Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I've been reading why the 23rd overall pick is to much of a reach for Connor Barwin, this is why I believe it's just right even though he could gone by 20.

    What the Pats still need, a good pass catching TE end that can stretch the middle of the field.  With his size and speed Barwin would be that guy on passing 3rd downs.  He has excellent hand and really good speed for his size, not many LBs or S for that matter will be able to cover him 1 n 1.

    We need to have a good rushing OLB on D when we have a team on 3rd and long.  Barwin will give you that, he has the speed and first step to get into the backfield and go after the QB.

    Special teams, I can see Barwin running down on both punt and kickoffs and making plenty of tackles there.  So even though he's not experienced enough yet on OLB he's other abilities and flexibility make him more than worthy to be picked at 23.  He will also develop over the next few seasons as a very good OLB.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    This guy might end up in round 1 but it will be a mistake, i like him alot but he is clearly a second round talent.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Great article, really high on this guy as a Patriot.


    http://cincinnati.scout.com/a.z?s=341&p=2&c=851822

     
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    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I hope we draft him i just hope we dont have to use our 23rd pick to get him
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I think a better question is "will he."

    I have heard the same people withint the course of a weak go from "#34 is too early" to "#23 might not get it done."

    For a while he was an unknown despite the emergence of Cinnci's defense last season, then he was solidified as a topof the second selection. After a few good workouts people started talking about him in the low/mid first. Now that has died down.

    I think his prospects would be better if he were a bit larger, which would add 4-3 versatility,and if the OLB/DE market weren't so crowded. Although the later part will be partially offset by the tremendous NFL need at these spots. Such an OLB draft must be like water to a parched desert this season.

    Remember, it only takes one team to think he is a goner by their next pick. But he is a tweener there. He isn't the Orakpo/Maybin type juggernaut prospect that everyone loves to love, but I would rank him above players like Sintim, etc that might linger a bit in the second.

    I think there is a 50/50 chance he is there at #34. And based on who is above him, and who else at OLB is availble, waiting could be a chance worth taking.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I would also add that "experience" is overplayed with him.

    Maybin has about the same-- and it is a minor issue. English has more, but only more pass rushing experience, as Barwin probably stood as much in one season as English did on his career.

    So these things have to be taken into consideration as well.

    I would almost look at it as a positive because he looked better and more fluid as a DE, and better as an OLB in the drills than others who had played the spot for several seasons. It is really a testament to his ability to digest his responsibilities, while improving.

    That, plus his tremendous athleticism, makes him have a monster, monster upside as a football player that is matched by few defenders in this draft.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I've been reading why the 23rd overall pick is to much of a reach for Connor Barwin, this is why I believe it's just right even though he could gone by 20. What the Pats still need, a good pass catching TE end that can stretch the middle of the field.  With his size and speed Barwin would be that guy on passing 3rd downs.  He has excellent hand and really good speed for his size, not many LBs or S for that matter will be able to cover him 1 n 1. We need to have a good rushing OLB on D when we have a team on 3rd and long.  Barwin will give you that, he has the speed and first step to get into the backfield and go after the QB. Special teams, I can see Barwin running down on both punt and kickoffs and making plenty of tackles there.  So even though he's not experienced enough yet on OLB he's other abilities and flexibility make him more than worthy to be picked at 23.  He will also develop over the next few seasons as a very good OLB.
    Posted by Pats7393
    Sounds good for a 3rd round pick.  He wasnt a great college TE so lets not over value his ability to play TE.  You dont use first round picks on projects.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Experience is an issue and might be a positive indicator. He showed the ability to adjust to a very different situation last year, one that is perhaps a bigger adjustment than it takes to go from DE to OLB. That's an indication of a player capable of great versatility, football intelligence, and ability.

    I would put the likelihood of Barwin there at 34 quite a bit higher, Z. If not him than English would be at 34 and that would have essentially the same effect for the Pats. Picking out specific individuals for a team is nice, but it is the depth at a position that determines how you approach it. If there are 3 or more players at OLB that you'd be willing to take 34 and are all available at 23, you pass on OLB and draft a different position. I really doubt that the Pats do take Barwin at 23. On the other hand, they may rank a player, say Clay Matthews, far ahead of the others for the role they need filled and as future part of this team, and draft him as the starting ROLB.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Sounds good for a 3rd round pick.  He wasnt a great college TE so lets not over value his ability to play TE.  You dont use first round picks on projects.
    Posted by bunchofpixels


    Yeah. You don't draft Barwin because of his tight end skills. You only draft him as a pass rusher and linebacker.
     
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    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If you are honest with yourself you'll realize he's not a 1rst rounder,and to the guy who thinks he's a better choice then Sintim is just plain wrong!Sintim is the only true 3-4 olb in the draft,and he comes from a program which is the prototype to what the Patriots use.I'm not saying that I want the Patriots to draft Sintim because I'd really rather the Patriots draft a LT and if one of those is not available then I'd like to see them draft the best available athelete.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I'm talking about him as a TE or OLB only no not worth of the 23rd, but been able to do both and add speed another weapon for Brady.  Playing in special teams as he has proven to be a very good SP players all those abilities making worth the 23rd IMO.

    I think if we don't take him at 23 we'll see him twice a year in a dolphin's uniform.  That's something that will hunt us for years to come. 

    And bunch, they are all prospects some more solid than other but they are all prospects. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Kyle you  could be right, but I would place odds based on the fact that it only takes one team to take a player, and a cadre of teams to pass.

    Players in action that could fill that role? I strike out guys that likely will be off the board. The USC pair of over achievers are italicized because they are in play in the mid to late first, and I would reckon solidly based on interest around the league. Which leaves group three.

    I would never say that Barwin and English accomplish the same thing, because I would project them as opposite side players, with Barwin being a more athletic strong side OLB, and English being a classic weak side edge rusher. Ne could take both and not really waste anything, because they are very different. Outside linebackers not being interchangeable commodities.

    Orakpo
    Maybin
    Ayers
    Everette Brown


    Cushing
    Matthews


    Barwin
    English
    Kruger
    Sintim
    Johnson

    That said, here are a list of teams between the two picks. Teams in bold have worked him out, AND have a need at the position that requires addressing. The rumor, and this is another rumor, is that Buffalo and Cincy are really high on this kid, and that he won't make it past the low 40's. This could easily be misguied, like the Cliff Avril at #53 to Pitt last season, or it could be like Merling, that reporters had pegged as a Dolphin based on team interest. So take it for what it is worth. But it is enough to (I think) possibly generate action in the first, if all other options are exhausted for these teams and they have him next in line.

    24     Atlanta Falcons -- targeting pass rushers (and defenders in general)
    25     Miami Dolphins -- targeting pass rushers, but could be looking at #44.
    26     Baltimore Ravens -- targeting defenders, but have worked every WR in the top tier so, no
    27     Indianapolis Colts -- Would use a light DE, but probably not targeting outside defenders
    28     Philadelphia Eagles (from Carolina) -- targeting pass rushers
    29     New York Giants -- targeting WR I suppose
    30     Tennessee Titans -- targetting DE's and DT's, not sure if he fits in this scheme
    31     Arizona Cardinals -- targetting a RB
    32     Pittsburgh Steelers -- not targeting OLBs
    33     Detroit Lions -- targeting everything that has a pulse and can wear a jock

    It sounds like an odd way to set odds, but it has served me in the past. For instance, I would say the odds that Jackson is there past #12 at 50/50 and I am sure a lot of people would place the odds lower. But it only takes one team with the need and no other options (I would imagine Sanchez and Raji being gone makes it an easier selection) to make the selection.

    Plus, the teams that have worked Barwin all have something in common, they all select between #23 and #44. Hence, I don't think 50/50 is outlandish at 34. Unless, of course we are imagining him at as a possiblity at the high fifties/low sixites, as a third/second tweener, which I would place as a much lower possibility.

    so the problem for teams like Miami, Ne and ATl is that there is while there is very little chance he is gone by their first selection, the Falcons especially (and especially if they trade #55 for Gonzalez) would really have to evaluate if he is going to make it past NE at #34.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Here is a question for all my friends here. What are the odds that Larry English is still on the board at #34?

    If forced to choose between English and Barwin (presumably at #23) which would you take?

    And who goes first?

    I would answer 30% that he is there at #34.
    I would likely take English.
    Anf I think English comes off the board first.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Thats some good info Z
    I would like to know where you see Barwin. Is it Vrabel's spot? What do you think us taking English would mean as far as who's where? Would taking Larry put AD back inside or move him over? That could kill two birds with one stone. If he goes inside it would make moving up for Malaluga not necessary while we still get a ILB.

    Do you think if Pettigrew get's passed 23 that Atlanta takes him? On there team page they only list 3 TE's and one is our cast off Jason Rader.

    I would guess the Fins also might look at WR too,maybe DB's and could still sign Taylor.

    From your list. It look's like we just may want to nab a pass rusher if we want one. I would think the teams looking at Barwin between our picks. Think that we could take him at 34 and he'll be gone before they pick again. More than if he slides past 23.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Here is a question for all my friends here. What are the odds that Larry English is still on the board at #34? If forced to choose between English and Barwin (presumably at #23) which would you take? And who goes first? I would answer 30% that he is there at #34. I would likely take English. Anf I think English comes off the board first.
    Posted by zbellino


         Z:

         Why do you prefer English over Barwin?

         Miami (#25) and Philly (#21 & 28) are threats to select either player. Unless a guy like Maualuga or a top OL or DL slips down to #23, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Pats trade down.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Here is a question for all my friends here. What are the odds that Larry English is still on the board at #34? If forced to choose between English and Barwin (presumably at #23) which would you take? And who goes first? I would answer 30% that he is there at #34. I would likely take English. Anf I think English comes off the board first.
    Posted by zbellino


    If English and Barwin are both gone at 34 then the Pats probably would an option of either Ayers or Maybin there.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I take English ever time. I think his floor is so much higher. At least with English I see  edge setting, run defender and pass rusher. Barwin is passrusher /TE option. Just looking at if's. IF they never become more than what they are. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Z
    I think the odds are slim to none @ 34. With that list and he seems to be a riser as of late. We know the media don't make picks but when Big Willie goes on TV and give you a thumbs up people will listen.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

         7393:

         Barwin at #23 seems too high. But, if the Pats do take him there, it won't be to play him at TE. It will be to use him as a 3-4 OLB.

         I don't see him becoming a Patriot to pick #34. OurLads has him ranked 3rd among DEs, with a 9.27 rating on a scale from 1-10. Mel Kiper has him rated much lower (6th among DEs), but still with a high rating of 9.1. Barwin is very athletic, but raw. He in some ways reminds me of the top workout warrior from last years' draft, Vernon Gholston. The bust that is Gholds garnered a 9.59 last year with OurLads, and a 9.5 from Kiper...as both ranked him second to Chris Long as the top DE of the 2008 draft class.      

         It wouldn't surprise me to see the Pats trade down from that 23rd spot...unless a specific player that they targeted falls to them.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    TP, I like your thinking RE:#23 trade. The best option would be trade #23 for a #2/#3 and a #1 next year.

    I've been going back and forth on all these players......not one stands out @#23.

    Unless Butler or Maulauga are there @#23....we should trade out of it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

         Z:      Why do you prefer English over Barwin?      Miami (#25) and Philly (#21 & 28) are threats to select either player. Unless a guy like Maualuga or a top OL or DL slips down to #23, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Pats trade down.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    It wouldn't surprise me to see NE trade #23 down either. It is a somewhat awkward spot to select for NE this season. On the one hand big time talent like Tyson Jackson will be off the board, on the other, it may be overkill to get the next player on their board. So if they could get extra value then so be it. The problem with a general statement about trading is that it isn't plausible unless there is a player who would move for it. The question is what player at #23 would entice someone to move up? I can't think of many. Certainly there is no RB or WR at that point that could move people. There will be no OT that will be head and shoulders better. So it is a tough spot. Maybe Freeman,if he slipped there, could generate action. If Tyson Jackson lands there, Ne takes him. And I would think that if Jenkins dropped they would take him over trading as well. So it is hard to figure who would get it done.

    Why do I like English? A few reasons. As a dedicated rusher he is prototypical. His hand usage is elite -- and sometimes you cannot coach busy hands. For a man of his strength his first step is amazingly fast. He knows how to pursue. He looks like a natural pass rusher. And he scored a 34 on the wonderlic -- which is huge. He reminds me of my favorite linebacker in the NFL from a total skills perspective: Terrell Suggs. I think he has a chance to be a better pro than he was a college player with the right coaching. But at the least, he could step right in on 3rd down packages as a pass rush specialist.

    I could laud Barwin equally. They are both great prospects. I would take English based on his track record and the fact that he would answer the biggest problem NE has in the middle four, which is generating pressure. The OLB crop is such, this season, that a case could be made for so many guys.

    Another guy people shouldn't sleep on is Paul Kruger.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    He could be Mike Mamula Jr.  Big senior year followed by blow out combine.  Even if he turns out to be a good player he's a 3 year project.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    TP, I like your thinking RE:#23 trade. The best option would be trade #23 for a #2/#3 and a #1 next year. I've been going back and forth on all these players......not one stands out @#23. Unless Butler or Maulauga are there @#23....we should trade out of it.
    Posted by pats-fan-2007



    Butler will be there at #23. And I wouldn't be against that either. It would really solidify the DB crew for some time to come. Which would be comforting considering the turmoil last season. I don't want to go back to that. My only knock on Butler is that he is a bit of a finese corner, which is fine and dandy. But it would be nice to take on someone more physical at the same time. I think Sean Smith, who could be had later, would be a great compliment to the young and old on the roster.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If English and Barwin are both gone at 34 then the Pats probably would an option of either Ayers or Maybin there.
    Posted by KyleCleric2



    If Maybin is there at #23 I owe you a coke. If he is there at #34 you get a steak dinner.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    ZB, what I like about Butler is that he has no real weaknesses, other than his smallish stature....which makes me think twice about him since we already have W&W.

    I don't really know much about Sean Smith other than he's a big corner that could project to Safety due to his lack of elite speed.

    Does he have the fluidity and play recognition that would make him a good starter?

     
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