what is the running game over past 11 years?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : [QUOTE ]Look at how teams defend us, they play nickel and dime, becuz they know we have a great passing attack AND that we WONT consistently run the ball enough to make them pay for playing all those dbs in the game. Also great point above about taking brady from under the center and constantly being in shotgun, the guy is a master at the play action pass, the most frustrating thing is seeing a 3rd and short situation and we go empty set, basically telling the defense we are not running it.  You have to make defenses guess, we have been doing that less and less over the years and you would think with brady getting older they would try to slow down the pass rush and not put as much pressure on tom but weve been doing the complete opposite. Hopefully ridley can hold on to the ball, becuz hes def more explosive than bjge was. Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE] Absolutely 100% correct. Teams have cheated toward the pass, any fan here would admit that I would hope. They do it because we will never consistently run. That is fact. We have ran the ball 3 times in a row twice that I can remember the last 3 seasons. Brady is now 35, to continue with this pass happy offense is ill advised. If any here would dispute that then they must know something about 35 year old QB's that the rest of us don't.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely wrong.

    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

    This is misinformation. 

    Teams don't go into nickel and dime based on tendencies.... this really IS football 101. 

    They go into nickel and dime to match personell, aka, to cover the "Y" reciever or TE. 

    You want less nickel and dime ... use two runningbacks and take Welker or Hernandez off the field. 

    Running more often will NOT make someone send an extra LBer out there and leave Wes Welker uncovered. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Never mind the obvious, in fact unmissable fact, that everyone of those superbowl offenses also cycled through 3&outs, turned the ball over, etc. Heck in a "per drive" performance, this year's offense actually outperformed the offense from 2001 by streets, and 2003 as well. They scored more per drive. They used more time per drive IIRC. They were just more efficient all around.  The difference is that they didn't have an extra four or five drives to score with.  The difference was that there was a dominant defense there to bail them out.  I reject the premise because the most casual observation of what actually happened was the the offense was about the same in total production, but the defense made plays as well, and got the offense some short fields, or got it two tries in a row after a 3 & out. Running won't fix that. A three and out running breathes the defense the exact same as a 3 & out passing. The same 3 & out in 2001 offers the same rest as one in 2012.  The difference is the players on the defense and their ability to make some plays. I mean really.  It can't be said enough .... if football were that simplistic running = winning ... don't you think the "genius" Bill Belichik would have figured it out by now? Really? A handful of people on a forum know football better than Bill Belichik? And the latter should go to football 101?  Sigh. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    See, this is why you are good. You make sense. You provide facts and reason for your conclusions. It is like an oasis in a desert. Going over and over and over the same old tired cliches that people pass off here as football knowledge is excruciating. Half the people here when confronted with undeniable facts will immediately cling to some obscure point and let that suffice to vanquish the fact they were just presented. In lieu of having even an obscure point to cling to they will mostly just ignore the fact.

    You know the game. You and a few others remind me football sanity still exists.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : [QUOTE ]Look at how teams defend us, they play nickel and dime, becuz they know we have a great passing attack AND that we WONT consistently run the ball enough to make them pay for playing all those dbs in the game. Also great point above about taking brady from under the center and constantly being in shotgun, the guy is a master at the play action pass, the most frustrating thing is seeing a 3rd and short situation and we go empty set, basically telling the defense we are not running it.  You have to make defenses guess, we have been doing that less and less over the years and you would think with brady getting older they would try to slow down the pass rush and not put as much pressure on tom but weve been doing the complete opposite. Hopefully ridley can hold on to the ball, becuz hes def more explosive than bjge was. Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Absolutely 100% correct. Teams have cheated toward the pass, any fan here would admit that I would hope. They do it because we will never consistently run. That is fact. We have ran the ball 3 times in a row twice that I can remember the last 3 seasons. Brady is now 35, to continue with this pass happy offense is ill advised. If any here would dispute that then they must know something about 35 year old QB's that the rest of us don't.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Listen to zbellino. He's trying to teach you. He knows the game. You haven't a clue.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

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    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]and I am saying your dismissal of the suceess in 07 and 11 is cherry picking   If you look at the 06 game the D could not hold a 21 point lead; in 09 they got run out of the stadium in a disgraceful defensive performance.  The "balance" you love to talk about is not statistically meaningful.  The PS failures could just as easily have been success in 07 and 11 and we would not be talking a dynasty again. you take 06 as a success; I consider it a dismal failure compared to 07 and 11
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    Explain how the balance that I talk about is not"statically meaningful"? I just showed you that we scored more points with less offensive talent in 01,03,04,and 06 due to a balanced scheme. I took the numbers off of your post!

     In 07 and this year with supreme offensive talent but a 1 dimensional scheme we scored less points and have averaged 15.5 ppg in those 2 SB's.

    These are facts not opinions. Read the box scores. In 2003 Antwoin Smith carried the ball 28 times for 3.5 ypc but we scored 32 points against a GREAT defensive line because we were balanced.


    You can say that balance is not important because you say so, but the fact remains it is.

    And anybody that says 2006 was a failure with the WORST offense ever put on a Tom Brady lead team is just delusional. Sorry but 06 may have been Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's finest jobs to date. Severely over acheived. I'm sorry they didn't put up record passing yards for the FF rosters out there but they absolutely impressed.

    Brady did less with more because why???????? They had balance and nobody knew what they would do.





































     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

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    [QUOTE]"My view is that when you've got one of the best play-action faking QBs in NFL history, he's got to be under center more often and in the shotgun less" "That's the big difference to me. It's not the number of attempts, but the way they make those attempts . " I completely agree Hardright. You have a habit of summing things up.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    +1
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : [QUOTE ] Teams have cheated toward the pass, any fan here would admit that I would hope. They do it because we will never consistently run.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Wrong again. Any cheating toward the pass is NOT because we don't run enough. It's because our passing game is death to them and our running game is a sanctuary from the death of our passing attack. They're glad when we run!

    Would you rather be shot with a 12 gage shotgun, or a pea shooter?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Absolutely 100% correct. Teams have cheated toward the pass, any fan here would admit that I would hope. They do it because we will never consistently run. That is fact. We have ran the ball 3 times in a row twice that I can remember the last 3 seasons. Brady is now 35, to continue with this pass happy offense is ill advised. If any here would dispute that then they must know something about 35 year old QB's that the rest of us don't. Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE] Absolutely wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.  This is misinformation.  Teams don't go into nickel and dime based on tendencies.... this really IS football 101.  They go into nickel and dime to match personell, aka, to cover the "Y" reciever or TE.  You want less nickel and dime ... use two runningbacks and take Welker or Hernandez off the field.  Running more often will NOT make someone send an extra LBer out there and leave Wes Welker uncovered. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    You are trying to tell me that in order to counter the 5-6 DB defensive sets that we need to "take Welker or Hernandez off the field" and have TWO RB's in the game? Ok Z. No agenda there hey mate? 

    How about We have a power back in the game with Branch,WW,Gronk and Hernandez, then when DC's send out 5-6 DB's AS THEY DID ALL SEASON we run the ball down their throats?

    Tell me why that would not work? Becuase it did work whenever we used it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Listen to zbellino. He's trying to teach you. He knows the game. You haven't a clue.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    babe let the big boys talk and go troll on 1 of your current 5 trolling threads. Underdog.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Wrong again . Any cheating toward the pass is NOT because we don't run enough. It's because our passing game is death to them and our running game is a sanctuary from the death of our passing attack. They're glad when we run! Would you rather be shot with a 12 gage shotgun, or a pea shooter?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    This is priceless. So they don't cheat toward the pass because we don't run enough, they cheat toward the pass because we throw all the time. Thanks for participating today, as usual you contradict yourself at every opportunity.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : babe let the big boys talk and go troll on 1 of your current 5 trolling threads. Underdog.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    The big boys? You must be talking about your gut because you can't possibly be talking about your simpleton's understanding of football.

    Now I'm Underdog? You're right about that like you are right about BB not knowing as much as you regarding the potential of running more.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    If you notice many times the patriots play uptemp no huddle to prevent teams from matching personnel so a lot of times the defense HAS to play toward our tendencies (spread shotgun) becuz they dont have the time to see who we line up and then match it.  If you played the patriots why wouldnt you play a nickel and dime defense? you need the dbs simply to cover welker gronk hernandez ON EVERY DOWN, your not going to put safety and lb on those 3 reguardless , look at the jets they practically sit out bart scott the whole game becuz of this. Teams can play these defenses becuz they know at the end of the day we wont stick to the run and punish them ( LIKE THE FIRST GAME VS THE JETS LAST YEAR BJGE KILLED THEM, JETS COULDNT BELIEVE WE ACTUALLY STUCK TO THE RUN) and I think the most overlooked benefit is protecting your franchise qb by slowing down the pass rush. As well as keeping our defense off the field.
    Every team has adjusted their defense to how the browns and jet played us now its time for us to adjust to that defense.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Wrong . This is just so wrong.  Teams go into nickel and dime to match up with personell. Even if you have Walter Payton's torso on Barry Sanders' legs with a nuclear reactor core at RB ... if you bring a slot player on the field, the opponent will go into nickel formation to match up with the slot WR. How does this misinformation spread that teams go into nickel and dime because they don't respect the run? They go into nickel and dime because NE very frequently has an extra TE or WR on the field.  And nickel or dime is what matches up with that personell.  What ... do you honestly, I mean honestly, think that a few extra runs from BJGE would prompt a defense to put a linebacker on Wes Welker? Pardon my french here ... but that's f#cking nuts. If you are watching football and seeing defense formations, and thinking that they are based on opponents' tendencies, then you are watching it wrong.  The most, most that might happen is that you adjust the safeties to or away from the line, or the CBs the same, or assign linebackers a role. And in that regard .... the RBs on this team, BJGE in particular, have never been able to capitalize on the room they've gotten.  Personell dictates personell ... not what a team "thinks" a person is going to do. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I think you made the point that was trying to be originaly made although incorrectly.

    "The most, most that might happen is that you adjust the safeties to or away from the line, or the CBs the same, or assign linebackers a role. And in that regard .... the RBs on this team, BJGE in particular, have never been able to capitalize on the room they've gotten."

    The passing game sucess and running game sucess vary a considerable amount on personnel. Based on what you said above a better running back than BJGE will capatilize on the extra attention being paid the passing game and take advantage. Thus the extra attention will stop being paid and Brady and the rec will benefit. Just the fact the opposing D will hold a milisecond longer to diagnose pass vs run before they break or the RB will be a milisecond faster can result in a broken tackle or missed tipped ball at a crucial moment.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : This is priceless. So they don't cheat toward the pass because we don't run enough, they cheat toward the pass because we throw all the time. Thanks for participating today, as usual you contradict yourself at every opportunity.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    No genius. THEY CHEAT TOWARD THE PASS BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE RUN.

    Is it that hard for you to grasp that an opposing D is more afraid of what Brady can do to them than what BJGE can do to them?

    What is wrong with you? You can't understand the simplest of things. But you still want to instruct BB on how to do things. LMFAO. It's insanity!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    So because our passing game is so good we should continue to pass into 6-7 DB coverages? You sound like a bonified offensive coordinator bill obrien junior, and don't try and spin me into an anti BB guy like you are the king of. 2 faced spinning logic, just like Underdog.

    What do you so beside spam the board? Seriously?



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    So because our passing game is so good we should continue to pass into 6-7 DB coverages

    EXACTLY!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    I amsorry True but I must have missed where you laid those facts.  The info I have presented is for the regular season only.  You are talking oranges to my apples because you cannot dispute my regular season numbers.  I guss a D that cannot hold a 21 point lead is not at fault; the problem lies with a running game

    I consider PS games to be a separate entity.  But just for grins let's look at offensive PPG

    57 TDs 2011
    56 TDs 2010
    47 TDs 2009
    42 TD  2008
    67 TD
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]I amsorry True but I must have missed where you laid those facts.  The info I have presented is for the regular season only.  You are talking oranges to my apples because you cannot dispute my regular season numbers.  I guss a D that cannot hold a 21 point lead is not at fault; the problem lies with a running game I consider PS games to be a separate entity.  But just for grins let's look at offensive PPG 57 TDs 2011 56 TDs 2010 47 TDs 2009 42 TD  2008 67 TD
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    No problem, here are the facts. The years we were the "most" balanced we won 3 SB's with inferior offensive talent to what we currently possess.01,02,03

    Do you disagree?

    In 06 with the worst offensive talent we have probably ever had we beat a great Chargers team in SD to make it to the AFC championship game whwere we scored 34 points.

    Then when we switched to the pass heavy offense from 07 till now we had 2 of the highest scoring offense's in NFL history but it only amounted to 15.5 ppg in both SB's and only 21 points against the Jets(a team we just laid 40 on a few eeks before) and in 09 only 14 points scored in the post season against the ravens.

    We became one dimensional and have thus been contained by good defense's.

    Do you disagree?


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    what was the margin of victory in those SB wins?  what was the margin of loss in the SB and 06 losses? as you say in your postscript defense wins championships.  PS games are naturally closer because they are the better teams

    the balance during the regular season has nothing to do with the PS balance

    do you have any stats on the PS besides PPG?  run vs passes?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

    In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: what is the running game over past 11 years? : Absolutely wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.  This is misinformation.  Teams don't go into nickel and dime based on tendencies.... this really IS football 101.  They go into nickel and dime to match personell, aka, to cover the "Y" reciever or TE.  You want less nickel and dime ... use two runningbacks and take Welker or Hernandez off the field .  Running more often will NOT make someone send an extra LBer out there and leave Wes Welker uncovered.  Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE] You are trying to tell me that in order to counter the 5-6 DB defensive sets that we need to "take Welker or Hernandez off the field" and have TWO RB's in the game? Ok Z. No agenda there hey mate?  How about We have a power back in the game with Branch,WW,Gronk and Hernandez, then when DC's send out 5-6 DB's AS THEY DID ALL SEASON we run the ball down their throats? Tell me why that would not work? Becuase it did work whenever we used it.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    No not all.

    Don't say things I didn't say. 

    You , and the other poster above, make it seem like teams go into nickel/dime etc because they are expecting passes. 

    They aren't. They go into nickel and dime because NE has brought on an extra WR/TEh ... aka, adding a "Y." You need an extra cornerback or safety to defend the "Y" player. 

    I'm not saying "counter it" by taking a payer off the field, I'm explaining that if you think teams are "selling out" by going inot nickel you are missing something. 

    If a FB is on the field, it is EQUALLY difficult to run with a power rb or whatever else, because the defense will adjust by bringing in another LBer who can shed the block of a FB. 

    Likewise, a power runner heading into a nickel doesn't have "an easier time" because he only has a WR blocking in front of him, and all things being equal a CB can shed the block of a WR with the same facility that a LBer can shed the block of a FB.

    Football formations scale themselves to the other front ... get it?

    As far as your suggestion that running "never fails" ... well, it's patently false. In any game, any game, this season, I can show you a couple instances where running was unsuccessful against a nickel front. 

    Nothing works 100% of the time in football.

    Furthermore, if it were true ...then I think the people in the FO would be smart enough to notice this 100% trend and capitalize on it. 

    I could just as easily say, everytime NE went into hurry-up they scored points, therefore NE should go no-huddle full time next season, and I would be just as correct (probably more so based on the actual frequency of scores) as you. 

    The reality is, that despite what you are saying NE was actually BAD at power running last season. They couldn't do it when they needed to. 

    I would like to see them improve at that as much as anyone, but I don't pretend they are 100% at something that they are actually quite poor at. 

     
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    Re: what is the running game over past 11 years?

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