Who should get more blame for this loss?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dennisrbaker. Show dennisrbaker's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    "the call for the onside kick was horrible, the d was horrible, but they gave up 6 points in the second half..six!!! why couldnt they get one more stop..."

    sure, they gave up 6 points... but they also let the steelers march up and down the field for 25 plays, 133 yards and 13:00 minute time of possession on the first two drives of the 2nd half.  if the pats kicked deep they would have never seen the ball again.

    your statment makes it seem like the pats played decent defense in the 2nd half.  they did not.  it was pathetic.  granted, a little less pathetic than the first half, but pathetic nonetheless.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kingliar. Show kingliar's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    The Stelers dominated the clock and the numbers and won by more than a TD after BB had 2 weeks to prepare [ and when he has time to prepare he usally eviscerates his opponent]. The Pats, after spending 2 draft choices early on RB's, couldn't run the ball and the thread bare secondary was awful. 
        Before this game I thought the Pats were clearlythe class of the AFC. No more. They have the best offense in the game....and one of the worst defenses in the game [even though their D almost always plays with a lead].
          They are the 2011 version of Fouts Chargers, and until BB stops over estimating his ability to coach up bad to mediocre defensive players they will not see another championship soon.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    ZB, how many times did the Pats offense get called for a false start when Lebeau showed blitz. Lebeau owned O Brien and the Pats offense. We need physical receivers. I like WRs that can run the route tree (Ocho, Branch) as much as the next guy, but I don't like being crushed off the line all the time in the bump zone (usually in man, sorry about the confusion). The Patriot offense is based on reads and timing (like most good offenses Colts 06, Montana Niners), you play tight man and knock them around it disrupts the timing and you have Brady in the pocket holding on to the ball for 10 seconds.

    If the Pats recover the on-side kick opinions change. That said, you seem awfully confidant the Pats D would make sure Brady (arguably with no time outs) would get the ball back with some time (minute +), I am not so sure the defense makes the stop.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]ZB, how many times did the Pats offense get called for a false start when Lebeau showed blitz. Lebeau owned O Brien and the Pats offense. We need physical receivers. I like WRs that can run the route tree (Ocho, Branch) as much as the next guy, but I don't like being crushed off the line all the time in the bump zone (usually in man, sorry about the confusion). The Patriot offense is based on reads and timing (like most good offenses Colts 06, Montana Niners), you play tight man and knock them around it disrupts the timing and you have Brady in the pocket holding on to the ball for 10 seconds. If the Pats recover the on-side kick opinions change. That said, you seem awfully confidant the Pats D would make sure Brady (arguably with no time outs) would get the ball back with some time (minute +), I am not so sure the defense makes the stop.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    Hog, that is what I'm saying. At the same time, big bad Gronk and Hernandez need to win some of their matchups. NE DOES need a physical WR or two. But they still need to execute. 

    Slandering the 49ers, though, doesn't make much sense. They basically owned the NFL with a finesse offense. The difference was that they had much, much better WRs than NE. 

    Jerry Rice, John Taylor, et al, is better than Welker and Branch by a mile stretch, and it gets uglier when you get past those two.

    About the onside kick. They work about 10% of the time in those situations. The defense had been terrible for most of the day, but I would like to think that there is a greater than 10% chance that they stop the Steelers deep. Even if they take six downs and the 2 minutes to stop them, it gives you waay better field position than your own 20 to get the TD. Kick it out of the back of the endzone. Stop them on the thirty. Get a decent return. You have 30 seconds to get 60 yards in stead of 30 seconds to get eighty yards. H-e-c-k if you repeat the same sequence, the Steelers are punting out of the end zone, and you maybe get the ball at the 50 or Steelers' 45. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bergzilla. Show Bergzilla's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Hats off to Pittsburgh!! They came in with passion and executed.

    Patriots had extra time and still did not enact a gameplay. Not sure what BB was doing for a gameplan. I think he is trying to lean on the run a little more to keep pressure of TB. As noted 1-2 yrds per carry not gonna do that. Defense couldn't get off the field. TB couldn't get on the field. That there is how to beat any team that has a mediocre defense.

    Heard Dowling on IR? not sure why Bodden is gone. He at least knows the scheme.

    Losing in Pittsburgh not the end of the world. But teams heading to the post-season usually win there.

    Let's hope next week is better!!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]"The bottom line is they need to carry it better than that. Running for -1, 2, 1 yards per play is a drag, and leaves you in silly 3rd and long plays. They were getting stuffed." It is because the Steelers WANTED them to run.  Hello Rangoon. Those of you that want offensive balance got it, and this is its result.  An ugly loss.
    Posted by dmpc[/QUOTE]

    This has nothing to do with play balance. 

    The offense should execute whatever plays are called. And you don't just say ... hey, we are going to run only or pass only. IF the Steelers are putting men in the box like they were most of the first half today you run a PA fake, and break a play over their head. That will back them off of the run realy quickly. 

    They didn't execute. 

    Passing the ball a few more times wouldn't have likely changed the outcome unless those passes worked better than the other ones before them. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Micksoxx. Show Micksoxx's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Another Sunday of watching and hearing all the names on defense for other teams that we pass up in the draft every year.  The pathetic garbage pf a defense we march out there in he last 3 years is laughable.  But hey, maybe we can take trade down again next year gets some picks for 2014.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    The problem with next week is that the Giants can get pressure with just their front four and won't blitz nearly as much as the Steelers did. So Brady will be getting pressured, with 7 guys back there in coverage. That said, I don't see the Patriots losing at home after a loss like this one, and Eli isn't Big Ben.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanJoe. Show MeanJoe's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    How do you come off a bye and look so awful?
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : This has nothing to do with play balance.  The offense should execute whatever plays are called. And you don't just say ... hey, we are going to run only or pass only. IF the Steelers are putting men in the box like they were most of the first half today you run a PA fake, and break a play over their head. That will back them off of the run realy quickly.  They didn't execute.  Passing the ball a few more times wouldn't have likely changed the outcome unless those passes worked better than the other ones before them. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    You must have watched a different game then the rest of us. Kevin Faulk fresh off the PUP was our primary RB with SIX CARRIES......SIX, and BJGE had FIVE. Play action is tough to sell when they know you are not going to run.

    They never had 8 in the box, 8 dropped back in the zone is more like it. Nobody was open because 7-8 guys were covering 4 receiving options. They knew we were going to throw it 35 times and we did it anyway.

    Offensive balance was not a problem? C'mon Z, you can't be serious?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : They were pretty balanced until the last quarter and a half. 12 passes, 10 runs. ...
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    you must be kidding. here is the play by play.

    POSS 1

    short pass for 8
    run for -1
    (shotgun) short pass incomplete
    punt

    POSS 2 (Q2)

    (shotgun) short pass for 7
    run by faulk for 2
    (shotgun) run by bjge for 2 (got 1st dwn)
    (shotgun) short pass for 7
    run by faulk for 5 (got 1st dwn)
    (shotgun) short pass to hern - incomplete, but penalty still 1st dwn
    run by faulk for 2
    (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete, but penalty
    (shotgun) short pass to welk incomplete
    (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete
    (shotgun) sacked
    punt

    POSS 3 (After INT)

    (Shotgun) run by faulk for 2
    (Shotgun) short pass for TD

    POSS 4
    short pass for 23 (gained 1st dwn)
    (shotgun) run by bjge
    (shotgun) short pass
    (shotgun) short pass
    (no huddle shotgun) short pass incomplete
    (no huddle shotgun) short pass for 17
    (no huddle shotgun) sack
    Timeout
    (shotgun) short pass incomplete
    (shotgun) direct snap
    kick field goal

    15 pases to 6 runs in the first half

    3rd Qtr

    POSS 5
    run
    short pass incomplete
    (shotgun) short pass
    punt

    POSS 6

    short pass 
    short pass
    short pass
    run
    (shotgun) short pass
    (shotgun) short pass incomplete
    (shotgun) short pass
    punt missed

    so through 2.5 qtrs, it was 23 pass attempts to 8 run attempts.

    balance was an issue! but it was not the only issue. faulk was on the field a lot. faulk's presence also said to pitt that pats were not going to commit to the run. that made it easy for pitt to commit to the pass since they knew faulk was not capable of long yards. if they run with faulk, they will be giving up 5 at most. they were willing to live with that. 




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : Eight back in zone? Did you watch the game? They hardly played any zone at all. They played (unlike LeBeau really) man to man at the line. A bunch of the time they had ten men on the line of scrimmage.  Go look at the game break down right here on Boston.com. They discuss it in detail.  If the team has men loaded at the LOS PA fakes can be very good, whether or not you've run the ball, because the margin for error on the defender is shrunken.  If you want them to get off the line, you have to make them get off the line. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    7-8 back, 4 or 3 rush the QB, while covering 4 receiving options = classic man zone.. CB's play man and bump to disrupt timing patterns and 4 other guys flood the zone. This kills a team that will pass 35 plus to 11 rushes.

    Men were loaded at the LOS with the Cowboys too, but they never sent them. They dropped back into the short zone. Watch the game again, they took a page out of the Ryan brothers playbook.

    We have killed Pitt with the spread for so long they finally wised up. Too bad we never adjusted.

    6 rushes by Kevin Faulk, 5 by Lawfirm = a bad game plan.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : you must be kidding. here is the play by play. POSS 1 short pass for 8 run for -1 (shotgun) short pass incomplete punt POSS 2 (Q2) (shotgun) short pass for 7 run by faulk for 2 (shotgun) run by bjge for 2 (got 1st dwn) (shotgun) short pass for 7 run by faulk for 5 (got 1st dwn) (shotgun) short pass to hern - incomplete, but penalty still 1st dwn run by faulk for 2 (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete, but penalty (shotgun) short pass to welk incomplete (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete (shotgun) sacked punt POSS 3 (After INT) (Shotgun) run by faulk for 2 (Shotgun) short pass for TD POSS 4 short pass for 23 (gained 1st dwn) (shotgun) run by bjge (shotgun) short pass (shotgun) short pass (no huddle shotgun) short pass incomplete (no huddle shotgun) short pass for 17 (no huddle shotgun) sack Timeout (shotgun) short pass incomplete (shotgun) direct snap kick field goal 15 pases to 6 runs in the first half 3rd Qtr POSS 5 run short pass incomplete (shotgun) short pass punt POSS 6 short pass  short pass short pass run (shotgun) short pass (shotgun) short pass incomplete (shotgun) short pass punt missed so through 2.5 qtrs, it was 23 pass attempts to 8 run attempts. balance was an issue! but it was not the only issue. faulk was on the field a lot. faulk's presence also said to pitt that pats were not going to commit to the run. that made it easy for pitt to commit to the pass since they knew faulk was not capable of long yards. if they run with faulk, they will be giving up 5 at most. they were willing to live with that. 
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    The last drive you had in there occurs at 6:11 in the third quarter. That is well over the 2.5 quarter mark. Brady threw 35 passes. They ran it 12 times. After that, I count 23 passes (starting on the last drive you show at 6:11) and 2 runs. 

    By my count that would be 12 passes 10 runs up to 6:11 in the third. So roughly through the first 40 minutes, that's about a 50/50 balance. Unless I missed a drive, or miscounted on the last three. 

    If you just contain it to the first half, that is actually 10-9. Unless I'm counting wrong. 

    Do you really expect them to be running the football with 20 minutes to go being down by 13 points? 

    Also, while I agree having Faulk on the field too often was an issue, Pitt basically loaded the box until the end of the game. I'm not sure that anything short of passing over their head would change that. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : You must have watched a different game then the rest of us. Kevin Faulk fresh off the PUP was our primary RB with SIX CARRIES......SIX, and BJGE had FIVE. Play action is tough to sell when they know you are not going to run. They never had 8 in the box, 8 dropped back in the zone is more like it. Nobody was open because 7-8 guys were covering 4 receiving options. They knew we were going to throw it 35 times and we did it anyway. Offensive balance was not a problem? C'mon Z, you can't be serious?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Eight back in zone? Did you watch the game?

    They hardly played any zone at all. They played (unlike LeBeau really) man to man at the line. A bunch of the time they had ten men on the line of scrimmage. 

    Go look at the game break down right here on Boston.com. They discuss it in detail. 

    If the team has men loaded at the LOS PA fakes can be very good, whether or not you've run the ball, because the margin for error on the defender is shrunken. 

    If you want them to get off the line, you have to make them get off the line. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Sorry. My math error. The Hernandez reverse came late as well. And I forgot to add in the two sacks because I was subtracting the 4th + that last drive from the raw stat sheet that showed 35 passes at the end of the day. In reality there were 38 because three resulted in sacks. 

    So 14-9 through 2.5 quarters. 

    Still, not really unbalanced. Especially considering the gross penalties and the fact that they kept winding up in 2nd and 4rd and long. 


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : The last drive you had in there occurs at 6:11 in the third quarter. That is well over the 2.5 quarter mark. Brady threw 35 passes. They ran it 12 times. After that, I count 23 passes (starting on the last drive you show at 6:11) and 2 runs.  By my count that would be 12 passes 10 runs up to 6:11 in the third. So roughly through the first 40 minutes, that's about a 50/50 balance. Unless I missed a drive, or miscounted on the last three.  If you just contain it to the first half, that is actually 10-9. Unless I'm counting wrong.  Do you really expect them to be running the football with 20 minutes to go being down by 13 points?  Also, while I agree having Faulk on the field too often was an issue, Pitt basically loaded the box until the end of the game. I'm not sure that anything short of passing over their head would change that. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    i got it, first half was not as skewed. based on your "last qtr and a half" i counted into the third. 

    they did not trail by 13 until the fourth. i don't think they should have given up on the run, in the third. they were at most trailing by 10 through the middle (i'd have to watch again to see if hey were still loading the box in the 2H). trailing by 13 in the 4th, that's desperation time...you just throw.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : You must have watched a different game then the rest of us. Kevin Faulk fresh off the PUP was our primary RB with SIX CARRIES......SIX, and BJGE had FIVE. Play action is tough to sell when they know you are not going to run. They never had 8 in the box, 8 dropped back in the zone is more like it. Nobody was open because 7-8 guys were covering 4 receiving options. They knew we were going to throw it 35 times and we did it anyway. Offensive balance was not a problem? C'mon Z, you can't be serious?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Here are three I dug up real quick. The safety is essentially playing up like a third MLB. One of these, I forget which, was a successful PA fake that winded up being to Branch for a first down. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : i got it, first half was not as skewed. based on your "last qtr and a half" i counted into the third.  they did not trail by 13 until the fourth. i don't think they should have given up on the run, in the third. they were at most trailing by 10 through the middle (i'd have to watch again to see if hey were still loading the box in the 2H). trailing by 13 in the 4th, that's desperation time...you just throw.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    When the opponent is holding 7 minute drives you might, especially when you are averaging around or beneath 3 YPC. You need two scores, you know? 

    With about twenty minutes to go, you might only see the ball two more times. 

    That is how football works. You get a lead, take away half of the other team's playbook, and make it easier for your defense. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:

    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    hey eng,



    The O had 8 drives and couldn't do anything at all. Pitts OL was holding all day why couldn't our OL try it? 

    maybe our coaches are using the playbook, and in today's nfl, they need to be shrewder and teach what we can, and he others are getting away with.


    Penalties amassed on false starts. The running game was pretty much non-existent. Not a single receiver could get any type of separation


    how many times when i said we need an outside the #s receiver to make sure we get welker and a te free against tough defenses did many say "for what? we are fine now!"



    The D was god awful. Pitt came in with an obvious strategy of long drives that chew up clock and keeps Brady off the field. Guess what the ToP was 2:1 in Pitts favor. That tells you all we need to know. Sure Pitt was holding on a ton of plays but giving the entire middle of the field on every 3rd down play is inexcusable


    bb defense critique for quite some time. passive is not a way to play defense no matter who you have personnel wise.

    The coaching was running into brick walls without helmets. Seriously, couldn't adjust and put someone on Miller or close up the middle of the field? O'Brien had no answer for Pitt putting 10-11 players on the line of scrimmage

    coaches in training cant be knowlegeable veterans. stupid position ot refuse to have legit coaches.



     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : Here are three I dug up real quick. The safety is essentially playing up like a third MLB. One of these, I forget which, was a successful PA fake that winded up being to Branch for a first down. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    looking at these, am i wrong in wondering why pats are not as spread out sideline to sideline as i think they normally do? they're practically bunched up on one side, allowing pitt to load up between hashes and one side. it's not like the pats receivers have the speed to separate on that empty side.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]How do you come off a bye and look so awful?
    Posted by MeanJoe[/QUOTE]

    far as i know only 3 teams in 13 have won coming out of buy week.
    still.
    no excuse
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : you must be kidding. here is the play by play. POSS 1 short pass for 8 run for -1 (shotgun) short pass incomplete punt POSS 2 (Q2) (shotgun) short pass for 7 run by faulk for 2 (shotgun) run by bjge for 2 (got 1st dwn) (shotgun) short pass for 7 run by faulk for 5 (got 1st dwn) (shotgun) short pass to hern - incomplete, but penalty still 1st dwn run by faulk for 2 (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete, but penalty (shotgun) short pass to welk incomplete (shotgun) short pass to branch incomplete (shotgun) sacked punt POSS 3 (After INT) (Shotgun) run by faulk for 2 (Shotgun) short pass for TD POSS 4 short pass for 23 (gained 1st dwn) (shotgun) run by bjge (shotgun) short pass (shotgun) short pass (no huddle shotgun) short pass incomplete (no huddle shotgun) short pass for 17 (no huddle shotgun) sack Timeout (shotgun) short pass incomplete (shotgun) direct snap kick field goal 15 pases to 6 runs in the first half 3rd Qtr POSS 5 run short pass incomplete (shotgun) short pass punt POSS 6 short pass  short pass short pass run (shotgun) short pass (shotgun) short pass incomplete (shotgun) short pass punt missed so through 2.5 qtrs, it was 23 pass attempts to 8 run attempts. balance was an issue! but it was not the only issue. faulk was on the field a lot. faulk's presence also said to pitt that pats were not going to commit to the run. that made it easy for pitt to commit to the pass since they knew faulk was not capable of long yards. if they run with faulk, they will be giving up 5 at most. they were willing to live with that. 
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    this is why ridley should be the back on he field the majority of the time. you will have to make sure he doesnt break it. maybe vereen too eventually. we will see.

     
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