What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    The Pats have a LOT of cap room RIGHT NOW. +1

    They are coming off a SB appearance. +1

    They have 2 first round picks. +1

    They are set to lose no major pieces through Free Agency this year. +1

    And here's the real money maker, a list of significant free agents slated for after the 2012 season:

    Pat Chung
    Sebastian Vollmer
    Julian Edelman
    +1+1+1!

    That is all. Vollmer may physically be done at that point, and neither Chung nor Edelman will command big money...if the team even wants them back at that point (assuming they will).

    No cap issues now, none on the horizon, cap space to play with, and draft picks to add to the roster.

    He's the best there is, probably the best there ever has been, and may go down as the best there ever will be.

    Our main competitors over the pasdt 10 years: IND, SD, Balt, PIT all have a variety of issues, many focusing around the cap.

    Not only has BB run the most winningest team over the past decade, he's positioned them to REMAIN the winningest team for the NEXT decade.

    I started to question him in 2010, mostly his drafting ability...the guy won't ever be questioned by me again, he has a long-term vision that I'd need a telescope to follow.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Watch out!  Our resident troll, Babe Parilli, will whip in here and tell all of us that BB isn't that good and average at best as a GM.

    LMAO

    I warned, and warned and warned for fans to be patient and explained the approach in and out of the lockout, but many refused to try to get it.  I find it hilarious.  What's even funnier is the trolls and people like Babe Parilli thinking they can talk down to the people who get it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    We make the Super Bowl every year or come close it on a team that never spends over the cap, only the Steelers have been as impressive at reloading.  

    BB commands respect all over the league, that's evident when our practice squad players become available and by watching our coaches and executives fly out the door on to high paying and head coaching positions elsewhere.  Only a troll trying to sow dissent amongst Pat's fans would disagree...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Well, Wozzy, we have a whole host of trolls here who pretend to be Pats fans.

    Sad, really. We're witnessing history in the making and many belligerent Pats fans here, led by Babe Parilli and his troll work, don't understand what's happening. Or, they do, and purposely are ignorant to troll the board.

    10 years from now someone will write a book that talks about how BB completely revolutionized the way to beat the cap, sustain greatness, maximize assets, use leverage and do all of that for the benefit of the TEAM.

    It's so refreshing to see a leader like him not care what people think, avoid trendy players or concepts, and stick to the plan, regardless of how long some think it's taking to execute.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    I wont say he is the best ever or even the best right now. But he is excellent. Especially at building teams that BB the coach can make hay with!

    He does field excellent TEAMS (flawed perhaps but hugely competitive and often underrated by writers, fans and even opponents) year in and year out. He has gotten to FIVE SuperBowls and yes a big part of that is because he is an exceptional coach. But you do not get to the SuperBowl so often without having a really good roster.

    You can absolutely point out mistakes in drafting or FA. But you can with EVERY SINGLE GM who has EVER held the position.

    He does have an excellent grasp of the Cap era. When Brady finally retires there is little question that they will miss Brady but - if BB is still at the controls they will field a solid, competitive team the very first year without Brady.

    I for one am liking the roster BB put together last year and excited that he will improve on that this year. Yes he will miss a pick or a FA that might have proven a difference maker. But they will upgrade and be a force again this year. I would not be surprised to see them win the AFC East. I would not be surprised to see them get back to the AFC title game. I would not be surprised to see them in the SB. I would not be surprised to see them win the SB. You just can't do that without a good roster. Otherwise the great coaches would never have to rebuild! Think about that for a brief moment. There is only so much even a great coach can do with any roster. Otherwise only the peons would have to rebuild! But no one expects even the greatest coach in any era to be able to coach a bad team into the playoffs let alone into the SuperBowl 5 times in 10 odd years.

    How do you ultimately judge a coach? Likely by (1) whether he wins more games than people thought he should have and (2) how well his teams do in big games (3) his overall winning pct (4) his playoff winning pct (5) number of championship games coached in (6) number of championships won

    How do you ultimately judge a GM? I have never seen someone try to do it by generating a "batting average" in the draft. I think it has always been by (1) how quickly were they able to build up a roster to the point of being playoff competitive (2) longevity of putting together playoff caliber teams (3) overall winning pct of teams they have put together (4) number of championship games their teams have gotten to (5) number of championships won.

    Maybe you can find some fault in all this and maybe you can add some meaningful point or minimize one of the points I make here. But when taken overall what I am saying here is fairly to the point. And for those who want to evaluate BB as a GM, don't rely on anecdotal points. Use them if you like to back up bigger points such as how well BB measures up to all of the above points (or if you really have another a truly meaningful criteria to ADD to the picture, not simply to replace other truly meaningful criteria).

    Babe and others can make a case that BB the coach masks some of the flaws of BB the GM. I will buy that as far as it goes. It is like saying that Brady's ability to read Ds quickly masks some of the weaknesses of Brady physically (his lack of atheleticism or his mediocrity with the long ball for example). But you can only mask so much as a coach. Even Babe in one of his threads tries to make the case (and a rediculcous one in my opinion) that given a choice between Brady and BB he would take Brady (longevity of a player v coach notwithstanding). But if BB the coach could make even a roster as mediocre (or poor?) as BB the GM creates - according to Babe's view - then BB the coach would EASILY be the MOST valuable person in the history of team sports and without question. But no coach is capable of having such a total and even magical effect. 

    A coach is the most important person to a team. More important than any player. But if the GM does not give the coach a roster with enough quality then the team is not going to go anywhere. So if the team is strong, year after year after year even as the roster changes and changes and changes, then the GM is doing a good job at least and, if you get to 5 SuperBowls in a decade, he is doing one heck of a job.

    It is crystal clear, from a dispassionate perspective, that BB is an excellent GM. Best? I wont argue one way or another. But there is no doubt he is excellent.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Who is the best ever in the cap era?  If he didn't have a cap, would this guy seriously not be building undefeated teams every year?

    Who is better?  No one.  Ron Wolf left GB with only one ring in the late 90s.  Jimmy Johnson is the closest with 3 teams that won 3 rings, but that was at the dawn of the era (1993 season), where Dallas had already won a title in 1992.  They had it right.  BUt, BB is clearly superior to that at this point.

    All the greats also had great organizational support with financial backing.  BB has that here, but the cap changes HOW you build a team.

    This isn't supposed to be happening, folks.  NE should have been dead in the water after 2007.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    The only thing about BB that I disagree with is that he only has a Grady White for a boat. He could have done something better set up for fishing. He could have showed the blues he caught on a football life. Other then that... carry on Bill
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from itllnevahapn. Show itllnevahapn's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]Watch out!  Our resident troll, Babe Parilli, will whip in here and tell all of us that BB isn't that good and average at best as a GM. LMAO I warned, and warned and warned for fans to be patient and explained the approach in and out of the lockout, but many refused to try to get it.  I find it hilarious.  What's even funnier is the trolls and people like Babe Parilli thinking they can talk down to the people who get it.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]


    a great coach, not a good GM. hasnt drafted a pass rusher or wr or good cb in years.  free agents average.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]The only thing about BB that I disagree with is that he only has a Grady White for a boat. He could have done something better set up for fishing. He could have showed the blues he caught on a football life. Other then that... carry on Bill
    Posted by Philskiw1[/QUOTE]

    You have to understand that the Grady White may not be the fastest, or the prettiest...but the value is fantastic and it's extremely flexible in it's varied applications.

    At some point, the engine will go, and BB will move on. As unemotional as ever as he then looks for another Grady White on the second hand market.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]10 years from now someone will write a book that talks about how BB completely revolutionized the way to beat the cap, sustain greatness, maximize assets, use leverage and do all of that for the benefit of the TEAM.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Really? I don't think you can fill a whole book about getting lucky and drafting Brady in the 6th round.

    Maybe it will be just a short story.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts : a great coach, not a good GM. hasnt drafted a pass rusher or wr or good cb in years.  free agents average.
    Posted by itllnevahapn[/QUOTE]

    Hey, wait a minute. That's the truth. So, you must be a troll.

    Non-trolls say BB is the greatest GM ever, Brady is the problem, not the D, they're great, and we must run that all-time great back BJGE more.

    If you're not doing those things you must be a troll.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    I think there should be a new poll. Who would you keep Babe Parilli or PatsFanSince 1966?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    A great coach can do great things with an average GM, BB I think is an average GM but a great coach. I do think though he's great working with the CAP but some of his draft picks creates doubt of him being an excellent GM and his reluctancy to adress his team biggest needs is maddening. But other than that he's great at getting value out of washed up players, get the most out of what he has even when it lacks talent.

    I'll have BB as my coach any day, but to say he is an excellent GM, I wont go that far.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]I wont say he is the best ever or even the best right now. But he is excellent. Especially at building teams that BB the coach can make hay with! He does field excellent TEAMS (flawed perhaps but hugely competitive and often underrated by writers, fans and even opponents) year in and year out. He has gotten to FIVE SuperBowls and yes a big part of that is because he is an exceptional coach. But you do not get to the SuperBowl so often without having a really good roster. You can absolutely point out mistakes in drafting or FA. But you can with EVERY SINGLE GM who has EVER held the position. He does have an excellent grasp of the Cap era. When Brady finally retires there is little question that they will miss Brady but - if BB is still at the controls they will field a solid, competitive team the very first year without Brady. I for one am liking the roster BB put together last year and excited that he will improve on that this year. Yes he will miss a pick or a FA that might have proven a difference maker. But they will upgrade and be a force again this year. I would not be surprised to see them win the AFC East. I would not be surprised to see them get back to the AFC title game. I would not be surprised to see them in the SB. I would not be surprised to see them win the SB. You just can't do that without a good roster. Otherwise the great coaches would never have to rebuild! Think about that for a brief moment. There is only so much even a great coach can do with any roster. Otherwise only the peons would have to rebuild! But no one expects even the greatest coach in any era to be able to coach a bad team into the playoffs let alone into the SuperBowl 5 times in 10 odd years. How do you ultimately judge a coach? Likely by (1) whether he wins more games than people thought he should have and (2) how well his teams do in big games (3) his overall winning pct (4) his playoff winning pct (5) number of championship games coached in (6) number of championships won How do you ultimately judge a GM? I have never seen someone try to do it by generating a "batting average" in the draft. I think it has always been by (1) how quickly were they able to build up a roster to the point of being playoff competitive (2) longevity of putting together playoff caliber teams (3) overall winning pct of teams they have put together (4) number of championship games their teams have gotten to (5) number of championships won. Maybe you can find some fault in all this and maybe you can add some meaningful point or minimize one of the points I make here. But when taken overall what I am saying here is fairly to the point. And for those who want to evaluate BB as a GM, don't rely on anecdotal points. Use them if you like to back up bigger points such as how well BB measures up to all of the above points (or if you really have another a truly meaningful criteria to ADD to the picture, not simply to replace other truly meaningful criteria). Babe and others can make a case that BB the coach masks some of the flaws of BB the GM. I will buy that as far as it goes. It is like saying that Brady's ability to read Ds quickly masks some of the weaknesses of Brady physically (his lack of atheleticism or his mediocrity with the long ball for example). But you can only mask so much as a coach. Even Babe in one of his threads tries to make the case (and a rediculcous one in my opinion) that given a choice between Brady and BB he would take Brady (longevity of a player v coach notwithstanding). But if BB the coach could make even a roster as mediocre (or poor?) as BB the GM creates - according to Babe's view - then BB the coach would EASILY be the MOST valuable person in the history of team sports and without question. But no coach is capable of having such a total and even magical effect.  A coach is the most important person to a team. More important than any player. But if the GM does not give the coach a roster with enough quality then the team is not going to go anywhere. So if the team is strong, year after year after year even as the roster changes and changes and changes, then the GM is doing a good job at least and, if you get to 5 SuperBowls in a decade, he is doing one heck of a job. It is crystal clear, from a dispassionate perspective, that BB is an excellent GM. Best? I wont argue one way or another. But there is no doubt he is excellent.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]


    Interesting that there was a previous thread addressing BB capability as GM that lasted about 140 postings untill it was asked to rate all/any active GMs that would be better than BB. that thread has been silent for 4 days.

    My personal favorite is the Jeff Ireland Miami with his probing  interview agenda  " is your mother a prostitute " question.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Compare BB the GM to Mike Brown the GM. As of late Mike Brown the GM has been acting more like BB the GM. For example trading Carson Palmer as opposed to just saying screw you and stay retired. Mike Brown is hated in Cincinnati.
    The rookie wage scale has changed the way a GM manages a team now. All the financial parameters are different. We have a prepetually winning team. what was out worst season recently? 2002? 9 wins? This fan base either isn't old enough to remember the Grogan/Eason days or is very spoiled. Its a far cry from having to get all the sharp stuff away from Irving Fryar's wife vs only winning 10 games.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts : Interesting that there was a previous thread addressing BB capability as GM that lasted about 140 postings untill it was asked to rate all/any active GMs that would be better than BB. that thread has been silent for 4 days. My personal favorite is the Jeff Ireland Miami with his probing  interview agenda  " is your mother a prostitute " question.
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]


    Sums things up nicely.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts : Really? I don't think you can fill a whole book about getting lucky and drafting Brady in the 6th round. Maybe it will be just a short story.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Lucky possibly yes ... but what does this speak of the other 31 GMs and their player evaluation methods?

    I know , whoever was drafting 200 said " damn , he was next on our board!"

    for the record it was s**t year for QBs and Brady was a skinny immobile part timer ( Drew Henson) , but he was a proven winner with 4th qtr comebacks , 1999 Rose Bowl  the biggest. I believe the late QB coach saw something and only BB pulled the trigger.

    18 pennington  ( probably smarter than most of the GMs making these decisions)!
    65 Giovanni Carmossi   SF no less
    75 Redman  Balt
    163 Tee Martin , OK National Champ at Tenn , hey isnt that where Peyton played for 3 years? trivia question Backup to Peyton ?? Todd Helton Colorado Rockies
    168 Mark Bulger  Saints serviceable but not for them
    183 my second favorite next to Carmozzi...  Sperjon Wynn  Cleve ( figures)
    and
    199 thank you  thank you  thank you


    San Francisco 49ersGiovanni CarmazziQuarterbackHofstra
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Bob Kraft set up ground rules that made BB better.  As part of his job, BB understands the ground rules and agrees with them.

    The long-range health of the team always comes first.  This means that the Patriots will always trade away their first round draft pick if the deal looks sweet.  Most other NFL coaches want to win this year (or else many of them will get fired at the end of the year) so they all trade for the Patriot picks.  One reason that the Patriots win year after year is because they usually get extra draft picks every single year.

    BB carries a bit of a draft genius moniker (Gronk and Hernandez didn't hurt that image) but the front office runs the NFL's most extensive scouting organization.  BB gets a consult but it isn't really BB making the big picks.

    The front office works its tail off.  This week the front office is moving at top speed and none of the fans notice all of their moves, only because the Pats aren't signing some big faker like Brandon Marshall.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts : Lucky possibly yes ... but what does this speak of the other 31 GMs and their player evaluation methods? I know , whoever was drafting 200 said " damn , he was next on our board!" for the record it was s**t year for QBs and Brady was a skinny immobile part timer ( Drew Henson) , but he was a proven winner with 4th qtr comebacks , 1999 Rose Bowl  the biggest. I believe the late QB coach saw something and only BB pulled the trigger. 18 pennington  ( probably smarter than most of the GMs making these decisions)! 65 Giovanni Carmossi   SF no less 75 Redman  Balt 163 Tee Martin , OK National Champ at Tenn , hey isnt that where Peyton played for 3 years? trivia question Backup to Peyton ?? Todd Helton Colorado Rockies 168 Mark Bulger  Saints serviceable but not for them 183 my second favorite next to Carmozzi...  Sperjon Wynn  Cleve ( figures) and 199 thank you  thank you  thank you San Francisco 49ers Giovanni Carmazzi Quarterback Hofstra
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    If not for Dick Rehbein Brady would probably be going to the Hall of Fame for the Chargers? not us. Dick absolutely pestered BB into drafting Brady. Any time you get a star player after the 3rd round you're lucky. That's just the way it is.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    Speaking from experience, even though you can post multiple threads by NFL pundits speaking to BB's excellence as a GM, there are going to be those who simply think he is average at best.  I happen to think there's been no one better in the league over the past 10 years and the success of the team is testimony to it.  Would he have been this good without Brady?  We'll never know and to suggest that he wouldn't is mere speculation and nothing more.  

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bubthegrub12. Show Bubthegrub12's posts

    Re: What makes BB such a GOOD GM, in spite of some thoughts

    The issue with this question is definition. It seems that most of those who criticize the GM performance are those who think they should be in the SB every year. So it's been a long time since the last Lombardi. And, truly, lack of personnel (especially on defense) has been the killer. 

    Then there are those of us who believe a good GM is someone who can keep a team solid enough to continually win. And five of eleven years you get to the big game, that's pretty impressive. To do this and manage the cap is a skill. I'd say there are no other GMs around who have had sustained success like this. 

    A perfect example is when Brady was lost in 08, yet they still went 11-5 without their MVP and only missed the postseason by a tiebreaker. And what has Matt Cassel done in KC? When the Colts lost Manning they went 2-14! 

    All I know is I cannot think of anyone else I'd want to see them bring in to replace him!
     

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