Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    Someone mentioned above that you can't blame the secondary because of the poor job the front seven did...why not? On more than a few occassions Arington was beat so quickly and so badly that no pass rush would of helped (as it turns out there was none, but it didn't matter). A pass rush also is not going to help McCourty and Gregory make a tackle that a pop warner player could of made either. And when is Dowling going to contribute? Guys that were taken at the top of the second round aren't supposed to do as little as this guy has over the time he's been here.

    I DO think a pass rush would help, but bredbru has a point...the secondary is poor. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:
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    In response to MattC05's comment:
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    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
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    I may be in the minority, but other than the few poor penalties McCourty had I thought he was solid. 

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    I said the same thing in another thread.  The only bad plays McCourty had were the final PI and the whiffed tackle on Pitta's touchdown.  Other than that, he actually had a fantastic game, and looked better in coverage than he has in 2 years.

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    AGree. If the D Line and front 7 played better, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  BdBreu doesn't know the game of football and very may be a troll.

    He can't put it together that the pass rush is tied to the secondary, just like it is for every single NFL team.

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    no, no one here knows that mr iq

    ignore

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to patsfan76's comment:
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    In response to ClifordWasHere's comment:
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    McCourty will be a top 5 CB by the end of the year.  He has already played better than Revis.  The Jets were getting burned with Revis playing this year.  They now have the two worst starting CBs in the NFL.  Bust Kylie Wilson will be exposed when he starts for the first time in his career.  Cromartie will now have the spotlight on him as he holds on every play and will be exposed trying to handle Lloyd.

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    I dont know what to say to this. I Guess you would be right about him being better than Revis THIS year because Revis is OUT for the year but why on earth you wanna put yourself on record as saying # 32 will be top 5 by years end is beyond me. I dont even expect that or need that from him. Just make the plays when they present themselves. Do you realize how many starting CBs are out there. 32 times 2 is what? 64! and you think Devin will be in the top 5??? based on what?? Your Homerism and love for cheering on and propping up garbage defenders??   Always talking about Kyle Wilson but heres the thing bro, Wilson has gotten much better since his rookie year and will have a chance to start. He hasnt regressed like McCourty so stop saying silly stuff that dont make any sense

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    Lol this is at least the 2nd time you've lashed out at fake Rusty. Lay off the reefer my friend!

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to p-mike's comment:
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    Maybe they're having pina coladas at Trader Vicks.

     

     

     

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    OOOOWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    Hey didn't Mr. Secondary and Salary Cap Expert suggest we trade Brady after the Cardinals game and start Mallett? Bawahahaha!! Yeah let's listen to a guy that knows nothing about football! Hey how is your future hall of fame offensive guard (Thomas) doing?  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
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    We could have had Ty Law and Mike Haynes out there and they would have been left out to dry by the pass rush.  There is a reason that BB refuses to hand out huge contracts that the top CBs command and chooses to use draft picks and guys off the street.  The best corners in the world aren't going to do squat with no pressure on the QB.  Flacco had all day to throw.  You can't spend big money on every position on the team.  The Ravens handed out 10 million a year to Webb and what good did it do against Brady when he had all day to throw.  Top tier corners alone do not win Super Bowls.

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    Except Law and Haynes would have actually caught the 2 intereceptions that McCourty butter-fingered and the one where Arrington fell on his ar$e. It's called "ball skills." Our CB's have none.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    Pretty hard to cover when the QB has all day to throw.. for anyone.  Still, I don't like them.  But since they are the CBs we have right now, what is the point in going on and on like you can DO something about it?  All you people who want to run the team by mail make me laugh.  

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Someone mentioned above that you can't blame the secondary because of the poor job the front seven did...why not? On more than a few occassions Arington was beat so quickly and so badly that no pass rush would of helped (as it turns out there was none, but it didn't matter). A pass rush also is not going to help McCourty and Gregory make a tackle that a pop warner player could of made either. And when is Dowling going to contribute? Guys that were taken at the top of the second round aren't supposed to do as little as this guy has over the time he's been here.

    I DO think a pass rush would help, but bredbru has a point...the secondary is poor. 

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    Fair enough, but the question here is can we win a SB with the current secondary.  I think with a decent pass rush there is enough raw ability for them to be effective enough.  Brdbreu seems to think we need a top 5 secondary to win a SB.  I don't agree.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Someone mentioned above that you can't blame the secondary because of the poor job the front seven did...why not? On more than a few occassions Arington was beat so quickly and so badly that no pass rush would of helped (as it turns out there was none, but it didn't matter). A pass rush also is not going to help McCourty and Gregory make a tackle that a pop warner player could of made either. And when is Dowling going to contribute? Guys that were taken at the top of the second round aren't supposed to do as little as this guy has over the time he's been here.

    I DO think a pass rush would help, but bredbru has a point...the secondary is poor. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough, but the question here is can we win a SB with the current secondary.  I think with a decent pass rush there is enough raw ability for them to be effective enough.  Brdbreu seems to think we need a top 5 secondary to win a SB.  I don't agree.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, and that's fair enough too. I remember us winning with Troy Brown and no Ty Law back there, but that front seven was much different than this one. So yeah I do think you can win with a poor secondary.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    A few minor differences and distinctions, need to be made right here...

    #1.  Darrelle Revis can get away with j#cking guys up and simply holding wideouts at the LOS, simply because he's allowed to...I could say the exact same thing for Patrick Peterson as well.  Ty Law and Mike Haynes could get away with the same thing for instance, because that was the lay of the land, and was 100% commonly accepted and non-penalized type of insanely physical and RARELY (1 in a million) penalty-inducing called press coverage play allowed even just 10 years ago, and on and on back in time.  Devin McCourty on the otherhand, faked an arm jab at the LOS against Balti's #1 WR in the 4th quarter, which resulted in this "ghost-jab" (watch the game, PatsFan76 knows by exactly what he's saying thus far)- Being enough to alter and fluster the WR enough to brace for it at the point, And he gets called for a Holding Penalty at the line, resulting in a 1st down.  Did you even SEE that play?!?  Hear the announcers...!?!  Hilarious when even paid NFL apologists say during the replay: #1 Announcer: "You tell me if it's a penalty?" #2 Announcer: "LOL...Ahhh, Let's just keep those renogiations wide open, 'kay guys...?" <i.e. Officials>

     

    #2.  Yea...good cal- Kyle Wilson picked 1 or 2 spots within DMC is OBVIOUSLY better...  Wherein DMC has manned the #1 starting CB (and/or strongside/lead position matchup) for 3 straight years now...On THE 1st game of rookie year #1 (someone on here recently commented otherwise...and they're flat-out wrong)- Kyle Wilson, on the otherhand, Now gets the opportunity to play more nickel and even some CB duty's vs the oppositions #2-#2 WR in NY's #2 CB spot....  Yahhhh, Kyle Wilson!!!  Thus, Kyle Wilson=Already, 1000X the CB that Devin McCourty, was, has been, and will ever be.  More great analysises and assessments...Oh, and DEFINATELY clearly rationalized and unbiased.

    #3.  DMC DID have all of 2-100% fault-worthy bad plays last game...  That very last PD during the final drive after being targeted somewhere in the vicinity of every pass play thus far in that contest (pretty close lmao) and playing exceptionally well <you guys are aware that ALL NFL QBs in this day and age, complete somewhere in the range of 2 outta every 3 pass, or 3 outta 5 on a bad outting, or 3 outta every 4 on a decent outting- throwing for on average of 270+ yards, 2 TDs, at an 8 yard clip avg or so, right? =AVERAGE NFL QB'ing day>  Meanwhile DMC thus far this year has a few KR's for something like a 24 yard average, then what?  16 or 17 TTs, a few more TFLs, and somewhere in the range of 6 or more PDs after just 3 games... Yes, I'm sorry he doesn't have any INTs for pick 6's yet.  DMC's 2nd "bad" play came on that Gregory missed tackle, of which Gregory missed the tackle so bad even upon having the sidelines to puch the guy out of bounds on, that I was just as bewildered & dumbfounded watching that broken Tackle as McCourty apparently was on the field directly behind Gregory during that blown miss (yup, STILL unexcusable for DMC however).

    #4.  Pass-Rush vs Secondary play...  I'll keep this simple:  WhoInTH again has just stated that allowing an oppossing QB to play an entire contest with not only 0 Sacks on him...But ZERO even HITS against him, PLUS (on top of this passing affordability offered by your non-existant Front 7), ALSO allowed the opposing side's lead RB to trounce around the field for a 5 yard a clip average every time he touched the ball- WHO again, wishes to go on record to state that this actually Does Little to Nothing, to detrimentally affect the coverage capabilities of the member's of your Secondary during and when this occurs up front?!? 

     

    Again...Without the Gregory INT returned to Balti's own 6, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because NE loses 31-23 instead.  Without HS ref's calling every Mayo touch a PI, every receiver bump, a holding, and every play with the pass in the air some form of defensive penalty somewhere, somehow, and for some reason- We wouldn't be having this discussion either.  And in the same way, IF NE's Offense could actually run the final 4 minutes and 2 seconds off the clock when they took possession at the end of the game (vs not even making it to the 2 minute warning, upon even being blessed with not 1, but f##!ng 2! 1st downs based on Raven's penalties within that short span, we wouldn't be having this discussion either.  I believe we had 8 plays on that drive + 2 Ravens Penalties...4 minutes with the lead...And NE passed the ball on 2nd and 8 (Incompletion to Lloyd), 3rd and 8 (Penalty on Ed Reed's hit), 1st and 10, 2nd and 9, and 3rd and 17 (after a Sack on 2nd and 9) <with the 1 more penalty being called by the m#r#n ref's on our behalf as an unsportsmanlike conduct on Harbaraugh when he was attempting to call a TO).  Do you guys ALSO believe that 3 shotgun plays, and 5 pass plays total...during your 8 play drive in total...AS you have the lead with 4 minutes and 2 seconds left in the game, Happens to be the very BET way to run out the clock and keep the lead secure using your Offense, atthe end of the day...?

     

    The terribly limited scope that far too many of the current crop of posters, sees the game played under and bracketed around, is SO lacking, that it makes this board utterly untolerable to be on for even any nominally versed Fan with the most basic of basics knowledge about the game of football.  It makes ME more intolerable discussing these things to REALLY, really, small-minded in their scope & vision, NFL Fans. 

    There is UN-questionably=ZERO other NFL position like NFL CB, that is so taxing, so exacting, least rewarding, and has so many precise variables that WILL go against you, like #1 NFL starting CB...NONE.  Little to zero rewards, scr#w up 1 time in a game, after cliving up to par for the remaining 59 minutes, and you svck.  1-1's all day long, in an open field where you are all alone in the spotlight.  In today's flag-happy, can-NOT-graze-the-receiver-with-your-pinky NFL.   And then ya add in fun additionals that Will AND DO, affect your play, like a shotgun based zero clock-managing, pass-happy Offense on your side's O, A front 7 giving up a 5 yard run game average up front, and offering up 0 Sacks, and 0 QB hits...And a suddenly foot-off-the-gass, changing Secondary Scheme in-game from press-man to off-man randoms in not just "off-man" to man coverage, but oftenimes zone too, from drive to drive (noteably whenever NE takes the lead, and/or has the lead come the 1st drive opponent's starting of the 2nd half)...And GOOD God!?!?  It becomes an absolutely HOPELESS...Utterly and completely HOPELESS endeavor to place anyone in, after these additionals become accounted for.  TOTALLY Hopeless...

    (Mmm, further evidenced by the simple fact that even after our forever blame-worthy CB plays a good game, He s#cks.  Do you guys cast the same degree of blame on random plays up front, such as when a DT could have had an open lane to the QB on a pass-rush, but failed to get there...Orrr, when a RB breaks by a DT held up and bested by an O-Lineman, allowing for the runner to break into the 2nd level into the LBs and the Secondary?  DO you scrutinize each and every SINGLE one of these guys' individual efforts and plays, in the same manner?  By the answer's on here, the conclusion is that there are less and less NFL Fans who actually ever TOOK the field, and suited up in a team sport.  This is what I apparently understand from reading this forum:  Every single person and player on Offense is NEVER culpable of performing bad (unless you're an O-Linmen during a Brady Sack, at which case you are ALWAYS at fault), No Special Teams are ever held blame-worthy.  NO-one...and I mean NOoo-one up on the D-Line is ever blame-worthy for underperforming.  LBs are only blame-worthy for bad plays in so much as they take the screen-shot and whiff, or are penalized...Other than that, outta sight, and outta blame.  Safeties...Nope- Haha, not even for a SECOND.  They do their own thing-  They make a good play and kudos...other than that, IF and whenever they're nowhere near the ball or play-direction, that's O.k..

    Pass resulting in a pass-catch=Cornerback fails yet again.  Other team wins, and the opposing side scored more, sealed the win, scored in the 2nd half, had more than 16 yards in the air all game=Cornerback's failure- 100%.

     

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    ^ Sod, name this movie quote (based on your OP on 1): "She could be a farmer in those clothes..."

    Yea...Definately hope Tavon Wilson turns out good.  Probably I saw in his gametape from College, has shown up a few X already= Tavon Wilson: ALWAYS around the ball...simply GREAT knack for diagnosing greater or lesser overall play direction...just doesn't live up to, when it comes down to the final act of making a stop (and/or great play) on the ball-carrier/pass-catcher, himself.  No doubt, certainly above par for a Rook...BUT I will go to my grave saying that NE could've secured Tavon Wilson, graded not even as a 7th Rd-UDFA, but simply an UDFA, in the 7th Rd, and CERTAINLY in the 6th Rd by trading down a few spots in 3, 4, or 5... That pick could've solidified any of 3 players: WR Mohammed Sanu of Rutgers, or my 2 preferences of either- All-American Center Peter Konz of Stanford, or finally my guy (who's name obviously is the 1 I forgot), that 6'5 310lb DT out of Penn State with that lightning quick 1st step.

    Yea...RE: McCourty- He probably WILL be a Top 5 CB, upon looking at his complete stats at season's end, particularly those of a complete CB within: TTs, PDs, TFLs, and INTs combined and in exact comparison to any and every other NFL CB.  NE Pats Fans rest assured, will STILL be calling him the worst CB to ever suit up in pro ball. 

    Whether or not whom HAS, or Does not have, a Great Season...Make no mistake- Bredbru meanwhile, will STILL come on here, in order to congratulate himself on "making the call" on how each and every single Pats Player played beforehand.  I mean, he said Arrington and Moore were NE's #1 CBs...and nowww?  =I guess Arrington's out.  Same with Ridley...  Sod, did YOU know that bredbru "made the call" on Ridley's skills after his very FIRST preseason game last year?!?  Sure, sure, there was roughly 20 of us whom chimed in post draft RE: Ridley upon someone providing us with an LSU gametape of his, that showed how good he was, but which wasn't put together until after draft day (yet, WELL prior to 2011 preseason game 1)...But, Bred "made the call."  He's made lots'a "correct calls", actually...  It's just that we need to be reminded of them, because noone save for himself, has ever witnessed him doing so...even once (I'm actually gonna fill out a Fantasy Team solely based on who bredbru doesn't like...I will MILLIONS; IF I find out he actually HATES a certain player and says he REALLY svx...man- I'll put that guy on Offense, Defense, Special Teams...b/c I'll know without any doubt whatsoever, that this guy will have a year of football that will actually make some notation in Canton).  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Where are all the people who attacked my assessment of our cbs over the past 2 years, esp mcc and arring

    The DB's are a mixed bag and I don't put complete blame on them but they do deserve some responsibility. Here's my assessment so far:

     

    McCourty - Closer to 10' then 11' so far but not up to his rookie year standards yet. A number of plays people blame on him were actually scheme based (ie zone where he passed to the S but the S was late to over the top coverage) or lack of a pass rush at times (no CB can hold for more then 5s). He's got some things to improve on but he is starting caliber CB, just not a top 10 CB this year, yet

    Arrington - Arrington is what Arrington is. I said it before and will say it again. He's a bottom #2 CB or a very good #3 CB. As such he's going to get beat and get beat bad at times. Unlike McCourty you can't look at scheme or time as a factor as much with Arrington and what we've seen so far is what to expect. He's hit his ceiling and if looking for starting CB money next year he'll be gone

    Moore - Has completely disappeared. Last year he showed a ton on promise and looked like he was improving but has taken a giant step backwards. Call it a sophmore slump but he needs to start improving quickly.

    Ras - much like Moore has taken a step backwards but unlike Moore has shown flashes that his ability is still intact. BB using his as the slot CB shows a lot of faith in the kid seeing as most teams slot WR/TE are the 2nd target on the field now a days. If he can get over the hump I expect him to be the #2 starting CB by the end of the year. He's still got a ways to go before hitting his ceiling

    Dennard - Dennard needs to get on the field. To me he's made some rook mistakes but his potential is much higher then Moores as shown in pre-season. It might take half a season for him to get reps but I think by the end of the year our 3 main CB's might be McCourty, Ras, and Dennard

    Cole - #6 CB need I say more?

    Chung - Chung has been one of the best on the field for the DB core people might laugh at me for this, considering many feel like he's been out of position, but between the DC using them as jumping jacks trying to disguise coverages and Chungs role as main TE coverage he's positioned himself nicely to keep plays infront of him while minimizing the TE. He's done very well so far

    Gregory - hard to get a read on him. Sometimes he looks like a top 10 FS and at others he's completely out of position and late getting to the ball. He needs to be more consistent helping the undernether coverage by covering overtop. A number of the long passes last week were do to him being late in coverage or being out of position

    Wilson - Needs to play more. The kid is better then practicully all of us thought coming out of the gate except for a select few. In his limited role he's excelled. I'm not sure he's ready to take a large leap to a more prominant role but he's certainly earned a consistent spot in nickel and dime coverages.

    Ebner - is a project but has looked his part when in the box. He's still getting up to speed with the game and has a lot to learn but he's progressing. He should be improved enough to get sub package reps by the end of the year on rushing or short yard downs

     

    All in all it's not a great DB core but I'd call them average to above average. What they really need is to get some help from the front 7. Last game Flacco could have made tea and knitted a scraf with the amount of time he had. No DB core is going to last long if the front 7 can't add pressure. Remember the D starts in the trenches and works out, not the other way around. As the DB core gels and improves, provided the front 7 gets some consistency in pressure, I expect them to be fine. Certainly not a top 5 secondary but I don't think it would be out of question that they could be a top 12 secondary

     
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