 minutes.  Brady, in crunch time, led the Pats down the field to the go ahead TD with time running out.  Then, he had them ahead late in the fourth, and had 3passes dropped, including Welker's, which would have iced the game.  But, c'est la vie, he didn't.  Make no mistake, tho, it was the NE defense that lost that game.  Same way, in fact, they lost their last SB against the G-Men.  Nothing to do with Brady's performance.....unless you expect him to be Superman in every game..!  
    Posted by Mr Bojangles



    Nah, Def. Not a Colts fan, but cute assumption....Its called looking at a big picture....I think brady is great...Top 5 in the league no question.....BUT....since 07...... two first round exits, and another dissapointing SuperBowl loss....Thats all I need to say... POSTSEASON is where the Games Matter most...is that even an argument?
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I've yet to see what dumb things he's said.  I'll admit he's not been all that kind, but the cliche, "the truth hurts", didn't become one by being wrong. 
    Posted by UD6


    He's "fudged" the truth a number of times and refuses to answer questions and refuses to back up his BS, not unlike ......well, you.  Must be an Indy thing.
    Copying the same post over and over.  Pft  You can teach a monkey to do that.
    All animals learn by repetition.
    No one cares about accumulative stats gained by 2000 more throws.  Brady will surpass him on those.
    That doesn't necessarily make him good, more like selfish.
    Kinda like when Brees beat your clots 72-3.  Isn't that where Brees got most of his yards and TD's last year? 
    Without that embarrassment, Brady wins that record too.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Babe, the reason for this is that some pats fans know the defense isn't that good.  They also know that Brady is capable of delivering the team to victory.  Brady's stature is at the top of league.  Remember that run of postseason victories in the early 2000's?  Remember how much praise was heaped on Brady for all of those victories?  Was it irrational praise?  You decide.  If you give Brady all the praise for those wins, then he gets all the blame for the losses.  On the other hand, if you believe that wins are a team result and one man can't do it alone, then not only was the praise excessive and incorrect in the early years, the blame for the losses since that time are also excessive and incorrect.  You can't have it both ways. Posted by UD6
    The truth is that Brady's play (like Manning's by the way) has been consistently good throughout his career. He never deserved all the praise for winning --it is a team game--but he did deserve a lot of praise. What he's never deserved is a whole lot of blame for the rare losses over the past few years. Yes, he's made mistakes and there's nothing wrong with pointing those out, but it's a rare game indeed that the Pats lose because Brady messes up. So he deserves a lot of praise for his outstanding play, but rather little blame for poor play because, quite simply, there hasn't been all that much poor play. The same is true, as I said, about Manning. The few fans who come on and complain about Brady have a pretty weak grasp of the realities of football--at least as it pertains to Brady's performance and its effect on the outcome of a game.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Nah, Def. Not a Colts fan, but cute assumption....Its called looking at a big picture....I think brady is great...Top 5 in the league no question.....BUT....since 07...... two first round exits, and another dissapointing SuperBowl loss....Thats all I need to say... POSTSEASON is where the Games Matter most...is that even an argument?
    Posted by ReeGzUSMC



    Wow. Top 5? You are really going out on a limb. Tell us the 4 that are better genius.

    I know Rodgers can't be one of them because he just got owned by Eli and company at home with his one and out and 78 passing in the post-season. That's what matters most right... it isn't even an argument?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : He's "fudged" the truth a number of times and refuses to answer questions and refuses to back up his BS,
    Dang Pezz, I get that all of the time from this board.  I'd just call it par for the course. 

    not unlike ......well, you.  Must be an Indy thing.
    See above.  Indy's got no patent on that.  You can find such things on this board daily.

    Copying the same post over and over.  Pft  You can teach a monkey to do that.
    All animals learn by repetition.
    Who are you Dr. Doolittle?  copying the same posts is no different that saying the same thing over and over again.  For example, how many times have you heard Babe say NE's defense failed in the endgame?  See, its the same thing.   

    No one cares about accumulative stats gained by 2000 more throws. 
    No one?  Or no Pats fan? 

    Brady will surpass him on those.
    Maybe.  Maybe not.

    That doesn't necessarily make him good, more like selfish.
    Selfish or doing what's necessary to win the game. 

    Kinda like when Brees beat your clots 72-3.  Isn't that where Brees got most of his yards and TD's last year?  Without that embarrassment, Brady wins that record too.
    I don't really know.  I could look into it.  Are you suggesting that Brady has never done such things?
    Posted by pezz4pats


    Pezz, I am more in line with Prolate on the subject, but that doesn't mean that Manning Rules isn't making valid arguments.


     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": The truth is that Brady's play (like Manning's by the way) has been consistently good throughout his career. He never deserved all the praise for winning --it is a team game--but he did deserve a lot of praise. What he's never deserved is a whole lot of blame for the rare losses over the past few years. Yes, he's made mistakes and there's nothing wrong with pointing those out, but it's a rare game indeed that the Pats lose because Brady messes up. So he deserves a lot of praise for his outstanding play, but rather little blame for poor play because, quite simply, there hasn't been all that much poor play. The same is true, as I said, about Manning. The few fans who come on and complain about Brady have a pretty weak grasp of the realities of football--at least as it pertains to Brady's performance and its effect on the outcome of a game.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    BINGO
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Babe, the reason for this is that some pats fans know the defense isn't that good.  They also know that Brady is capable of delivering the team to victory.  Brady's stature is at the top of league.  Remember that run of postseason victories in the early 2000's?  Remember how much praise was heaped on Brady for all of those victories?  Was it irrational praise?  You decide.  If you give Brady all the praise for those wins, then he gets all the blame for the losses.  On the other hand, if you believe that wins are a team result and one man can't do it alone, then not only was the praise excessive and incorrect in the early years, the blame for the losses since that time are also excessive and incorrect.  You can't have it both ways.
    Posted by UD6


    I've never gave Brady all the praise for those wins. So, you're spinning your wheels yet again.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I've yet to see what dumb things he's said.  I'll admit he's not been all that kind, but the cliche, "the truth hurts", didn't become one by being wrong. 
    Posted by UD6



    What truth? He says the Pats cheated. The NFL doesn't say that. He touts Manning's career totals - Brady's career isn't over yet. He says because Brady has thrown some 2000 passes less that he will not end up as good as Manning, which is pure stupidity since Brady's averages better. He's an idiot, like you, but worse.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Pezz, I am more in line with Prolate on the subject, but that doesn't mean that Manning Rules isn't making valid arguments.
    Posted by UD6


    Give me a SINGLE example of a valid argument he has presented.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I've never gave Brady all the praise for those wins. So, you're spinning your wheels yet again.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    Not really, the "you" I referenced was "the collective" you.  It was a generalization that could apply to anyone.  I never said that you specifically gave Brady all the praise for his early postseason wins, but there are plenty that want to credit him for them. 

    I am not spinning at all.  I suggest you try to open your mind when you read things.  It'll help you with your reading comprehension.
     
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    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Give me a SINGLE example of a valid argument he has presented.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    The facts he cited are valid.  He said Manning was best.  He cited many facts to support his argument.  That doesn't mean he's wrong or right.  It means he's made a valid (credible) argument. 

    If you want more specifics, I'll be happy to provide them, but they are all over this and another thread to support his point.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : The facts he cited are valid.  He said Manning was best.  He cited many facts to support his argument.  That doesn't mean he's wrong or right.  It means he's made a valid (credible) argument.  If you want more specifics, I'll be happy to provide them, but they are all over this and another thread to support his point.
    Posted by UD6


    Citing that Manning is the only guy to throw for 4000 yards four seasons in a row is a valid argument that he is the best? Citing quantity numbers when the quantity is not finalized is a valid argument?

    Provide more specifics.
     
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