What If BB Did This:

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    I stopped being interested when you talked about giving up a 1st rounder for Cruz.

     



    But if Cruz was draft eligible and you knew how good he is, he'd be the top WR in this draft. You have zero idea how good Austin will be, for example, but you know how good Cruz is.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Agree again muzz. Austin is electric, but I like Cruz more because of his size and ability to play any WR spot. plus he is proven. 

    If bb was seriously thinking about drafting a wr early, then you have to consider Cruz. At least consider and see if you get can get the finances to work. Lloyd just saved us 2-3m, if we take that, give cruz 5-6 per, have a 2013 cap hit somewhere in the 3-4m range, I think that it would work financially.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Rusty, I have trouble with the idea of giving up that first rounder for Cruz (even though I like Cruz).  I haven't looked all that closely at who's available in the draft, but I sort of like the Pats doing what they did last year and actually trading up for quality at one or two key positions.  Those positions could be any two or three of the following (roughly in order of priority):

    WR

    DT

    OT (if they don't sign Vollmer or another free agent)

    CB

    Safety

    Guard/center

    Coverage LB

    Edge pass rusher (DE/OLB)

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Rusty, I have trouble with the idea of giving up that first rounder for Cruz (even though I like Cruz).  I haven't looked all that closely at who's available in the draft, but I sort of like the Pats doing what they did last year and actually trading up for quality at one or two key positions.  Those positions could be any two or three of the following (roughly in order of priority):

    WR

    DT

    OT (if they don't sign Vollmer or another free agent)

    CB

    Safety

    Guard/center

    Coverage LB

    Edge pass rusher (DE/OLB)

     

     



    Well, if they sign Vollmer and trade Mallett for Taylor, then two of your top three are covered, and they could use the 1 on Cruz or the the 3 on Sanders. I don't see both, and I think Sanders is far more likely. But I wouldn't be upset if they added Victor Cruz, as opposed to some rookie who may/may not pan out.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

     

    I stopped being interested when you talked about giving up a 1st rounder for Cruz.

     

     



    But if Cruz was draft eligible and you knew how good he is, he'd be the top WR in this draft. You have zero idea how good Austin will be, for example, but you know how good Cruz is.

     

     




    Yeah, he also doesn't realize that a 1st rder is the tender for Cruz.  Personally, I'd like to permanently fix and settle this WR problem Brady has had in various degrees, since 2009.

     

    The only way to do that is to get more of the same kind of player v.s. limiting yourself into skill sets that are piegonholed into specific spots on the field.

     



    Do you back giving a 1st for Cruz and getting sanders With our 3rd?

    i would if, big if, bb can get something for mallet in the 2nd or 3rd round, and/or a player of need like Phil Tamentions folks have been mentIoning. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Cruz or sanders or another vet WR yet to be named are coming here. I don't think bb goes into the season with amendola, jones and a rookie. Can't see it. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Rusty, I have trouble with the idea of giving up that first rounder for Cruz (even though I like Cruz).  I haven't looked all that closely at who's available in the draft, but I sort of like the Pats doing what they did last year and actually trading up for quality at one or two key positions.  Those positions could be any two or three of the following (roughly in order of priority):

    WR

    DT

    OT (if they don't sign Vollmer or another free agent)

    CB

    Safety

    Guard/center

    Coverage LB

    Edge pass rusher (DE/OLB)

     

     




    How can you trade up when you don't have the picks to do it and why would you necessarily if it's a deep draft?

     

    Mayock was saying pick 5 -25 are the same value.

    The only way I;d pick in the top 10 is if that Mallett to Cleveland Mallett where we swapped 1st rd spots was a reality.

    Anyway, just throwing an example out there.  It looks to be somewhat split down the middle so far.

    I look at Brady's career in a 4 year window, to be honest. The older he gets, the less likely it would seem that he will be leading this team to a SB title.

    How many more younger players do we need after BB spent the last drafts getting younger players for the base of the offense and defense?

     



    I like the idea of trading Mallet to get a bit more ammo to move up in the draft. It may be true that picks 5 to 25 have similar value, but picking earlier still gives you more flexibility to get the player you want at the position you need. 

    I also think, while we're young overall, youth at receiver and DT would be nice, since we have no quality youth at those positions. I think we want to plan past Brady too. I like what BB has done so far in free agency--i just think the draft gives us more opportunity for quality at WR and DT  now, and picking higher will help.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    I know this sounds counter-intuitive but just bear with me:

     

    1. Trade a 1st rder to NYGs for Victor Cruz. They have no money to really sign him long term and are sort of in a rebuilding on the fly mode now, so they may like this.

    2. Sign Abraham and don't sign Dumvervil. You can probably get him for no more than 4 mil per for the next 2 years, maybe less.

    3. Trade Ryan Mallett for no less than 3rd rd pick. I think BB can get a 2nd here, however.

    4. Hope Pitt can't match NE's tender to Emmanuel Sanders.

    5.. Trade back with your 2 2nd rders (the one you get in a Mallett deal), to get the 3rd rder back. So, you'd have no first rounder in this deep draft.

    So, you'd have a 2nd, 3rd and 4th to make your draft count.

    I guess my point is, how many more younger players do we really need in the next 2-3 years?

    Would it be that bad if BB treated this draft like the 2007 draft and addressed a final pass rushing piece in Abraham for 2 years, handled the Safety spot already and most importantly have WRs who you know have experience, good football IQ, can run routes from all spots and can be locked up on your own terms for the long term?

    You basically address all the spots you need to before the draft even happens, so the picks are now more seen as developmental players instead of players of need right away.

    Brady's WRs would be:

    Amendola, Cruz, Sanders, Jones and Slater.

    His TEs:  Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard

    That's a pretty ridiculous set of weapons and the key is the balance within their skill sets.

     




    Interesting. Can't really argue, but how about this...

    Sign Dumervil, resign Lloyd and make sure the deal for Sanders comes through. I imagine the three of these deals will add up to 13 million or so (which is roughly what we have left). By doing this you add a pass rusher that is under 30 and productive. We get a experienced receiver in our system and a young one that has some of the potential that a young Deion Branch had. To me this will add the offensive pieces we need and yet still leave us with a first round pick.

    I'd try to get something in return for Mallett - let's say the football gods allow us to net a second rounder for him...I'd select a tackle to take over for Vollmer. I'd use the first rounder we still have to select one of the five defensive tackles that will go in the first round this year. With our other second round pick I'd select the best available player - and I don't care what position he plays - just don't reach for need. I'd even by open to selecting Carradine and waiting for his knee to heal up...at least he's a first round value.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    I know this sounds counter-intuitive but just bear with me:

     

    1. Trade a 1st rder to NYGs for Victor Cruz. They have no money to really sign him long term and are sort of in a rebuilding on the fly mode now, so they may like this.

    2. Sign Abraham and don't sign Dumvervil. You can probably get him for no more than 4 mil per for the next 2 years, maybe less.

    3. Trade Ryan Mallett for no less than 3rd rd pick. I think BB can get a 2nd here, however.

    4. Hope Pitt can't match NE's tender to Emmanuel Sanders.

    5.. Trade back with your 2 2nd rders (the one you get in a Mallett deal), to get the 3rd rder back. So, you'd have no first rounder in this deep draft.

    So, you'd have a 2nd, 3rd and 4th to make your draft count.

    I guess my point is, how many more younger players do we really need in the next 2-3 years?

    Would it be that bad if BB treated this draft like the 2007 draft and addressed a final pass rushing piece in Abraham for 2 years, handled the Safety spot already and most importantly have WRs who you know have experience, good football IQ, can run routes from all spots and can be locked up on your own terms for the long term?

    You basically address all the spots you need to before the draft even happens, so the picks are now more seen as developmental players instead of players of need right away.

    Brady's WRs would be:

    Amendola, Cruz, Sanders, Jones and Slater.

    His TEs:  Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard

    That's a pretty ridiculous set of weapons and the key is the balance within their skill sets.

     



    I like this Idea better...

    Sign Dumervil  4 yrs 32m..7m cap hit this yr

    Trade your 1st this yr for a 3rd this yr and a 1st in 14

    Trade Mallett for a 2nd in 14, and a 4th this yr

    Give Pitt the 3rd this yr for Samuel

    Bring in Hayward bey on a 1 yr make good contract

     

    Draft o line depth with your picks this yr and get ready to cut Mankins after next yr

    Have 2 1st, n 2 nds in the 14 draft and ready to load up again

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    I know this sounds counter-intuitive but just bear with me:

     

    1. Trade a 1st rder to NYGs for Victor Cruz. They have no money to really sign him long term and are sort of in a rebuilding on the fly mode now, so they may like this.

    2. Sign Abraham and don't sign Dumvervil. You can probably get him for no more than 4 mil per for the next 2 years, maybe less.

    3. Trade Ryan Mallett for no less than 3rd rd pick. I think BB can get a 2nd here, however.

    4. Hope Pitt can't match NE's tender to Emmanuel Sanders.

    5.. Trade back with your 2 2nd rders (the one you get in a Mallett deal), to get the 3rd rder back. So, you'd have no first rounder in this deep draft.

    So, you'd have a 2nd, 3rd and 4th to make your draft count.

    I guess my point is, how many more younger players do we really need in the next 2-3 years?

    Would it be that bad if BB treated this draft like the 2007 draft and addressed a final pass rushing piece in Abraham for 2 years, handled the Safety spot already and most importantly have WRs who you know have experience, good football IQ, can run routes from all spots and can be locked up on your own terms for the long term?

    You basically address all the spots you need to before the draft even happens, so the picks are now more seen as developmental players instead of players of need right away.

    Brady's WRs would be:

    Amendola, Cruz, Sanders, Jones and Slater.

    His TEs:  Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard

    That's a pretty ridiculous set of weapons and the key is the balance within their skill sets.

     

     




    Interesting. Can't really argue, but how about this...

     

    Sign Dumervil, resign Lloyd and make sure the deal for Sanders comes through. I imagine the three of these deals will add up to 13 million or so (which is roughly what we have left). By doing this you add a pass rusher that is under 30 and productive. We get a experienced receiver in our system and a young one that has some of the potential that a young Deion Branch had. To me this will add the offensive pieces we need and yet still leave us with a first round pick.

    I'd try to get something in return for Mallett - let's say the football gods allow us to net a second rounder for him...I'd select a tackle to take over for Vollmer. I'd use the first rounder we still have to select one of the five defensive tackles that will go in the first round this year. With our other second round pick I'd select the best available player - and I don't care what position he plays - just don't reach for need. I'd even by open to selecting Carradine and waiting for his knee to heal up...at least he's a first round value.

     

     



     

     

    .

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Rusty, why do you do this.  You have a thread like this about Cruz but then in another thread today you pretty much bash someone saying Cruz isnt coming to NE.  If you don't think he is coming then why even post a thread like this?  You are all over the place, all the time.  Do you keep track of what you say around here?

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    I know this sounds counter-intuitive but just bear with me:

     

    1. Trade a 1st rder to NYGs for Victor Cruz. They have no money to really sign him long term and are sort of in a rebuilding on the fly mode now, so they may like this.

    2. Sign Abraham and don't sign Dumvervil. You can probably get him for no more than 4 mil per for the next 2 years, maybe less.

    3. Trade Ryan Mallett for no less than 3rd rd pick. I think BB can get a 2nd here, however.

    4. Hope Pitt can't match NE's tender to Emmanuel Sanders.

    5.. Trade back with your 2 2nd rders (the one you get in a Mallett deal), to get the 3rd rder back. So, you'd have no first rounder in this deep draft.

    So, you'd have a 2nd, 3rd and 4th to make your draft count.

    I guess my point is, how many more younger players do we really need in the next 2-3 years?

    Would it be that bad if BB treated this draft like the 2007 draft and addressed a final pass rushing piece in Abraham for 2 years, handled the Safety spot already and most importantly have WRs who you know have experience, good football IQ, can run routes from all spots and can be locked up on your own terms for the long term?

    You basically address all the spots you need to before the draft even happens, so the picks are now more seen as developmental players instead of players of need right away.

    Brady's WRs would be:

    Amendola, Cruz, Sanders, Jones and Slater.

    His TEs:  Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard

    That's a pretty ridiculous set of weapons and the key is the balance within their skill sets.

     

     



    I like this Idea better...

     

    Sign Dumervil  4 yrs 32m..7m cap hit this yr

    Trade your 1st this yr for a 3rd this yr and a 1st in 14

    Trade Mallett for a 2nd in 14, and a 4th this yr

    Give Pitt the 3rd this yr for Samuel

    Bring in Hayward bey on a 1 yr make good contract

     

    Draft o line depth with your picks this yr and get ready to cut Mankins after next yr

    Have 2 1st, n 2 nds in the 14 draft and ready to load up again

     




    Who is Samuel?

     



    He's a cross between Emmanual Sanders...And he's really good..lol

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    I think Cruz would do insane things in New England's offense. He is a prototypical patriots WR, I think he can play anywhere and succeed anywhere. 1500 + yards on 80 receptions in 2011 is very impressive!!!

     

    That being said, I am not sure I would want to give up a first, THEN sign a big contract also. IMO Cruz is >> Jennings and will probably want to be paid accordingly.  Also, we have quite a bit of money already invested in our Offensive skill positions with Gronk, Hern, Amendola and probably a 3 or so million a year contract to Sanders, that I think our best bet is to draft a young player and pay him his rookie deal.

     

    I wouldn't be mad at the move, just think it may lead to some holes in other areas bc of the cost.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    cruz is going to want (and get) something between Harvin and Jennings money. No way the Pats pay him that. Personally, i think he's kind of overrated as a product of playing in NY and having an entertaining personality.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    also how are the Giants rebuiding? they have a lot of talent on that roster and draft well every year. down year after superbowl but still a lot of good players.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Hmm you're right. I was just looking back and their 2011 draft was a disaster. 2010 was a home run with JPP obviously and linval joseph, and 2009 got them Hicks but basically nothing else. Too soon to judge last year but it doesnt seem like many standouts.


    Its funny, I often complain about our drafts, but a few years down the road when you compair them to other teams, they usually end up looking pretty good. Although Ras-I over jabaal sheard or brooks reed still stings.

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to artielang's comment:

    also how are the Giants rebuiding? they have a lot of talent on that roster and draft well every year. down year after superbowl but still a lot of good players.

     




    Rebuilding on the fly.  I agree they still have good talent, but losing so many key players after finishing .500 means they will be doing some tinkering in the upcoming seasons, hoping what they have will work.

    They're not going to announce it, just like Pitt or Baltimore, but when you start dropping key players you'd like to keep with no real cap space to get improvements, you're rebuilding on the fly.

    They don't draft as well as you think, either. That 2007 draft was a while ago.




     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    Problem with Cruz and Sanders is that in order to sign them and not have Giants/Steelers match you have to load up the first year cap number - so you are paying a premium, taking an outsized cap hit, and losing draft choices for players that have a 50/50 chance of being as effective as Lloyd, the guy you just cut to save 2.5M in cap.

    Sorry, but this just makes no sense to me.

    I would rather they spent the money on Edelman and Nelson than Sanders, and I would rather them spend the money on Abraham and another corner and Lloyd than on Cruz. And used their draft picks on college guys.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: What If BB Did This:

    If the Giants were willing to trade Cruz without having to match an offer sheet...do you really think the Patriots first round pick would be the best offer they could get?

     
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