Which Rookie has the best year?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    im going with sbozo and saying crable...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    The double red shirted rookie~ Crable
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

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     Our corners are so crummy I'm hoping McCourty will be different. I also think that the surprise of the season might be Dane Fletcher out of Montana State. I hope he gets a real chance.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    I'm going with Brandon Spikes.  He's going to be the Defensive Rookie of the Year and that will make two winners of that award at ILB on the team.  The defense will develop a nasty attitude this year.

    My runner up would be one of the two tight ends we drafted.

    Don't knock my logic here because there is no logic :^)  Just wild speculation, something all us fans know a lot about...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year? : You don't like Leigh Bodden?  This is the first year since 2007 they have had one position locked down.  That's really big, because barring injury to Bodden at least 2 players will be competing on the left (Butler and likely McCourty). Wilhite has the ideal skill set for nickel, in my opinion. 
    Posted by russgriswold
    hey gris Wilhite and Wheatley are fighting for the Dime DB spot, the nickel will go to the one who doesn't win the LCB spot between Butler and McCourty,also wilhite was burnt so many times last year I thought they were going to change the name on his uniform to Toast. When Henne passes for over 350 yards on you someone had to be asleep,unfortunately for Wilhite it was his knap time that allowed the completions....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    I like Spikes carawaydj but he is not going to win the rookie of the year award no way no how.
    Posted by MVPKilla2009


    Don't kill my pipe dream Killa...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcappy. Show jcappy's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    Tate, McKenzie, and Spikes will be our top three rookies. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brendon-Patrick. Show Brendon-Patrick's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    Brandon Tate isn't a rookie and Tyrone McKenzie has a year in the system after being drafted a year ago.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    Gronk and Hernadez, to me, have a chance to have immediate, large impact in their roles.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Ok russ let's settle this rookie tight end debate once and for all.  You go out on a limb and say without qualification that Gronk and Hernandez will have a big impact this season.  No more of this "have a chance" or "have potential."  Anyone can say that about anyone.  So cut the hedging and stand up for what you believe since you obviously think they're gonna be huge.  And I'll go out on a limb and say they will both have a minimal impact for the following reasons:

    1.  They are just rookies and New England's offense is too complicated for them to learn, especially at tight end which requires knowing 3 aspects of the playbook (route running, pass protection, run blocking).  And as rookies they won't be able to read the defense prior to the snap like Brady likes his receivers and blockers to do.

    That's it.

    P.S.  Special teams don't count!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

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    Oh and I'll go out on a limb say that Alabama DE Deadrick or whoever will have the biggest rookie impact and settle down the RE spot by November.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    This is a particularly tough question in my opinion because I think this draft may go down as the best ever (especially if you over look Brady's draft because of what he has meant to the organization).
    Since your asking who has the best year not career I am going to say TE Hernandez. With his skills he will see time at TE and WR especially with Welkers situation. Zoltan will have the most impact because as Punter he will have a few plays every game where his punts will be huge. But Special teams is a different animal.
    Talking Career?... your looking at Price, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez and Zoltan battling that one out and I think all five will have long successful careers.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    How do you not mention McCourty if you're talking about careers? And you mentioned a punter over a positional player? Name any punters that have had great careers and I could name 10 players at other positions that have had more valuable careers to their teams. A punter is a punter.  

    The fact that the Pats thought enough about McCourty to pick him in the first round should probably carry more weight in the thread. 


    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    This is a particularly tough question in my opinion because I think this draft may go down as the best ever (especially if you over look Brady's draft because of what he has meant to the organization). Since your asking who has the best year not career I am going to say TE Hernandez. With his skills he will see time at TE and WR especially with Welkers situation. Zoltan will have the most impact because as Punter he will have a few plays every game where his punts will be huge. But Special teams is a different animal. Talking Career?... your looking at Price, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez and Zoltan battling that one out and I think all five will have long successful careers.
    Posted by DaBlade

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    I got surprised by Vollmer.  That's why I want to pick the least likely people, the quiet kid in the corner.  So, just to be contrary, watch Cunningham come in and bust people's perceptions.  He has tools. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?


    Reading all these posts, I'm wondering how all the guys we are talking about are going to find room on the roster. Several positions where we have noted significant rookie accomplishment are stacked, and I'd be surprised if several of these rookies even make the club. Case in point..Sergio Brown. We have 4 + safeties currently on the roster. How does Sergio Brown make the team, and get on the field to make a contribution. They guy is currently behind 4+ players, unlikely to see any playing time at all even if he makes the team.

    Next case is Farnham. What is he, currently like 10th on the depth chart at WR? I don't think he makes the team, lucky if he makes the practice squad given everyone more talented in front of him. Same for the offensive linemen we drafted.

    I think we have to take a look at the guys that actually have a shot at making the team, plus, a real chance of getting significant playing time. Those that come to mind are McCourty, Spikes, Gronk and maybe, maybe Cunningham. I'm leaving Mesko out because he's a punter...yeah, he can contribute, but guys, he's a punter...
    I don't think Cunningham, Hernandez, Price will see any significant playing time. Same for some of our later round guys like Deadrick and others. 

    They 4 guys I listed above are most likely to have the most contribution this year, given they will make the team first of all, and second, the play positions that don't have a ton of quality depth and will see playing time. 

    I am penciling in Spikes a starter day 1. Guyton is backup material. McKenzie I think will see time inside and outside. For those of you who think he is too small to play outside, compare his physical makeup to TBC plus he is stronger and faster. 


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    Patslifer the only thing I don't agree with in your post is the UDFA's all of them have the same oppertunity as the rest of the players on the eventual camp roster to make the team,remember BB is an EOE HC. He could give two hoots whether a guy was drafted or just stumbled onto the scene just ask a half a dozen other guys who got their starts in the NFL on a BB coached team.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from magicalhobo. Show magicalhobo's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year? : Ok russ let's settle this rookie tight end debate once and for all.  You go out on a limb and say without qualification that Gronk and Hernandez will have a big impact this season.  No more of this "have a chance" or "have potential."  Anyone can say that about anyone.  So cut the hedging and stand up for what you believe since you obviously think they're gonna be huge.  And I'll go out on a limb and say they will both have a minimal impact for the following reasons: 1.  They are just rookies and New England's offense is too complicated for them to learn, especially at tight end which requires knowing 3 aspects of the playbook (route running, pass protection, run blocking).  And as rookies they won't be able to read the defense prior to the snap like Brady likes his receivers and blockers to do. That's it. P.S.  Special teams don't count!
    Posted by themightypatriotz

    I'm with the poster you're attempting to destroy. I think Gronk and Hernandez will have the largest impact of all the rookies this year. Sure, what you say is true but you have to look at who the team has ahead of all the rookies that will compete for playing time. McCourty has Bodden, Butler, and possibly Wilhite ahead of him. Spikes has Mayo, Guyton, and McKenzie. Price is under Moss, Tate, Edelman, Holt, and eventually Welker. The O-linemen drafted will most likely be backups as well.

    There are all proven players ahead of the other rookies. However, the team doesn't have one tight end that was on the team last year and none are proven in the Patriots system. That counts the one vet we have in Crumpler. They have three TEs and two of them are rookies. They will get playing time, and probably significatly more than the other draft picks. They have a huge chance to make an impact and are very promising prospects. There's no need to bash someone that's speculating on a speculation thread.

    Cunningham is also another player I think has the chance to have a very good rookie year.

    Oh yeah, what are your football qualifications mighty? I'd be interested to know because you seem to care quite a bit about qualifications. It's also nice to know that you're so familiar with Russ' football history and understanding of the game.  Again, this is a speculation thread! There is no need to get all pizzed off at someone because they have a differing opinion on something, especially if that something hasn't even happened yet. We'll have a better understanding once training camp hits.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    Reading all these posts, I'm wondering how all the guys we are talking about are going to find room on the roster. Several positions where we have noted significant rookie accomplishment are stacked, and I'd be surprised if several of these rookies even make the club. Case in point..Sergio Brown. We have 4 + safeties currently on the roster. How does Sergio Brown make the team, and get on the field to make a contribution. They guy is currently behind 4+ players, unlikely to see any playing time at all even if he makes the team. Next case is Farnham. What is he, currently like 10th on the depth chart at WR? I don't think he makes the team, lucky if he makes the practice squad given everyone more talented in front of him. Same for the offensive linemen we drafted. I think we have to take a look at the guys that actually have a shot at making the team, plus, a real chance of getting significant playing time. Those that come to mind are McCourty, Spikes, Gronk and maybe, maybe Cunningham. I'm leaving Mesko out because he's a punter...yeah, he can contribute, but guys, he's a punter... I don't think Cunningham, Hernandez, Price will see any significant playing time. Same for some of our later round guys like Deadrick and others.  They 4 guys I listed above are most likely to have the most contribution this year, given they will make the team first of all, and second, the play positions that don't have a ton of quality depth and will see playing time.  I am penciling in Spikes a starter day 1. Guyton is backup material. McKenzie I think will see time inside and outside. For those of you who think he is too small to play outside, compare his physical makeup to TBC plus he is stronger and faster. 
    Posted by PatsLifer


    BB regularly keeps the rookies and drops the third years if they haven't caught on.  Wilhite and Wheatley are both under the cross-hairs.  Crable has until September to prove himself.  Shawn Springs was a serviceable cornerback last year but he was caught in a numbers game and he's already long gone from T. F. Green.

    BB uses two tricks to hang on to the rooks.  First, he drafts such big seventh round projects that nobody else wants them, and they regularly slide to the practice squad.  Second, many of his rookies get injured.  It just happens.  A lot.  Finally, a number of Patriots castoffs get rehired in midseason because no one else wants them and that position has gotten thin due to injuries.  BB wants guys who can step in and perform serviceably, not the greatest talents or the other teams will grab them.

    BB has spectacular luck (e.g. he's smart and Robert Kraft spends money on a scouting organization) with sixth and seventh rounders (Brady, Cassel, Edelman), UFAs (Steve Neal) and castoffs from other teams (Mike Vrabel).  These guys have to be fully tried out, tossed away immediately if they're terrible, saved somehow if they're promising.

    Buddy Farnham will probably make the practice squad if anything.  BB actually had another kid from Brown University, Sean Morey, who got away and who caught on elsewhere. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?


    sportsbozo,

    I do agree that UDFA's have the same chance as anyone else, but I think the odds are in favor of guys drafted early. Not to say guys like Guyton, Neal, and even late round picks like Edelman can't compete and make the game day roster, because they did, but I'm just saying they have a very difficult uphill battle to climb especially with positions that are stacked with year 2 high draft picks and seasoned guys. 
    I gave the safety example as case in point. The kid from Notre Dame might be a player, and probably will get an opportunity to compete at the position, but will he get the same opportunity as Meriweather, Sanders, McGowan and Chung? meaning, will he get equal number of snaps come training camp as those 4?...probably not. Not to say he doesn't have a chance because he does, but his chances are slim. 

    I would like to see a few of the UDFA guys on the team. Some like Buddy Farnham and the kid from Montana Fletcher are players. Again, the problem is both the WR spot and LB spot are stacked, so their chances are more slim than at a position where we need someone like at RDE in the case of late round pick Deadrick. 

    I think we have a good problem. Lots of camp competition, which should make everyone better.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year? : I'm with the poster you're attempting to destroy. I think Gronk and Hernandez will have the largest impact of all the rookies this year. Sure, what you say is true but you have to look at who the team has ahead of all the rookies that will compete for playing time. McCourty has Bodden, Butler, and possibly Wilhite ahead of him. Spikes has Mayo, Guyton, and McKenzie. Price is under Moss, Tate, Edelman, Holt, and eventually Welker. The O-linemen drafted will most likely be backups as well. There are all proven players ahead of the other rookies. However, the team doesn't have one tight end that was on the team last year and none are proven in the Patriots system. That counts the one vet we have in Crumpler. They have three TEs and two of them are rookies. They will get playing time, and probably significatly more than the other draft picks. They have a huge chance to make an impact and are very promising prospects. There's no need to bash someone that's speculating on a speculation thread. Cunningham is also another player I think has the chance to have a very good rookie year. Oh yeah, what are your football qualifications mighty? I'd be interested to know because you seem to care quite a bit about qualifications. It's also nice to know that you're so familiar with Russ' football history and understanding of the game.  Again, this is a speculation thread! There is no need to get all pizzed off at someone because they have a differing opinion on something, especially if that something hasn't even happened yet. We'll have a better understanding once training camp hits.
    Posted by magicalhobo


    Not attempting to destroy anyone ... except myself because Gronk and Hernandez will probably have a huge season and prove me wrong.

    My football qualifications ... zero.

    Pizzed off ... no, russ and I just have a history of going at each other so I thought we could settle our differences with a friendly wager on the rookie tight ends.

    Your point about depth ... good one.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year? : Ok, fine.  They'll have nice rookie years. Hernandez will have 35 receptions and 3 TDs. Gronkowksi will have 30 receptions and 5 TDs. Other predictions for stats here for some context: Moss 75 receptions 12 TDs Holt 50 receptions 4 TDs Edelman 85 receptions 6 TDs Tate 35 receptions 6 TDS It's not so much stats and how great an impact Gronkowski, Hernandez and Crumpler will have, it's how they balance out the offense. When Ben Watson (statistically) is your best TE in Brady's tenure, that's pretty bad.
    Posted by russgriswold


    If they restore balance to the offense and allow us to actually score in the red zone, that would be awesome and mean more than any individual stats.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    Is Russ suggesting that 2 rookie tight ends will combine for more receptions than any 2 rookie tight ends on the same team in the history of the NFL on a team that is loaded with wide receivers,  one of which will complain if he is not the man and another who had 100+ catches last year and Russ claims will defy the odds and be at full strenth by week 8?  Just wondering ,that's all.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

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    In Response to Re: Which Rookie has the best year?:
    Hernandez is not a TE. He'll be used in the slot and is more of an H-Back.   I thought this team WAS NOT loaded with WRs? Gee, I see so many fans complaining about the loss of Welker, Moss aging, Holt not a good pick up and Patten as worthless. Which is it? Those are ballpark estimates, kid.  You are quite the piece of work following me around this board because you get pasted off other discussion threads so often. Just deal with it.  You aren't as smart as you think you are.
    Posted by russgriswold

    I certainly never said they didn't have a good group of WRs.  Obvioulsy,
    Moss is not the guy he once was.  Revis showed us that.  So if Pothead is the slot, what will Julian then Welker be doing? Pasted how?  Are you still upset over that Ravens thing and that Carroll thing?  C'mon now.  Get over it.  So what, you were wrong.   All you need to do is admit that when a team has a worse record and doesn't go as far in the playoffs, they have actually regressed and when a defense gives up more points, it has gotten worse.  These are very simple realities of the NFL. I mean, really, what's next?  The running back that fumbles the most is actully the best because the defense is trying harder to get the ball from him?  That is the kind of logic that you try to use.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    I'm not trying to dodge the intial question but I think there are enough need areas on this team that most of the rookies will have an impact as will a few non drafted free agents.  Spikes and Zoltan all have a good shot to start right out of training camp and or play max minutes.  Gronk and Hernandez could easily get in there, Alge isn't exactly young and we have no full backs on the roster so blockers will come in handy. Devin won't start unless Butler gets complacent and BB want to put him in his place but I expect McCourty will get a lot of kick return chances as well...

    This is going to one of more well rounded, high energy teams we've had for a while...  I for one still believe we're the team to beat in the East.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    I'll go with Spikes just see him winning the starting ILB over Guyton and McKenzie. He'll be a nice compliment with Mayo and throw Wilfork in a NT and the Pats will be solid up the middle this year. Zoltan will probably win the punting job and should be a nice improvement over Hanson. Other contributors this year McCourty in nickel, Cunningham will get some good playing time in at OLB behind Burgess. Both Gronkowski and Hernandez will see plenty of game action and no one will lose any sleep over the departure of Watson and Baker. Like HRK mentioned earlier hopefully Larson or 2nd year OL (Ohrenberger or Bussey) will step up and become this year's Vollmer.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Which Rookie has the best year?

    Spikes is a good instinctive player. With Gronk we still have the lingering back injury question.

    However, my hope is that Buddy Farnham makes the team. Buddy is the essence of the Patriot philosophy: underated, hard working, good skills, intelligent and always finds a way to win. If the Pats sign Buddy to the practice squad he will find a way to come through in coming years.
     

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