Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Boy, this guy sure is wonderful.  He plays the whole game!

    Why he won't be picked in the 1st round.  1) Inexperienced.  2) New position...again.  3) You want first rounders to start, not on the bench learning.  4) When did the hype pick up?  After the combine and especially after his pro workout.  Which means...the guy can work out.

    There is no arguement the guy is a great athlete and would make a great Pat type player.  The problem is it would be over time.  We need a pass rush now which is why some folks prefer English over Barwin even at #34.  He's just further along and has a tremendous upside. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If Maybin is there at #23 I owe you a coke. If he is there at #34 you get a steak dinner.
    Posted by zbellino


    okLaughing
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall



    Z-- Where are you getting English's Wonderlic?  That's def. valued info. I'm gonna assume Barwin posted a good score too...he seems like a smart guy from that article and the interviews I've see with him. Also, great post breaking down who might take Barwin/English between our picks.

    I like your point about taking both English and Barwin. I think Barwin lasts till 34 and we take him there. I have a hunch BB thinks English has some LT in him and craves having a dominant pass rusher like him again. A couple questions about English...supposedly he has a history of injuries...also, do you take a guy who could end up being a pass rush specialist (ie. a 3rd down guy) with your 23rd pick?

    As far as Barwin goes...how are people gonna hold the fact that he can play TE in addition to OLB against him? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Barwin has PATS written all over him. I think he's one of the surest bets in the draft and that we'll get him one way or another. I even wonder if he could play some ILB for us. The guy is the type of player that is both intelligent and athletic enough to succeed in many different situations on the football field.

    My top 3 picks for the Pats are: 1.Connor Barwin  2.Larry English  3.Jarron Gilbert (as much as i hate to say it, I think this is Seymour's last year with NE)

    Also, I don't think we'll trade out of 23...the time is now to stockpile talent. The Brady clock is ticking and we want to win again before the clock runs out....which is why I'd be more surprised to see us try and acquire picks next year than use our xtra picks this year to move up (but we'll probably do both).

    For instance, I wouldn't be surprised to see 89 packaged with 58 to move up to 45. That moves us up 13 or so spots versus using it to move 4 or 5 spots in the first round. Or we could package 89 with 47 and move up to 35 or thereabouts, which would probably be the best trade value we could get out of that 89th pick.


     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolpats12. Show coolpats12's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I dont think Barwin is a first round pick. Larry English i way better. I hope we can get in second round.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Boy, this guy sure is wonderful.  He plays the whole game! Why he won't be picked in the 1st round.  1) Inexperienced.  2) New position...again.  3) You want first rounders to start, not on the bench learning.  4) When did the hype pick up?  After the combine and especially after his pro workout.  Which means...the guy can work out. There is no arguement the guy is a great athlete and would make a great Pat type player.  The problem is it would be over time.  We need a pass rush now which is why some folks prefer English over Barwin even at #34.  He's just further along and has a tremendous upside. 
    Posted by garytx

    There's NO player at 23 unless one of the big name guys fall to 23 that will be able to start this year.  All guys on the board will be coming in some reps but there's no starter there.  That is the problem with this draft anything after 20 are players that need to get a year or two under their belt before they can become starters.  It is also why the Pats are in such a good place because from 20 to end of second round the talent is very close.  A team will pick between players with similar abilities based more on the interviews.  Barwin is more athletic that any other hybrid on the board at 23, if you know any guy you pick here will need a season or two to become a starter why not pick the guy with the biggest upside and one that will help you D, O, and ST as a rookie?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Z, good point that busy hands may be difficult to teach. I'm not sure if that's the case, but English is definitely known for having strong, violent hands.

    Considering that Barwin was a Big East basketball player, and a tight end, I'm assuming he has the natural coordination to greatly increase the odds of him developing great hands, even if they may not now or ever be quite as strong as English's.

    You're also right that QB pressure is our top need right now.

    However, even in English's four years in the MAC, he hasn't developed a reputation as an exceptional run stopper. In one year at defensive end in the Big East, Barwin was considered a strong run stopper. From cbssportsline/NFLDraftScout:

    "Run Defense: He needs to continue working on his hand usage at the point of attack, but he does a nice job of locking on and shedding the lead blocker when playing the ball in his area. He has above-average balance needed to make plays in pursuit, showing good knee bend. He will get covered up and contained by bigger blockers when he runs right into the pile, but while he is still a work in progress as a stack-&-shed type, he does a very good job of stringing out plays and playing off blocks on the move. He makes quite a few plays in pursuit and shows the hand strength to shed and make plays while defending the tight end's low blocks. He has very good balance, but must continue to be active with his hands in order to wear down blockers. For a player his size, Barwin has shown very good strength taking on blockers in 2008. He might lack the "sand in his pants" that you look for in a defensive end, but coming off the edge, he has shown steady strides in holding his ground at the point of attack. Still, he is best when making plays on the move."

    Definitely click on the link if you haven't read that scouting report. They break his game down into some 15 different categories, and provide detailed analysis about each one, as well as game analysis of every game. They didn't write one on English, which is unfortunate.

    But it would appear that Barwin is at least English's equal in run defense, and we saw from the linebacker drills that Barwin moves far better in space, making him not only a safe bet for coverage, but potentially one of the best cover 3-4 linebackers in the league.

    English has no experience as a linebacker, and has basically come out and said he wants to play DE for the Bears. Barwin on the other hand has expressed great interest and confidence in his ability to play linebacker.

    As far as lack of experience, I think we need to count his experience as a tight end as worth something, if not a lot. He knows the route running tricks of the tight ends he'll be covering downfield, to a far, far greater extent than English does. And when it comes to hands for making the interception, I'll put all my money on Barwin over English.

    As a tight end and basketball player, Barwin has been developing his extremely impressive ability to move in space, change direction, and react and anticipate balls being thrown from a distance, judge the depth and trajectory of the ball, and make the instantaneous footwork and positional adjustments to put himself in a position to catch or deny the ball.

    English has absolutely no experience doing this, despite his four years at DE, doing something completely different and highly specific.

    You can tell from watching English in the 3 cone and linebacker drills at the combine that his agility and lateral quickness are very limited, despite his exceptional straight line burst.

    I think that English will always be a liability in coverage, although he will improve in it over the years with increased training, and because he seems intelligent. One could argue that most 3-4 linebackers are liabilities in coverage so it's not a big deal.

    Barwin is also 2 inches taller, and has a 5.5 inch andvantage in vertical leap, and their arm lengths are about the same (Barwin 33, English 32 3/4).

    This gives Barwin an advantage of some 7.5 inches when going up to knock down passes, and given Barwin's TE experience, basketball experience, and proven reflexes, it's no wonder he knocked down so many passes and blocked so many kicks.

    I think Barwin is a significantly safer bet to make the transition to a 3 down OLB, and far from  being at an experience disadvantage to English at OLB, it is English who has less experience doing things that apply to this brand new position, OLB. As a tight end for three years, Barwin was learning how to trick and gain position on linebackers and safeties in practice and games every day, experience and knowledge that will help him greatly when covering TEs. English was merely refining his pass rushing skills, and becoming an adequate but not exceptional run stopper.

    English is at square one when it comes to learning how tight ends think, what tricks they use, and how to react and position yourself for a thrown ball.

    I do agree with you that English is the safer bet to immediately succeed as a 3rd down rushing linebacker. I'm not convinced he will be the better long term rusher, but it is possible.

    I do think that Barwin is the better immediate and long term prospect as an all around 3 down linebacker, and we do have Colvin on the roster as a promising 3rd down rush linebacker.

    I'd be happy with English as a consolation prize, but I wouldn't take him first by any means. I think Michael Johnson is both a better pure pass rusher than English, and also a better prospect for eventually becoming a complete 3 down linebacker.

    I also think Barwin has plenty of 4-3 versatility. 255 with room to gain more. Just like English, though less refined at the moment.

    It's entirely possible that Barwin ends up being as successful as Aaron Curry, the only linebacker prospect who compares to Barwin in athleticism and versatility.

    And who knows, in a year or two we could be pleasantly surprised to see Barwin able to cover a couple of the taller, slower WRs in the league.

    Not to mention TE and special teams.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradythebest. Show Bradythebest's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    As everyone is suggesting, if we take both English and Barwin (it doesn't matter who is taken at 23 and who is taken at 34), that is two OLBs and we already have crable from last year and they signed Banta Cain this year and Rudd or Redd is also OLB. How can we have so many spots for OLB?

    I would love to take a ILB and OLB and RB or TE if we don't have any DL or OL are not available.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    arodrambone, very good analysis.  I am with you on this one.  When comparing Barwin and English, in terms of their fit specifically for the Patriots, I'd take Barwin, and I really don't think its close.

    Are there things that English is more advanced at than Barwin at this point? Definitely. And he may be more ready to make an impact on defense from the first game of the season, although I think Barwin will catch up quickly.  Barwin also can contribute on offense on the goal line, and many people don't mention how much BB values special teams.  Barwin is a beast in that area.  3 blocked kicks in one year is ridiculous.

    Long term, I think Barwin's body type and athleticism is a better fit for 3-4 OLB than English.  His ability to play in space is far superior, and he has more upside as a rusher.

    I think Larry English will be a terrific 4-3 end, and maybe even a good 3-4 linebacker.  Barwin however, fits the 3-4 mold perfectly, in my opinion, and can contribute in all areas of the game while he learns the defense.  I think he could be a full time player by the middle to end of his rookie year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    As everyone is suggesting, if we take both English and Barwin (it doesn't matter who is taken at 23 and who is taken at 34), that is two OLBs and we already have crable from last year and they signed Banta Cain this year and Rudd or Redd is also OLB. How can we have so many spots for OLB? I would love to take a ILB and OLB and RB or TE if we don't have any DL or OL are not available.
    Posted by Bradythebest

    All those OLBs do not make me feel good about the OLB situation, Bata Cain has now failed or not played to his ability for two teams.  I don't think he'll be more that a back up, I love Crable and hope he can develop into a very good OLB.  Rudd will have a hell of a time to make the team, I don't think he'll be there in September.  We need a impact player and someone that can take over for snaps for AT.  I agree that if at 23 one of the big Ts fall we take the T and pickup one of the OLB at 34.  At ILB I really like Laurinaitis over RM, I might be crazy but I see JL as a three down LB and RM as a two.  But I would see ILB been taken in the 3rd round, I really like Jasper Brinkley or Scott McKillop at 87.
    A guy to keep an eye on is TE Bear Pascoe, he should be there in the 5th and would be a good pickup.  He was a QB converted to TE, not a speed guy but has good hands and will go fight for the ball.  Won't stretch the field but that's what the WRs are used for.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Z-- Where are you getting English's Wonderlic? 

    RESPONSE: Z is right about English scoring a 34. Heres'  a good article on him:  http://www.daily-chronicle.com/articles/2009/03/27/47518712/index.xml

    I'm gonna assume Barwin posted a good score too...he seems like a smart guy from that article and the interviews I've see with him. Also, great post breaking down who might take Barwin/English between our picks. I like your point about taking both English and Barwin. I think Barwin lasts till 34 and we take him there.

    RESPONSE: There are varied opinions on Brawin. Philadelphia at #21 and #28, or Miami at #25, might be willing to nab him. Because none of us have access to the Pats' scouting reports, its' hard to judge who the Pats might like best between English and Barwin. But, based on what I know about both players, I tend to agree with Z...that I would take English over Barwin. 

    I have a hunch BB thinks English has some LT in him and craves having a dominant pass rusher like him again. A couple questions about English...supposedly he has a history of injuries...also, do you take a guy who could end up being a pass rush specialist (ie. a 3rd down guy) with your 23rd pick?

    RESPONSE: Again, we have no way of knowing what the Patriots are thinking. Surely, their scouts have given their opinion on these matters.

    As far as Barwin goes...how are people gonna hold the fact that he can play TE in addition to OLB against him? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    RESPONSE: Who is doing that? The main criticism of Barwin is that he has only played DE for one season...and that hes' still a work in progress. Where some people see the next Mike Vrabel, others see the next Mike Maumula.

    Barwin has PATS written all over him. I think he's one of the surest bets in the draft and that we'll get him one way or another. I even wonder if he could play some ILB for us. The guy is the type of player that is both intelligent and athletic enough to succeed in many different situations on the football field.

    RESPONSE: What makes you say that Barwin is "one of the surest bets in the draft"? Vernon Gholston had even more athleticism and potential, and he crashed and burned (as many Jets do...LOL!!)

    My top 3 picks for the Pats are: 1.Connor Barwin  2.Larry English  3.Jarron Gilbert (as much as i hate to say it, I think this is Seymour's last year with NE) Also, I don't think we'll trade out of 23...the time is now to stockpile talent.

    RESPONSE: Trading down could help to "stockpile talent", as well as maximizing value for the 23rd overall pick. Interesting that you mentioned Jarron Gilbert. He would be a great selection at #34.

    Posted by ush


         Can't wait until April 25th!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Here's the wait I'll look at the two and my choice to prefer Barwin.  Who has the ability to contribute more to the team in 2009, I think Barwin will base on his versatility.  Which of the two can rush the passer, they both can English had 8 sacks against Barwin's 11.  Neither played against real strong competition English in the MAC Barwin in the Big East but I tend to believe BE has slightly better competition than the MAC.
    Barwin has better combine #s although I won't put too much into those.  Neither has really played OLB and English has the more experience on the D. 
    Neither has the experience in coverage but I tend to believe based on his physical abilities and athleticism Barwin can learn and be a more productive cover OLB than English.  I'm not in the draft room with BB that day but I would suggest Barwin at 23, hope English is there at 34.  With all the been said most mocks have the Pats picking Clay Matthews so who the hell knows. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I would say that Barwin is a much safer pick than Gholston and would never compare him to Mamula either.

    He is an extremely intelligent player who has grasped new roles and changes quickly.  He has a football player's body. He certainly isn't a combine freak. His numbers were very good but no eye-popping. Moreover, he can stand. If you can play TE, you can stand.

    Gholston was a a gymrat with a body-builder's physique. He had tight hips, and you could tall by watching him he wouldn't be able to do linebacker things. Moreover, he had no actual pass-rush skills-- just brute force. In the NFL a fat, out of shape technician at LT will put the best athlete with no skills right on his rear-end.

    Furthermore, far from becoming one of the smoothest players at his spot in one year, it took Gholston two seasons before he was smart enough to play end. Just like in high school. I don't think he will ever have the intellect to play at a high level in the NFL.

    Gholston was a low character, low smarts, athlete, if I ever saw one. Barwin is a very high character, high football IQ, football player if i have ever seen one.

    Apples and Oranges.

    If I would compare a player to Gholston it would be Johnson from GT or Maybin. Guys with freak triangle numbers, that have low football smarts, and will get nabbed ahead of where they should be taken.

    Barwin isn't that much of a project. Other DE/OLB players with one year experience: Maybin, Clay Matthews. Neither get dogged bad because one is coming out early and the other sat on the bench and played special teams.

    While I don't think one year playing time is a deal-breaker, and like I said, the fact that he can do more at end after one season than other players who had been in the role for seasons-- I *would* regard the fact that English is a very rare four year starter.

    But they are two different players. Barwin will be a strongsider, who can cover TE's, set an edge, call out defensive signals, and rush, etc. English would be a weaksider, who would spend most of his time chasing runners and QB's and occaisonally dropping back into zone coverage.

    It is really a 1.a/1.b but I think English answers the biggest question as he is a natural pass rusher. And having a wonderlic higher than Matt Ryan or Peyton Manning helps, LOL.

    This isn't a tirade, just I think comparing him to Gholston is unfair. He was always scouted well, and unlike Gholston, whose combine was *freakish* he hasn't really been the beneficiary of undue hype. IMHO.

    He is what he is. A borderline first/second prospect, with a low floor and high ceiling based on his exceptional work ethic and IQ. And his decent numbers are just a bonus.

    For the other poster, I found his score because he said it in an interview. I believe, IIRC, that Barwin posted a 29, which is another monster score for an NCAA player,and much higher than the average of 20 at LBer. And is actually higher than the average at Qb which is like 24.

    On a quick internet grab here are some low and high players from this year:

    Matt Stafford -- 38
    USC Sanchez -- 28
    Josh Freeman -- 27

    Arizona's Eben Britton - 31
    Bama's Andre Smith -- 17
    Virginia's Eugene Monroe - 24
    Baylor's Jason Smith - 23
    Ole Miss's Michael Oher - 19

    USC's Clay Matthews - 27
    USC's Brian Cushing - 23
    NIU's L. English -- 34
    Cinci's C. Barwin -- 29
    USC's Rey Maualuga -- 15

    Michigan's Louis Delmas - 12

    TT's Michael Crabtree --15
    Maryland's Darrius Heyward-Bey -- 14
    Gator Percy Harvin -- 12
    UNC Hakeem Nicks -- 11 (I think this is the lowest since Vince Young got a 7)
    Mizzou's Jeremy Maclin -- 25

    While it isn't a deal-breaker, Ne has tended to pass on players with abnormally low wonderlic scores, and has gravitated toward players with high wonderlics.

    Some references are
    Brady -- 33
    Mayo -- 26
    Terrence Wheatley -- 21 (which is high for a CB where they average something like 16)
    And IIRC, didn't Watson score a ridiculous 37 or something? That is high even for TE's who tend high.

    The only spot where NE has taken low scores is, suprise suprise, on the defensive line, where (at least in a 3-4) it doesn't matter so much.

    Position also matters. A power RT/maybe LT player like Otah? Not necesarily a deal breaker-- although looking baffled and overmatched by the new plays and talent at the Senior Bowl also hurts. I think Tackle's score high in general though, so no telling what scouts will make of it.

    But, this is especially crippling for a player like Rey Maualuga, as both inside linebackers share the responsibility of playing defensive QB. He also had a mized Senior Bowl, being caught out of position quite a few times, although he did make some big hits.

    If anything this confirms one of my suspicions, that Eben Britton is about the most under-rated prospect this draft has, and is worthy of consideration himself when you consider his track record on tape, his *superb* triangle numbers, and his mental aptitude, he seems like a kind of player NE covets, and a guy who could push Matt Light to the right side, and Kazcur to the bench.

    If anyone can find wonderlics on Rashad Johnson, Pat Chung, Will Moore, Darius Butler, Jamon Meredith I would be obliged. Some times you need to dig, like I did for English. Sometimes it is a front page story like for RM.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    zbellino, I really do enjoy your in-depth posts, keep them coming! Smile
    Back to the subject of the discussion, instead of Barwin, I would love to see Everette Brown at #23. That guy is a pure playmaker, tremendous first step and great spin moves. He might be a tad too short for a 3-4 OLB (pb VS the run?)... Reminds me of Dwight Freeney.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    This is why there needs to be a restructuring of what Draftees get paid.  I feel C.B. is the poster boy for today's over hyped player.

    He tested very well (combine numbers).  Yet he has limited experience at a position where he played against questionable talent.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    There's NO player at 23 unless one of the big name guys fall to 23 that will be able to start this year.  All guys on the board will be coming in some reps but there's no starter there.  That is the problem with this draft anything after 20 are players that need to get a year or two under their belt before they can become starters.  It is also why the Pats are in such a good place because from 20 to end of second round the talent is very close.  A team will pick between players with similar abilities based more on the interviews.  Barwin is more athletic that any other hybrid on the board at 23, if you know any guy you pick here will need a season or two to become a starter why not pick the guy with the biggest upside and one that will help you D, O, and ST as a rookie?
    Posted by Pats7393


    There are several CBs that would be able to contribute right off the bat both on defense and on specail teams.  Brandon Pettigrew would be able to contribute some I would think.  Those are some just off the top of my head.  Probably English as well.
     
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    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I'll pass.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    There are several CBs that would be able to contribute right off the bat both on defense and on specail teams.  Brandon Pettigrew would be able to contribute some I would think.  Those are some just off the top of my head.  Probably English as well.
    Posted by garytx


         gary:

         When a player is drafted, the team that takes him not only acquires his talents, but his character.

         In the case of Brandon Pettigrew, he appears to be the second coming of Daniel Graham. Hes' a first rate blocking TE, with questionable speed and receiving skills. But, hes' had off the field issues. Last year, he was drinking and got involved in a brawl. When the police came, they didn't arrest him, but told him to leave the scene, and escorted him away. As a officer was leading him away, Pettigrew threw an elbow into the officer's chest, in an attempt to return to the altercation. He was charged with several offenses, including assaulting a police officer...and pled guilty recently to reduced charges.

         Would you want to see the Pats invest a first round pick and millions of dollars in a guy would would do something this stupid?

         That said, there are some good players available at #23. But, you know how BB believes in trying to get the maximum value for each pick. He may not think that any remaining player has a first round grade...which could lead to a trade-down. For example, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys do not own a first round pick, courtesy of Jones' stupid WR Roy Williams trade. Rumor has it that he wants to get into the first round. Perhaps he'll foolishly offer the Pats his 52nd overall pick and a #1 next year for the #23 selection.

         While the Pats value offensive and defensive lineman first, skilled positions second, and LBs and CBs third...their primary needs are to improve their pass-rush, find a replacement for Tedy Bruschi, and the right side of the OL. Who will be available at #23 to meet either of these two needs? English? Eben? Maualuga? Laurinaitis? Cushing? Barwin? Since none of us have access to the Patriots' scouting reports on any of these players...who knows how BB views them? All we can do is make educated guesses.   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If were talking the bottom for Pettigrew. Then blocking TE/STplayer could be all he becomes. I think this is not the case but maybe.

    40 yard times Pettigrew 4.83 and 08' stats REC 42/ YDS 472/TD 0. With a ranking of what most say is 1st rd.

    as opposed to
    ECU's Davon Drew 4.82 /40 time and 08' stats REC 43/ YDS 695/TD 3.
    Who knows where he goes but he not anywhere around the top. As in Casey, Nelson,Cook,Morrah
    Drew's Analysis

    Positives: Good height with long arms, strong biceps and adequate lower body build. Versatile enough to be used outside, in the slot, in motion and on the line. Reliable hands and will catch the ball outside his frame. Good release off the line, and can use hands to shake off linebackers and get into his route. Will set up out routes well, using his long arms to get separation. Quick enough to threaten the seam and open up underneath routes. Fights off arm tackles and gain additional yardage after the catch. Former quarterback who knows when to sit down in zones and works to make himself available. Very willing run and pass blocker, giving good effort.

    I think BB is going for Bear Pascoe for run blockin TE.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ricky1554atl. Show ricky1554atl's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    I think a first round pick for Barwin is too high. But you have to keep the possibility that the Pats could go for this guy. You know Bill loves players who can play different positions.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    There are several CBs that would be able to contribute right off the bat both on defense and on specail teams.  Brandon Pettigrew would be able to contribute some I would think.  Those are some just off the top of my head.  Probably English as well.
    Posted by garytx


    Even though I do agree we might need to bring a CB in (even though I think the two that were drafted last year will develop) the more urgent need is pass rush.  Players do not come in and contribute their first year as a starter.  Lets face it we've had really good luck with RS, VW, JBEG (lol) and JM but at 23 in this year's draft I don't think there's that type of guy unless someone falls out of the top 15.  There are players that can contribute on certain downs and on special teams.


    That's why I'm so high on Barwin, if you are drafting two guys which has the biggest upside and can do the most right out of the gate.  IMO is Barwin.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    If were talking the bottom for Pettigrew. Then blocking TE/STplayer could be all he becomes. I think this is not the case but maybe. 40 yard times Pettigrew 4.83 and 08' stats REC 42/ YDS 472/TD 0. With a ranking of what most say is 1st rd. as opposed to ECU's Davon Drew 4.82 /40 time and 08' stats REC 43/ YDS 695/TD 3. Who knows where he goes but he not anywhere around the top. As in Casey, Nelson,Cook,Morrah Drew's Analysis Positives: Good height with long arms, strong biceps and adequate lower body build. Versatile enough to be used outside, in the slot, in motion and on the line. Reliable hands and will catch the ball outside his frame. Good release off the line, and can use hands to shake off linebackers and get into his route. Will set up out routes well, using his long arms to get separation. Quick enough to threaten the seam and open up underneath routes. Fights off arm tackles and gain additional yardage after the catch. Former quarterback who knows when to sit down in zones and works to make himself available. Very willing run and pass blocker, giving good effort. I think BB is going for Bear Pascoe for run blockin TE.
    Posted by ohyes


         I wouldn't want the Pats to draft Pettigrew at #23 for the reasons given in my previous post. But, with Ben Watson becoming an UFA next season, and the failure of David Thomas to live up to expectations, its' a good idea for the Pats to draft a TE with one of their other picks. 

         Of the remaining TEs, the guy I like is Shawn Nelson. At 6'5", 252 lbs., he'd be a great target for Tom Brady, particularly in the redzone. From what I've read, Nelson ran a 4.58 40, has good hands, and has shown a willingness to block...though he needs work in that area.

         Jared Cook is also a tall, speedy TE. But, he reportedly doesn't like to get his hands dirty when called upon to block.   

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

         I wouldn't want the Pats to draft Pettigrew at #23 for the reasons given in my previous post. But, with Ben Watson becoming an UFA next season, and the failure of David Thomas to live up to expectations, its' a good idea for the Pats to draft a TE with one of their other picks.       Of the remaining TEs, the guy I like is Shawn Nelson. At 6'5", 252 lbs., he'd be a great target for Tom Brady, particularly in the redzone. From what I've read, Nelson ran a 4.58 40, has good hands, and has shown a willingness to block...though he needs work in that area.      Jared Cook is also a tall, speedy TE. But, he reportedly doesn't like to get his hands dirty when called upon to block.   
    Posted by TexasPat3

    I agree with you, a TE is probably 4th on the "to get" list but there are some good ones  in the second, third even fourth round these are the two you mention (I would pick either over Pettigrew, this guy has not gotten millions yet and he already thinks he's above the law. Anyone else thinks he will fall to late 2nd or even 3rd? I do)
    Jared Cook - South Carolina (HT: 6'5" | WT: 242)
    Projection: 2nd Round

    Strengths:
    -just a physical freak, great measurables, ran a 4.50-40 at the combine with a 41" vertical jump
    -looks natural catching the football, has very reliable hands
    -can stretch the defense up the seam
    -is too fast for linebackers and too big for corners
    -has proven he can add weight and strength without losing any speed or explosiveness
    -has the size and frame to be a decent in-line blocker

    Weaknesses:
    -has not had a very consistent career, probably in part to South Carolina's revolving door at quarterback
    -was benched by Spurrier vs. Clemson in 2008 for lack of effort
    -subpar vision, does not utilize running lanes, just follows the play by design
    Shawn Nelson - Southern Miss. (HT: 6'5" | WT: 240)
    Projection: 2nd-3rd Round

    Strengths:
    -above average speed given his frame, also has the body to add more bulk
    -big target, natural pass catcher, can adjust to badly thrown balls
    -uses his speed to stretch the field and gets good overall separation from defenders, his 4.56-40 time at the combine is the second fastest among TEs
    -reliable blocker, good technique, especially in space, really improved in this aspect during his senior season
    -has been consistently productive all four years in college
    -a good runner after the catch, not afraid to make big plays over the middle

    Weaknesses:
    -needs to show better awareness and ability to get open against a zone coverage
    -could get stronger in the upper body to get a better push on defenders when blocking
    -injuries are a minor concern, though he played through one his junior season
    -route running is only average
    -had the potential to really move up the draft boards with a better season and it didn't happen

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Yeah, Cook and Pettigrew are opposite ends of the spectrum. Both have immense talent.

    Nelson is a great compromise.

    Another Te not to miss is James Casey, just down the road from you at Rice. He is a very versatile TE. Has decent blocking skills and excellent hands. Although NE has tended to grab freak athletes like Cook here, he could be interesting to them.

    He was drafted as a baseball player by the Chi Sox. And has played TE, WR, FB, QB and long snapper for Rice.

    There are some decent TEs from the bottom of the first through the top fo the second. I woud include him in the list with Cook, Nelson and Pettigrew.

    I would take Nelson or Cook out of the three. I think a blocking TE, maybe without the excellent hands, like Pettigrew can be had for cheap dollars.

    Nelson is a good compromise, although he is kind of skinny and has some injuries in his past.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

    Yeah, Cook and Pettigrew are opposite ends of the spectrum. Both have immense talent. Nelson is a great compromise. Another Te not to miss is James Casey, just down the road from you at Rice. He is a very versatile TE. Has decent blocking skills and excellent hands. Although NE has tended to grab freak athletes like Cook here, he could be interesting to them. He was drafted as a baseball player by the Chi Sox. And has played TE, WR, FB, QB and long snapper for Rice. 
    Posted by zbellino


         Casey sounds like the second coming of Garrett Mills (Pats 106th overall pick in 2006). No, thanks.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why Connor Barwin is deserving of getting picked 23rd overall

         Casey sounds like the second coming of Garrett Mills (Pats 106th overall pick in 2006). No, thanks.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I don't follow the comparison. But ok.
     
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