Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I disagree with this article but wanted to see others opinions on it.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1146591-why-new-england-patriots-wr-brandon-lloyd-will-fail-in-2012
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    the 2007 year of stallworth was not a failure. he put up respectable #'s and we didn't want to pay him the big money his contract extension would have required.  he did his job, which was to draw heat away from moss.  Do i think Lloyd will be another 2007 Moss, no.  But i think he will have respectable numbers.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots


    I prefer to withhold judgment until the guy actually gets on the field. Crystal balls and tarot cards are notoriously unreliable. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Well, you know what they say about "opinions".   :)

    BTW, I noticed the writers name is Walsh.   I wonder if he's related to Matt Walsh?

    And like Prolate said, "I prefer to withold judgement until the guy actually gets on the field".  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Moss set a record for most touchdowns in a season by reciever, Gronkowski set a record for most touchdowns by a tight end and another for either receptions or yards i think. Welker regularly leads the league in receptions or has been close to it since joining the Patriots. The guy who wrote this article is a complete dope. He probably said last year that Ocho was going to have a record setting season, the bottom line is that nobody really knows. Lloyd has shown in his entire career that he can get open and even more so that he has great hands. He's played in a similar offense with Mcdaniels so picking up the playbook shouldn't be that hard. Stallworth played pretty well here in 07, made a few big catches but there just were not enough plays for him with Moss, Welker, and Gaffeny. Gaffeny is another guy who played well with the Patriots, along with Givens when he was here.. 

    I'm not expecting a great year from Lloyd but he should be decent if he stays healthy, which can't be predicted either.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    This guy is an idiot. Randy Moss didn't end well? They got the best season any WR has ever had for a 4th round pick! It didn't end well because his skills were fading but he didn't want to face that fact. Gaffney was great as a FA pickup, even Reche "Drop the Ball" Caldwell, put up respectable numbers.

    I think Lloyd will be a good signing for several reasons.

    1. He is experience in the Josh McDaniels offense, and had his best years in it.
    2. He excels at making tough grabs in traffic or along the sidelines.
    3. He has the speed to threaten the seep 3rd of the field and clear up passing lanes for Welker and company underneath.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    It doesnt matte what happened to someone else before.  Lloyd
    has just as much chance to succeed as anyone else.

    Stupid article by Walsh, spinning like a top.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Tom Brady doesn't have an issue developing WRs. Bill and the front office do. 

    They do a good job of bringing in veteran talent but have struggled developing younger ones out of college as its not a fine art.

    Lloyd will do just fine here and the open players who make plays will get the ball from Tom. The reason WRs usually don't come out of here is because we have a QB that will expose WRs flaws if they have them in a heart beat. Bad route runner? Not going to work here. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I was against him coming to NE, but have since accepted it. he better live up to the hype and bring the deep threat we need.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    In Response to Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots:
    [QUOTE]I prefer to withhold judgment until the guy actually gets on the field. Crystal balls and tarot cards are notoriously unreliable. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    Amen.  Me too.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZachRudy. Show ZachRudy's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    That article is a joke.  It sounds like a 7th grade science paper:

    State Hypothesis
    Introduce subjective supporting evidence
    State conclusion

    The author is really grasping at straws to try and prove a flawed hypothesis. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    He lost all credibility after mentioning spygate. He says he's a long time Pats fan and yet makes a joke about the most painful event in Pats history? Additionally he tosses the acquisition of Moss aside. Even people who didn't want Moss back the last 2 seasons will say that Moss was an excellent acquisition at the time. Then he falls to mention that the Pats run a complicated system and Lloyd has already succeeded in that system. Yep just another troll poising to be a Pats fan
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Due to the enmity Me and ESPN share with one another (I hate them so much, that deep down I'd like to think even THEY recognize it, and in turn, feel the same towards me- yes, THAT much hate)- Like I said, besides me and ESPN's longstanding war of attrition (I deleted their channel...they know, they know), It pains me to say this, but in terms of at least Sports Sites recognized by Mass Markets (far enough & wide enough), The BleacherReport EASILY and ever since they've come to be pretty widely known, Singlehandedly takes the lead as THE Absolute biggest NE Patriots Hatred Spouting/Slurring WebSite, that there currently is...

    Lol, I don't think I've ever once seen 1 positive (and by positive, I mean a 2 sentence brainlessly fact-based news report on any 1 of NE's happenings...for years...NE-verrr).

    Here, here's Mike Walsh defending his article in the comments section:

    Perk_crop_45x45 Contributor III Michael Walsh 823808 posted about 10 hours ago 1334586177 7424140 7423976 Michael Contributor III
    Let me preface by saying I am a Pats fan and lifelong New Englander, however I'm a realist. They taped practices, got in trouble, its over. Ocho may not be bright, however he had seven 1,000 yd seasons and stayed with just one team for 10 years, Lloyd has one 1,000 yd season and six teams in nine years. Randy was great here, but his career essentially ended here (in terms of value anyway).
    I hope you are right and Lloyd flourishes. Well, except for the last part... I like it here
    ."

    Sorry.  That's got scvmb#g straight-up liar written ALL up & down, side to side, streaming down the edges, seaping out the sides- ALL Over It.  He's a liar...  He knows he is.  He might laughably fake a good many of the everyday-reader brainde#d BleacherReport Fans Nation-Wide (ZERO slights towards the OP here...none).  But the guy's just lying- When I see that you're not only bringing UP SpyGate...randomly & purposelessly out of nowhere...THEN adding on that Matt Walsh (anyone know if he's this guy's brother?) Boston Herald Garbage about NE taping other teams's actual practices (Say whatever ya want RE: SpyGate folks, this aspect has been 100% PROVEN to be an absolute conjured up piece of garbage...by=Like Walsh <this walsh />, Other Scvmb#gs). 

    You're doing this, based on the heels of the initial admission, That "You are a Patriot Fan."  That's a liar...someone who's utterly devoid of any worth whatsoever in my book.

    And yes...He does write like a 7th grader: Right down to the basic method I remember learning in Junior High when attempting to formulate a thesis.

    Initial eye-catching and contradictory big "Wow" attention grabbing statement:


    "There are a lot of things the New England Patriots do well. They never turn the ball over, they coach-up poor defenses, make it to Super Bowls, control the media and videotape signals as well as anyone." 


    Then b#llsh#t 12 year old literary genius turn-of-phrase (EVEN includes, the "However"- awe-some!):

    "However, the residents of Gillette Stadium seem to be allergic to signing and developing successful wide receivers." 

    3 Paragraphs of subjective & speciously reasoned/angular & awkward fitting facts=Bam- Final Paragraph.  So long as ya spelled most monosyllabic words correctly, Mr. Heralds always gave ya an "A" (in between his sips of vodka).
    Good god, these people not only get jobs, but actual recognition on top of it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Mr. Walsh is just desperate to make the point that receivers don't ever do well in New England.  That's such a trip to fantasyland!  When a team has a prolific pass-oriented offense, some of the receivers have to do well almost by definition. 

    Walsh's characterization of Moss's case was such a fudge, saying that his career didn't end well.  Almost no NFL career ends well.  What counts is how the player did when he was healthy.  When Moss was healthy he set an NFL record for touchdown passes scored in a season. 

    Discounting Wes Welker by simply setting him aside is a complete fudge. 

    Setting Hernandez aside by not calling him a wide receiver is a slight fudge.  Hernandez plays wide sometimes.

    2011 was the year of the tight end in New England.  It doesn't mean that Brady wouldn't throw to a capable wide receiver.  It simply means that the tight ends were playing all-pro, that the Patriots offense only had one wideout on some plays, and perhaps that the team didn't have a true #1 or even a #2 wideout to take Hernandez's place.  Most of those other years were wideout years.

    The other issue with Tom Brady is that he spreads the ball out to 9 receivers a game, so that none of them get fantasy football numbers.  That's not a real reason for Lloyd to fail.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I had a feeling there was no point in reading that article.

    I was right.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Yeah dumb article...  so which is it?  

    They don't develop young receiver's (dismissing Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Givens to make his point) or that's where old receiver's go to die (dismissing Welker, Moss)?

    One thing he ignores entirely is that Galloway and the rest cost us peanuts and somehow we lead the league in passing almost every year since 2007 when we broke just about every single season passing record ever. 

    That article was a fail.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I'm with those who prefer to withhold judgment until we see the guy here.  The basis of the article is, as Zach mentioned, totally subjective.  Lloyd knows the system and it has been the system that has been the challenge for the younger receivers as well as Ocho.  I mean Lloyd even got a vote of confidence from Jints; what more does he need?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I'm not totally sold on Lloyd but the premise is absurd. Saying Moss failed in NE makes about as much sense as saying Jimmy Johnson failed in Dallas.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    It should be an interesting preseason.  The competition at WR is strong.  Playing a few "What ifs".  What if Chad learns the playbook and contributes?  what if Lloyd has an average or above average season.  Two speedy receivers running down the field.  A WR that can catch the ball anywhere on the field.  Welker able to cross the middle of the field.  Hernandez able to play the Wr/Te role.  That does not include the contributions of Edleman and Stallworth!  hopefully they will change the rules and allow two balls in play at a time or there will never be enough to go around!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    I think it all depends on how you viewed the acquisition of Llyod - if you thin the guy will catch 100 balls and be the next Randy Moss - you might be disappointed. I think Lloyd will give you 60-75 catches (just what is needed on the outside). If Welker goes, then that number may go up, but if he stays you can't have Gronk catching 100, Welker having 100, Hernadez getting 80 and Lloyd grabbing 100 on the outside...it's not going to happen.

    The guy that wrote this article is forgetting a few things as well...David Patten was a nobody until he played here, Moss had his best season here, Branch too, same with Givens and even Caldwell. We didn't give Lloyd a whole heck of a lot in terms of contract money - all we really did was get a guy with some length and experience on the outside, at a very reasonable price. If it is even reasonably successful it will be a good signing.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    In Response to Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots:
    [QUOTE]I disagree with this article but wanted to see others opinions on it. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1146591-why-new-england-patriots-wr-brandon-lloyd-will-fail-in-2012
    Posted by DoNotSleepOnThePats[/QUOTE]

    I somewhat agree...

    I think he'll be somewhere between Moss and Stallworth, and that's all he needs to be.

    If he catches 10 passes of 20 yards or more, he'll do his job.



    We'll see, though.  I'm taking a flier on him in my fantasy league if I get a chance.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    In Response to Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots:
    [QUOTE]I disagree with this article but wanted to see others opinions on it. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1146591-why-new-england-patriots-wr-brandon-lloyd-will-fail-in-2012
    Posted by DoNotSleepOnThePats[/QUOTE]

         Here's the text of the article...with my comments in bold black:

    There are a lot of things the New England Patriots do well. They never turn the ball over, they coach-up poor defenses, make it to Super Bowls, control the media and videotape signals as well as anyone.

    RESPONSE: The seemingly obligatory "spygate" swipe has grown very old.
     

    However, the residents of Gillette Stadium seem to be allergic to signing and developing successful wide receivers. The list of failed free-agent pickups and trades at the position reads like a veritable who's who of has-beens, never-weres and failed experiments. Why should we believe that Brandon Lloyd will be any different?

    Only one success story comes to mind when you read the headline: "Patriots sign veteran receiver." Wes Welkeris a rarity in New England, and he wasn't even a big-name player. Guys like Joey Galloway, Torry Holt, Donte Stallworth and Chad Ochocinco all made their way through Patriot Place and failed. Hell, even Randy Moss didn't end well.
     
    RESPONSE: What a croc. Welker become a stud with the Patriots. Randy Moss was a stud with the Pats, from 2007-09. Jabar Gaffney was a solid contributor for three years. Donte' Stallworth was a very good complimentary player in 2007. The only reason why the Pats didn't keep him was because they would have been stuck with an $8mil. salary for 2008.
         The Pats' did have to "develop" WRs in the early half of the decade, because they had Troy Brown, Deion Branch and David Givens. In 2007, they had Moss, Welker, Stallworth, and Gaffney. In 2010, they began to have an issue at WR, as Moss' skills declined. I would argue that the problem began then. So, what we're really talking about is a two year problem, triggered by the failed Ochoinco experiment, and the failed Taylor Price/Brandon Tate draft picks.     

    It strikes as a bit of a mystery though. If Tom Brady is such a transcendent quarterback, why can't the Patriots develop any receivers?

    RESPONSE: Stupid. Look at what Brady did in 2006, when the cupboard was bare at WR. One rigged officiated game away from winning another SB. In 2007, when surrounded by WR talent, Tom excelled.

    They have spent high draft picks on the likes of Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Taylor Price and Brandon Tate at the position and haven't had any success. Really the only two wideouts that New England has developed during the Brady era are Deion Branch and David Givens.

    RESPONSE: Again...the Pats found a way to solve the WR problem after Branch and Givens left, by bringing in Welker, Moss, Stallworth, and Gaffney.
     

    This is as prolific an offense as there is in football right now. How does it work? Two dominant tight ends and a dynamic slot receiver is what the Patriots have been the since Moss was sent packing.

    RESPONSE: True.
     

    Brady excels at his own style. What we still don't know is: Does his style mesh well with premier pass-catchers?
     
    RESPONSE: A ridiculous comment. Look at what happened in 2007 when Tom got to play with Randy Moss.

    The Patriots quarterback may be better off passing to Reche Caldwell than Calvin Johnson, a statement that is utterly absurd. 

    RESPONSE: Agreed...this is an absurd statement. If Brady had Johnson to work with, that combo would have aa season similar to what Brady and Moss did in 2007.

    Moving away from the fact that Massachusetts seems to be where name receivers go to die, let's look at Lloyd as a player. At 30 years of age, he is no spring chicken in the NFL, especially at a skill position. In Lloyd's nine-year career, he has played 16 games in a season just three times. On top of that, Robert Kraft will be his sixth different employer since being drafted in 2003. 

    If that doesn't scream both injury risk and attitude issues, I don't know what does. Lloyd has gotten a lot of publicity and notoriety in football circles for what may amount to one outlier season. In 2010 when with the Denver Broncos, Lloyd led the NFL in receiving, catching 77 balls for 1,448 yards.

    Prior to that, Lloyd had never broken 50 catches or 750 yards. Last season in time split between Denver and Saint Louis, Lloyd did grab 70 balls for more than 900 yards, but that was playing for down-and-out franchises with limited offensive weaponry.

    RESPONSE: All true.
     

    Aging wide recievers in the NFL have to be two things; durable and consistent. Neither adjective screams Brandon Lloyd, and the Patriots think so, too. Bringing in a rash of WR talent this offseason doesn't reek of confidence in Lloyd's skills.

    Neither does the fact that they were able to get him so cheap, (three years, $12 million) in a burgeoning receiver market. Lloyd covered his back early by saying he'd take less money to come to New England. In reality, he was never going to get Vincent Jackson money.

    RESPONSE: What this reeks of is the intelligence of the Patriots' front office, not to overpay for Lloyd. If Lloyd remains healthy, I can't see how his signing will be a negative. He's 30...not 33. He has a better set of skills than the washed up Ocho, or the aged Deion Branch. Even if he only caught 50-60 balls this season, it will be an improvement over what the Pats had at WR last year, with Ocho. If Lloyd serves to force secondaries to somewhat respect the Pats' ability to throw deep, his presence will make things easier for the TEs and Welker, underneath. 

    Brady has his top three options pretty much set in stone with Welker, Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Lloyd's role will be a limited one. He will also be competing for snaps with Ochocinco, Stallworth, Branch, Anthony Gonzalez and whatever else the Pats find on the scrap heap.
    Lloyd has been a top dog since 2008 in Chicago, consistently a first or second option for mediocre quarterbacks. In New England, he will have to accept a role and keep his mouth closed if he wants to succeed.

    RESPONSE: True.

    Even in success, though, this won't be the major move fans once thought. Lloyd is a minor cog in a scarily efficient offensive unit. Maybe he will come in and be the consummate teammate and pro that Ochocinco was able to be. But Ochocinco was not a success, his signing was a failure, and Lloyd's resume doesn't have seven 1,000-yard seasons on it.

    RESPONSE: No one here expects the Lloyd addition to have the same impact as when Randy Moss came aboard. But, it's reasonable to expect that Lloyd will have 50-75 receptions, and make several big plays this season. If he does that, he'll command some attention from opposing secondaries...which should in turn help free up Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, and make it easier to establish a running game.  

    It is as reliable as the Madden curse, so mark it down—Foxboro, MA, where the careers of big-name receivers go to die.

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. Randy Moss resurrected his career in Foxboro...and Wes Welker became a star here.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    Nothin to do with this article but worth mentioning. 

    Brandon Loyd had 150 targets last season which was top 10 in the league, he only caught 70 of them...less then 50%. Obviously Brady throwing him the ball that number should go up, but 70 rec's on 150 targets?? For a guy who is supposed to run good routes and has good hands, it makes me a little nervous.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots

    In Response to Re: Why Brandon Lloyd Will Fail With The New England Patriots:
    [QUOTE]Nothin to do with this article but worth mentioning.  Brandon Loyd had 150 targets last season which was top 10 in the league, he only caught 70 of them...less then 50%. Obviously Brady throwing him the ball that number should go up, but 70 rec's on 150 targets?? For a guy who is supposed to run good routes and has good hands, it makes me a little nervous.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Doesn't that have something to do with a QB's accuracy? It's also likely that Lloyd was consistently facing double-coverage last year. Sam Bradford had no one else to throw to. 
     
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