Who should get more blame for this loss?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    OH, and just for future reference. In no way am I saying NE doesn't need a running game. That NE should run an empty backfield. That Bill O'Brien crafted the most amazing game plan. Or anything like that. 

    Frankly, I think NE should have taken a few deep shots to loosen the defense up a bit. Even if they don't work.

    But my point is that you don't use the stats from a loss where you trailed by two or more scores for 55 minutes of the game to talk about balance. 

    The last half of these games always ends up with a team passing it like 20+ times. 

    NE needs a running game. They also need to pass well. They need alot of stuff. 

    They mostly, mostly need to execute, because they were straight up beaten at almost every spot this week. Only Brady, Branch, and Faulk looked like they came to play. 

    Hernandez, Benny, Welker, Ocho and the entire offensive line were invisible today. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : looking at these, am i wrong in wondering why pats are not as spread out sideline to sideline as i think they normally do? they're practically bunched up on one side, allowing pitt to load up between hashes and one side. it's not like the pats receivers have the speed to separate on that empty side.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]


    Because they run a 2TE set, and Welker is their best player not named Brady. You need Welker in the middle of the field. He isn't good outside. 

    That ends up with the team using this wierd 2TE "bunch" as we called it when I was coaching. 

    And yeah. It plays to the strength of this kind of defense. It allows then to keep people close to the line of scrimmage. 

    It works great against 28 of the NFL's defenses. But teams that can do what Pitt, NJ, and Baltimore do will slow this team down. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : this is why ridley should be the back on he field the majority of the time. you will have to make sure he doesnt break it. maybe vereen too eventually. we will see.
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]

    I agree. Ridley should have been given some reps. BJGE wasn't doing much, and even if Ridley doesn't have the "chops" in the playbook, he is a step faster. 

    If he can get to the line a bit quicker, maybe it makes the difference? 

    At any rate. The offensive line wasn't opening any real holes for the runners anyway. The only really effective runs today were shotgun runs sandwiched in the middle of the hurry-up drives. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    zbellino has just about hit on all the issues about this game. Seems like he also had the excellent game plan of Timlin and Lebeau in his pocket.

    In more of a 'General Nature' I think the loss treads well on Bellichicks shoulders as I feel for reasons already mentioned HIS own game plan was lacking, the bend do'nt break led to advantage in TOP for Steelers - keeping Brady off the field. Then NOT using the RB weapons that have proved themselves over playing Faulk? The Steelers Offensive line dominated and protected The QB better than I expected. I do'nt know how much play checkoff Brady has at the LOS but whatever the case he surely can defeat all situations well, that seemed lacking from his usual capability but Brady played a good game. The Gronk TD should have been red flagged.

    Seems to me the Pats lacked big game inspiration. In the end of this loss I just lost a bit of 'IN BILL WE TRUST'! I think his plate is much too full and needs help and that means in the Draft war-room as well with an equal. Drafting 6-7 DBs in the top 2 rounds lately and badly missing on most is a concern. I'm not saying Bellickick is narcistic but he seems to hold on to his bad draft decisions rather than eating crow sooner.

    The team is severely lacking with game changing type players on the D that we are all used to a few years back as it's difficult to replace them. Bellichick made a young defense a lot older bringing in some good people  but his many bad drafts prior to the last two drafts cost them NOW! Yes, I know Hindsight!

    My answer is the overall coaching and decisions is the blame for the loss.
    Romeo and Weis would have  made a big difference!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]To be fair, I saw several key plays in the 1st half where the Steelers were getting away with some pretty obvious holding, which allowed them to have those long drives. But yeah, when the other team has the ball and can put together that many long drives, you are not going to win.
    Posted by FishTaco64[/QUOTE]

    So holding that wasn't called was reason why the Pats lost. Wow....thanks for clearing that up...for a moment there I just thought that they played like crap!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : 7-8 back, 4 or 3 rush the QB, while covering 4 receiving options = classic man zone.. CB's play man and bump to disrupt timing patterns and 4 other guys flood the zone. This kills a team that will pass 35 plus to 11 rushes. Men were loaded at the LOS with the Cowboys too, but they never sent them. They dropped back into the short zone. Watch the game again, they took a page out of the Ryan brothers playbook. We have killed Pitt with the spread for so long they finally wised up. Too bad we never adjusted. 6 rushes by Kevin Faulk, 5 by Lawfirm = a bad game plan.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    The Ryan brothers play aggressive man coverage more than anyone else. In fact, Ne had good success last time they played the Jets because Ryan tried to act like LeBeau and was running zone exchanges. 

    This week, LeBeau was in bump and run. And no, it's not called, man zone. A play where some drop back into zone and others rush is called a zone exchange, unless you are sending more than five rushers, then it is a zone blitz.

    This was agressive man coverage, mostly cover one shell, with very little actual "blitzing" as they were primarly only sending 4 guys, with some five man rushes mixed in.

    Of course, it doesn't really matter. They had their safety up at the line and their corners at the line. Defenses aren't called "run" or "pass." If you have ten guys close to the LOS, with your safety cheating in, you are essentially daring the other team to pass it over your head. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    may i say, "POINT BLANK"

    This from the steelers players coaches and tom e. curran on our failed game plan and performance.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Yep...you are 100% on target here.


    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]I think what it comes down to is this: our defense showed promise entering the bye. Coming out of it, we looked like garbage. That's what concerns me and that's what will determine our playoff hopes this year.
    Posted by kevin13130[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Let's face it. We just don't have the players. We have nobody on D who scares the other team and has to be accounted for. We have no deep threat. We have a hundred mediocre running backs. We're still good because of a few good players, mostly on offense. But how the hell do we win a SB with this?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? :  If you have ten guys close to the LOS, with your safety cheating in, you are essentially daring the other team to pass it over your head. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Are you saying the Steelers weren't afraid of our deep threat?

    It seems we never get open deep unless it's a busted play.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Lots to digest...

    We desperately need someone to step up and be a playmaker on defense...

    Also, not sure if I'm gonna catch grief for this but I'd like to see an actual defensive coordinator get hired. Some sort of change is definitely in order.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    If you can watch replay of game....look at #'s 44..50..24...27.. 93...95... and see why there was such a sad sad performance...  talk about seeming lost...!!!!!!

    The evaluation process seems to be slipping....

    I had to turn it off and watch teams where the defense seems to know what they were doing and fun to look at...

    Sorry but a defensive coordinator is needed to change what the team is doing...PLZZZZZZ  no more prevent defense from 1st quarter till the fourth quarter,,,

    Rather get beat playing one on one that the soft zone that i watched....thats it guys....stay back 10 yards and then turn and run...maybe the Qb will make a mistake..

    other than Mccourty and chung.....they suckkkkkkkkkkkkk

    Other than Mayo and Spikes....all are maybe at best good reserves

    Shame on the evaluators...BB and coaches...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : This has nothing to do with play balance.  The offense should execute whatever plays are called. And you don't just say ... hey, we are going to run only or pass only. IF the Steelers are putting men in the box like they were most of the first half today you run a PA fake, and break a play over their head. That will back them off of the run realy quickly.  They didn't execute.  Passing the ball a few more times wouldn't have likely changed the outcome unless those passes worked better than the other ones before them. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Brady was on the radio last week and was asked about different formations and how we see them on tv, and TB laughed when they said the same thing you were saying about loading the box, you know the D is trying to stop the run.  TB said, which is so obvious, that maybe they are getting set to blitz!!

    We think we know the game and all it details, yet we know little.
      
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]Let's face it. We just don't have the players. We have nobody on D who scares the other team and has to be accounted for. We have no deep threat. We have a hundred mediocre running backs. We're still good because of a few good players, mostly on offense. But how the hell do we win a SB with this?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    This seems right to me.  Just go by unit:

    Secondary--Chung and McCourty are the only guys who might be legitimate NFL starters, but even they look more like back-ups recently

    LBs--Ninkovich and Guyton as starters?  Not exactly world beaters there.

    DL--Wilfork, Carter (old), and a bunch of JAGs

    RBs--I love Kevin Faulk, but when a 35 year old just off the PUP is your main guy, you are in big, big trouble

    WR--Welker, then Branch (who would be an excellent number 3) and then who?

    OL, TE, QB--there is good quality on these units, but you can't win with Brady throwing to Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez every play on offense and no pass defense whatsoever . . . 



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Try thinking less about the "blame"  and more about the fix.....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MuellerTime19. Show MuellerTime19's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    3RD AND 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. 

    IT DOESNT MATTER.


    1ST DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    This is just simply a case of the stats holding true to their numbers.

    The Steelers have the #1 pass defense and it showed.

    The Pats have the 32nd ranked Pass defense, and they def. played to their stats today...

    This front running team has shown that if we get down, most likey we wont get back up. We have to play with a lead and even then we give it up most times. We still have no identity and our defense is now a worn out speed bump.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : The Ryan brothers play aggressive man coverage more than anyone else. In fact, Ne had good success last time they played the Jets because Ryan tried to act like LeBeau and was running zone exchanges.  This week, LeBeau was in bump and run. And no, it's not called, man zone. A play where some drop back into zone and others rush is called a zone exchange, unless you are sending more than five rushers, then it is a zone blitz. This was agressive man coverage, mostly cover one shell, with very little actual "blitzing" as they were primarly only sending 4 guys, with some five man rushes mixed in. Of course, it doesn't really matter. They had their safety up at the line and their corners at the line. Defenses aren't called "run" or "pass." If you have ten guys close to the LOS, with your safety cheating in, you are essentially daring the other team to pass it over your head. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    Which is exactly what I said. The Jets defensive fronts looked the same. The Cowboys had 7-8 bodies at or near the LOS but then would rush 4 at the most, lots of times 3 only. CB's are bumping and LB's even DE's are dropping back in the zone and putting their hands in the air.


    No matter what  the particular defensive set is it is called the results were the same. 7-8 bodies covering 4 receiving options, yet we threw it anyway.

    The pics you showed are pre-snap, when those plays develop as you said there is no blitzing. They drop back. We were throwing into a crowded field. All of this without 3 of the best defensive players against the run. Farrior,Harrison and Woodley going down in the 3rd.

    We were never down by 20. We cannot be one dimensional, and we were.....again.Our only td till the 2 min warning in the 4rth came because the defense picked off Ben inside the 20. Terrible.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss? : Hog, that is what I'm saying. At the same time, big bad Gronk and Hernandez need to win some of their matchups. NE DOES need a physical WR or two. But they still need to execute.  Slandering the 49ers, though, doesn't make much sense. They basically owned the NFL with a finesse offense. The difference was that they had much, much better WRs than NE.  Jerry Rice, John Taylor, et al, is better than Welker and Branch by a mile stretch, and it gets uglier when you get past those two. About the onside kick. They work about 10% of the time in those situations. The defense had been terrible for most of the day, but I would like to think that there is a greater than 10% chance that they stop the Steelers deep. Even if they take six downs and the 2 minutes to stop them, it gives you waay better field position than your own 20 to get the TD. Kick it out of the back of the endzone. Stop them on the thirty. Get a decent return. You have 30 seconds to get 60 yards in stead of 30 seconds to get eighty yards. H-e-c-k if you repeat the same sequence, the Steelers are punting out of the end zone, and you maybe get the ball at the 50 or Steelers' 45. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    They could have exploited the missmatches with Gronk and Hernandez more, but I think Hernandez was nicked up (injured). The point is the Patriots used to be the team that dominated the line and played physical pass defense against finesse teams (Manning-led Colts)and now they are a finesse team that everyone with decent defense plays physical. Sorry for bringing up the Niners, however, the Niners also made use of screens to Roger Craig and quick slants to negate the pass rush. Something the Patriots don't do often enough.O Brien or BB had to find a way to answer the Steelers . They didn't adjust well enough and lost.

    Granted the D played better in the 2nd half, but I don't necessarily see them pinning the Steelers deep and forcing them to punt from the end zone. That is pretty optimistic. The Steelers had a close to ideal gameplan to beat the Pats; Keep Brady off the field, play physical and confuse Brady with blitz packages, exploit the Patriots weak secondary on offense and have time-consuming drives. The Steelers O was on the field for what, 40 minutes of game time. Huge TOP. Awfully difficult to win a game when the other team takes up so much clock.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from profootball. Show profootball's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    First is the coaches.  No adjustment in second half.  Coaching in this game is D-
    In Response to Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?:
    [QUOTE]not too hard to figure it out. the players and coaches
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    Has't anyone figured out a trend here?  With the way the draft is structured eventually the bad teams get better and the good teams get weaker.  Not to long ago the Lions were 0 -16 and the Colts and Pats were unbeatable.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    its Halloween in NE but the horror story was in Pitt..
    team looked old and tired..no heart..
    no adjustments by bb or coaches

    they came ready to lose and it showed on the first pitt drive  for a td and the first ne drive of 3 plays for nothing..
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    I blame the Steelers for playing one of their best games all year! They could have beaten any NFL team Sunday.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from diablotin. Show diablotin's posts

    Re: Who should get more blame for this loss?

    I felt like the D played well enough for us to have a chance to win yesterday.  The offense couldn't stay on the field and did not capitalize when they had the chance.  As bad as the defense looked from a yardage perspective, they kept the game close and only allowed 23 points... if we put our usual offensive point production forward, we kill the Steelers.  The Steelers played with high intensity and the Patriots looked flat, and that was much more obvious when the Pats O was on the field.  I didn't see the defense hanging their heads at any point even though they were outmatched, they played hard through the game and did their best.  The offense did NOT play their best game yesterday.  PICK IT UP, O!!!!
     
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