What we need from Aqib Talib...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    What we need from Aqib Talib...

    Many threads on this board are asking versions of the same two questions:

    1) Is Aqib Talib a "shutdown" corner?

    2) Can Aqib Talib somehow transform the Pats' D (perhaps by taking away the opponent's most explosive receiver) into a "shutdown" defense?

     

    For the sake of "I'll believe it when I see it," I am going to assume the answer to both questions is a healthy, "No." So, then what are we left with?

    Hopefully, just a better defense. How much better? I would be THRILLED if the addition of Talib allows the Patriots hold the opposing offense to 3-4 points fewer per game. Put in proper perspective, if one opposing touchdown (per game) can be held to a field goal by having a solid DB in the backfield, it may be all that is required for the NE Pats to taste Lombardi.

    We tend to forget with all the yards and big plays that the Pats give up that their offense is as good or better than any other. Since week 10 of the 2010 season, the Pats have lost just two games by more than 4 points, a span of 35 games! (A 25-17 loss to Pitt last year, and the 28-21 playoff loss to the Jets in '10)

    So what are we asking for here? We don't need to cut the passing yards total by 100+ yards per game, although that would be nice. But cutting it down by, say, 25 yards per game...just one more stop on 3rd down...just one more TD turned FG...just one more FG attempt just out of reach (forcing a punt) may be all that the Patriots need to turn these 2 and 3 point losses into victories.

    Everyone remembers that the Pats won the Lombardi in 01, 03 and 04. Nobody remembers how many yards per game the offense tallied and the defense gave up.

    So, if and when we see the Pats D still giving up yards or big plays when Talib is on the field...try to keep it in perspective.

    Just one more stop per game.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    We tend to forget with all the yards and big plays that the Pats give up that their offense is as good or better than any other. Since week 10 of the 2010 season, the Pats have lost just two games by more than 4 points, a span of 35 games! (A 25-17 loss to Pitt last year, and the 28-21 playoff loss to the Jets in '10)

     

    That's incredible.  We really are witnessing the best run of any football team in history.  Amazing that it's going on its 12th year and shows no sign of ending.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:

    Many threads on this board are asking versions of the same two questions:

    1) Is Aqib Talib a "shutdown" corner?

    2) Can Aqib Talib somehow transform the Pats' D (perhaps by taking away the opponent's most explosive receiver) into a "shutdown" defense?

     

    For the sake of "I'll believe it when I see it," I am going to assume the answer to both questions is a healthy, "No." So, then what are we left with?

    Hopefully, just a better defense. How much better? I would be THRILLED if the addition of Talib allows the Patriots hold the opposing offense to 3-4 points fewer per game. Put in proper perspective, if one opposing touchdown (per game) can be held to a field goal by having a solid DB in the backfield, it may be all that is required for the NE Pats to taste Lombardi.

    We tend to forget with all the yards and big plays that the Pats give up that their offense is as good or better than any other. Since week 10 of the 2010 season, the Pats have lost just two games by more than 4 points, a span of 35 games! (A 25-17 loss to Pitt last year, and the 28-21 playoff loss to the Jets in '10)

    So what are we asking for here? We don't need to cut the passing yards total by 100+ yards per game, although that would be nice. But cutting it down by, say, 25 yards per game...just one more stop on 3rd down...just one more TD turned FG...just one more FG attempt just out of reach (forcing a punt) may be all that the Patriots need to turn these 2 and 3 point losses into victories.

    Everyone remembers that the Pats won the Lombardi in 01, 03 and 04. Nobody remembers how many yards per game the offense tallied and the defense gave up.

    So, if and when we see the Pats D still giving up yards or big plays when Talib is on the field...try to keep it in perspective.

    Just one more stop per game.

     

     




     

    I agree that any improvements need to be tempered. Im actually a little dissapointed because before the bye week I heard BB mention that during the bye its a chance to re-asses whats working and whats not and I remember him mentioning changing schemes which Ive not heard before so I thought with the agressive gameplan we had shutting out the Rams(the one TD was on 1st drive in cover 2) but teh rest of the game showed some pressure as well as some man coverage and the results were so good I was sure to see more of it against the Bills but NO...same old defense getting carved up for 35 FIRST DOWNS.

    So while I was a bit excited to get some talent in here and someone who plays man well I cant say that he will be used right. After watching the Bills game I started to get that sick feeling towards the end I usually get with this defense. So in short , it dont matter if you bring in Deion Sanders if you keep playing vanilla cover 2 schemses with no pressure. Talib can play zone but he excels at man which allows you to take away half the field and double any WR or TE of your choice or send more people, whatever but I have a feeling Talib will come here and look lost because of these asinine schemes built to make offenses be perfect but its far from that. All the QB has to be is competent, not even good(Sanchez) and he will eat up this secondary. VS the BIlls, there were several times we covered up the back end only to still get burnt because Fitzy had 6 seconds to throw. 3 man rushes Blow and there were too many seeing as though the 8 in coverage werent covering. MY rant is over and No I dont expect us to change because of ONE player. It takes more than that. Coaches gotta wake up and play agressive!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    I'm not a fan of sweeping changes.  The difference between a good defense and a bad one is inches not feet. 

     

    Imagine if the Patriots get just 3 more 3rd down stops in Bufalo, that's 3 more punts and now an incease in posession time for the Pats offense as well as less scoring from Buffalo. 

     

    We could be looking at a 50 to 14 game because of 3 plays. 

     

    That's what we need from Talib, to help with a handful of plays.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    3-4 points per game would be an enormous improvement and would take the Pats from 15th in the league to 5th.  Not sure that's achievable by the addition of one good cover corner but you never know.  If Talib can be counted on to take the opposition's #1 receiver out of the game or at least contain him it could give this D a big boost.  

    Few more stops on 3rd down and elimination of the bad coverage on deep ball and I'm happy with the acquisition.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    lets also keep it in perspective. Tampa Bay, who argueably is still fighting for a playoff position (at least they are not mathmatically eliminated yet) is letting go a CB for a low (presumably) 4th round draft choice rather than keep him on the team for 7 more games.

    Is this because he is such a distraction to the team? Or is because he is not that great a CB?

    Plus, the guy has not seen the field for 4 weeks. He has not had any contact drills in 4 weeks which could impact his tackling. Is it safe to assume he is worked in as the dime back in game 1? Or do the Pats throw him in the fire from day 1 and give him 60-70 snaps?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    3-4 points per game would be an enormous improvement and would take the Pats from 15th in the league to 5th.  Not sure that's achievable by the addition of one good cover corner but you never know.  If Talib can be counted on to take the opposition's #1 receiver out of the game or at least contain him it could give this D a big boost.  

    Few more stops on 3rd down and elimination of the bad coverage on deep ball and I'm happy with the acquisition.




    This is true, ATJ.

    Still, through 9 games, a 3-point shaving would be 27 points total.

    Obviously, you can't play the games over, but the two long bombs against Seattle account for 14; the bogus PI call (against Balty) that resulted in a TD is 7; the Arizona blocked punt (although, that had nothing to do with the D) is 7...that's 28 right there. I'll have to re-watch the Jets game (26 points allowed) and first Bills game (28 points allowed) to look for more that are directly attributable to the secondary.

    Anyway, we're talking about going from 22 points a game to 18-19; not 11 or 12. While it's a significant task, I think it's an achievable one.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    I would start with a pulse - does he have one of those? Then I would check to see if has a brain...perhaps a MRI or cat scan. If he has both, he is miles ahead of our current defensive backfield. I think these tests should become mandatory when we draft or sign defensive backs going forward. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    3-4 points per game would be an enormous improvement and would take the Pats from 15th in the league to 5th.  Not sure that's achievable by the addition of one good cover corner but you never know.  If Talib can be counted on to take the opposition's #1 receiver out of the game or at least contain him it could give this D a big boost.  

    Few more stops on 3rd down and elimination of the bad coverage on deep ball and I'm happy with the acquisition.



    I totally agree with this. There are a hanful of players in NFL history that are going to make 4 point difference per game. Talib is certainly not one of them... but he should be the best defensive back the Patriots have once he gets out on the field. I would be happy with a couple more 3rd down stops and people not looking lost when receivers run deep patterns...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    If the Pats would have went after and got Cortland Finnegan this last off season and then picked up Talib like they did now, what a backfield it would have been.


    I just want Talib to give us a guy who can turn his head and make a play on the ball.  That's all I am looking for as it seems none of the current CB's learned how to do that.  Maybe it will rub off onto the others!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    I'll keep it simple:  IMPACT and GOOD PLAY!!  We'll all be happy!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    lets also keep it in perspective. Tampa Bay, who argueably is still fighting for a playoff position (at least they are not mathmatically eliminated yet) is letting go a CB for a low (presumably) 4th round draft choice rather than keep him on the team for 7 more games.

    Is this because he is such a distraction to the team? Or is because he is not that great a CB?

    Plus, the guy has not seen the field for 4 weeks. He has not had any contact drills in 4 weeks which could impact his tackling. Is it safe to assume he is worked in as the dime back in game 1? Or do the Pats throw him in the fire from day 1 and give him 60-70 snaps?




    All good points.

    The counterpoint is that Talib has an awful lot to play for during the remainder of this season. If he plays well and stays out of trouble (granted, HUGE ifs), he's in line for a major contract.

    My hope is that the close relationship between BB and Schiano had something to do with this; i.e., Schiano saying to BB, "He's been trying to mature; he's just worn out his welcome here. I think a change of scenery and a disciplined environment...he's a real player.

    Of course, that is my wishful thinking. In the end, the knucklehead may remain a knucklehead.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    If the Pat's defense plays better, it's because they're playing better together as a unit, the pass rush is effective therefore the coverage looks better and has more plays on the ball.  One player won't change the make up of any defense that much, especially a back end player.

    The D played great in London against the Rams, they played good for one quarter last game and apprently felt too good about themselves after only giving up 7 points the previous game because they fell apart.   All they need to do is be more consistant and put more beef on the field on 3rd down plays.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    If the Pats would have went after and got Cortland Finnegan this last off season and then picked up Talib like they did now, what a backfield it would have been.


    I just want Talib to give us a guy who can turn his head and make a play on the ball.  That's all I am looking for as it seems none of the current CB's learned how to do that.  Maybe it will rub off onto the others!!




     

    Where was Finnegan when he played us??  I agree he would have been an upgrade but BB doesnt sign big name CBs and really never has.  As far as how much Talib can help, its about how much the Pats Allow him to help. Coming in as a man to man, press guy, how effective will he be in our vanilla zones where we dont apply pressure. One overlooked factor. Teams play different schems and seeing as we are the least blitzing team in the league and have given up the most plays, how can that change with one player?? You have to switch to man and ask him to lock up one side and double the other but playin cover 2 zone wont change anything just because u replace one guy. Its the safeties who arent helping. That wont change by replacing a CB will it...???

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    3-4 points per game would be an enormous improvement and would take the Pats from 15th in the league to 5th.  Not sure that's achievable by the addition of one good cover corner but you never know.  If Talib can be counted on to take the opposition's #1 receiver out of the game or at least contain him it could give this D a big boost.  

    Few more stops on 3rd down and elimination of the bad coverage on deep ball and I'm happy with the acquisition.



    I totally agree with this. There are a hanful of players in NFL history that are going to make 4 point difference per game. Talib is certainly not one of them... but he should be the best defensive back the Patriots have once he gets out on the field. I would be happy with a couple more 3rd down stops and people not looking lost when receivers run deep patterns...



    But, see, that could be the difference in 3-4 points per game. In some games, it could be a difference of 14 points.

    I agree that it's very difficult for a defense to go from 14 points a game down to 10.5. But going from 22 down to 18.5 is not as hard a mountain to climb for a team that has a solid run defense. If Talib is good enough to (not shut down, but) render the best receiver on the opponent much less effective (say 4 catches for 40 yards, rather than 9 for 100), it makes it easier on the remainder of the secondary.

    But, as someone mentioned earlier, if they just bring him in to play zone, it's all a waste. I surely hope that is not the case.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    BB has the Pats playing cover 2 rather than press because he doesnt trust the Safeties. Signing Talib, has nothing to do with trusting the Safeties. If you noticed against the Bills, the Pats had McCourty playing deep cover 1 with Gregory playing the middle over the top of Chandler and Jones.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    BB has the Pats playing cover 2 rather than press because he doesnt trust the Safeties. Signing Talib, has nothing to do with trusting the Safeties. If you noticed against the Bills, the Pats had McCourty playing deep cover 1 with Gregory playing the middle over the top of Chandler and Jones.



    Good observation.  It's hard to notice these things unless they start broadcasting the All-22 coaches cam.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    BB has the Pats playing cover 2 rather than press because he doesnt trust the Safeties. Signing Talib, has nothing to do with trusting the Safeties. If you noticed against the Bills, the Pats had McCourty playing deep cover 1 with Gregory playing the middle over the top of Chandler and Jones.



    Maybe he plans to make Talib a safety as well...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    I would like to see the Pats play press man to man with Mcourty covering the opposing teams #1 WR all over the field, and with Talib covering the 2nd WR. I prefer Dennard in the nickle and either Arrington or Cole in the dime.

    I have been a critic of Gregory, but he has only played in a handful of games in this defense. I would like to see Gregory and Chung/Wilson at S and see what this defensive backfield can do over the next 7 games.

    Against a run heavy opposition (Houston, Jets) I prefer the Pats in a 3/4 aligment, rather than have a Safety in the box.

    The Pats have the coaches to coach these varying defenses, and the players to plug in (if healthy)...they simply need better execution

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I would like to see the Pats play press man to man with Mcourty covering the opposing teams #1 WR all over the field, and with Talib covering the 2nd WR. I prefer Dennard in the nickle and either Arrington or Cole in the dime.

    I have been a critic of Gregory, but he has only played in a handful of games in this defense. I would like to see Gregory and Chung/Wilson at S and see what this defensive backfield can do over the next 7 games.

    Against a run heavy opposition (Houston, Jets) I prefer the Pats in a 3/4 aligment, rather than have a Safety in the box.

    The Pats have the coaches to coach these varying defenses, and the players to plug in (if healthy)...they simply need better execution




    This is the only part that I really do not agree with. Their defensive coaches (Patricia, Boyer and Flores) have not shown they know how to coach any defense...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I would like to see the Pats play press man to man with Mcourty covering the opposing teams #1 WR all over the field, and with Talib covering the 2nd WR. I prefer Dennard in the nickle and either Arrington or Cole in the dime.

    I have been a critic of Gregory, but he has only played in a handful of games in this defense. I would like to see Gregory and Chung/Wilson at S and see what this defensive backfield can do over the next 7 games.

    Against a run heavy opposition (Houston, Jets) I prefer the Pats in a 3/4 aligment, rather than have a Safety in the box.

    The Pats have the coaches to coach these varying defenses, and the players to plug in (if healthy)...they simply need better execution



    good post

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    if they use Talib in a vanilla zone and the pass rush is ineffective, the impact will be pretty minimal.

    Let's hope BB, Patricia, Boyer, and Flores can start thinking a little out of the box here.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: What we need from Aqib Talib...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I would like to see the Pats play press man to man with Mcourty covering the opposing teams #1 WR all over the field, and with Talib covering the 2nd WR. I prefer Dennard in the nickle and either Arrington or Cole in the dime.

    I have been a critic of Gregory, but he has only played in a handful of games in this defense. I would like to see Gregory and Chung/Wilson at S and see what this defensive backfield can do over the next 7 games.

    Against a run heavy opposition (Houston, Jets) I prefer the Pats in a 3/4 aligment, rather than have a Safety in the box.

    The Pats have the coaches to coach these varying defenses, and the players to plug in (if healthy)...they simply need better execution



    "I would like to see the Pats play press man to man"

    hey rkarp,

    been saying that foreva too.

    we just differ on mcc better than  talib corner

     
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