What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : That is so stupid, that is dumber than a bag of dildos.  The Pat's HAD a 21 point lead against the Bills last season at the half, they refused to run in the 2nd half and the Bills came back and won.  It's called "running down the clock" or another example of clock management which you know nothing about. The following game against the Raiders the Pats ran for their season high on the ground and leading up to and following the game all Tom Brady and BB spoke about being "balanced," they said it, not me. New England coach Bill Belichick said. "We always want to have balance and we were able to have it today." “It’s the key,” wide receiver  Deion Branch   commented about the balanced approach, before qualifying, “but it’s week-to-week. I even said this last week [against Buffalo]: ‘Hey, we threw the ball a lot last week. Another week we may run the ball a lot.’ Which we did today. It’s always a plus when you run the football. It opens up a lot of things in the passing game, which it did [today]. We knew they could do it.” I can imagine you back in the dark ages arguing that the world was flat...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Yup they had a 21 point lead and lost it.  Partially due to TBs picks and partially due to the D not being able to hold the lead.
    Is there a rule that says picks=7.  Nope. Still the D'd responsibility to stop the other team from scoring.
    Sit on the ball and know the D is going to give up 7 on 50% of their possessions or put the game out of reach so it doesn't matter that the D is going to give up 7 on every possession.
    The Pats are a reactive team.  They adjust to the situation.  If the situation calls for extending the lead because you know your porous D is not going to hold, then that's what you do.  It's called playing your strength.
    Just because you do not get it, doesn't make it stupid.
     
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    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": One dimensional is not better and no one is claiming that. All we're saying is that the coaches aren't idiots who forgot football history and logic. I don't believe that you and true champ are better offensive coordinators than Bill O'Brien. Sorry, but if you were, you'd be making millions coaching an NFL or NCAA offense too. Nor do I believe for an instant that BB stares at the defense all game and ignores what's going on on offense--especially not if he mistrusts the offensive coordinator. Maybe rather than whining and complaining about BO'B you and true champ should assume that he knows more about football than you do and try to understand why he's doing something different than what you think he should do. Maybe then you'd learn something. Reading Wikipedia is not helping right now. There are clear reasons why the Pats didn't run more last year--primarily because their defense wasn't dependable enough to hold leads in close games and their running game was, at best, average. These weaknesses dictated a different kind of offensive play calling than what was effective in the early 2000s when the defense was better and the running game better or equal. This is obvious. What's absurd is assuming at Bill O 'Brien is stupid and Bill Belichick too concerned about the defense to do anything about it in the biggest freakin'' game of the year!
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Not only does he quote Wik, but he fails to post the very next paragraph which describes what  it evolved into.
    We are not playing early year Parcells any more.  Th game has changed to favor passing.
    You don't run to win, you run when you are winning.  (Providing you have a D that can hold a 3 score lead)  ugh
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": One dimensional is not better and no one is claiming that. All we're saying is that the coaches aren't idiots who forgot football history and logic. I don't believe that you and true champ are better offensive coordinators than Bill O'Brien. Sorry, but if you were, you'd be making millions coaching an NFL or NCAA offense too. Nor do I believe for an instant that BB stares at the defense all game and ignores what's going on on offense--especially not if he mistrusts the offensive coordinator. Maybe rather than whining and complaining about BO'B you and true champ should assume that he knows more about football than you do and try to understand why he's doing something different than what you think he should do. Maybe then you'd learn something. Reading Wikipedia is not helping right now. There are clear reasons why the Pats didn't run more last year--primarily because their defense wasn't dependable enough to hold leads in close games and their running game was, at best, average. These weaknesses dictated a different kind of offensive play calling than what was effective in the early 2000s when the defense was better and the running game better or equal. This is obvious. What's absurd is assuming at Bill O 'Brien is stupid and Bill Belichick too concerned about the defense to do anything about it in the biggest freakin'' game of the year!
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I think you are saying that, in fact you guys are shouting it from the highest mountain.  Belichick coach's the defense, this isn't anything revelatory, or haven't you noticed he hired an offensive coordinator but not a defensive one? Haven't you noticed him chatting up the defense while the offense has is floundering on the field?  I actually give BB more credit than you, that he is actually a manager of people who allows his leaders to lead for good or bad. You think he micro manages everything which is impossible.  He has had to replace offensive coordinator 4 times in his tenure, every time he hires one they're gone the next year, I've long stated that THIS has been the problem.

    There are 12 year olds playing Madden that could call a better game than O'Brien.  Not much more to add to this one, give me Tom Brady calling the signals and I would statistically be one of the top offensive coordinators in the league, doesn't mean I would know what it takes to win a ring or even understand the philosophical premise behind the offensive system. Not every young coach coming up through Bill's system is the next coming of Knute Rockne... sorry you think that.

    And if you think the 2001 team was more talented than say, just about any team Belichick has coached here since (with the lone exception being 2002, riddled with injury) than your seeing what you want to see. 

    Or maybe you long for the days of Greg Robinson Randall at right tackle, Grey Ruegamer or Mike Compton at guard?

    Your receivers in 2001: Troy Brown a slot receiver as your 1A guy, David Patten a one dimensional deep threat, Charles Johnson, Bert Emanuel and Torrance Small.  You'll recognize the last three names from the Hall of Fame no doubt...

    More talent than now, no that's not it at all.


     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : ^This^ The only difference between Brady of today and yesterday was style of play. The Pat's of old were ranked in the top of the league in rushing attempts, first downs and time of possession. These things all go hand in hand. The Pat's of 2001 were the most talent deficient Pat's team to make it to a Super Bowl in the Belichick era and they won. We won with Troy Brown, Deion Branch and David Givens as our leading receivers, we won with Troy Brown playing nickel corner... we won. The only common denominator is the run game.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Not the only one.  Also common in the wins vs. the losses was a dominant defense.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Not the only one.  Also common in the wins vs. the losses was a dominant defense.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    The only Super Bowl in which the Pat's gave up fewer points than last year was 2001.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I think you are saying that, in fact you guys are shouting it from the highest mountain.  Belichick coach's the defense, this isn't anything revelatory, or haven't you noticed he hired an offensive coordinator but not a defensive one? Haven't you noticed him chatting up the defense while the offense has is floundering on the field?  I actually give BB more credit than you, that he is actually a manager of people who allows his leaders to lead for good or bad. You think he micro manages everything which is impossible.  He has had to replace offensive coordinator 4 times in his tenure, every time he hires one they're gone the next year, I've long stated that THIS has been the problem. There are 12 year olds playing Madden that could call a better game than O'Brien.  Not much more to add to this one, give me Tom Brady calling the signals and I would statistically be one of the top offensive coordinators in the league, doesn't mean I would know what it takes to win a ring or even understand the philosophical premise behind the offensive system. Not every young coach coming up through Bill's system is the next coming of Knute Rockne... sorry you think that. And if you think the 2001 team was more talented than say, just about any team Belichick has coached here since (with the lone exception being 2002, riddled with injury) than your seeing what you want to see.  Or maybe you long for the days of Greg Robinson Randall at right tackle, Grey Ruegamer or Mike Compton at guard? Your receivers in 2001: Troy Brown a slot receiver as your 1A guy, David Patten a one dimensional deep threat, Charles Johnson, Bert Emanuel and Torrance Small.  You'll recognize the last three names from the Hall of Fame no doubt... More talent than now, no that's not it at all. Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE] Yeah, right, you have a lot of respect for BB. yet you think he hired then promoted a guy who could be out coached by a twelve year old. I won't even touch the part where you claim you'd be a better OC than most in the league!
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": Yeah, right, you have a lot of respect for BB. yet you think he hired then promoted a guy who could be out coached by a twelve year old. I won't even touch the part where you claim you'd be a better OC than most in the league!
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    But you'd be the first guy to criticize Belichick for taking Tavon Wilson, Laurence Maroney or Terrence Wheately with a draft pick.  

    Funny how one can question each and every personnel move of BB's, who he HIRES to play for him but thinking he may have overestimated the intelligence of one of his coordinators is taboo... too rich.

    The proof is in the results, in three Super Bowls the offense marched the team down to a win.  What has happened since?
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : The only Super Bowl in which the Pat's gave up fewer points than last year was 2001.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    So you are saying the pats would have won by even more if they had last year's defense in 03 and 04? 

    One of the key things the pats got from their defense in those winning years was turnovers.  Last  year's D produced 2 in the playoffs. 
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : So you are saying the pats would have won by even more if they had last year's defense in 03 and 04?  One of the key things the pats got from their defense in those winning years was turnovers.  Last  year's D produced 2 in the playoffs. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    I'm saying utilizing the ball control offense the Giant's used maybe we could have kept their offense off the field and our defense would have been better rested, they didn't beat us, we just ran out of time.  It's how our last three winning Super Bowls came down to the end with the ball in our possession.  

    Aren't you a Dolt's fan, you know nothing about "smash mouth" football so why am I talking to you again?
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? :
     Funny how one can question each and every personnel move of BB's, who he HIRES to play for him but thinking he may have overestimated the intelligence of one of his coordinators is taboo... too rich.

    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Right Einstein. Fans pointing out that a number of picks were failures justifies you thinking you know better how to coach the team than BB. Imbecility.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I'm saying utilizing the ball control offense the Giant's used maybe we could have kept their offense off the field and our defense would have been better rested,
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]


    Hello, McFly! Eli tore our mickey mouse D to shreds with 75% completions. That was their ball control. Meanwhile our backs were getting 3.6 yards a carry. Learn the game.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : So you are saying the pats would have won by even more if they had last year's defense in 03 and 04?  One of the key things the pats got from their defense in those winning years was turnovers.  Last  year's D produced 2 in the playoffs.  Posted by UD6[/QUOTE] Last years defense also allowed just over 16 ppg, good for 2nd in the playoffs. As fans do we now ignore this statistic? In the SB they held their opponent to 13 points through 55 minutes yet kept getting put back on the field. For a patchwork secondary I would say the defense exceeded our expectations. How did the offense do? Not realistic to expect this defense to keep holding the gints to punts and fgs. Should be realistic to expect our offense to either score more then 17 points or at least run a few successful 4minute drives in order to protect our D, they couldn't......again and we lost....again.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I'm saying utilizing the ball control offense the Giant's used maybe we could have kept their offense off the field and our defense would have been better rested, they didn't beat us, we just ran out of time.  It's how our last three winning Super Bowls came down to the end with the ball in our possession.   Aren't you a Dolt's fan, you know nothing about "smash mouth" football so why am I talking to you again?
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]
    That's not really what you said.  You suggested seemed to suggest that since the opposition scored less in last year's SB than in the one's in 03 and 04 that the 11 defense was better than those.  I disagree.

    Further, I'll side with Prolate on this.  I'd imagine your coaching staff knows better what it can and cannot do most effectively.  If they are not running the ball, then it would be my assessment that the coaching staff believes and has evidence that running the ball is not effective, because either the line is not effective at run blocking, the running backs are not effective at running the ball or the opposing defense is superior in run defense. 

    3 and outs running the ball would not be considered by most reasonable thinkers to be effective clock management.  And I don't believe a rational thinker would emphasize an ineffective running game with Tom Brady under center, Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Welker as pass catchers. 

    I don't like Belichick, but I respect him as a football coach and football mind.  I really don't see him minimizing a team strength in the superbowl just to prove to everyone once again that Tom Brady knows how to play the QB position.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?":....again and we lost....again.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, that happens when a mickey mouse defense collapses in the endgame.

    Brady threw 2 TDs in his 34 attempts before the hail mary drive the D collapse forced on him. That's right on his career TD/atts. Can't blame him for the lack of scoring. And that without an effective Gronk and an embarrassing number of drops.

    Look to running backs who had 3.6 yac and a defense that couldn't get off the field for your low scoring.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? :  I'd imagine your coaching staff knows better what it can and cannot do most effectively.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    C'mon. You don't feel wozzydoo is far more capable than BB to coach the team?
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?": Last years defense also allowed just over 16 ppg, good for 2nd in the playoffs. As fans do we now ignore this statistic? In the SB they held their opponent to 13 points through 55 minutes yet kept getting put back on the field. For a patchwork secondary I would say the defense exceeded our expectations. How did the offense do? Not realistic to expect this defense to keep holding the gints to punts and fgs. Should be realistic to expect our offense to either score more then 17 points or at least run a few successful 4minute drives in order to protect our D, they couldn't......again and we lost....again.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    ^
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : C'mon. You don't feel wozzydoo is far more capable than BB to coach the team?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Your the last person that should call out someone else for obtuse comments. 

    Dead last.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Your the last person that should call out someone else for obtuse comments.  Dead last.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    This why I have him on ignore, with you right or wrong at least there's some give and take.  And your not pretending to be a Pat's fan either...

    As far as your comments about Belichick not believing in his O line or runningbacks or the overall strength of the Giant's ability to stop the run, that doesn't hold water. The old offensive philosophy stated that even if you weren't overly successful at running that you continued to attempt it anyway to keep the opposing defense honest.

    There has been an obvious and palpable shift in philosophy since McDaniel left after 2008.  The offense has been aimless and without direction. The time of possession has dipped in concert with the dip in rushing attempts and the personnel has veered away from their given assignments, third down backs used to be relegated to third downs and the workhorse backs had their job, this can't be dismissed.  

    Just because Danny Woodhead is given a chance to run the ball there is a clear difference between that and lining up I-Formation and power running with a power back, which used to be the standard.  I have to believe BB let's his manager's manage and offense has never been his strong point.

    The Patriot's annually are among the most talented teams in the NFL, talent isn't the issue.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : This why I have him on ignore, with you right or wrong at least there's some give and take.  And your not pretending to be a Pat's fan either... As far as your comments about Belichick not believing in his O line or runningbacks or the overall strength of the Giant's ability to stop the run, that doesn't hold water. The old offensive philosophy stated that even if you weren't overly successful at running that you continued to attempt it anyway to keep the opposing defense honest. There has been an obvious and palpable shift in philosophy since McDaniel left after 2008.  The offense has been aimless and without direction. The time of possession has dipped in concert with the dip in rushing attempts and the personnel has veered away from their given assignments, third down backs used to be relegated to third downs and the workhorse backs had their job, this can't be dismissed.   Just because Danny Woodhead is given a chance to run the ball there is a clear difference between that and lining up I-Formation and power running with a power back, which used to be the standard.  I have to believe BB let's his manager's manage and offense has never been his strong point. The Patriot's annually are among the most talented teams in the NFL, talent isn't the issue.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    I just heard Parcells interview on Sirius radio. I'm paraphrasing but he said...

    { I run into Bill(Belichick) a few times a summer and I just said to him, Bill don't forget how you got here, a good defense, and he knows it, and I think clearly he wants to get back to that. It's obvious with his recent draft of all defense and a bunch of FA's. He knows what he's doing.}

    Even Parcells agrees that we have gotten away from building this team around the defense.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    I don't think it's any coincidence that Bill O'Brien is gone and Josh McDaniels was all ready to step in.

    Yeah, he went "voluntarily" on his own to college football purgatory because Bill wanted him to stay OC of the Pats.

    BB made a mistake on O'Brien as the OC.  He does make mistakes now and then.

    Me, I'm just glad he's gone.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]I don't think it's any coincidence that Bill O'Brien is gone and Josh McDaniels was all ready to step in. Yeah, he went "voluntarily" on his own to college football purgatory because Bill wanted him to stay OC of the Pats. BB made a mistake on O'Brien as the OC.  He does make mistakes now and then. Me, I'm just glad he's gone.
    Posted by Salcon[/QUOTE]

    The players call him "teapot" because he boils over so much. When he went off on Brady for his dressing down of Underwood and BB came over to say knock it off O'Brien needed to be further restrained by Hoyer and simply ignored BB.

    I doubt very much this was an isolated incident based on the nickname. You don't ignore BB and stick around. I doubt BB did not resign him because of his OC work. After all, BB put him in that slot. But notice BB did not shower him with praise when he departed like he did McD. Considering OB and McD offenses were not that different it seems clear BB let him go because he alienated people with his temper. Just a problem child BB didn't want to deal with anymore.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Your the last person that should call out someone else for obtuse comments.  Dead last.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    Get over yourself snivelling little troll. I'm tired of treating you with kid gloves.

    Now take your sexual assaulter loving moron's carcass back to some Indy forum with the rest of your fellow sexual assaulter loving inbreds before I really have to expose your unsavory character.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : I just heard Parcells interview on Sirius radio. I'm paraphrasing but he said... { I run into Bill(Belichick) a few times a summer and I just said to him, Bill don't forget how you got here, a good defense, and he knows it, and I think clearly he wants to get back to that. It's obvious with his recent draft of all defense and a bunch of FA's. He knows what he's doing.} Even Parcells agrees that we have gotten away from building this team around the defense.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Of course he said that. He has a clue. And BB has tried hard to do just that for years. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out yet. Let's hope his recent massive investment gets it done.
     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

    In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : This why I have him on ignore, with you right or wrong at least there's some give and take.  And your not pretending to be a Pat's fan either...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]


    You have me on ignore because I expose your BS. You're the one who thinks you're a better coach than BB, not me. I let him coach the team without complaint.

     
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    Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do my fellow Pats fans think of this? : Your the last person that should call out someone else for obtuse comments.  Dead last.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    You didn't answer the question Colts' troll.
     

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