What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    -not surprised Hoyer was cut. I never thought he showed much. Like what Mallette can bring to the table with his arm, but feel this offense is not conducive to his strengths
    -surprised Vereen has not translated what he has shown in practice to games. 
    -not surprised at the WR cuts. Never enamored with aging WR's and Gaff, Branch and Stallworth and thought if one of them did make the cut it would be due to injuries to either Wes or Lloyd
    -surprised to hear some one comp Salas to Bills David Nelson who I think is a good WR 
    -not surprised the FA signing disappointed. A lot of wasted $$$ and I think both Gregory and Lloyd are solid, but not spectacular. Pats needed a playmake at WR and the defensive back field and still feel they did not get either
    -surprised at Jones ability to play right away. I thought he was a 30% of the snaps first year player
    -surprised Carpenter was cut. Leaves the team thin when, not if, Spikes gets hurt
    -not surprised Waters isn't with the team. Wish the FA $$$$ were allotted a more sure thing than Gallery. 
    -can't figure out Edelman. Guy isu uncoverable in practice, but Brady doesn't look his way in games. 



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    I think that's a pretty honest list.

    Personally I thought Hoyer was pretty decent, but someone wrote over the summer that for him to put any heat on the ball he really had to torque his body to deliver that type of zip. I think that's telling, because Brady and Mallett don't have to do that and you don't really have the time to do that in a NFL game - so maybe he just wasn't talented enough - thus not worth keeping.

    Vareen made a few real nice catches in these pre season games and seemed to get what was there on runs (which wasn't much). So I'd like to see what he could do as a third down back because Woodhead seemed to drop some balls this pre season and I really can't remember him doing anything special last year.

    I'm not surprised either about the wide receiver cuts - I didn't think any of the guys they signed were going to help. It was a typical low cost, high reward thing that they love to do. Gaffney did have some decent numbers last year, so I thought he maybe was going to stick.

    I thought this free agent period (and last years as well) were two of the worst this team has had. Addai, Gallery, Fenene, Stallworth, Gaffney, Carpenter...all didn't even make the team...two of them quit/retired! One was sent home two weeks prior to his release (Fenene). Now if Lloyd turns into a 80 plus catch guy for us and Gregory tightens up the secondary you can live with it, but we had money to spend and needs to fill. We still are 8 million under the cap right now and were 7 million under it last year. You can't tell me that signing one big name free agent would of destroyed the locker room and salary cap structure of this team.

    I'm surprised Brady got hit that much behind our line - I did think Solder would come right in and be a rock. That was stupid of me - it takes time to become a good left tackle. I will be totally shocked if they have this guy drop back to pass 40 times a game behind that line - this is the year they need to run the football.

    All in all there wasn't a whole lot of surprises..Wilfork played well, Spikes looked physical, Chung got dinged...Welker, Hernadez and Gronk will be our offense. The two rookies looked good. If the offensive line tightens up we should win 12 games...I'll take that.

      
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:

    "A lot of money wasted?" Do you ever have a clue what you're talking about?  Basically every single player that was brought in was brought in well under market.

    Branch came back on a vet min deal and Fanenene hid his condition, which could very well lead to a win for the Pats front office there.  Besides, a Branch or a Gaffney might return after Week 1.  I don't see any wasted money at all, actually. I see BB loading up in camp for competition and the best players showing why they belong.  This is a problem? lmao


    You MUST be Rusty.  INSULTING, EGOTISTICAL, SNARKY, AND HYPER VERBOSE.  You better get your act together fast, or you will be leaving.  We are not going to tolerate this kind of junk anymore, and we have the tools to stop it now.  Ya been told!

    Gallery retired. What do you want? Did you have this reaction in 2001 when Joe Panos chose to retire?  I didn't. 

    But, with Cunningham and Brace turning it on, now it's a "lot of money wasted"?  Not every player can make the team. It's a VERY good thing that veteran camp competition is cut, while BB cultivates younger players.

    All you frauds have done here for 3 years is whine about BB's moves as a personnel man and now going into 2012, when it appears he's whacked it out of the park, you'll run through a wall continually to deflect away from what Brady needs to do in January and February. Enough.  This team is LOADED. LOADED with experience, youth, depth, etc. You name it.   On offense, barring Rodgers's weapons in GB, this Pats team is as loaded as any offense in the league.  Throw in another nice looking draft from BB, and the D got two infusion pieces that should create a very good D for years to come. But, yeah, Robert Gallery retiring as a bubble swing player is just devastating to the checkbook. lol

    Further, Brady barely played in the preseason, which is why it appears he doesn't throw to Edelman. Not to mention, we know Brady has binkies which really only included Branch, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez.  Edelman is a very valued player here. PR, WR, DB and emergency QB. His presence allows BB to carry just 2 QBs and to add another body on the D Line.  This team is LOADED, but you drips want to whine?  Good lord.  Get laid, drink a beer.  Do anything so we don't have to read your pathetic, whiny, girly drivel. 

    Carpenter was caught in a numbers game and BB is playing more 4-2-5 anyway, which means people like Ebner or a Tavon Wilson are more important than a reserve LB.  Plus, Tracey White is the better STs LB and cheaper.

    You two are such a joke as fans. He signs absolute bargains because he handles the cap so well, FAs want to come here later in their careers, and because his draft picks now beat out the veteran camp competition, now and only now is BB not good in handling FA moves?  You're a joke. Lloyd was an incredibly smart move and cheap.  Our team is the ENVY of the NFL.  If you toads every left the NE area for 5 minutes you'd know this.

    Trevor Scott had a nice camp and made the club and it sounds like Gregory was a huge pick up based on he and Chung's chemistry in camp.  The last 3 years, BB has been FANTASTIC in spreading out the budget and getting needs, whether it was Crumpler in 2010 or what he did last year with Waters, Anderson and Carter.  You two complained last year at this time, too, warning about how great the Jets would be. LMAO

    If you two goobers want to root for the Jets, go do it.  Ugh.  Worst analysis by Pats fans I've seen.   You have little to no idea what a great job this is by BB becaause you two just aren't very bright.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    Well, they still need to fix some things here.  The quote came through, but my post didn't.  I'll try again-

    DEAR DEL GRIFFITH/RUSTY

    THIS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.  GET A CIVIL TONE, OR YOU WILL BE BANNED AGAIN.  WE HAVE HAD TIME WITHOUT YOU AND BABE AND WE REALIZED WE LOST OUR FORUM TO YOU NUTJOBS AND WE WILL NOT LOSE IT AGAIN.   I AM NOT FOOLING WITH YOU ANYMORE.  WE HAVE THE TOOLS NOW, AND THE CONTROL.   
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    I apologize for calling you a nutjob.  That is EXACTLY the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing. 
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    NOTHING you said addresses what I said.  CIVIL TONE was what I said.  And not responding every other comment and swelling a thread up with long answers in a running battle with whoever, but mostly with Babe.  NOTHING about not agreeing, or no arguing.  "The Board" feels YOU are a troll, so you shouldn't go down that road.  This is all I'm going to say on the matter.  
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:

    You have a double standard.   There are a handful of people here who don't like me because I don't have feelings for Tom Brady. That's too bad.

    I'm a diehard Pats fan. I have no issue with 95% of this board.  You and others seem to allow Jets fans to come in here and troll and then ban me, while protecting others who clearly violate more rules than I do.

    I would suggest putting me on ignore if you don't like my comments because you can't pretend I'm not a diehard fan.

    Here's a suggestion:  Make a Tom Brady section. Seriously.  Make that it's own section and the people who want to defend Brady to the the hilt, bash BB, make snide comments about a young D ascending and improving, etc, can all have a little party over there.

    The rest of us will talk Pats here.  This is a team game. I don't care about protecting Brady's legacy. 

     


    Uhm how can I put this politely? Ok, there isn't a handful of people that don't like you...it's a tad bigger than that (see change for the better thread that is 600 posts long - 90% about how glad we were that you were gone).

    See, I can take your moronish behavior, but in the end I just think you're a fraud. Kind of like a low level/low intelect fan...you know..the guy that watches the game, but really doesn't understand why this or that happened. That type of guy - plus you're rude:)

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:

    And the irony of you calling me a moron and then spelling intellect wrong as Davedsone sits idly by telling me I can't use that word.

    Oh, the irony. Talk about frauds.


    Now see, this is what you should be here for - not to discuss football - leave that to the adults, but spell checking! Listen I might post 7 or 8 times tomorrow, I'm going to need them spell checked for me pronto - if you can handle tha I'll give you something else to do. It's all about how much you can handle - if you can do more, I'll give you more, but you'll have to earn it.

    Who knows? Maybe some day I'll explain to you the diference between a first round pick running back and a undrafted free agent. Or if you really prove yourself I'll show you why having 16 million in unspent money over the last two years would of been better spent on players. But for now why don't you just spell check this for me and get a good night's sleep - I will be putting you to work tomorrow. PS, I left a couple of letters out just to test you...you can do it!!

     
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    Different handle, same old Rusty who is always wrong.

    Pending the outcome of the Fanene situation, which is no slam dunk for the Pats, there is $5.6 million in moneypaid to free agents that will not be on the team. I also see potential issues in the defensive back 4 with Gregory having been a role player (albeit solid) and Chung an injury waiting to happen. I also see depth issues with the OL which seems everyone else also sees the same.

    WHile I feel BB is the best coach I have seen in my lifetime, and also the best manager of salary in the cap era, this does not mean he does not make mistakes. In my opinion, what is fun about this board is debating these potential mistakes and the effects on the team...

    As usual, Rusty has criticized the post as trolling, yet is as usual silent on any of the points made on the post. Typical Rusty, no informed opinion to be had, only name calling, baiting, and trolling for arguements...

    And yes, I have "ignored" you but you keep changing your handle!    
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    I think both Gregory and Lloyd are solid, but not spectacular. Pats needed a playmake at WR and the defensive back field and still feel they did not get either


    Virtually all of the consensus top safeties either resigned with their original team or were franchised.  The others were not significantly higher rated than Gregory.

    If Lloyd who is basically coming off back to back 1000 yard seasons is not a playmaker at WR then who exactly was available that is?

    I don't think it is sufficient to just throw comments like that out there without considering the counterfactual.  Who could we have realistically gotten?  You've mentioned Webb previously, but he is a corner not a safety and would have cost major $$ and a first round pick.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I think both Gregory and Lloyd are solid, but not spectacular. Pats needed a playmake at WR and the defensive back field and still feel they did not get either


    Virtually all of the consensus top safeties either resigned with their original team or were franchised.  The others were not significantly higher rated than Gregory.




    If Lloyd who is basically coming off back to back 1000 yard seasons is not a playmaker at WR then who exactly was available that is?

    I don't think it is sufficient to just throw comments like that out there without considering the counterfactual.  Who could we have realistically gotten?  You've mentioned Webb previously, but he is a corner not a safety and would have cost major $$ and a first round pick.



    I would have paid Webb and given the draft choice. Short of that, I would have moved McCourtey to safety and moved up for Gilmore or Claiborne. I think Barron is much more a sure thing than Wilson. Not sure about Smith, but most everyone had him pretty highly ranked.

    WR's available too numerous to mention. Lloyd is 31 years old producing 2 great seasons where he was the only game available. Pats deal with him, and the fact that all other teams stayed away, and the fact that he has been on 5 teams in his career in my mind is a major red flag.

    I also thought that Seatle was moving on from Gallery due to performance, not injury. Surely a more sure thing than Gallery could have been had

    You recalled my earlier Webb comments, so you must also know I have been saying the same thing since week 2 of free agency when the Pats made these signings.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    Not to nitpick, but technically Lloyd is not coming off of two 1,000 yard seasons. He had 966 last year in 15 games. Honestly, it is hard to figure out what Lloyd is. He basically had one amazing season (with McDaniels) when he lead the league in receiving yards. Otherwise, he has never even been in the top 20. Last year, he actually averaged fewer yards per game with McDaniels in STL than he did in Denver.

    He is 31 years old (only two months younger than Welker) and on his sixth NFL team in ten seasons. Hopefully he and Brady will click in the regular season, but we definitely did not see that in the preseason.

    All that said, he probably was the best WR who was reaslistically available to them.

    My only really concern with this team is the OL. I assumed that Waters would be there by now. If Vollmer's back does not hold up, Cannon and Solder at the tackles don't fill me with confidence. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    I was half surprised Hoyer was cut. I expected him not to be resigned after this season but I thought they would keep him as Brady's backup because of his experience with the team. Mallet has the better physical skills and his rookie contract lines up better with Brady's expected retirement but he needs more time to develope.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    rkarp:

    The quoting thing on this new board format is whack.  Here is what I see from the WR perspective.  Top Free agents (restricted and unrestricted) were Wallace, Bowe, V Jax, Steve Johnson, Lloyd, Colston and DeSean Jackson.

    Wallace is looking for "Larry Fitz" money and would have cost a 1st rounder in addition.  Bowe was franchised and Johnson, DeSean and Colston resigned with their respective teams (in addition I am not a huge fan of either of the first 2 and Colston imo would not have added a new dimension to the offense).  That leaves Lloyd and V Jax.  V Jax was signed to a huge contract that is incredibly frontloaded because the Bucs had a huge amount of cap space.  I do not think NE could have reasonably outdone that contract given the space they used to resign Gronk and Hernandez and it would have been impossible had they signed Webb.

    As for the secondary if they had signed Webb or had moved up like you wanted it would have cost at least one of our first round picks.  I'll be generous and assume we would have lost out on Hightower.  I don't see how that is worth it particularly since you are concerned about Spikes' durability.  In addition you are assuming that McCourty could play safety at a high level.  I don't think the verdict is out on that by any means.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    rkarp:

    The quoting thing on this new board format is whack.  Here is what I see from the WR perspective.  Top Free agents (restricted and unrestricted) were Wallace, Bowe, V Jax, Steve Johnson, Lloyd, Colston and DeSean Jackson.

    Wallace is looking for "Larry Fitz" money and would have cost a 1st rounder in addition.  Bowe was franchised and Johnson, DeSean and Colston resigned with their respective teams (in addition I am not a huge fan of either of the first 2 and Colston imo would not have added a new dimension to the offense).  That leaves Lloyd and V Jax.  V Jax was signed to a huge contract that is incredibly frontloaded because the Bucs had a huge amount of cap space.  I do not think NE could have reasonably outdone that contract given the space they used to resign Gronk and Hernandez and it would have been impossible had they signed Webb.

    As for the secondary if they had signed Webb or had moved up like you wanted it would have cost at least one of our first round picks.  I'll be generous and assume we would have lost out on Hightower.  I don't see how that is worth it particularly since you are concerned about Spikes' durability.  In addition you are assuming that McCourty could play safety at a high level.  I don't think the verdict is out on that by any means.



    I would have kicked the tires (and maybe the Pats did) on Colston, Meacham, Wayne, Simpson, Garcon, Avery in addition to Lloyd

    I would have also forfeited Hightower for a WR, and assumed Fletcher, Tarpinian, Carpenter could back up SPikes..

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sheldong. Show sheldong's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    I'm baffled.  I just checked in after a long off-season and read the beginning posts in this thread.  What was all the bytching and moaning about and where was the lack of civility? 

    I saw the original post which gave his comments, and the second post commented on those.  Then Davedsone made a long comment on those.  Fine, that is what these boards are for -- comments on football.

    Then Davedsone complained about someone, a del griffith/rusty.  I never even saw a post by him/her/them.  He called that/those posters a nutjob.  What is all this about?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What were the surprises this summer ( and not)

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:

    Gilmore right now doesn't even look good, but you would have traded UP? You would have paid Webb?

    Are you wondering why people laught at your comments? My good god. We needed a pass rush and you want hyped up CBs?



    Gilmore imo is going to be a stud. Big, ball hawk, always around the ball.

    I would have paid Webb, which I said 2-3 months ago. Young, playmaker, comes up big in big games. Always around the ball.

    Signing Webb would not have precluded draftying Jones and Bequette, and most likely Wilson could have been passed over (McCourtey would slide to Safety) and either an ILB or OL drafted in rd #2
    Rd#1-Jones
    Rd#1-trade pick for Webb
    Rd#2-draft safety or OL
    Rd#3-draft pass rusher
     
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