Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Some VERY good posts by Bredbru

    [/QUOTE]

    kind to say portfolio1.

    thanks for yours on the subject.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to NYC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     



     Didn't see it, but think it's pretty cool that the NFL is trying to be socially progressive.  

    [/QUOTE]

    The NFL is more than a sports league that makes the owners richer. It is a social force through which the values of American culture are transmitted throughout the world. It is an essential vehicle for communicating equality.

    [/QUOTE]

    a keen observer you nyc (no sarcasm here).

    thanks for sharing!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Excellent post by Agill ... it takes a big person to admit their discomfort is their issue and not someone else's.

    Per points of view, the point of view that gay people, or anyone really, shouldn't be on TV is bigotry. You are entitled to be a bigot, but others are entitled to call a spade a spade. A non bigoted person might not care, they might think its cool, they might cheer for it, but they'd never want to bar someone from TV based on the fact that they might (shock and horror) kiss their significant other. Back when Star Trek had Kirk and Uhura kiss, there were tons of people who thought Roddenberry was shoving it in their face. Its childish. Other people going about their life and ESPN covering a Very newsw event is not shoving it in your face any more than ESPN's 500 cuts to AJ McCarron kissing whatsherface is McCarron shoving his heterosexuality in your face or ESPN doing the same.

    Per "1st Amendment nonsense": The fact is, and this is fact, ESPN showing a gay person on TV in no way infringes on someone‘s right to free speech. Unless you are really soft in the head and completely misunderstand how the first amendment works, you'd know this. You are not guaranteed the right to not see something, or to silence soneone else. Just change the channel if you are so bothered by it. And to be clear YOU aren't being silenced when you change that channel: on the contrary if you had your wish you would be violating ESPN‘s right to speech and Sam's. Negating someone else's 1st amendment rights is not a 1st amendment right. You are otherwise freely able to go complain about it (which many are doing here now), but removing Sam from TV is not a point of view, its an action based on a point of view. You arent entitled to that in the same way you aren't entitled to make black neighbors to move away because you don't want to see them. Case in point, you may not want to hear me call you a bigot, but you cannot stop me from saying it. Respond how you want but MY expression doesn't limit yours. Neither does Sam's, nor does ESPN's.

    Per "showing the kiss", please, AJ McCarron, ring a bell? Forget the other 1000 times ESPN has played affection into celebration, this guy aline has been on the network kissing his GF for 100x the air Sam‘s moment had. You just overlook tgat, or perhaps dont nitice it, because you don‘t want to? 

    Per the question of draft status, Id say it was likely he was drafted where he otherwise might have been. Perhaps he was drafted a bit lower, based on teams not wanting the media attention, or not wanting to upset a homophobic lockerroom. If he hadn't been drafted  I'd have been incredibly suspicious .... in the history of the SEC DPOY award, every single one has been drafted in the 5th or higher and Sam is no worse than half of those prospects. istory 

    [/QUOTE]

    very insightful and intelligent post z. thank you .

    and re:

    ". in the history of the SEC DPOY award, every single one has been drafted in the 5th or higher and Sam is no worse than half of those prospects. istory "

    thanks for more explicitly pointing out what i also suggested. though curious you started with he may have been drafted where he otherwise would have. 

    a pass rusher in a league where pass rushing is premium. and a co def player of the year in the most dominant conference. if he was not known to be gay, i seriously doubt he falls to almost the end of the draft.

    cheers.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mcboyd22. Show mcboyd22's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    ZB - well said!

     

    I hope you can realize that Sam isn't the story ... you are. If that were a straight player with his GF no one would say a thing. The reason they are showing it is because (sadly) in 2014 it still gets the "go back in the closet" reaction. 

    Once that reaction is gone, it won't be a story anymore. 



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    "Shove down our throats" Freudian, no?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    The idea that the NFL has the right to fine a player because of something he thinks (even though is wasn't specific) seems wrong to me.  I am wondering if this wasn't done by either the agent or Sam that didn't have any pre draft filming, but the emotion displayed for ESPN to display each minute or each different segment.  One time was plenty with the tongue and cake .  Wonder if it was fudge cake ??


    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from cellucci. Show cellucci's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    maybe now he can afford braces.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Just reported D Jones was sent to a re education program to get his mind right.  Now that's the way to challenge the 1st amendment .   Sounds a little like a socialist/progressive idea that just take hold so watch out what you say or type because you may be next.  Hope I get a single room when they come..

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Nothing to look at hear.      All the emotion with Sam and his little friend, was for the Ophra cameras that will be on the new sitcom....   What a joke

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to fishers5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just reported D Jones was sent to a re education program to get his mind right.  Now that's the way to challenge the 1st amendment .   Sounds a little like a socialist/progressive idea that just take hold so watch out what you say or type because you may be next.  Hope I get a single room when they come..

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

    [/QUOTE]

    And there is the rub - lol

    The conversation now is way past Satuday ,  but its all of the creepy 're-educational'  karp that reeks of politcal fascism and correctness straight out of the Soviet Union thought police that is repugmant..

    The Miami player has very right to tweet what he did - agree or dont agree. A person has every right not to be forced to accept "behavior" he doesnt agree with. People then can then judge him for it.

    And it doesnt surprise me that the NFL is so politically correct. They wanted to contol speech on the field- even when they already had a rule. They also want to show how they "care", after all they have the whole "safety" issue they are trying to market.

    At the same time the NFL does have an interest in how the league is perceived- that is okay too. But this is a slippery slope- I dont know what contractual power they have to force a player  into  being "politically correct" and take re-educational training. But maybe they are saying to him he will be tossed out of the league - that sux

    As you noted next - he was filming an Oprah segment in previous months and the day of the draft
    . makes me believe that his being drafted a definite set up - especially as Fischer told us how he decided. Thats okay too. But it also shows that Sam is more than "i just want to play football". We will see how the RAms handle his making or not making the team.  We will see what he does. But there is also a great probability that the gay mafia (coined by Bill Maher) may get into the act

    So its not Saturday any more, and really never was - cause there isnt one poster here saying that Sam doesnt have a "right" to play, nor should he ever be treated badly, or differently than anybody else. It is a far different issue. And i dont want to be BS'sd either

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxxcrwn. Show xxxcrwn's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Imagine if the Patriots had drafted him. Then imagine the NFL telling BB about the Oprah circus. You know that BB would have cut him right after he hung up the phone. Let it be the circus of others. This is a football team.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to xxxcrwn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Imagine if the Patriots had drafted him. Then imagine the NFL telling BB about the Oprah circus. You know that BB would have cut him right after he hung up the phone. Let it be the circus of others. This is a football team.

    [/QUOTE]

    He only got signed because the Oprah deal was in place long before the draft.  These things don't materialize over night.  This is a cross promotional  moment for the NFL to access it's most disenfranchised fans.  Don't want to sound cynical but that's how it is, if he wasn't gay he would be looking for a real job right now with that horrid combine and lack luster pro day.

    Sorry I said I wouldn't comment on this non football story again...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    FWIW I thought the embrace between Michael Sam and his little hottie bf was long and tediously solemn. Being drafted by an NFL team is supposed to be a joyful occasion, right?

    I think Ive seen happier embraces at prayer vigils for a Death Row inmate about to get the chair. Geesh

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:


    Yeah, just like when the media shoved Jackie Robinson's personal life down everyone's throat. Senseless!





    Doesnt Micheal Sam need to earn a roster spot first before you start omparing him to Jackie Robinson?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, just like when the media shoved Jackie Robinson's personal life down everyone's throat. Senseless!

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesnt Micheal Sam need to earn a roster spot first before you start omparing him to Jackie Robinson?

    [/QUOTE]

    Comparing the plight of gays to the plight of black people is quite a bit over-the-top anyway.  Gay persecution didn't/doesn't exist anywhere near what it did for black people.  It's not even in the same universe.  Where do I begin?  Blacks were enslaved, skinned, whipped, raped, couldn't vote, couldn't sit in the front of the bus, couldn't drink from the same water fountain, put in separate schools.....  Seriously, persecution of gays exists but is pretty damned mild compared to that.  Sam is part of an historic moment, but not one anywhere near as monumental as Jackie.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    I tend to agree with you. Especially now

    Coming out in gay-friendly 2014 America = borderline BFD moment. To me it is anyway. This is not Jackie Robinson redux

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Welker47. Show Brady2Welker47's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Couldnt agree more

    Since when can't people express how they feel? Setting a bad precedent! 

    In response to fishers5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just reported D Jones was sent to a re education program to get his mind right.  Now that's the way to challenge the 1st amendment .   Sounds a little like a socialist/progressive idea that just take hold so watch out what you say or type because you may be next.  Hope I get a single room when they come..

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

    [/QUOTE]


    Brady2Welker47

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to xxxcrwn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Imagine if the Patriots had drafted him. Then imagine the NFL telling BB about the Oprah circus. You know that BB would have cut him right after he hung up the phone. Let it be the circus of others. This is a football team.

    [/QUOTE]

    He only got signed because the Oprah deal was in place long before the draft.  These things don't materialize over night.  This is a cross promotional  moment for the NFL to access it's most disenfranchised fans.  Don't want to sound cynical but that's how it is, if he wasn't gay he would be looking for a real job right now with that horrid combine and lack luster pro day.

    Sorry I said I wouldn't comment on this non football story again...

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly. Which meant Sam was NEVER coming here whatsoever. I would actually add that anyone critical of Same behind their bigotry, should really have held their criticism back with Sam's POOR decision to do this Oprah thing.

    If Sam really was just another prospect, then he wouldn't be doing this Oprah thing. VERY poor choice and I blame his agent as well.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I tend to agree with you. Especially now

    Coming out in gay-friendly 2014 America = borderline BFD moment. To me it is anyway. This is not Jackie Robinson redux

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it's Jackie Robinson.  It's discrimination or society's shackles on a minority group. It's the exact same thing, which is why black right wingers always crack me up with their religious rhetoric as to why gays don't deserve equal rights.

    The height of hypocrisy.

    The day skin color or sexual orientation don't matter, don't need a report attached to it, is the day our country is better off.

    Hopefully, this Sam thing paves the way for that just like Robinson's emergence into MLB did in the mid 1940s.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    I'm all for ending prejudice based on sexual orientation. If the spotlight shining on Michael Sam right now helps to effect positive change in that area, great. I support it

    But to make a lasting cultural impact like Jackie Robinson did, Sam has got to make the team first, doesnt he? Or is just being high profile low round draft pick, who hasnt done anything yet except out himself, enough to resonate with America nowdays?

    He doesnt have to win RotY (like Jackie) or win MVP (like Jackie) or be an all time great (like Jackie) or end up in the Hall of Fame (like Jackie), but he has at least got to make final cut, right?

    Until then, Michael Sam isnt even the Willie O'ree of gay football players yet. Nevermind the Jackie Robinson

    Good luck to him though. I was rooting for him until Oprah showed up. Now I'm ambivalent

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I tend to agree with you. Especially now

    Coming out in gay-friendly 2014 America = borderline BFD moment. To me it is anyway. This is not Jackie Robinson redux

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it's Jackie Robinson.  It's discrimination or society's shackles on a minority group. It's the exact same thing, which is why black right wingers always crack me up with their religious rhetoric as to why gays don't deserve equal rights.

    The height of hypocrisy.

    The day skin color or sexual orientation don't matter, don't need a report attached to it, is the day our country is better off.

    Hopefully, this Sam thing paves the way for that just like Robinson's emergence into MLB did in the mid 1940s.

    [/QUOTE]
    No, it's not the same.  Is it discrimination?  Yes it is.  Is it of the same magnitude that black people endured?  Not even close.  Not to mention all of the other horrific acts besides discrimination.  If in your eyes they are the same then you probably think any mass shooting is equivalent to the Holocaust.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to carawaydj's comment:


    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I tend to agree with you. Especially now

    Coming out in gay-friendly 2014 America = borderline BFD moment. To me it is anyway. This is not Jackie Robinson redux




    Of course it's Jackie Robinson.  It's discrimination or society's shackles on a minority group. It's the exact same thing, which is why black right wingers always crack me up with their religious rhetoric as to why gays don't deserve equal rights.


    The height of hypocrisy.


    The day skin color or sexual orientation don't matter, don't need a report attached to it, is the day our country is better off.


    Hopefully, this Sam thing paves the way for that just like Robinson's emergence into MLB did in the mid 1940s.


    [/QUOTE]
    No, it's not the same.  Is it discrimination?  Yes it is.  Is it of the same magnitude that black people endured?  Not even close.  Not to mention all of the other horrific acts besides discrimination.  If in your eyes they are the same then you probably think any mass shooting is equivalent to the Holocaust.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.


    [/QUOTE]


    Are you seriously playing semantics between the different ways a group of people can be discriminated against?


    Why?


    Do you have a ranking system?


    When Hitler murdered homosexuals or Jews, why was one group more discriminated against than the other, according to you? Why is one murder worse or less worse than the other?  


    Why is one version of discrimination less offensive than the other?  Care to answer that? Who made the rules that showcase the different severities of such things?  Hmm?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:


    In response to carawaydj's comment:


    [QUOTE]


    In response to DougIrwin's comment:


    Of course it's Jackie Robinson.  It's discrimination or society's shackles on a minority group. It's the exact same thing, which is why black right wingers always crack me up with their religious rhetoric as to why gays don't deserve equal rights.


    The height of hypocrisy.


    The day skin color or sexual orientation don't matter, don't need a report attached to it, is the day our country is better off.


    Hopefully, this Sam thing paves the way for that just like Robinson's emergence into MLB did in the mid 1940s.



    No, it's not the same.  Is it discrimination?  Yes it is.  Is it of the same magnitude that black people endured?  Not even close.  Not to mention all of the other horrific acts besides discrimination.  If in your eyes they are the same then you probably think any mass shooting is equivalent to the Holocaust.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.


    [/QUOTE]


    Are you seriously playing semantics between the different ways a group of people can be discriminated against?


    Why?


    Do you have a ranking system?


    When Hitler murdered homosexuals or Jews, why was one group more discriminated against than the other, according to you? Why is one murder worse or less worse than the other?  


    Why is one version of discrimination less offensive than the other?  Care to answer that? Who made the rules that showcase the different severities of such things?  Hmm?


    [/QUOTE]
    I pretty much despise both the far left and far right and this is one of my reasons.  They see the world as black and white.  Shades of gray do exist.  I didn't say anything earth shattering here.  Yes, humanity does rank both good and bad behavior and has done so for as long as recorded history.  It will always be that way....let's hope.  They have manslaughter which isn't the same as 2nd degree murder which isn't the same as 1st degree murder.  Stealing a candy bar isn't viewed the same as stealing a car.  I guess in your mind they're both theft and should be considered equal.  Some types of theft are misdemeanors and others are felonies.  If the light goes on in your head and you get this read on.....


    Discrimination against gays can't hold a candle to discrimination against black people.  No, I don't have a personal ranking system but all societies do.  Nobody outside of extreme ideologues can seriously argue that the discrimination against gays rises to the same level as discrimination against black people.  And again, it wasn't just discrimination that black people endured.  They were enslaved, shackled, skinned, and subjected to other heinous acts.


    Nonetheless, no ideologue has ever changed his opinion in real life much less over the Internet.  I don't expect you to understand this.  You need to see shades of gray to grasp what I am saying.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to carawaydj's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I tend to agree with you. Especially now

    Coming out in gay-friendly 2014 America = borderline BFD moment. To me it is anyway. This is not Jackie Robinson redux

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it's Jackie Robinson.  It's discrimination or society's shackles on a minority group. It's the exact same thing, which is why black right wingers always crack me up with their religious rhetoric as to why gays don't deserve equal rights.

    The height of hypocrisy.

    The day skin color or sexual orientation don't matter, don't need a report attached to it, is the day our country is better off.

    Hopefully, this Sam thing paves the way for that just like Robinson's emergence into MLB did in the mid 1940s.

    [/QUOTE]
    No, it's not the same.  Is it discrimination?  Yes it is.  Is it of the same magnitude that black people endured?  Not even close.  Not to mention all of the other horrific acts besides discrimination.  If in your eyes they are the same then you probably think any mass shooting is equivalent to the Holocaust.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Forgive poor Rusty. He's an imbecile.

     

    Of course the levels of discrimination aren't the same, and of course that is significant. But some people have agendas and those agendas rule over reason and objectivity.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fatsam72. Show fatsam72's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to carawaydj's comment:


     


    In response to AcheNot's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    In response to zbellino's comment:


     


    [QUOTE]


     


    Yeah, just like when the media shoved Jackie Robinson's personal life down everyone's throat. Senseless!


     



     


    Doesnt Micheal Sam need to earn a roster spot first before you start omparing him to Jackie Robinson?


     


    [/QUOTE]


     


    Comparing the plight of gays to the plight of black people is quite a bit over-the-top anyway.  Gay persecution didn't/doesn't exist anywhere near what it did for black people.  It's not even in the same universe.  Where do I begin?  Blacks were enslaved, skinned, whipped, raped, couldn't vote, couldn't sit in the front of the bus, couldn't drink from the same water fountain, put in separate schools.....  Seriously, persecution of gays exists but is pretty damned mild compared to that.  Sam is part of an historic moment, but not one anywhere near as monumental as Jackie.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.


     


    [/QUOTE]

    way to be amazingly myopic, especially with a signature line like that.  You realize (rhetorical) that gay people have had every trauma you mention above inflicted on them - not just at certain times, and in certain countries - but all the way back through our societal memory, across the entire world?   


    didn't think so.


    very different than Robinson.  still incredibly important.

     
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