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Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I've been reading why the 23rd overall pick is to much of a reach for Connor Barwin, this is why I believe it's just right even though he could gone by 20.

    What the Pats still need, a good pass catching TE end that can stretch the middle of the field.  With his size and speed Barwin would be that guy on passing 3rd downs.  He has excellent hand and really good speed for his size, not many LBs or S for that matter will be able to cover him 1 n 1.

    We need to have a good rushing OLB on D when we have a team on 3rd and long.  Barwin will give you that, he has the speed and first step to get into the backfield and go after the QB.

    Special teams, I can see Barwin running down on both punt and kickoffs and making plenty of tackles there.  So even though he's not experienced enough yet on OLB he's other abilities and flexibility make him more than worthy to be picked at 23.  He will also develop over the next few seasons as a very good OLB.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    This guy might end up in round 1 but it will be a mistake, i like him alot but he is clearly a second round talent.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Great article, really high on this guy as a Patriot.


    http://cincinnati.scout.com/a.z?s=341&p=2&c=851822

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I hope we draft him i just hope we dont have to use our 23rd pick to get him
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I've been reading why the 23rd overall pick is to much of a reach for Connor Barwin, this is why I believe it's just right even though he could gone by 20. What the Pats still need, a good pass catching TE end that can stretch the middle of the field.  With his size and speed Barwin would be that guy on passing 3rd downs.  He has excellent hand and really good speed for his size, not many LBs or S for that matter will be able to cover him 1 n 1. We need to have a good rushing OLB on D when we have a team on 3rd and long.  Barwin will give you that, he has the speed and first step to get into the backfield and go after the QB. Special teams, I can see Barwin running down on both punt and kickoffs and making plenty of tackles there.  So even though he's not experienced enough yet on OLB he's other abilities and flexibility make him more than worthy to be picked at 23.  He will also develop over the next few seasons as a very good OLB.
    Posted by Pats7393
    Sounds good for a 3rd round pick.  He wasnt a great college TE so lets not over value his ability to play TE.  You dont use first round picks on projects.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Experience is an issue and might be a positive indicator. He showed the ability to adjust to a very different situation last year, one that is perhaps a bigger adjustment than it takes to go from DE to OLB. That's an indication of a player capable of great versatility, football intelligence, and ability.

    I would put the likelihood of Barwin there at 34 quite a bit higher, Z. If not him than English would be at 34 and that would have essentially the same effect for the Pats. Picking out specific individuals for a team is nice, but it is the depth at a position that determines how you approach it. If there are 3 or more players at OLB that you'd be willing to take 34 and are all available at 23, you pass on OLB and draft a different position. I really doubt that the Pats do take Barwin at 23. On the other hand, they may rank a player, say Clay Matthews, far ahead of the others for the role they need filled and as future part of this team, and draft him as the starting ROLB.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Sounds good for a 3rd round pick.  He wasnt a great college TE so lets not over value his ability to play TE.  You dont use first round picks on projects.
    Posted by bunchofpixels


    Yeah. You don't draft Barwin because of his tight end skills. You only draft him as a pass rusher and linebacker.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If you are honest with yourself you'll realize he's not a 1rst rounder,and to the guy who thinks he's a better choice then Sintim is just plain wrong!Sintim is the only true 3-4 olb in the draft,and he comes from a program which is the prototype to what the Patriots use.I'm not saying that I want the Patriots to draft Sintim because I'd really rather the Patriots draft a LT and if one of those is not available then I'd like to see them draft the best available athelete.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I'm talking about him as a TE or OLB only no not worth of the 23rd, but been able to do both and add speed another weapon for Brady.  Playing in special teams as he has proven to be a very good SP players all those abilities making worth the 23rd IMO.

    I think if we don't take him at 23 we'll see him twice a year in a dolphin's uniform.  That's something that will hunt us for years to come. 

    And bunch, they are all prospects some more solid than other but they are all prospects. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Thats some good info Z
    I would like to know where you see Barwin. Is it Vrabel's spot? What do you think us taking English would mean as far as who's where? Would taking Larry put AD back inside or move him over? That could kill two birds with one stone. If he goes inside it would make moving up for Malaluga not necessary while we still get a ILB.

    Do you think if Pettigrew get's passed 23 that Atlanta takes him? On there team page they only list 3 TE's and one is our cast off Jason Rader.

    I would guess the Fins also might look at WR too,maybe DB's and could still sign Taylor.

    From your list. It look's like we just may want to nab a pass rusher if we want one. I would think the teams looking at Barwin between our picks. Think that we could take him at 34 and he'll be gone before they pick again. More than if he slides past 23.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Here is a question for all my friends here. What are the odds that Larry English is still on the board at #34? If forced to choose between English and Barwin (presumably at #23) which would you take? And who goes first? I would answer 30% that he is there at #34. I would likely take English. Anf I think English comes off the board first.
    Posted by zbellino


    If English and Barwin are both gone at 34 then the Pats probably would an option of either Ayers or Maybin there.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I take English ever time. I think his floor is so much higher. At least with English I see  edge setting, run defender and pass rusher. Barwin is passrusher /TE option. Just looking at if's. IF they never become more than what they are. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Z
    I think the odds are slim to none @ 34. With that list and he seems to be a riser as of late. We know the media don't make picks but when Big Willie goes on TV and give you a thumbs up people will listen.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    TP, I like your thinking RE:#23 trade. The best option would be trade #23 for a #2/#3 and a #1 next year.

    I've been going back and forth on all these players......not one stands out @#23.

    Unless Butler or Maulauga are there @#23....we should trade out of it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    He could be Mike Mamula Jr.  Big senior year followed by blow out combine.  Even if he turns out to be a good player he's a 3 year project.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    ZB, what I like about Butler is that he has no real weaknesses, other than his smallish stature....which makes me think twice about him since we already have W&W.

    I don't really know much about Sean Smith other than he's a big corner that could project to Safety due to his lack of elite speed.

    Does he have the fluidity and play recognition that would make him a good starter?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Boy, this guy sure is wonderful.  He plays the whole game!

    Why he won't be picked in the 1st round.  1) Inexperienced.  2) New position...again.  3) You want first rounders to start, not on the bench learning.  4) When did the hype pick up?  After the combine and especially after his pro workout.  Which means...the guy can work out.

    There is no arguement the guy is a great athlete and would make a great Pat type player.  The problem is it would be over time.  We need a pass rush now which is why some folks prefer English over Barwin even at #34.  He's just further along and has a tremendous upside. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If Maybin is there at #23 I owe you a coke. If he is there at #34 you get a steak dinner.
    Posted by zbellino


    okLaughing
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall



    Z-- Where are you getting English's Wonderlic?  That's def. valued info. I'm gonna assume Barwin posted a good score too...he seems like a smart guy from that article and the interviews I've see with him. Also, great post breaking down who might take Barwin/English between our picks.

    I like your point about taking both English and Barwin. I think Barwin lasts till 34 and we take him there. I have a hunch BB thinks English has some LT in him and craves having a dominant pass rusher like him again. A couple questions about English...supposedly he has a history of injuries...also, do you take a guy who could end up being a pass rush specialist (ie. a 3rd down guy) with your 23rd pick?

    As far as Barwin goes...how are people gonna hold the fact that he can play TE in addition to OLB against him? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Barwin has PATS written all over him. I think he's one of the surest bets in the draft and that we'll get him one way or another. I even wonder if he could play some ILB for us. The guy is the type of player that is both intelligent and athletic enough to succeed in many different situations on the football field.

    My top 3 picks for the Pats are: 1.Connor Barwin  2.Larry English  3.Jarron Gilbert (as much as i hate to say it, I think this is Seymour's last year with NE)

    Also, I don't think we'll trade out of 23...the time is now to stockpile talent. The Brady clock is ticking and we want to win again before the clock runs out....which is why I'd be more surprised to see us try and acquire picks next year than use our xtra picks this year to move up (but we'll probably do both).

    For instance, I wouldn't be surprised to see 89 packaged with 58 to move up to 45. That moves us up 13 or so spots versus using it to move 4 or 5 spots in the first round. Or we could package 89 with 47 and move up to 35 or thereabouts, which would probably be the best trade value we could get out of that 89th pick.


     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolpats12. Show coolpats12's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I dont think Barwin is a first round pick. Larry English i way better. I hope we can get in second round.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Boy, this guy sure is wonderful.  He plays the whole game! Why he won't be picked in the 1st round.  1) Inexperienced.  2) New position...again.  3) You want first rounders to start, not on the bench learning.  4) When did the hype pick up?  After the combine and especially after his pro workout.  Which means...the guy can work out. There is no arguement the guy is a great athlete and would make a great Pat type player.  The problem is it would be over time.  We need a pass rush now which is why some folks prefer English over Barwin even at #34.  He's just further along and has a tremendous upside. 
    Posted by garytx

    There's NO player at 23 unless one of the big name guys fall to 23 that will be able to start this year.  All guys on the board will be coming in some reps but there's no starter there.  That is the problem with this draft anything after 20 are players that need to get a year or two under their belt before they can become starters.  It is also why the Pats are in such a good place because from 20 to end of second round the talent is very close.  A team will pick between players with similar abilities based more on the interviews.  Barwin is more athletic that any other hybrid on the board at 23, if you know any guy you pick here will need a season or two to become a starter why not pick the guy with the biggest upside and one that will help you D, O, and ST as a rookie?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Z, good point that busy hands may be difficult to teach. I'm not sure if that's the case, but English is definitely known for having strong, violent hands.

    Considering that Barwin was a Big East basketball player, and a tight end, I'm assuming he has the natural coordination to greatly increase the odds of him developing great hands, even if they may not now or ever be quite as strong as English's.

    You're also right that QB pressure is our top need right now.

    However, even in English's four years in the MAC, he hasn't developed a reputation as an exceptional run stopper. In one year at defensive end in the Big East, Barwin was considered a strong run stopper. From cbssportsline/NFLDraftScout:

    "Run Defense: He needs to continue working on his hand usage at the point of attack, but he does a nice job of locking on and shedding the lead blocker when playing the ball in his area. He has above-average balance needed to make plays in pursuit, showing good knee bend. He will get covered up and contained by bigger blockers when he runs right into the pile, but while he is still a work in progress as a stack-&-shed type, he does a very good job of stringing out plays and playing off blocks on the move. He makes quite a few plays in pursuit and shows the hand strength to shed and make plays while defending the tight end's low blocks. He has very good balance, but must continue to be active with his hands in order to wear down blockers. For a player his size, Barwin has shown very good strength taking on blockers in 2008. He might lack the "sand in his pants" that you look for in a defensive end, but coming off the edge, he has shown steady strides in holding his ground at the point of attack. Still, he is best when making plays on the move."

    Definitely click on the link if you haven't read that scouting report. They break his game down into some 15 different categories, and provide detailed analysis about each one, as well as game analysis of every game. They didn't write one on English, which is unfortunate.

    But it would appear that Barwin is at least English's equal in run defense, and we saw from the linebacker drills that Barwin moves far better in space, making him not only a safe bet for coverage, but potentially one of the best cover 3-4 linebackers in the league.

    English has no experience as a linebacker, and has basically come out and said he wants to play DE for the Bears. Barwin on the other hand has expressed great interest and confidence in his ability to play linebacker.

    As far as lack of experience, I think we need to count his experience as a tight end as worth something, if not a lot. He knows the route running tricks of the tight ends he'll be covering downfield, to a far, far greater extent than English does. And when it comes to hands for making the interception, I'll put all my money on Barwin over English.

    As a tight end and basketball player, Barwin has been developing his extremely impressive ability to move in space, change direction, and react and anticipate balls being thrown from a distance, judge the depth and trajectory of the ball, and make the instantaneous footwork and positional adjustments to put himself in a position to catch or deny the ball.

    English has absolutely no experience doing this, despite his four years at DE, doing something completely different and highly specific.

    You can tell from watching English in the 3 cone and linebacker drills at the combine that his agility and lateral quickness are very limited, despite his exceptional straight line burst.

    I think that English will always be a liability in coverage, although he will improve in it over the years with increased training, and because he seems intelligent. One could argue that most 3-4 linebackers are liabilities in coverage so it's not a big deal.

    Barwin is also 2 inches taller, and has a 5.5 inch andvantage in vertical leap, and their arm lengths are about the same (Barwin 33, English 32 3/4).

    This gives Barwin an advantage of some 7.5 inches when going up to knock down passes, and given Barwin's TE experience, basketball experience, and proven reflexes, it's no wonder he knocked down so many passes and blocked so many kicks.

    I think Barwin is a significantly safer bet to make the transition to a 3 down OLB, and far from  being at an experience disadvantage to English at OLB, it is English who has less experience doing things that apply to this brand new position, OLB. As a tight end for three years, Barwin was learning how to trick and gain position on linebackers and safeties in practice and games every day, experience and knowledge that will help him greatly when covering TEs. English was merely refining his pass rushing skills, and becoming an adequate but not exceptional run stopper.

    English is at square one when it comes to learning how tight ends think, what tricks they use, and how to react and position yourself for a thrown ball.

    I do agree with you that English is the safer bet to immediately succeed as a 3rd down rushing linebacker. I'm not convinced he will be the better long term rusher, but it is possible.

    I do think that Barwin is the better immediate and long term prospect as an all around 3 down linebacker, and we do have Colvin on the roster as a promising 3rd down rush linebacker.

    I'd be happy with English as a consolation prize, but I wouldn't take him first by any means. I think Michael Johnson is both a better pure pass rusher than English, and also a better prospect for eventually becoming a complete 3 down linebacker.

    I also think Barwin has plenty of 4-3 versatility. 255 with room to gain more. Just like English, though less refined at the moment.

    It's entirely possible that Barwin ends up being as successful as Aaron Curry, the only linebacker prospect who compares to Barwin in athleticism and versatility.

    And who knows, in a year or two we could be pleasantly surprised to see Barwin able to cover a couple of the taller, slower WRs in the league.

    Not to mention TE and special teams.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradythebest. Show Bradythebest's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    As everyone is suggesting, if we take both English and Barwin (it doesn't matter who is taken at 23 and who is taken at 34), that is two OLBs and we already have crable from last year and they signed Banta Cain this year and Rudd or Redd is also OLB. How can we have so many spots for OLB?

    I would love to take a ILB and OLB and RB or TE if we don't have any DL or OL are not available.
     
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