Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    if there was ever a time to get an elite back, it is now......brady will be good for another few years, but he is in the back nine of his career and he could use a big name player to help open more things up for him....we saw how limited the offense was in the second half when the run game was obsolete
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    thats a bad idea hes half the product of a team with a good o line and runs a ton if our elad back gets 15 carries a game y pay him huuge money......use ridley more
     
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    Re: Who would trade Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would trade Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]MJD is only 26? wow. I think he would command top dollar though for a re-sign. Didn't he lead the league in rushing? I really would like to see us pull the Corey Dillion move with the Rams and S-Jax. I think he would be cheaper then the other 2 in a re-structure and the Rams are in full rebuilding mode...again. J-Stewart would be my 2nd choice again just for the value angle and his intangibles(run, and catch, pass protect etc..) Foster,MJD,Rice these guys are 3 of the top 5 backs in the game and are probably not realistic for us.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the S-Jax move and I've been saying it for a few years now as well.  When the Rams went 7-9 two years ago it looked like they were turning the corner which is not the case.  They are rebuilding and the quickest way is accumulating draft picks.  I also like the option of Stewart.  He's has all the tools but lives in timeshare with DeAngelo Williams who is in the first year of a 5 year 43 million deal.  I can't see Carolina franchising Stewart next year and I would expect him to test the market.  If Stewart would sign an extension maybe the Pats could deal him straight up for a 2nd round pick?  If St. Louis would trade Jax it would probably be for a couple of picks or include Ridley or Vereen.  Jax will also come with a higher cap hit than Stewart.  I doubt the Pats will end up with either of these but they are more realistic than Rice, MJD or Foster.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster? : Houston is in cap jail.  They have to make some cuts.  They are already facing the likely loss of Mario Williams because he is too expensive to use the franchise tag on.  They could and may tag Foster but that move would cost $8MM meaning they would have to make other cuts.  I think there is a strong chance they try to get away with tendering him as a RFA at the first round level which would only cost $2.7MM.  If they do this, any team can make Foster an offer and if Foster accepts, Houston can either match or take the first round pick. Since the Pats are sitting at 31, it doesn't get any cheaper than that.  If Houston matches, we forced them to spend cap they don't have thereby making them cut elsewhere and weakening an AFC play-off contender.  If they match, we lose nothing.  We are in a no lose situation.  RBs are fairly cheap compared to other positions so the contract would not be that bad.  Could probably be done for a $5-6MM cap number and the Pats have more than enough space for it.  The question is, do they want to give up that pick?  This would be similar to the Corey Dillon move, but that was a trade, a second round pick, this would be grand theft because Dillon was a lot older than the 25 year old Foster who is a year younger than BJGE.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I see what you're saying but if Houston makes the first round tender the Pats are competing with any other team interested.  I doubt Foster will sign for 5 to 6 million either.  He's going to want AP, Chris Johnson money at close to $8 million per year with a large chunk guaranteed.  Of course that could go up depending on the contracts of Ray Rice and Matt Forte.  One risk/reward scenario may be Peyton Hillis or Jamal Charles (coming of season ending knee surgery) unless they decide to extend BJGE and see how their rookies develop or possibly pull off a trade for another veteran - Stewart or Jackson could be targets.  Not sure what BB would think of Tolbert from SD?  He's a powerful runner with good hands and great on the goal line.  All I know is if BB trades 1st and 2nd round picks for more picks near I'll pull my hair out.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    I wouldn't give up a first rounder for any RB ever. Too risky, see Peterson, Adrian. Foster wouldn't compile those stats in Foxborough (and by the way, 0.21 ypc difference is not worth a first rounder). Neither would MJD, although I agree he'd be a better choice. Unless they're changing their philosophy entirely, forget about it. This is a passing team. I'd rather have Mike Wallace if we're forfeiting first rounders. The delta between him and what they have at his position is much greater than it is between Foster and the RB corps.  

    Now if you want to talk about Texans FAs, Mario Williams is a lot more appealing...

     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    I don't think that signing Foster is a good idea.  Houston gets to match the offer or gets the pick, so assuming it's just the Patriots Foster negotiates with they still have to make an offer Houston won't match.  That would be much more than the 5 or 6 million originally mentioned and I would think would be from 7.5 to 9.  If the Patriots were willing to spend that much annually I would think that that money would be better spent in other (defensive) areas.  

    Vereen and Ridley's salaries are $465,000 and $509,000 for the 2012 season and each cost about $700,000 against the cap.  Right now the Patriots get good value at that positon if Ridley and Vereen show they can handle the job.  I'd like to see what they could do this year before we throw a bundle of cash at the position.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    I'm sure Houston would be reeaally interested in a 31st pick for Arian Foster...
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

     I would.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    No offense taken Rusty. I don't disagree that they should run it more. Especially when they should be killing the clock. It's baffling actually. Thought the same thing vs. the Ravens. Bottom line though, is they actually do win the SB if Welker catches the ball.  

    Whether Wallace is the best WR they could sign is another question. It stands to reason that he would open things up for everybody else. They have a bunch of plodders, Wallace is the fastest guy in the league.  Now I'd prefer Mario Williams (or a comparable defender) over anybody on offense, but between Wallace and Foster, I'd prefer Wallace. 

    I think we're in agreement that their RBs are not the problem. Law Firm is fine. I was disappointed that they stopped running in the SB and that we didn't see Ridley at all. So the guy fumbled a couple of times. It's not a felony. Every great back in NFL history had fumble issues at one time or another, generally early in their career. That includes Payton and Emmitt and Dickerson and Jim Brown and AP and on and on. 

    You used the GM analogy. I'll use golf. You used to be able to win by keeping it in play and having a great short game. Course management and all that. Now all the courses are 7,400 yards and guys like Dustin Johnson hit it 350 routinely. A Corey Pavin type doesn't have a chance anymore. They're never going back to those old days. The NFL is never going to make to easier to defend the pass, so you need to be able to pass effectively.    

     

     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    Foster is pretty good but the Texans won't allow for both Mario and Arian to leave. 
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    Houston is just short of Cap hell...They have two guys that should be franchised in Foster and Williams and teams can only franchise one player per season. So in theory all NE has to do is sign the one they can't afford and either case I would offer #31 to Houston as compensation and they won't have to offer any additional players or picks as Houst can only tag a player for one Draft pick as compensation should either of the two be signed to an offer sheet by NE.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]thats a bad idea hes half the product of a team with a good o line and runs a ton if our elad back gets 15 carries a game y pay him huuge money......use ridley more
    Posted by Bspikes55[/QUOTE]

    I agree with Spikes, wait until draft day, use that pick on an impact defensive tackle or safety.

    Don't get me wrong buddy, I'd give up a pick for Foster in a heartbeat, just as long as management agrees to give him the ball 25+ times a game.  I think this offense has lost its way over the past few years, it can play run and shoot with the best of them but it can't beat up the other team up when it matters. 

    "Finesse," "soft" are words that come to mind...

    We also have two solid, high pick prospects sitting there with nearly zero miles on them.  Ridley is a gamer who obviously has to learn how to hold on to the ball tighter and, maybe more importantly, know when to just fall down.  Vareen came to camp late and was the odd man out but he is really strong, plays bigger than his frame and is a silky smooth runner.

    We need to get tougher, if they were going to commit to Foster that would mean they would be committing to a tough running game mixed with a deceptive play action that nobody does better than Brady.  

    This brings two questions to the fore of my mind; haven't we been asking for this all season, and wasn't turning undrafted free agents into #1 picks what Belichick does to other GM's, not the other way around? 


     
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    Re: Who would trade Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would trade Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would trade Pick 31 for Arian Foster? : Faucetman, I think you spoke about the below player already and the more I read and heard I really agree that this is who the 31st pick is worth losing if you call it a lost. If he was in this draft where would he be selected? So there, its a no brainier to me.  WR: Mike Wallace After reading and thinking about what should the Pats do in FA/Draft? I found one of the answers: If he is NOT franchised he should be our guy. "With the compensation being a first round pick, the Patriots would only be giving up their 31st overall selection in the 2012 draft for arguably an elite wide receiver. Wallace is being considered an elite receiver; his skill set is perfect for the Patriots' offense. With If Wallace, defenses will have to respect his deep threat or allow him to hit home runs on a regular basis. Wallace is one of the fastest, if not the fastest players in the League. With Wallace on the outside, the Patriots' match up offense would become the un-containable. The quartet of Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Welker and Wallace would ask too many different questions of defenses and require them to be consistent in all facets of play". - - Per The Bleacher Report. KG
    Posted by kenscreen[/QUOTE]
    I would give up pick 31 for either player quite honestly.  Heck, with 2 firsts, we could make a play for both but would need to do some serious work to address the D with the rest of the draft and free agency. 

    In all honesty, I think Foster is the better choice and one that BB might lean towards.  If you consider he gave up pick 56 to get Corey Dillon who was 29 at the time and only had one elite year left out of the 3 he was with us, why wouldn't he give up pick 31 for a guy who is just 25 and who is just as lethal in the passing game as he is in the running game, something Dillon was not?

    I like Wallace too, I was making his case earlier but I think Foster would actually do more for us in terms of ball control and game management.  Foster would touch the ball perhaps 20-25 time a game where Wallace maybe 5-7.  Foster would help keep our D off the field and help us own the time of possession. But I totally agree Wallace is also way worth the pick and he's the one most likely of the two to get restricted vs. being slapped with the tag.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]Houston is just short of Cap hell...They have two guys that should be franchised in Foster and Williams and teams can only franchise one player per season. So in theory all NE has to do is sign the one they can't afford and either case I would offer #31 to Houston as compensation and they won't have to offer any additional players or picks as Houst can only tag a player for one Draft pick as compensation should either of the two be signed to an offer sheet by NE.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]
    Hang on, not so.  Williams is an unrestricted free agent.  Foster is a restricted free agent.  Houston cannot afford to use the franchise tag on Williams because it would cost them $22MM.  However, Houston is said to want to work out a long term deal with Willams before he gets away.

    Foster can be resrticted at the highest level and it only would cost $2.7MM.  Or, since HOU doesn't have the cap to tag Williams, they can use it on Foster paying him $8MM instead.  If a team were to sign Foster under the restricted tag they give up 1 first round pick but if the try to sign Foster under the franchise tag, they would have to give up 2 first round picks.

    There are different types of franchise tags too.  There are Exclusive Franchise Players which mean no club can talk to them and they can't be taken away.  In this case the club has to play the average of the top 5 players at his position, or 120% more than he earned the previous season, whichever is more.

    The Non-Exclusive franchise tag means other teams can sign the player to an offer sheet but would give up 2 first round picks if the original team doesn't match.  Most teams use the Non-Exclusive tag.

    • Correction: As of the new CBA, the franchise tag offer will be the average of the top paid player at the respective position over the last five seasons. This will actually reduce the amount that a team would need to offer a player.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]I applaud Faucetman for being a prime resource and forum accountant for anything cost, salary hits, cap related. Not only with the Pats but the NFL in General. I appreciate you as I'm sure many others as well. Yes, My belief is that with what the Pats offense has now and what it's lacking is that the Pats should play for the 'future is Now' in the Brady era! The Pats 'O' really needs that missing link which is a true and proven RB that an Opposing 'D" must game plan. Anyone who has played the game knows that if an O'line has a feature back they will play harder to make those RB plays work. Its an intangible that surfaces by association. If it means giving up 1st round picks? Then Just DO IT! Perhaps Foster or someone else comparable. keep up the good work
    Posted by palookaski[/QUOTE]
    Thanks Palookaski, I really appreciate those kind word.  I do tend to look at the financial impact more than the talent of players.  This probably comes from the business owner in me and perhaps that there are many other posters who can speak much more knowledgeable on the crop of draft picks out there, than me.  Foster for pick 31 seems like such a smart play.  We should take the $2.75MM we were paying BJGE and Kevin Faulk last year and it would cover about half the cost of landing Foster.

    Do I believe in my heart of heart that BB will do this?  Heck no.  It's a long shot but Free Agency starts tomorrow so things we start to happen soon.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]I don't think that signing Foster is a good idea.  Houston gets to match the offer or gets the pick, so assuming it's just the Patriots Foster negotiates with they still have to make an offer Houston won't match.  That would be much more than the 5 or 6 million originally mentioned and I would think would be from 7.5 to 9.  If the Patriots were willing to spend that much annually I would think that that money would be better spent in other (defensive) areas.   Vereen and Ridley's salaries are $465,000 and $509,000 for the 2012 season and each cost about $700,000 against the cap.  Right now the Patriots get good value at that positon if Ridley and Vereen show they can handle the job.  I'd like to see what they could do this year before we throw a bundle of cash at the position.
    Posted by paularnold[/QUOTE]
    I suggest we make an offer that we feel is fair and one that we are comfortable with.  If Houston matches, no harm no foul.  We keep our pick AND we just forced them to spend twice the money they planned meaning they can now have no hope of extending Williams so they let him go and perhaps Williams was the guy were wanted all along.  If not, we lost nothing and forced an AFC play-off contender to burn cash and cap.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster? : Houston is in cap jail.  They have to make some cuts.  They are already facing the likely loss of Mario Williams because he is too expensive to use the franchise tag on.  They could and may tag Foster but that move would cost $8MM meaning they would have to make other cuts.  I think there is a strong chance they try to get away with tendering him as a RFA at the first round level which would only cost $2.7MM.  If they do this, any team can make Foster an offer and if Foster accepts, Houston can either match or take the first round pick. Since the Pats are sitting at 31, it doesn't get any cheaper than that.  If Houston matches, we forced them to spend cap they don't have thereby making them cut elsewhere and weakening an AFC play-off contender.  If they match, we lose nothing.  We are in a no lose situation.  RBs are fairly cheap compared to other positions so the contract would not be that bad.  Could probably be done for a $5-6MM cap number and the Pats have more than enough space for it.  The question is, do they want to give up that pick?  This would be similar to the Corey Dillon move, but that was a trade, a second round pick, this would be grand theft because Dillon was a lot older than the 25 year old Foster who is a year younger than BJGE.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet - Pats should do this - pardon the pun - "in a NY minute".  This guy was really dynamic vs Raves in playoff game in Baltimore and had they kept giving him the ball in the second half, IMO, would have won the game.  I would not mind taking Arian and Mario Williams as well off the Texan's cap trapped hands!!!
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster? : People were in here raving about Houston during the playoffs and I was warning about their potential cap problems like Pitt has. Do you know what their cap situation is? I chuckle at people like John Clayton and others who make light of teams cap situations.   So and so toook a paycut, so did this guy, etc.   It won't be enough.   Players will get clipped and be on the market. Mario Williams won't like the number he gets from Houston's front office likely because they need to pay Foster and not him.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    Houston is just under the cap right now and that is without Foster and Williams plus they will need about $5MM for their draft picks.  They need to restructure where they can and perhaps cut some people.  No way they can keep Foster and Williams and might lose both.
     
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    Re: Who would Surrender Pick 31 for Arian Foster?

    Reports today that PIT is really worried about losing 60 Minutes.  They don't have the $9.4MM in cap to tag him.  Reports are that some late round picking team like BAL, NE or SF will probably lure him away with a front loaded deal.  PIT keeps kicking the can down the street by restructuring guys like they did today with Colon.  It's gonna bite them.
     
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