What is your opinion of this question?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cloudyandrain. Show Cloudyandrain's posts

    What is your opinion of this question?

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to Cloudyandrain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

    [/QUOTE]

    I respond with a question...

    Among the top teams (teams who consistently had orginally assigned picks in the lower third of the round) of the 2000-2012 era, which ones have drafted better?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    The one thing that I don't hear about is people getting the axe in the drafting department.  It seems that a team that is so keen on grading everything would have a grade here and on the people that said and did what.  But it's always quiet.  

    Clayton has hit it on the head as far as how the Pats draft.  They give priorities to coaches instead of the scouts.  One would think a happy median could be met here.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    Maybe you could make this argument from 2004-2010 season, but, as Clayton said, ever since Gronk, Hern, Spikes in 2010, he's had great success.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    This debate goes on and on.  My feeling is that BB does a very good job of team building, though his approach appears to value player fit and flexibility over pure individual talent.  At times, the approach may leave the team slightly deficient in top level talent, but it results in a team where the players work together well so that the whole is greater than the parts and allows for great flexibility in adjusting to any adversity during the season.  With Belichick's approach, there's consistent quality--and we're in the game every year.  If there's a flaw it's that in some years we don't seem to be quite rich enough in elite talent to beat the very best teams. 

    Still, all this needs to be weighed against the fact that Belichick is usually picking low in the draft (and also has forfeited some picks as penalties), so he's at a disadvantage compared with almost any other GM in the NFL. When you take that into consideration, it's really hard to find much fault with his overall strategy.  The only things that maybe keep me from giving unmitigated praise are some well-known busts in higher rounds.  Guys like Ras-I Dowling and even Brandon Merriweather give me just a bit of pause.  That and the fact that certain positions (secondary most prominently) have taken a while to rebuild.  Maybe keeping Asante Samuel even if he was a little overvalued, for instance, would have been better than all that followed. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This debate goes on and on.  My feeling is that BB does a very good job of team building, though his approach appears to value player fit and flexibility over pure individual talent.  At times, the approach may leave the team slightly deficient in top level talent, but it results in a team where the players work together well so that the whole is greater than the parts and allows for great flexibility in adjusting to any adversity during the season.  With Belichick's approach, there's consistent quality--and we're in the game every year.  If there's a flaw it's that in some years we don't seem to be quite rich enough in elite talent to beat the very best teams. 

    Still, all this needs to be weighed against the fact that Belichick is usually picking low in the draft (and also has forfeited some picks as penalties), so he's at a disadvantage compared with almost any other GM in the NFL. When you take that into consideration, it's really hard to find much fault with his overall strategy.  The only things that maybe keep me from giving unmitigated praise are some well-known busts in higher rounds.  Guys like Ras-I Dowling and even Brandon Merriweather give me just a bit of pause.  That and the fact that certain positions (secondary most prominently) have taken a while to rebuild.  Maybe keeping Asante Samuel even if he was a little overvalued, for instance, would have been better than all that followed. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not have said it better

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Cloudyandrain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

    [/QUOTE]

    I respond with a question...

    Among the top teams (teams who consistently had orginally assigned picks in the lower third of the round) of the 2000-2012 era, which ones have drafted better?

    [/QUOTE]

    Great answer

    Somehow some fans live in a fantasy land thinking this. Coming up short in SBs? yes why hasn't BB drafted only All Pros wherever he drafted? -and if an all pro CB hadn't dropped an INT, I guess Bb should have drafted better. and when they went 18-1 instead of 19-0 that was bad drafting too.u mean why didn't he have someone  better than Rodney at safety to stop the only helmet catch in nfl history. I mean what is wrong with BB anyways

    And to get to SB 46 he should have drafted better too, I mean losing a SB on a last minute TD and not getting the Hail Mary was more bad drafting.

    And this year after losing 6 all pros or near all pros he should have drafted better or they would certainly win  the SB. And if he would have drafted better they would have already won the number 1 seed, What a loser BB must be

    And heaven forbid that any of the other 31 teams that have lost for years and finally have enuf talent to win something might get lucky and catch a break

     

    And after all of this can the loser who gave the answer to espn name the someone who would definitely do better to guarantee a SB win?

    There wa a tool guest hosting on MandM saying that since BB didn't draft a Calvin johnson like wr BB failed. And he certainly should have gotten one as a FA, and even if he might not have the cap money to get any other good players. TB and a great wr would have gotten the pats a SB win. oopsTB did have RM. 

    sometimes I just want to bang my head agsinst the wall listening to people like this, and dome even get paid, 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to Cloudyandrain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

    [/QUOTE]


    when should you start? You should have already started

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Cloudyandrain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

    [/QUOTE]

    I respond with a question...

    Among the top teams (teams who consistently had orginally assigned picks in the lower third of the round) of the 2000-2012 era, which ones have drafted better?

    [/QUOTE]


    which ones had Brady, an perennially mediocre division and had Bill Parcells to turn the organization into a winner and help draft pieces of their championships? This narrows the list a helluva lot

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Cloudyandrain's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Q: Bill Belichick is a great coach, but at what point do we start to question his drafting ability and/or ability to develop players? A lot of talk has been made about Tom Brady winning despite his supporting cast, but shouldn't the question be, "How has Belichick built this team?" I understand that Aaron Hernandez's arrest changed things, but they have not drafted well.

     

     

    Steve in Pittsburgh

    A: The Patriots have drafted well enough to win the AFC East title, but of late, the drafts have left them more vulnerable to playoff losses. If there is a criticism, I'd offer it's that Patriots scouting is too coach-driven. Belichick will rely on the opinions of college coaches and coaches on his staff instead of the scouting department. You sense that trend when the Patriots take clumps of players out of the same college, one that has a head coach Belichick trusts and respects. Belichick changed the game, though, when he drafted Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, turning to a two-tight end offense that could score 30-plus points a game. He deserves credit for that. The true test of recent drafts on defense will be how many of those choices are signed to extensions. It can't be horrible because the Patriots win so many games, but they are coming up short on Super Bowls, which leaves them open to some criticism.

     

    Source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10192386/clayton-mailbag-injury-epidemic-ignored

    [/QUOTE]

    I respond with a question...

    Among the top teams (teams who consistently had orginally assigned picks in the lower third of the round) of the 2000-2012 era, which ones have drafted better?

    [/QUOTE]


    The ones that have won SBs in the last 8 years.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This debate goes on and on.  My feeling is that BB does a very good job of team building,

    [/QUOTE]

    You're wrong. Actually, he never has.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     why hasn't BB drafted only All Pros wherever he drafted?

    [/QUOTE]

    Many of us would settle for simply less busts.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     why hasn't BB drafted only All Pros wherever he drafted?

    [/QUOTE]

    Many of us would settle for simply less busts.

    [/QUOTE]


    BB = Legendary DC...Great HC... Average GM

     

       MERRY CHRISTMAS!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This debate goes on and on.  My feeling is that BB does a very good job of team building, though his approach appears to value player fit and flexibility over pure individual talent.  At times, the approach may leave the team slightly deficient in top level talent, but it results in a team where the players work together well so that the whole is greater than the parts and allows for great flexibility in adjusting to any adversity during the season.  With Belichick's approach, there's consistent quality--and we're in the game every year.  If there's a flaw it's that in some years we don't seem to be quite rich enough in elite talent to beat the very best teams. 

    Still, all this needs to be weighed against the fact that Belichick is usually picking low in the draft (and also has forfeited some picks as penalties), so he's at a disadvantage compared with almost any other GM in the NFL. When you take that into consideration, it's really hard to find much fault with his overall strategy.  The only things that maybe keep me from giving unmitigated praise are some well-known busts in higher rounds.  Guys like Ras-I Dowling and even Brandon Merriweather give me just a bit of pause.  That and the fact that certain positions (secondary most prominently) have taken a while to rebuild.  Maybe keeping Asante Samuel even if he was a little overvalued, for instance, would have been better than all that followed. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I could not have said it better

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you! And Merry Christmas, too!

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    What is your question of this opinion.  He sucks.  Without him we would have won the last twelve Super Bowls

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?


    I agree that the '06-'09 years were 'lost' years as far as the draft. The league stealing our 1st rd pick in '08 and two picks being traded away for Moss and Welker also made it harder to find draft success stories when the picks simply weren't there.

    Since 2010 Belichick has drafted well, better than average across the league in my opinion. However it is his ONE boneheaded move each draft that kills me.

    2013 - Harmon has looked VERY solid. But he was going to be picked in round 6-7. Here's an idea: spend 750k more in your offer sheet to guarantee we get Emmanual Sanders from Pitt and then draft Harmon instead of Boyce? 99.99% chance Duron is there a couple picks into rd 4. If we had Sanders we probably beat Cinci and NY in close games we couldn't get 3rd downs in and have the #1 seed right now.

    2012 - Picking Tavon Wilson, a 6th-7th rd talent, one spot ahead of Kendall Reyes, a BEAST of a DT myself and MANY on this board were clamoring for is just brainless/arrogant inexcusible SUPER BOWL LOSING decison making. Reyes was EXACTLY what this team needed. Safety was a need after the idiotic move to not go 1-2 million more for 1 year or 5-6 years in total contract length for Dashon Goldson when he was IN FOXBORO ON A VISIT! Trading down from where GB drafted stud CB Casey Hayward for Jake Bequette and assorted garbage was also a killer.

    2011 - Ras-I Dowling over Akeem Ayers remains a mind-boggling error. The man was never healthy. Cover ILB was a huge need with Spikes being a solid 2 down LB'er. Also not really sure Mallett was a need, if the team had developed and turned him into a 2nd rd pick by now then sure, but just keep a guy like Hoyer or bring back Cassell, no team means no SB and he wasn't yet old enough for it to be a Rodgers/Favre situation.

    2010 - Taylor Price was a bust in rd 3. He was picked a few spots ahead of Jimmy Graham (no need for Hernandez 1 round later with Graham here right?) and one pick ahead of cover ILB NaVorro Bowman, whose pick 6 we just saw on MNF and who was exactly what we needed to have inside with Mayo and Spikes.

    So other than ONE massively blown pick in each of the first 3 rounds the past 4 drafts I think BB has done very well:-)

    Imagine this team with Emmanual Sanders, Dashon Goldson, Kendall Reyes, Akeem Ayers, Casey Hayward and Jimmy Graham instead of Boyce, Bequette, Tavon Wilson and the Kyle Arrington extension and Gregory/Adrian Wilson signings??? Looking at trying for our third SB in a row right?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    BB is constantly drafting lower then necessary due to his fatally flawed “Trade Back Value” approach to the draft. 

    We are perennial contenders thanks to Tom Brady and non Super Bowl winners for the past 8 years thanks to the GM’s flawed approach, also known as garbage in garbage out.

    Deal with it Fan Boy Homer sheep.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    actually his draftsmake me irate, however the package has beenpretty good over the years.The only guys better than Bill are the guys on this thread why arent you G M s in the league?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BB is constantly drafting lower then necessary due to his fatally flawed “Trade Back Value” approach to the draft. 

    We are perennial contenders thanks to Tom Brady and non Super Bowl winners for the past 8 years thanks to the GM’s flawed approach, also known as garbage in garbage out.

    Deal with it Fan Boy Homer sheep.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's true.

    He's had plenty of ammo to move up if he wanted but instead, in 6 years with multiple 1st round picks, other than 2004 and 2012, he turned them into a bunch of 2-7's who rarely make it out of their rookie contracts or play ST..


    Even the greatest in NFL history, 2010 draft has yielded, McCourty?, Gronk?, Spikes? out of 12 blockbuster picks.

    The recent drafts don't look bad but really too soon to tell.

    Any time you got 9-15 rookie or UDFA's starting for you, that means you got problems.

    Where are the guys drafted in the prior 3 years and why aren't they starting, instead?.

     ANSWER: They're already gone or still on the bench.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: What is your opinion of this question?

    BB record with Cleveland

    91 6-10

    92 7-9

    93 7-9

    94-11-5 one playoff victory

    95 5-11

    With and Patriots minus Brady at QB

    2000 5-11

    2008 11-5

    The record without Brady is quite clear, more losing seasons than winning ones.

     
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