What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

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    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012? : Jerod Mayo a wasted draft pick?  So the fact that he was defensive rookie of the year, and 1st team all pro in 2010 as well as a team captain makes him a wasted pick?  Seriously?  Look at the rest of the 1st round in that draft.  It isn't exactly loaded with superstars after pick 10.
    Posted by pcmIV


         You misread my post. I was referring to the picks in the secondary. Mayo, Spikes (if healthy), and Chung (if healthy...though he still has issues in coverage) turned out to be good picks.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

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    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012? : Of course he was disgruntled in MN and TN. He could have cared less about those teams. Saying he was no longer the same player at 33 is without substance. You cannot put Moss in the same category as those two. We're talking about the 2nd best receiver in history hands down and the most talented ever.
    Posted by BabeParilli


         Yes...he was great...in the past. But, we're not dealing with the past, are we? He was done at 33...and you're talking jive, if you think he's the answer at age 35.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    If you want to set the order of need you have to look at why we lost games when we lost them last year and how another year is changing the existing roster.

    Wes is of course key. I do not think Koppen is key. I would like to see Light play one more year in part because I am concerned about VOllmer's ability to stay on the field. But we have three non starters who have enough quality to give solid depth without adding anyone.

    Everyone here watched and saw the D play poorly in many games and in many key series. It took a jump forward when they released Haynesworth. They played better late in the season and in the playoffs. But they were not GOOD. Let me define good in one simple way that doesnt get us in to an arguement over what stat to emphasize: a GOOD D steps up and makes the plays at key moments in a game, especially late, and stops the opposing O giving our O the ball back. It doesn't matter whether sacks, turnovers or whatever was the way they did it. The key is simply that they did it. This D did not stop the Ravens at the end of the playoff game. The D did not stop the Giants at the end of the SuperBowl. And the play during those drives was not unusual for its mediocrity but rather more typical.

    Before we start arguing O v D I didn't say whose fault the almost loss to the Ravens or loss to the Giants was. I was focused on the D. ... so let me continue.

    The D could use help at every level. The line, OLB, CB, S... pass rush and turnovers... What I think they need most are bonifide playmakers who CAN deliver big plays and critical times against the best teams. So UPGRADES in any position will be helpfull. If I were to be brave and get specific about exactly what I think they should get I would say:
    #1-3 (order is flexible depending on talent available via draft or FA):
      - 3 down DE that can stop the run AND bring (at least) a solid pass rush. Someone who can ANCHOR their side. If the Pats want to go 4-3 then the guy has to fit that. If they would prefer 3-4 then they need a guy who fits that.
     - 3 down OLB that can set the edge/stop the run AND bring (at least) a solid pass rush . Someone who can ANCHOR their side. If the Pats want to go 4-3 then the guy has to fit that. If they prefer 3-4 then they need a guy who fits that.
     - A S or a CB that can lock down defense of some element of the opponents passing game. A really good cover CB would be nice. But so would a really really good FS who can deliver big time help deep and all over the field.

    #4 another upgrade at a DB position.

    A great player at any position - including DT or NT would be very very welcome.

    On O there is no secret that signing Welker is important and getting 1 OR EVEN 2 WRs that can play in this O with some speed is important. How does this stack up with the D needs? Well, certainly the WR issue becomes mision critical if they do not have Welker. And there is NO question they should be bring at least 2 if not 4 people in to try to generate some play at the other WR position. But unless there is a WR who you are CONVINCED is the right guy (and no, you can never be SURE.. we are talking about your impressions in advance, not hindsight) I believe you take care of D.

    If you want to take some pressure OFF Brady, if you want to make this team a winner that can weather a bad play, bad series or bad game from Brady then you HAVE TO take care of the D.

    BB took care of the TE position in spectacular fashion in one season: Crumpler, Grank, Hernandez. Crumpler is gone but he was a big help when he was here and the other two give the Pats THE BEST TE CORP EVER. And I've been watching for 50 years.

    BB took care of the O line in two years bringing in Vollmer, Solder (I think we are going to love this guy to death) and Canon. He also added depth with Connolly being starting caliber. Without O line you die. Doesn't matter who the QB or RB is. BB took care of this BIG TIME. Maybe not the MOST dominant OL but good in the running game, better in the passing game, coachable and few mistakes.....

    BB took care of the RBs quickly. Ridley looks like he is a keeper if he can take care of the football. I still think Vereen will be the gem. BJGE and/or Woodhead both add some really key qualities. Losing one or both however can be easily addressed.

    BB took care of the ILB position: Mayo and more recently Spikes.

    I think he is approaching offseasons lately thinking about what AREA of the team to lock down. By doing that he might not cover all weaknesses but by making at least one existing weakness a strength the rest of the team can rely on it and covering up remaining weaknesses becomes easier!!! It is an interesting approach if he in fact is thinking this way.

    I expect he will take care of either the edges of the front 7 (DE and/or OLB) or the secondary. I think, unless there is a stud that just falls and falls to us in the 1st round or unless a FA will come here without breaking the bank he will sign Welker and bring in a couple of guys with the POTENTIAL to fix the other WR problem. But by really taking care of one part of the D and possibly upgrading another part of the D he will in effect take rpessure off Brady and the O. And rightly so.

    This team started really forming two years ago when they went from not having much at TE to having an amazing trio and now the Dynamic Duo (you know which one is Batman but it does seem under valuing Aaron to think of him as Robin). With the ongoing evolution of this team D is in line to take a meaningful step forward. If it does welcome back to the Ty Law/Willie McGinest type of Pats team that truly wins games three ways.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

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    If you want to set the order of need you have to look at why we lost games when we lost them last year and how another year is changing the existing roster. Wes is of course key. I do not think Koppen is key. I would like to see Light play one more year in part because I am concerned about VOllmer's ability to stay on the field. But we have three non starters who have enough quality to give solid depth without adding anyone. Everyone here watched and saw the D play poorly in many games and in many key series. It took a jump forward when they released Haynesworth. They played better late in the season and in the playoffs. But they were not GOOD. Let me define good in one simple way that doesnt get us in to an arguement over what stat to emphasize: a GOOD D steps up and makes the plays at key moments in a game, especially late, and stops the opposing O giving our O the ball back. It doesn't matter whether sacks, turnovers or whatever was the way they did it. The key is simply that they did it. This D did not stop the Ravens at the end of the playoff game. The D did not stop the Giants at the end of the SuperBowl. And the play during those drives was not unusual for its mediocrity but rather more typical. Before we start arguing O v D I didn't say whose fault the almost loss to the Ravens or loss to the Giants was. I was focused on the D. ... so let me continue. The D could use help at every level. The line, OLB, CB, S... pass rush and turnovers... What I think they need most are bonifide playmakers who CAN deliver big plays and critical times against the best teams. So UPGRADES in any position will be helpfull. If I were to be brave and get specific about exactly what I think they should get I would say: #1-3 (order is flexible depending on talent available via draft or FA):   - 3 down DE that can stop the run AND bring (at least) a solid pass rush. Someone who can ANCHOR their side. If the Pats want to go 4-3 then the guy has to fit that. If they would prefer 3-4 then they need a guy who fits that.  - 3 down OLB that can set the edge/stop the run AND bring (at least) a solid pass rush . Someone who can ANCHOR their side. If the Pats want to go 4-3 then the guy has to fit that. If they prefer 3-4 then they need a guy who fits that.  - A S or a CB that can lock down defense of some element of the opponents passing game. A really good cover CB would be nice. But so would a really really good FS who can deliver big time help deep and all over the field. #4 another upgrade at a DB position. A great player at any position - including DT or NT would be very very welcome. On O there is no secret that signing Welker is important and getting 1 OR EVEN 2 WRs that can play in this O with some speed is important. How does this stack up with the D needs? Well, certainly the WR issue becomes mision critical if they do not have Welker. And there is NO question they should be bring at least 2 if not 4 people in to try to generate some play at the other WR position. But unless there is a WR who you are CONVINCED is the right guy (and no, you can never be SURE.. we are talking about your impressions in advance, not hindsight) I believe you take care of D. If you want to take some pressure OFF Brady, if you want to make this team a winner that can weather a bad play, bad series or bad game from Brady then you HAVE TO take care of the D. BB took care of the TE position in spectacular fashion in one season: Crumpler, Grank, Hernandez. Crumpler is gone but he was a big help when he was here and the other two give the Pats THE BEST TE CORP EVER. And I've been watching for 50 years. BB took care of the O line in two years bringing in Vollmer, Solder (I think we are going to love this guy to death) and Canon. He also added depth with Connolly being starting caliber. Without O line you die. Doesn't matter who the QB or RB is. BB took care of this BIG TIME. Maybe not the MOST dominant OL but good in the running game, better in the passing game, coachable and few mistakes..... BB took care of the RBs quickly. Ridley looks like he is a keeper if he can take care of the football. I still think Vereen will be the gem. BJGE and/or Woodhead both add some really key qualities. Losing one or both however can be easily addressed. BB took care of the ILB position: Mayo and more recently Spikes. I think he is approaching offseasons lately thinking about what AREA of the team to lock down. By doing that he might not cover all weaknesses but by making at least one existing weakness a strength the rest of the team can rely on it and covering up remaining weaknesses becomes easier!!! It is an interesting approach if he in fact is thinking this way. I expect he will take care of either the edges of the front 7 (DE and/or OLB) or the secondary. I think, unless there is a stud that just falls and falls to us in the 1st round or unless a FA will come here without breaking the bank he will sign Welker and bring in a couple of guys with the POTENTIAL to fix the other WR problem. But by really taking care of one part of the D and possibly upgrading another part of the D he will in effect take rpessure off Brady and the O. And rightly so. This team started really forming two years ago when they went from not having much at TE to having an amazing trio and now the Dynamic Duo (you know which one is Batman but it does seem under valuing Aaron to think of him as Robin). With the ongoing evolution of this team D is in line to take a meaningful step forward. If it does welcome back to the Ty Law/Willie McGinest type of Pats team that truly wins games three ways.
    Posted by portfolio1


         Welker is not a WR. He's a slot receiver. He's not a deep threat. The Pats need one. They have absolutely nothing at the WR position.

         In 2007, the Pats had no receivers. BB went out and fixed that by trading draft choices for Welker and Moss...and get Donte' Stallworth through free agency. Lets' see how he attacks the problem this year.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    Good Post Portfolio!
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    I feel you Bobbsyu, I too feel T.B. needs help. Your Qb shouldnt be throwing for more yards the older he gets. At his age, a good defense and running game should be his best friends.

    The way the Pats are playcalling now, T.B. may only be around a couple more years.

    Every year he is hurt by time the playoffs start.

    Run more in the regular season instead of trying to break records.

    And no, I dont agree w/Rusty. I know its B.B. wanting to pass so much cuz he knows our defense s ucks.

    One hand washes the other.
     
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    I feel you Bobbsyu, I too feel T.B. needs help. Your Qb shouldnt be throwing for more yards the older he gets. At his age, a good defense and running game should be his best friends. The way the Pats are playcalling now, T.B. may only be around a couple more years. Every year he is hurt by time the playoffs start. Run more in the regular season instead of trying to break records. And no, I dont agree w/Rusty. I know its B.B. wanting to pass so much cuz he knows our defense s ucks. One hand washes the other.
    Posted by JayShizzle45


         You can wish that the Patriots will run the ball more all you want. But, opposing defenses are playing their safeties closer to the line of scrimmage, because they know that the Patriots don't have a legitimate deep threat who can make them pay. Consequently, the Pats are running against eight, and sometimes nine in the box. This makes it much harder to establish the run.  
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    It'll be interesting to how S.R. and S.V. come along. Pats fans will be talking about our drafts under BB for years to come , long after he's gone.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    Tex, when have you seen teams creep up an extra defender in the box to stop our running game??


    I dont recall this too much, if they do move up its to defend the short passing game.

    You can get a deep threat just to do it, and have him run 9's all day, but if you dont complete the deep ball at a high percentage, they will keep him single covered.

    The only REAL way to take advantage of a defense and make them commit the extra defender is to establish a bruising ground game. Wether that be more running, or just running with better personell. I dont know.

    I DO know Football and Dont know why everyone wants to change the game.

    You get the safeties in the box to stop the run and THEN you can go deep and its over the top after getting BEHIND the defense.

    Just running deep routes without a run game isnt gonna cut it. You have a guy in mind Tex?  A guy that can get deep and beat cover 2 defense thats designed to take away big plays???


    Desean Jackson may be the only guy that can do that.

     
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    Tex, when have you seen teams creep up an extra defender in the box to stop our running game?? I dont recall this too much, if they do move up its to defend the short passing game.

    RESPONSE: They do it primarily to stop the short pass attack. But, it has the dual benefit of being effective against the run. Check out the stats of BJGE and Danny Woodhead in 2010. That year, teams didn't really cheat up they safeties until the Jets did in the playoff loss. But now, more teams are doing it...and the stats for BJGE and Woodhead have dwindled.

    . The only REAL way to take advantage of a defense and make them commit the extra defender is to establish a bruising ground game. Wether that be more running, or just running with better personell.
     
    RESPONSE: Again, teams are bringing their safeties in the box, primarily to stop the Pats' short pass attack. The REAL way to take advantage of such a defense is to have a burner on the outside who can make them pay. That in turn will result in opposing safeties playing honest...deep. This will help the rushing attack. 

    I dont know. I DO know Football and Dont know why everyone wants to change the game. You get the safeties in the box to stop the run and THEN you can go deep and its over the top after getting BEHIND the defense. Just running deep routes without a run game isnt gonna cut it.
     
    RESPONSE: Once the safeties have to drop back, the dink and dunk is nearly unstoppable...and running the ball on draw players and delayed hand-offs are highly successful. BJGE rushed for 1008 yards in 2010, and Woodhead averaged 5.6 yards per carry. But, in 2011, Bennie had just 667 yards rushing (3.7 yards per carry, as opposed to 4.4 the year before), and Woodhead average per carry dropped to 4.6.    

    You have a guy in mind Tex?  A guy that can get deep and beat cover 2 defense thats designed to take away big plays??? Desean Jackson may be the only guy that can do that.

    RESPONSE: Vincent Jackson is also capable, and Pierre Garcon is an ascending WR.
    Posted by JayShizzle45
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    Tex, I do like V.J. although he has D.U.I. issues I believe. I like Garcon despite his case of the dropsies, but I dont either are an option. 

    The Colts will let Wayne walk and keep Garcon as their future # 1. The Pats had a chance at V.J. and didnt follow through so its doubtful.

    I think me and you want the same thing, we are just looking to do it in different ways and both ways are effective so I dont want you to think Im dismissing the "deep threat" but just like you said "why keep asking to run more" I could ask of some here "why keep asking for a deep threat" ?

    1.) we dont pass deep much as we arent that good at it.
    2.) lack of deep threats available to us outside of Moss....(please no)
    3.) We have been a horizontal attacking team the last 2 years


    I feel my Cry for more running is an easier, simpler fix without tweaking the offense too much. I wouldnt break the bank for a one dimensional flyer and the ones we had did nothing. Tate?  How many deep balls he catch? How about Price?

    Thats not our game. Now I dont mind an all around WR who can do it all. Then when you need a big play, you go playaction and get it to your guy.

    I feel R.Wayne could fill that void here for 2 years. Outside of Wayne, its get scketchy as not every guy can come here and have success. I give the nod the Wayne only because he played with Peyton, the closest thing to a perfectionist like Brady.

    I dont want ANY of the supposed Draft Stars like Stephen Hill or anyone. Who knows if they would ever see the field. Our passing game is good as long as we mix in runs and dont force it to Gronk.

    We need an established Run Game and better playmakers on "D" iMo

     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?


    When we talk about wideouts, we tend to think deep threats, but it's not just a guy who can take the top off the defense we need.  In fact, probably more important is a bigger target who can win battles with corners and safeties along the sidelines.  Somebody like David Givens would help a lot. 

     
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    Tex, read this exchange from a reader and Mike Reiss' response. In essence he is saying what I am trying to say. I would love to have a Legit outside WR that does it all and commands attention to players dont flud the middle, but just a "deep threat" we had in Randy and when you double him, its game over. We need a more versatile threat that cant be doubled easily. If you have only a few routes, thats what happens. The burner in this years class. Stephen Hill has 2 routes he can run.



    I'm a diehard Saints fan, but I'm a bigger football fan and I enjoy watching other successful teams and seeing how they operate. My question is about the deep threat that the Patriots supposedly need. They finished third in points scored and Tom Bradythrew for the second-most yards all time in a single season. They have two of the top six tight ends in the league and in my opinion the best slot receiver in the league. Why do they need the deep threat so badly? If I was Belichick, I would use his first six picks on pass rushers, corner or safety, and a running back. Do you really think you need to spend a high draft pick on someone whose main specialty is to run a 9 route or a deep post? -- Chris (Philadelphia)

    A. Nice to have an outside perspective, Chris, so thanks for chiming in. There is no denying the production, and you lay it out there nicely. I think it comes down to the desire of being able to attack and have defenses respect all three levels of the field with diverse targets. In my view, it's not so much a deep threat that the Patriots need, but an outside-the-numbers presence that the opposition has to respect so it can't focus so much on the other weapons. It's just adding another layer to defend. It sort of reminds me of the Bill Belichick documentary in which Belichick is meeting with his coaching staff and explaining that if defenses play over the top of Randy Moss and clamp down on Wes Welker, the offense has little else to get it going.

     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    Pro, you are right. Gives would be Ideal.

    Big, not super fast, but can get open due to his superior route running and strentgh to push off subtly.

    He was great at double moves but not the ones where you go deep, but the one where you fake and pump and go and then come back.

    He killed Ricky Manning with this in SB 38.

    We need that again!
     
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    Pro, you are right. Gives would be Ideal. Big, not super fast, but can get open due to his superior route running and strentgh to push off subtly. He was great at double moves but not the ones where you go deep, but the one where you fake and pump and go and then come back. He killed Ricky Manning with this in SB 38. We need that again!
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    I'd like to see the backs involved more in the passing game too.  What I'd really love to see is a guy who is a reasonable running threat on typical first- and second-down running plays but who also has good hands, can run screens, and be a threat as an outlet receiver.  Woodhead sort of plays that role for us now, but I guess I'd like to see an upgrade at that position.   
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

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    When we talk about wideouts, we tend to think deep threats, but it's not just a guy who can take the top off the defense we need.  In fact, probably more important is a bigger target who can win battles with corners and safeties along the sidelines.  Somebody like David Givens would help a lot. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    +1.

    A 7th round pick at that.  I keep saying I'd be happy with the next David Givens at WR.  A physical WR, who if you don't wrap him up will burn you.  People constantly forget about him when they say the Pats haven't developed a WR since Branch.
    If the Pats had to go the FA route for a WR my vote would be for Steve Johnson, another 7th round pick for Buffalo.  He's a little immature, but that can be addressed.  He has come up big against the Pats and Revis.  I'm sure BB has noticed, much like he did when he snagged WW.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    Pro, I dont think the offense needs much tweaking personell wise, but Id like to see an approach from years past.

    1st of all, last year was a breakout year for Gronk and Brady basically admitted a few times that he got spoiled by having Gronk open and in his line of sight first. He said he DID miss an open Ocho at times because his progressions never lead him to look outside and as long as Gronk was getting open, why look anywhere else. By seasons end, even Wes wasnt getting his 8 catches a game anymore. All that was fine until he got hurt. Now you are screwed and you cant change your gameplan too much on the fly. I am hoping an offseason of evaluation will WAKE everyone up.


    LAst year was the lowest total for catches by a RB in the B.B.. era. Did they forget how to catch???  No, Brady stopped looking for them. If you start spreading the ball again by hitting the check downs. Give Ocho more than 3 snaps a game. Run maybe just 3 to 4 more times a game. Watch how much that can change things.

    Gronk, Hernandez, Wes are the Foundation. You compliment that with Vareen out the backfield. Ocho on comeback routes(assuming he is here)

    Sign Wayne and let him beat up guys underneath for first down. Groom Underwood to be a threat outside and get another blocking TE for insurance as you cant carry 2 again , esp. with #81 being a big WR.

    Problem solved. I would still like to upgrade the RB spot. I dont care for Woody and Benny anymore. They both have skills, but neither put fear into defenses. Guys will never tire from tackling Woody.
     
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    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    In Response to What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?:
         Every year, I prepare a mock draft in order to familiarize myself with the needs of every NFL team, the college prospect available through the draft, and to get some idea as to who will be available for the Patriots when their selection spots come up. Though I'm a believer in the Pats' choosing the best player available to them, rather than fill needs, it's helpful to know what what their needs are. Here's my opinion of the teams' greatest needs: 1.) WR: Though other positions are deemed more vital to a team (QB, OL, DL), and rightfully so, the Patriots are so pitiful at WR that a complete overhaul of their corp is needed. No...this does not include Wes Welker, who is an inside slot man. Folks, the Patriots have nothing at this position. Though this is a somewhat simplistic, the better teams have been beating the Patriots over the past few years by playing their safeties close to the line of scrimmage, and daring the Pats to throw deep. Doing this has made it harder for the Pats to successfully establish the run, and has made it much more difficult to dink and dunk the ball down-field.       As I have discussed in great detail in previous posts, the Pats have failed miserably in finding help at this position through the draft...and have wasted several high draft choices in the process. Nor does the answer lie in patching the problem with relics...as we've seen with Joey Galloway, the 33 year old version of Randy Moss, and, most recently, Chad Ochocinco.      Therefore, I look for the Patriots to make a couple of moves through free agency. I don't want the 33 going on 34 year old Reggie Wayne. To me, the Pats would be repeating a mistake by going this route. Plus, is the past his prime Wayne the deep threat that the Patriots need?       Guys like Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, and Pierre Garcon appeal to me. But Wallace probably will end up being franchised somehow by the Steelers, as will DeSean Jackson by Philly. That leaves Vincent Jackson and Garcon available. Of the two, I'd prefer Jackson. But...is the 29 year old WR's prime focus on getting paid, or on winning a championship? Unlike Wallace or D. Jackson, he'd cost the team nothing in compensation. Garcon is just 26, and is an ascending player.      As for you Brandon Lloyd lovers, he's 31 years old, and has had just one big season. I question whether he's the deep threat that the Patriots' need. Furthermore, if he wanted to join Josh McDaniels so bad in New England, why did he hire agent Tom Condon, who BB loathes, to represent him?   2.) OL: Job one on this team remains to serve and protect an aging Tom Brady. The Pats must bring in a young, talented OG/C to solidify their OL. They got very lucky with 34 year old RG Brian Waters last year. He's talking retirement. Dan Koppen is 33 years old, and has been injury prone over the past few years. Dan Connelly has played well, but seems better suited in a reserve role; 3.) DL: Vince Wilfolk enjoyed his finest season last year. But, at age 30, the Pats' "Dancing Bear" needs some help. DE Brandon Deaderick and DT Kyle Love made strides last year. But, a young Richard Seymour type is needed. ; 4.) Safety: Though some would place this position as a higher need, unlike at WR, the Pats have something there. There just needs to be an upgrade; 5.) OLB/DE:  The duo of Andre Carter and Mark Anderson significantly improved the Pats ability to rush the passer last year. But, both Carter and Anderson are UFAs. Carter is old, and coming off a serious leg injury. Anderson must be resigned. A young stud pass-rusher is needed...though the red-shirted Markell Carter could be waiting in the wings.             
    Posted by TexasPat

    Hi Tex, I agree with you about receiver.
    I also see DE as a position they need to upgrade. Theoretically speaking DE is the most important position in the 4-3 alignment.
    DE is supposed to be that one skill position you overpay for in the 4-3.
    That said BB made the switch to 4-3 without the right players for that impact position and the defense struggled in other ways to compensate for a sporadic pass rush.
    If BB wants to stick with the 4-3 than with one move he could bring in a stud that would have more impact on defensive success than any of the other positions.
    The Colts ran the 4-3 within the cover 2 system framework for years with Freeny and Mathis providing more than enough fire power at that position to make up for argumentatively 9 other JAGs.
    Its clear to me thats where they need some help.
    Personally I don't like seeing Brady throw bombs anymore although opposing defenses do especially in the playoffs.
    A receiver to take the top off is one thing but that receiver needs to be willing to go over the middle and at least catch the ball and dive a la Branch or else become another YAC threat.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    To fix the defense. Tom proved this year his play isn't going to drop anytime soon and showed his body is going to fare well into his late 30s. 

    If we want to add another ring to the collection we gotta build the defense up. Tom and the line will be fine Dante and Bill have proven that. A WR will come we will need to pursue it but it shouldn't be the major priority. Its almost like te cute fan attraction point. Our offense is totally fine with Wes, Gronk and Herandez we just need some better young depth as Tate and Price both failed.  

    Get a defense that can end the fight they start. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?:
    Tex, I do like V.J. although he has D.U.I. issues I believe. I like Garcon despite his case of the dropsies, but I dont either are an option.  The Colts will let Wayne walk and keep Garcon as their future # 1. The Pats had a chance at V.J. and didnt follow through so its doubtful.
     
    RESPONSE: What do you mean that the Pats "had a chance" at him? They still do. Incidently, star WR Michael Floyd also has "DWI issues". But, Jackson is 29 years old now, and appears to have grown up. The only question I have with him is, is he interested in winning championships, or in just getting paid?

    I think me and you want the same thing, we are just looking to do it in different ways and both ways are effective so I dont want you to think Im dismissing the "deep threat" but just like you said "why keep asking to run more" I could ask of some here "why keep asking for a deep threat" ?
     
    RESPONSE: You're not going to be succesful running against a consistent 8 or 9 in the box.

    1.) we dont pass deep much as we arent that good at it.
     
    RESPONSE: Brady didn't have troubles throwing deep in 2007, when he had Randy Moss.

    2.) lack of deep threats available to us outside of Moss....(please no)
     
    RESPONSE: There are deep threats available through both free agency, and the draft;

    3.) We have been a horizontal attacking team the last 2 years I feel my Cry for more running is an easier, simpler fix without tweaking the offense too much. I wouldnt break the bank for a one dimensional flyer and the ones we had did nothing. Tate?  How many deep balls he catch? How about Price? Thats not our game.
     
    RESPONSE: Both Tate and Price were bad picks...and busts. Mike Wallace went one pick after Tate. Again, check the RB stats. Both Woodhead and BJGE are averaging about a yard less per carry in 2011, than they did in 2010. 

    Now I dont mind an all around WR who can do it all. Then when you need a big play, you go playaction and get it to your guy. I feel R.Wayne could fill that void here for 2 years. Outside of Wayne, its get scketchy as not every guy can come here and have success. I give the nod the Wayne only because he played with Peyton, the closest thing to a perfectionist like Brady.
     
    RESPONSE: No! All these 33 year old or older has-beens have failed. 

    I dont want ANY of the supposed Draft Stars like Stephen Hill or anyone. Who knows if they would ever see the field. Our passing game is good as long as we mix in runs and dont force it to Gronk. We need an established Run Game and better playmakers on "D" iMo

    RESPONSE: The Pats aren't going to establish a run game unless and until they force defenses to play them honest.  
    Posted by JayShizzle45

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bubthegrub12. Show Bubthegrub12's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    I've stated my preference for defense. That being said, there's a lot of talk about the offense. I believe the "deep threat" is key. And I don't mean like Moss running down the sideline. But a big tall WR who can catch the ball in traffic. But fast enough to get behind the CBs, and force them to bring a safety back. That opens up space for Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez, and also for the running game. Not that they need to give the guy 80 catches, but be hitting on what they do throw. There are two guys in NO (Meachem and Colston) whom I believe are FA as well. Ridley may well be the "new" Kevin Faulk...if he holds onto the ball. That and a couple OL in the draft, and the rest of the offseason moves should go for the D.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?:
    Tex, read this exchange from a reader and Mike Reiss' response. In essence he is saying what I am trying to say. I would love to have a Legit outside WR that does it all and commands attention to players dont flud the middle, but just a "deep threat" we had in Randy and when you double him, its game over. We need a more versatile threat that cant be doubled easily. If you have only a few routes, thats what happens. The burner in this years class. Stephen Hill has 2 routes he can run. I'm a diehard Saints fan, but I'm a bigger football fan and I enjoy watching other successful teams and seeing how they operate. My question is about the deep threat that the Patriots supposedly need. They finished third in points scored and  Tom Brady threw for the second-most yards all time in a single season. They have two of the top six tight ends in the league and in my opinion the best slot receiver in the league. Why do they need the deep threat so badly? If I was Belichick, I would use his first six picks on pass rushers, corner or safety, and a running back. Do you really think you need to spend a high draft pick on someone whose main specialty is to run a 9 route or a deep post? -- Chris (Philadelphia) A.  Nice to have an outside perspective, Chris, so thanks for chiming in. There is no denying the production, and you lay it out there nicely. I think it comes down to the desire of being able to attack and have defenses respect all three levels of the field with diverse targets. In my view, it's not so much a deep threat that the Patriots need, but an outside-the-numbers presence that the opposition has to respect so it can't focus so much on the other weapons. It's just adding another layer to defend. It sort of reminds me of the Bill Belichick documentary in which Belichick is meeting with his coaching staff and explaining that if defenses play over the top of  Randy Moss  and clamp down on Wes Welker, the offense has little else to get it going.
    Posted by JayShizzle45


         What is an "outside-the-numbers presence" that the opposition must respect? Something outside-the-numbers to me refers to something different...that the opposition must respect. The Pats already have the short and intermediate types of receivers. What they lack is a home run hitter. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?:
    In Response to Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012? : +1. A 7th round pick at that.  I keep saying I'd be happy with the next David Givens at WR.  A physical WR, who if you don't wrap him up will burn you.  People constantly forget about him when they say the Pats haven't developed a WR since Branch. If the Pats had to go the FA route for a WR my vote would be for Steve Johnson, another 7th round pick for Buffalo.  He's a little immature, but that can be addressed.  He has come up big against the Pats and Revis.  I'm sure BB has noticed, much like he did when he snagged WW.
    Posted by nyjoseph


         A young Deion Branch would be better.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from millergrnv. Show millergrnv's posts

    Re: What Is Pats' Most Pressing Need in 2012?

    We know that the Defense needs to be improved overall from stopping the run, rushing the passer, and covering on the back part of the defense, that is obvious. As you listed at #1, Wide Receiver has to be overhauled. Do we need a reminder of the busts at wide receiver (Bethel Johnson (2003), Chad Jackson (2006), Brandon Tate (2009) and Taylor Price (2010) over the years. I was hoping that Brandon Tate and Taylor Price would work out, but it just didn't work. Tate couldn't catch on to the offense and for Taylor Price, the NCAA graduation rule put him behind and he couldn't catch up. Since Deion Branch and David Givens, the wide receiver positon (Out side of Wes) has been absolute garbage. This team needs playmakers that can stretch the football field at the wide receiver position. What would help even more if they had size and speed to boot.
     
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