In Response to Re: who is racist here?:


Amen to that, brother! I'm so sick and tired of those who perceive any slight, disagreement, or whatever to be due to racism. It makes me sick. These people propogate it by their fanaticism. If a white man disagrees with a black man that makes him a racist no matter what? And if you try and suggest that maybe guys like Sharpton and Jackson are just as bad, YOU get jumped on! In this case in Cambridge I blame Gates for flying off the handle. Even if this cop is a big a-hole (like some poster suggested who claimed to know him), he'd probably give you or me the same type of treatment. Unfortunately the racism problem will not go away, priarily because there are too many people that use it for their own agenda. And they are doing so from BOTH sides of the issue, just like you say!

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:

Problem?

In Response to Re: who is racist here?: Considering the decades, no centuries of ugly racial history the US has had toward people of color, ie: Blacks, Native Americans and Asians, etc., it comes as no surprise when some one like Henry Gates who is of an age to have witnessed first hand the effects of racist behavior by whites, acted out on the doorsteps of his home. You and your ilk have NO idea what people of color deal with on a daily basis. Try walking a day in our shoes, come back here and tell me what you experienced. I'd be willing to listen. 

Look, I'm a Dem and proud of it, but Obama should never have opened his mouth before, that's one issue...The main issue is, Crowley & Gates both overreacted in this situation...Someone called in a report of a break-in and Crowley was just responding...He also wanted to make sure there wasn't anyone in Gates' home, so he asked Gates to step outside.  Crolwey asked for Gates' ID 2x & Gates put up a huge stink.  Gates has had a couple of these incidences with municipalities whereby he's stirred things up by calling them "Racists"...Both overreacted in this instance.  Was this a case of racial profiling??  I don't believe so, there was no intention to reach a quota or prejudge based on race.  Gates seems like he's a little more entitled and snobby than most because of where he lives & that he's a professor at Harvard.  Both were wrong as individual people, no one's a racist, this isn't about Dems vs. Rep, this maybe about Class more than anything.

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:

If some a**hole cop gives me sh*t in my own house then he's gonna get a mouthful.   If you can't be left alone in your own home then what?  I don't care about what color you are, if you get harassed in your own home by the Gestapo then kiss all the rest of rights goodbye too. 
By the way,  I guess this guy's neighbor had no idea he had a black professor living next door to him? 

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:


From what I've read the cop was merely trying to establish that the guy did indeed live there. He asked the man to produce ID, which is a common request by police all over the country. Gates then started mouthing off and calling the officer a racist. I saw nothing in the few articles I've read about the incident to suggest they were using "Gestapo" tactics! This is another example of why such things get exagerrated. If the cops kicked the door in, threw Gates to the floor, and put a gun to his head I'd say that would be "Gestapo-like". The guy was simply trying to do his job. At that point it was to identify who in fact Gates was, and if there was indeed a break in going on. Gates jumped to conclusions, and started aggravating the situation. And why? Because back in the 60s the people in Alabama would not let black kids go to public school? So, of course, any cop daring to ask a black man to identify himself (something that I, a white man, has had to do dozens of times merely for being in a place where they were investigating something or other) is being a racist? I'm sorry, but this is exactly the type of thing that people like Jesse Jackson are propogating. Nobody is denying that people of color have been discriminated against in the past. But you cannot continue to live in the past. It seems that far too much hatred is being carried over from such things, and that in itself will prevent this issue from being solved. Some of these rabble rousers seem to think it's a huge conspiracy amongst all white people to "keep a brother down" (or whatever the cliche is). But it's that type of thinking which keeps what's left of racism alive. To me, Gates becoming abusive and accusing the officer of being racist is just as bad as the cop who pulls over a vehicle simply because the driver is black. It works both ways! The bigots will continue to consider black people as substandard as long as they continue to consider all white people racist! When does all this BS stop? Most people have come a long way from the thinking of the 50s and 60s. But there are still a lot of idiots out there, both black and white, who haven't, and are still full of the same hatred for each other. It's a sad situation, as there are a lot of other atrocities we should be fighting together to overcome. But I suppose the times change, but things still continue to be the same.

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:

well i agree the cop was doing his job. For one Gates house was broken into before so the possible threat of break-in was legit. Also if anyone here thinks burglary doesn't happan in the daytime then your just plain wrong. If you give the cop lip you are subject to arrest. Then goes for anyone. More cops die from a routine stop because they let their guard down then they do from anything else. So a cop has every reason to arrest anyone who is giving them a problem. If Gates would of just shut up and showed his ID from the beginning everything would of been fine.

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..: Jules, you seem to know an awful lot about Black people and what we're thinking. Are you Black? Do you have in-laws that are Black? By chance, is your wife Black? I have relatives that are white. I don't profess to know what white people are thinking, but let me tell you what I do know. 

paob i find it weird you were kicked out of roxbury. I have lived in boston suburbs my whole life. Roxbury is not exactly known for a good city to hang out in. Most people avoid that city and for good reason. Now I am not saying racism is over in America bc sadly it is not. However it is incidents like this that keep it alive. THe simple fact is if Mr. Gates would of just shown his id from the beginning this would of been over and never happaned. I have plenty of white friends that were asked to show id in similar situations by a black cop. Does that mean that black cop was racist? Should we of called CNN and said we were being targeted against by this cop? IF Mr. Gates would of simply complied with the cops questions and showed his ID to prove he lived there instead of argueing nothing would have happaned. It is as simple as that. If this was a black cop and white professor we would never be having this conversation.

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:


I wonder if John Wayne Gacy gave the Cops a mouthful when they went to his house?

John Wayne Gacy, Jr. (March 17, 1942 – May 10, 1994) was an American serial killer.

He was convicted and later executed for the rape and murder of 33 boys and young men between 1972 and his arrest in 1978, 27 of whom he buried in a crawl space under the floor of his house, while others were found in nearby rivers. He became notorious as the "Killer Clown" because of the many block parties he threw for his friends and neighbors, entertaining children in a clown suit and makeup, under the name of "Pogo the Clown".

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..:


He did give him his ID. Then the officer called seven more policemen, and then the officer arrested him when he asked for his name and badge number.

Where does this mythology that he didn't present ID come from????????

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..:


You are wasting your time paob. Some people simply don't want to even think what you are talking about.

The mere existance of the Southern Strategy, and its unsuccessful continuation in the last election, proves that racism still is a MAJOR factor, to the point where Republican electoral advertisement strategy incorporates encouraging it in order to stoke their "base."

The fact remains, that the standard of personal proof has historically been higher for black people. Since the Fugitive Slave Act in 1793 they have had to doubly identify themselves. The fringe wacko obsession with our President's birth cert, even though he has provided it, insisting that it is a forgery is part and parcel of Gate's showing his ID, proving he lived there, and THEN still having more cops called in to ID him.

That latter incident might just be an A-Hole cop, or maybe it was subconscious racism, but the paralell is there for all to see. If you are black, bring two IDs, and a white friend to vouch for you . .. or be friends with the President of the most powerful nation on earth. Either or.

zbellino,

I agree maybe the cop overreacted but so did Gates. Yes you are correct in the fact that Gates did show him the ID. But he did not do it when the cop first asked for it. Even Gates has said this. So it is not like I am making that fact up. Gates argued with the cop first then showed him the ID. At that point heads were already heated. IF he simply showed him the ID at the beginning of the altercation I believe it simply would not have escalated as far.

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..:


Huh?
Like David Pratt? Or Rodney Braxton? Or Markey Pierre? Or Bruce Kim?
http://www.sostrategy.com/lobbyists.php#15 
http://www.sostrategy.com/lobbyists.php#9
http://www.sostrategy.com/lobbyists.php#10
http://www.sostrategy.com/lobbyists.php#14

I'm failing to see you your logic

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..:


No. Like Kevin  Phillips, Lee Atwater, and Karl Rove:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E6DF1E30F935A35753C1A9639C8B63

"Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*gg*r, n*gg*r, n*gg*r." By 1968 you can't say "n*gg*r"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [1991] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N*gg*r, n*gg*r.""

Those are Atwater's words. Engineer of three successful election bids for Reagan and Bush senior. Mentor of Karl Rove, who incorporated his same strategies in 2000, then extending it to connect these policies with evangelical voters. And close personal friend with G.W..

The major component of the Republican strategy for winning elections, for the last 40 years, has been based on a.) propogating racism, and b.) playing off of white anxieties. And it is a concerted effort, not accidental.

And this includes the conservative cronies who engineer garbage push-polls that get people excited about hair-brained theories like the "birthers" and do everything they can to associate their electoral opponents with black people, and black people with everything evil. Rather than even talking about policy they just run ads questioning whether our President is who he is.

It is part of their strategy of winnning elections and people just lap it up like thirsty kittens, and show up on sports forums talking about Obama isn't an American, and how 90% of racism is here because Gates has *legit* suspicions about why his ID doesn't suffice as proof that he is not breaking and entering in his own home.   

And when I read it I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..:


I never said it was Gates' finest day, but we all have bad ones. I have actually seen his lectures, and he is a mild mannered guy, and really bright and compasionate.

As far as making things up, there is inventing something and pushing a truth. The officer who entered his home was in plain clothes. He asked for Gates' ID, and Gates asked for his ID. The cop didn't show Gates his ID, but Gates gave his to the cop.

Gates had just gotten off a flight from China, and I don't know if you ever have flown to that area, but it is exhausting enough, and shows up at his house to find his door jammed shut.

So he is already in a bad mood. Then having someone come up to you asking for your ID, who doesn't look like a police officer, it is bound to irk anyone. Yes, Gates could have played it cooler, but he is human. But the part where anyone would be upset, is when he does show his ID, the officer won't ID himself, and then the officer calls all the cops in Harvard over to see if Gates is who his ID says he is. That isn't just insulting, it is unnecessary and harrasment.

That still doesn't excuse the officer. I don't know if his motivations were racist, subconscious, or he was just ticked himself, but the fact is that he should have left the house after getting the ID. Period. Moreover, Gates shouldn't need to follow him outside to get his ID. Police are *our* employees, and I have asked a plain clothes officer to show me his badge and give me his name. He was seeing *red*, but tough cookies.

Gates had a legit beef. Even if he pursued it in a manner that was likely to escalate the situation. And the very fact that the charges were dropped if prima facie evidence that the charges simply wouldn't stand, because no court would consider his actions truly disorderly.
 
And as far as out President's comments, they are so common sense I can't believe people have a problem with them. Not accepting the ID as proof that a feeble 58 year old man isn't a BE perp was "acting stupidly."

The good part is that both parties are opening a dialogue about this now, and that is a healthy thing for everyone in the nation to see. Both men can be more reasonable, and things can be worked out with civil discussion.

This whole topic blows my mind becuase most of the people want the cop to be wrong before most of the facts even came out.  I read almost every post on this forum everyday because there is nothing to do here in Iraq.  Its funny to read about people views on religion and such in a sports board.

I guess the only reason I'm posting is most of you have never had a job that you had to be correct 100% of the time or you could die.  Many in my family are cops and I hope to be one when my time in the military is done. All I ask is look at the fact before you start spurting all these thing like, "I would cuss a cop out in my home."

1. There was a 911 call about 2 men breaking in a home that had been prevously broken into.

2. When on the call, backup was already on the way in any situation where there is only one black and white on site.  Even for routine traffic stops often other squad cars will come to provide over watch.

3. Mr Gates did break into the house he was residing, because the key wasn't working or was lost or the door was jammed depending what article you read.... also harvard provided the house he does not own it.  He even admitted that he had trouble with the door that his driver and himself had to force it open, which could easily look like two people breaking into the house by any neighbor or passer by.  They must have been somewhat convinced at what they saw to dial 911.

4. Upon arrival and investigation of the 911 the cop asks to see Mr. Gates ID in which he refuses and starts to verbally attack the officer and call it racial profiling.  Now i'm not going to try to state what was said you can look up the police report but at this time gates was not under arrest. Final he did give his school ID.

5. The final piece that people are over looking is even with other cops as witnesses, Gate proceeded to follow the cop outside of his house and continue to verbally attack the cop and cause a commotion.  He was warned three times on record to go back inside in which he did not, only then was he arrested.

The police procedure was followed and would have played out most likely the same if he was white, asian or black.  The only person that made it racial was Gates.  police are required to verify who is inside the house and to look around the site to make sure everything is ok,  What if Gates' house had been broken into right before he got home and the perps were still there and the police officer did not check then it would have been his failure. 

you may think gates only yelled at the officer but that in its self is an offense when asked to offer identification.  This whole thing is blown way out of proportion, and most of the fault is on Gates.

There are so many other points to add I'm just sick of typing already but too often people want to blaime the police for doing thier job.  Are there bad police officers out there? Sure, but the same goes for every walk of life. If you look for racism often you will see it when its not there. 

In Response to Re: who is racist here?:

wow your being reported to the globe. The reporter was givin that question to ask and he knew she had it. stop drinking the coolaid. bait and switch by the master deciever. Obummer was the one acting stupidly. But you morons eat it up.
maybe we can have a beer and talk about it. but that would probably cost $50,000 in tax money. Thats ok we'll just tax some more to pay for it.... I hope its a Sam Adams

There are so many other points to add I'm just sick of typing already but too often people want to blaime the police for doing thier job.  Are there bad police officers out there? Sure, but the same goes for every walk of life. If you look for racism often you will see it when its not there. 

You made some excellent points. Being "exhausted from a long flight" is no excuse to verbally abuse someone who is merely doing his job. In any case, it is always wiser to cooperate with the police, if you do have a legitimate gripe, you can always file it later. As you state, there are some cops out there who are looking for trouble, and who have a "bully" mentality. I lived for 13 years in L.A., and I can certainly attest to that. Much smarter to say "yes, sir" or "no, sir", and avoid a bad situation. and your last statement is right on. A lot of people here are pushing the argument that racism does exist. And we are not denying that. But by pushing their point by trying to claim any altercation between white and black is a case point is in itself racist, IMO. Much the same as when a woman cries abuse out of anger (when none has actually occurred), it makes it worse for when it is really an issue. Sometimes these people seem like they are insinuating that race is the only factor in any altercation. And that's simply not the case. Hatred begets hatred. If one side wants it to stop they must also stop it themselves. If Dr. King were still alive today I'm sure he would be discouraged by a lot of these allegations and the negative propoganda. And in any case, the president should have chosen his words a bit more carefully. I'm glad it's only a couple weeks before we have football again! These political discussions are getting old, and I like it better when most of us agree on things (for the most part)!

Well, it's often difficult to engage in polite discourse about certain topics, but it's good to see a level of decorum being observed here.

I entered a discussion about this topic on another board -- presumably dominated by steadfast midwesterners -- and some crackpot came up with the theory that Obama and Gates had orchestrated this entire episode to draw public attention away from Obama's laughable climate-control legislation.

Have a nice day.

zbellino where did you hear crowley was in plain clothes?

In Response to Re: who is racist here? Jules, I apperciate the rebuttal. I will respond in full shortly..: Bradyrulez, I wasn't kicked out of Roxbury. I was asked to leave a basketball court in West Roxbury. As for Sgt. Crowley and Prof. Gates. Crowley took a test to become a Sgt. Which means he has some modicum of intelligence to be wearing those three stripes on his uniform.

I am sure this guy is scared by your post, What are we in Russia, all things are monitored? What is so unbelievable is morons like you, justifying this "professor" actions, he was wrong, he should have shown his ID, they would have left. He was being an arrogant person, throwing the because I am black in the Officer's face, not doing what he was told to do, which was show his ID. The President should have not commented until he knew all of the facts, If this incident was with a white professor, it would have been no news at all. This is the biggest problem of all.