When is a good time to be critical?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to TheRealBustchise's comment:


    Don't you mean first round bust that BB traded up for Rasi Dowling?



    Lol your to stupid to know that A) he wasn't a first round pick, and B) we didn't trade up for him. Educate yourself you ignorant troll!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    Good points, but I'll tell you this happens every single year. It just does. As good a team as we may think we have, we have questions...questions that may linger all year. The good news is we have great coaching and great quarterbacking play, that alone will get us into the playoffs. Now once we get there the better teams usually punch us in the face, but if we can fill some of those holes and get a little luck we may go a little further. It all depends on what you consider to be a success, is it just making the playoffs, or is it going all the way?

    Luck is a part of it as well, of Gronk stays healthy?? I could see a Super Bowl this year...of not? Realistically we won't have enough on offense to get there.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradysgirlforreal. Show Bradysgirlforreal's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    Still puzzled by the Pats not taking the TE from IOWA, (he was taken at 65th pickPats took Garrapalo with the  62nd pick), when TE depth was an issue?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Without many here jumping down my throat?

     

    Many of us have posted here for a few months now about some perceived holes on this team.

     

    TE. Now that Williams is injured, Jones and Watson cut, here we are, with Gronk and Hooman. Many of us were concerned about this months ago. Count me as still concerned. 

     

    DT. Many of us were nervous about the depth due to Vince and Kelley coming off injury and age. Now Sil and Jones are missing all of preseason, maybe more, and Easley has not seen the field yet. And Vince and Kelley are still old. Anyone watching the waiver wires? 

     

    RB. Ridley first carry, spins, gets hit and bobbles the ball. Can Vareen stay healthy? 2 RB's already cut, with rumbles that Bolden is next. Team looks to be breaking camp with 3 RB's. 

     

    LB. I really thought Anderson was going to help. I have now watched 7 practices and 1 preseason game. I am not sure Anderson makes this team. I was surprised Beauharnis was not cut last year. ILB that weighs 230lbs. Really looked out of place Thursday and was continuously out of position. Yet, Fletch, Eddes, Tarp all gone. 




    Actually I think you're being a bit over sensitive and melodramatic but that's OK, some people don't handle being disagreed with very well.

    Do you have any solutions to offer regarding these flaws in the team? I'd love to hear them. Thanks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to Section136's comment:



    Actually I think you're being a bit over sensitive and melodramatic but that's OK, some people don't handle being disagreed with very well.

    Do you have any solutions to offer regarding these flaws in the team? I'd love to hear them. Thanks.




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    And that was the problem. Have you not been around the last couple of offseasons? People like Rkarp, Pro, TFB, and myself have had our fanship questioned, been called negative Nancy's, BB bashers, trolls, and a lot of other things for expressing our opinions about the issues listed above that now everyone agrees exists. And it wasn't all by Rusty either.

    If you want suggestions on how to fix it, just go back 4-6 months on the forums and you'll see the suggestions and the reactions to those suggestions that have lead to this thread.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

    There is no wrong time to be critical.  It's more a matter of degree.  Also, when one criticizes it's good not to come across in a way that suggests that one has inside information, or actually has expertise in this field.  I'll  be the first to admit, I don't always get why BB does the things he does, when it comes to matters of personnel.  However, I'm wise enough to understand that what needs to be done and how it needs to be done are not nearly as obvious as some here would have us believe.  Until BB's production begins showing signs of decline, I will continue to gladly defer to his judgment. 




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    What a great post. Needless to say, I agree 100%.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    Come on Rkarp, you know it's never a good time to be critical. People will always find fault in something you say and rush to defend something. I've learned over the past couple of years that regardless if you're right or how legitimate your concern is in the end it's why are you questioning, do you think you know better? I mean honestly, not many will admit they did but here's some things I got seriously jumped on from over the last couple years:



    • Signing Amendola over Welker

    • Cautioning over getting too excited about Armstead

    • Thinking A. Wilson wasn't starter quality anymore

    • Wanting BB to spend on quality starters instead of trying to sign 5 nickles and calling it a quarter

    • Thinking the DT position was really thin last year

    • Not getting Vereen a proper 3rd down backup last year

    • Not having a vet pass rusher to spell Nink and Jones last year

    • The TE position looked awfully thin this year going into offseason

    • Not getting a better vet WR this offseason

    • Saying the OL we drafted might take a few years and not liking their injury issues in college

    • Thinking the LB position was thin going into the offseason and not thinking a 2nd FA period one would do the trick

    • Saying 2nd FA period and cut vets aren't as good as people think they are


    No I'm not always right but I never understood why I got so much dumped on me for the above statements being called a BB basher, hater, troll, and what not (and no I'm not just talking about Rusty) when all the above were obvious and legitimate concerns. There's being negative and there's be realistic and people have trouble seeing the difference when they have their blinders on.


     


    Trust me, I'm an engineer!





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    When I read patseng's post I feel like he is 


    talking about the Raiders or any perennial loser and not a team who just made it to 3 straight afc championship games.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

    There is no wrong time to be critical.  It's more a matter of degree.  Also, when one criticizes it's good not to come across in a way that suggests that one has inside information, or actually has expertise in this field.  I'll  be the first to admit, I don't always get why BB does the things he does, when it comes to matters of personnel.  However, I'm wise enough to understand that what needs to be done and how it needs to be done are not nearly as obvious as some here would have us believe.  Until BB's production begins showing signs of decline, I will continue to gladly defer to his judgment. 




    Well said. 

    I would also add that one can disagree with a criticism without getting personal, support a decision made by a proven professional without being a ball-washer and suggest that perhaps the benefit of the doubt in a questionable decision may accrue to that same proven professional.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    When I read patseng's post I feel like he is 

    talking about the Raiders or any perennial loser and not a team who just made it to 3 straight afc championship games.


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    Was I wrong about those things? Were those things I mentioned weaknesses of the team in those years?

    Why is it the 1 post up you agree 100% you should be critical of the team yet right here you do the exact opposite and say any criticism makes it seem like I'm talking about the Raiders? You're talking out both sides of your mouth in back to back posts

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    When I read patseng's post I feel like he is 

    talking about the Raiders or any perennial loser and not a team who just made it to 3 straight afc championship games.


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    Was I wrong about those things? Were those things I mentioned weaknesses of the team in those years?

    Why is it the 1 post up you agree 100% you should be critical of the team yet right here you do the exact opposite and say any criticism makes it seem like I'm talking about the Raiders? You're talking out both sides of your mouth in back to back posts



    I had also assumed that any comments made were taken within the context that yes the team is winning the division year in and year out, but all of us want SB wins

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to Bradysgirlforreal's comment:



     




    Still puzzled by the Pats not taking the TE from IOWA, (he was taken at 65th pickPats took Garrapalo with the  62nd pick), when TE depth was an issue?




     





    There are two possible reasons for this:


     


     


    1.  The Pats really liked Garapollo at 62


     


    2. The Pats weren't that impressed with the available TEs at 62


     


    Belichick is (wisely) not going to let need trump value in the draft.  Note, though, I agree that the Pats have a weaknesses in TE depth.  I hope this demonstrates how one can have legitimate concerns about talent at a position without necessarily thinking BB made a mistake.  I'm sure BB has concerns too.  He didn't get this good without being honest about the talent he has and doesn't have.


     


     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

    There is no wrong time to be critical.  It's more a matter of degree.  Also, when one criticizes it's good not to come across in a way that suggests that one has inside information, or actually has expertise in this field.  I'll  be the first to admit, I don't always get why BB does the things he does, when it comes to matters of personnel.  However, I'm wise enough to understand that what needs to be done and how it needs to be done are not nearly as obvious as some here would have us believe.  Until BB's production begins showing signs of decline, I will continue to gladly defer to his judgment. 




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    What a great post. Needless to say, I agree 100%.



    Defensively, I usually preface all comments with " I am not an expert", or " in my opinion"

    my comments 90% of the time are based simply on what I see, not as an "expert"

    lastly, no one is an expert that is not on the team. However I often times have chance to see practice standing beside Yates, Bedard ( past years) Carpenter and numerous others who are highly qualified to make judgement. When I "heard" something, I am simply parroting what they may have said. 

    Of course, there is an easy fix if what I post offends you, put me on ignore

    I openly questioned if I was going to post after practices attended this year. Yes, as Rusty said, I am one of those guys typing my phone or tablet rather than sometimes watching. But I am having fun posting. Sorry it bothers you

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    (Points entered here removed for space saving purposes)

    Belichick is (wisely) not going to let need trump value in the draft.  Note, though, I agree that the Pats have a weaknesses in TE depth.  I hope this demonstrates how one can have legitimate concerns about talent at a position without necessarily thinking BB made a mistake.  I'm sure BB has concerns too.  He didn't get this good without being honest about the talent he has and doesn't have.



    In my opinion, this is a very well and clearly stated observation.  It also happens to be an opinion with which I am in complete agreement. 

    To make my own view crystal clear, I am also not happy with the Pats TE position but do not believe that it would have been a better choice to select one in this year's draft.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    It is OK to criticize, in my book, as long as you do not sound like a broken record, like some here do, spinning the same criticism over and over again ad nauseum. 

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    It is OK to criticize, in my book, as long as you do not sound like a broken record, like some here do, spinning the same criticism over and over again ad nauseum. 

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!



    Is your reference to the constant criticism of Brady?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    It is OK to criticize, in my book, as long as you do not sound like a broken record, like some here do, spinning the same criticism over and over again ad nauseum. 

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!



    Is your reference to the constant criticism of Brady?



    ..and BB by some.  All who think they know how to run the team better than the team itself. (-;
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    It is OK to criticize, in my book, as long as you do not sound like a broken record, like some here do, spinning the same criticism over and over again ad nauseum. 

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!



    Is your reference to the constant criticism of Brady?



    ..and BB by some.  All who think they know how to run the team better than the team itself. (-;
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    Hmmm...I find the BB comments mostly positive. 

    "Best coach in the NFL"...."in BB we trust"....etc, etc

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    Wow, emotions are running high for you guys? 

    Eng, I'm sorry pal but your list of "faults" or whatever is extensive and would typically be made for teams who have numerous problems and don't win. I'm all for a fans right to be critical of a team, believe me I do it all the time, but to suggest BB is making multiple mistakes that could have simply been prevented by doing the many things you mentioned is a tad ridiculous Imo.

    And Karp we appreciate any analysis coming from a guy with your first hand insight, and nobody wants to put you on ignore just because you have been critical of a this team for the last however many years. This happens to all teams who portray dominance for such a long period of time. Fans expectations grow to unrealistic heights and we start admonishing the team for not turning out great back up QBs who win super bowls on other teams and other weird scenarios. 
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Wow, emotions are running high for you guys? 

    Eng, I'm sorry pal but your list of "faults" or whatever is extensive and would typically be made for teams who have numerous problems and don't win. I'm all for a fans right to be critical of a team, believe me I do it all the time, but to suggest BB is making multiple mistakes that could have simply been prevented by doing the many things you mentioned is a tad ridiculous Imo.

    And Karp we appreciate any analysis coming from a guy with your first hand insight, and nobody wants to put you on ignore just because you have been critical of a this team for the last however many years. This happens to all teams who portray dominance for such a long period of time. Fans expectations grow to unrealistic heights and we start admonishing the team for not turning out great back up QBs who win super bowls on other teams and other weird scenarios. 
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    You forgot to include ( sarcasm) at the end

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Hmmm...I find the BB comments mostly positive. 

    "Best coach in the NFL"...."in BB we trust"....etc, etc



    I think for the most part this is true.  There are, however, a conspicuous minority who are highly critical of BB's GM-level decision making on a routine and continuing basis.  I do agree that negative comments regarding BB's coaching decisions are rare.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    It is OK to criticize, in my book, as long as you do not sound like a broken record, like some here do, spinning the same criticism over and over again ad nauseum. 

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!



    Is your reference to the constant criticism of Brady?




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    That's another thing. Only 1 guy here criticizes Brady and all you have to do is what you suggested earlier in the thread...ignore him. I personally don't have him on ignore but I probably haven't responded to him in a year. What's the point? He's delusional. 

    I'm still holding out hope that the anti BB crowd will realize they are much like rusty in their over the top criticism of the dynasty builders methods.. Except that pezz guy, he is in rustys category of ignorance.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Wow, emotions are running high for you guys? 

    Eng, I'm sorry pal but your list of "faults" or whatever is extensive and would typically be made for teams who have numerous problems and don't win. I'm all for a fans right to be critical of a team, believe me I do it all the time, but to suggest BB is making multiple mistakes that could have simply been prevented by doing the many things you mentioned is a tad ridiculous Imo.

    And Karp we appreciate any analysis coming from a guy with your first hand insight, and nobody wants to put you on ignore just because you have been critical of a this team for the last however many years. This happens to all teams who portray dominance for such a long period of time. Fans expectations grow to unrealistic heights and we start admonishing the team for not turning out great back up QBs who win super bowls on other teams and other weird scenarios. 
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    You forgot to include ( sarcasm) at the end




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    No sarcasm intended. I am a Pats fan and a guy like you would be the last I ignore. You get to see these guys first hand, any fan appreciates that, even if it comes from a guy who knows an awful lot about the jets.

    *sarcasm.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Wow, emotions are running high for you guys? 

    Eng, I'm sorry pal but your list of "faults" or whatever is extensive and would typically be made for teams who have numerous problems and don't win. I'm all for a fans right to be critical of a team, believe me I do it all the time, but to suggest BB is making multiple mistakes that could have simply been prevented by doing the many things you mentioned is a tad ridiculous Imo.

    And Karp we appreciate any analysis coming from a guy with your first hand insight, and nobody wants to put you on ignore just because you have been critical of a this team for the last however many years. This happens to all teams who portray dominance for such a long period of time. Fans expectations grow to unrealistic heights and we start admonishing the team for not turning out great back up QBs who win super bowls on other teams and other weird scenarios. 
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    True you didn't answer the question, were they not faults and did they not hurt us? What's ridiculous is to close you eyes to something that obvious and write it off. I thought the point of every offseason was to get better? Wouldn't finding those faults and correcting them the point of the offseason?

    BB seemed to agree considering most of those faults I listed last offseason that can back to haunt the team BB seems to have adjusted this offseason and addressed. But, you must think BB is ridiculous since he did exactly what I suggested he do to prevent the same mistakes from last year. If you didn't know what those were here you go:

    • Spent money on a more durable consistent CB (Revis over Talib)
    • Got Vereen a proper backup (drafted White)
    • Added a vet pass rusher to a thin DE group (signed Smith)
    • Spent a high draft pick on a young high talented player to take over the starting DT position (Easley)

    These were things I suggested in the 13' offseason and he adjusted and did them this offseason so BB recognized those mistakes and corrected them. Next year when they sign a TE or draft one if it turns out to be a weakness this year, will you say that's ridiculous too?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: When is a good time to be critical?

    Now is as good as any to be critical, I'm just not sure I agree with all of it.

    I think most of us are really surprised that TE wasn't adressed in the draft or by signing Keller or Finley. The position is thin, and - Gronk aside - doesn't give much in the versatility-department. Others have listed the reasons why this may be, count me as one who is still surprised. I can only assume that a) it means Develin is a lock, 2) they carry 7 WR's (Edelman, Dobson, Amendola, KT, Lafell, Boyce, Slater).


    DT. Being critical means saying that something should have been done another way. I think they were, and maybe still are, banking on the health of Wilfork, Kelly, Easley. It's a setback with the new injuries, and with Armstead retiring, no doubt about it. However, I still see this as possibly a position of strength. I guess we'll have to see.

    RB. A little surprised to hear that Bolden may get cut, but I'm not that crazy about him in the first place. I thought he had issues in the passing game last year, if White can give some more there, and maybe even take some snaps from Ridley, then it's fine by me.

    LB. The top 3 are good, depth behind them is questionable. Pre-season, let's see them in games etc., etc. It's a legitimate concern.

    As for the "is it allowed to be critical"-debate. This board is polarizing. We are labelled as either trolls or pinkhats, haters or morons, BBW'ers or BB-lovers, cynical or naïve. It's not always pleasant.

    Despite all the bickering, this forum is by far my most visited webpage, there are tons of great posters, good debate, lots of opinions and insight. I think it's a shame if people stop posting out of concern they might get verbally killed. Differing opinions are essential to a debate forum.


    Supra societatem nemo

     
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