Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    I knew this thread would be amusing . . .  but some of you guys are really getting carried away.

     

    Good for Mr. Sam for choosing to get his 15 minutes (for whatever it turns out to be worth), but for the record, Jackie Robinson didn't have to tell anybody he was a black guy.

     

    Not comparable.

     

    Not in any way.

     

    Now you listen here! He's not the Messiah . . .   he's a very naughty boy!



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fatsam72. Show fatsam72's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to p-mike's comment:

    I knew this thread would be amusing . . .  but some of you guys are really getting carried away.

     

    Good for Mr. Sam for choosing to get his 15 minutes (for whatever it turns out to be worth), but for the record, Jackie Robinson didn't have to tell anybody he was a black guy.

     

    Not comparable.

     

    Not in any way.

     

    Now you listen here! He's not the Messiah . . .   he's a very naughty boy!





    pithy. and wrong.  nice 2-fer

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    My goodness, 7 pages of hullabaloo over a guy who will get cut in training camp.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to fatsam72's comment:

    way to be amazingly myopic, especially with a signature line like that.  You realize (rhetorical) that gay people have had every trauma you mention above inflicted on them - not just at certain times, and in certain countries - but all the way back through our societal memory, across the entire world?   

    didn't think so.

    very different than Robinson.  still incredibly important.


    Au contraire, it is not me being myopic, but those who use over-the-top rhetoric.  Those equating Sam to Jackie Robinson might have good intentions.  They are trying to celebrate something I don't deny has historical significance.  What they seem oblivious to is that by doing so using over-the-top comparisons they are also cheapening the accomplishments and historical significance of Jackie and black people in general.  That is the big picture that people aren't thinking about.  I'm not trying to take anything away from Sam.  I'm wondering why everyone is so eager to take away from the historical significance of Jackie?  I know the answer.  People just don't realize that doing so cheapens Jackie's significance.

    Over-the-top rhetoric has become a pet peeve of mine.  America seems to have a love affair with it these days.

    As for gays having the same trauma inflicted upon them as black people.....spare me.  No doubt those crimes have been committed, but not on the same scale.  Not by a long shot.  Maybe it would have in the past except for the fact that gay people can hide in plain sight.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:



    It doesn't cheapen any significance whatsoever.   You just said it yourself: Any sociological breakthrough like this is historical and each reflects a society's imprisonment of sorts, regardless of the length of time or intenstiy level, should be noted as historically important.


    Discrimination is discrimination. End of story. No one's is more important or more significant than another's.


    Frankly, it's embarrassing this even had to happen in 2014. We should be way, way past this as a society and country in general, just like we should have been way past in 1947 with African-Americans playing in MLB or just have basic rights acknowledged like the rest of white America, and in this case with Sam and other homosexuals who have wrongly been discriminated against, with hetero-America. It's all the same.


    The parallels are the exact same.


    A minority group has been and continues to be in some cases, discriminated against.


    Very, very clear.


    Go tell Matthew Shepherd he "hid in plain sight". How ignorant.



    I'll assume that you are gay? If so, perhaps your personal bias isn't allowing you to grasp what I'm saying.  I'll excuse you for thinking this is equivalent to Jackie Robinson.  Note that I never said it wasn't an historical moment, only that it isn't as big as Jackie's.  I think 95% of Americans would agree.  I can live with 5% disagreeing with me.


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Jackie was before my time, but I do remember seeing him just before he died

    He was sort of an angry man IMO, I remember reading about all of the daily abuse ,

    he took, and the word abuse is putting it in the sweetest of terms.and that was thousands of people yelling at him every day "at work" Jackie wasn't treated any worse than a slave, but the mental painsomething beyond my comprehension

    i remember feeling really sad as I watched him on the TV., a picture I have never forgotten

    From Slavery to Jim Crow I think there were millions more blacks affected than gays.  gays stayed quiet, like Rock Hudson and many more , IMO they must have  had internal pain or fear. but in terms of numbers I don't think it compared to blacks

    bTW, it was black vote who swung to stop gay marriage in CA. I don't think they believe it to be the same. 

    in the end there will always be anti black, anti gay , anti Semites and on and on. what this thread asked was why eson shoved it down our throats.?I don't know, but they had an agenda, ok then turn it off, I had turned espn on coz I don't like most there, and many of the talking heads feel they must self aggrandize themselves about their social superiority. they forget they are only sports writers.

    But what  I resent the most is to be manipulated by eson, the nfl,  oprah and now maybe even Sam himself, it was a notable story, nflnet mentioned it from time to time, ok good. But to me Espn paid to much time for a 7th rounder. I mean we have had gay congressmen, gay movie stars, gay rock stars and on and on. It had been talked about adnauseum.  I would have picked all of the pats udfas before Sam. Purely on ability. To me a footnote not a story

    All just IMO, 

    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    Nope, but my sister is, her wife and some friends are.  I refuse to be a hypocrite too ignoring all men are created equal and what that principle truly meant.

    It was bad enough with slavery and all of the political targeting of minority groups then or now.

    To play semantics and rank which discrimination is superior to another is ridiculous.  Discrimination based from bigotry is discrimination based from bigotry.


    Ranking degrees of success, bad behavior, etc. is not semantics.  It's fundamental to a civilized society.  Imagine a society where all crime of the same type was punished equally regardless of "ranking".  Like it or not, there are degrees to discrimination much like there are degrees to everything else both good and bad.  If that is ridiculous, then the world around you is ridiculous.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    How are you quantifying the degrees in this case?  A black man or woman being lynched, imprisoned wrongly or discriminated against in some way is more offensive to you than if the person was white and homosexual, similarly victimized?

    Why is that?

     

    You are putting words in my mouth.  Nothing I have said can lead you to conclude that I am more offended if a black person is lynched than I am a homosexual person.  I am referring to the sheer magnitude or extent that all those things occurred for black people.  The persecution and discrimination of black people existed on a scale that dwarfs the discrimination of gays.  Are you going to make me define scale?  Have we ever denied gay people a vote?  Have we ever put them in separate schools?  Did we ever make them sit in the back of the bus?  Did we ever post signs telling them to drink from separate water fountains?  Did we ever enslave them?

    As for Sam specifically, I agree with what someone else above wrote.  There are so many prominent openly gay people in America that it's almost a non-event now.  He isn't even the first openly gay professional athlete.  The current state of discrimination against gays pales in comparison to the amount of discrimination that existed against black people in 1947.  Sam will probably hear a few slurs from the stands if he makes the team.  Jackie heard thousands.

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    Yeah, just like when the media shoved Jackie Robinson's personal life down everyone's throat. Senseless!




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    Youre comparing this guy to Jackie Robinson? Really? You've got to be kidding. Not even close to the same thing and you know it. What this guy may or may not even go through is NOTHING compared to what they did to Jackie, and what he had to overcome. This guy could have chosen to keep his personal life to himself, Jackie could hardly do that with his skin now could he? Jackie was also one of the best of his time, this guy will spend as much time riding the bench as playing. Please stop.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    My goodness, 7 pages of hullabaloo over a guy who will get cut in training camp.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Exactly. And when he does, these same sycophants from ESPN (a subsidiary of ABC) will be yelling that "it was because he was gay", no matter the real reason. Stephen A. Smith has already said as much on the air about it being the reason he fell so far in the draft, and attempted to shame all the NFL teams that didn't pick him. Typical ABC leftist propaganda.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Colosoxman. Show Colosoxman's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

     

     

    Brady2Welker47

     

    Why couldn't they just focus on the player, his ability, game film and collegiate accomplishments? I could care less about his personal srxual preference! But ESPN chose to make it about that instead of Sam the player...



    Nobody shoved anything down my throat I did not watch quit playing a victim

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Am glad u shared that Rus

    This issue is much more personal to you. And it would to me too if I were in your place. I only have one extended family member who I hardly know. but you do know now that someone you clash swords with here, has also been directly affected?

    on an individual by individual basis there is no difference in when in someone's personal hell that someone may go  thru from external or internal forces. The ideal is to eliminate the former and to help defuse the latter. and unfortunately it will not ever happen here on earth. you seem to think it will, and by 2014 lol .   why even Christ had his moment of doubt

    I know that isn't your cup of tea, but it is mine.

    My whole point here is that maybe you should be just a little happy. As I wrote before, no one here has said that gays don't have rights, or that they shouldn't receive what they have earned, or should  be mistreated in any way.

    At the same time we cannot expect others to rejoice and celebrate something that they do not accept. we all have our prejudices, don't we ? No one is ever completely accepted By those on the outside. And you cannot expect them to

    As I get older, I wonder why people put so much stock into what other people think. (Clearly understand when a person has personal power over another) I ask why would anyone give that sort of power to another. I cannot imagine that you do and I bet your sister doesn't either

    .

    End Of Sermon -  lol

    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    In response to carawaydj's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

     

     

     

     

    It doesn't cheapen any significance whatsoever.   You just said it yourself: Any sociological breakthrough like this is historical and each reflects a society's imprisonment of sorts, regardless of the length of time or intenstiy level, should be noted as historically important.

     

    Discrimination is discrimination. End of story. No one's is more important or more significant than another's.

     

    Frankly, it's embarrassing this even had to happen in 2014. We should be way, way past this as a society and country in general, just like we should have been way past in 1947 with African-Americans playing in MLB or just have basic rights acknowledged like the rest of white America, and in this case with Sam and other homosexuals who have wrongly been discriminated against, with hetero-America. It's all the same.

     

    The parallels are the exact same.

     

    A minority group has been and continues to be in some cases, discriminated against.

     

    Very, very clear.

     

    Go tell Matthew Shepherd he "hid in plain sight". How ignorant.

     

     

     

     

    I'll assume that you are gay? If so, perhaps your personal bias isn't allowing you to grasp what I'm saying.  I'll excuse you for thinking this is equivalent to Jackie Robinson.  Note that I never said it wasn't an historical moment, only that it isn't as big as Jackie's.  I think 95% of Americans would agree.  I can live with 5% disagreeing with me.

     

    This is what being level-headed sounds like.



    Nope, but my sister is, her wife and some friends are.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    ______________________________________________________

    Question: How can you tell when Rusty's lying?

    Answer: He typed something.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    Funniest thing is........

    Rusty ruthlessly slams and insults people based on their age, their job, their income, their education, where they shop etc. etc. etc......

     

    But defends gays to the death.

     

    Figure it out. 

     

     

    ______________________________________________________

    Question: How can you tell when Rusty's lying?

    Answer: He typed something.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Funniest thing is........


    Rusty ruthlessly slams and insults people based on their age, their job, their income, their education, where they shop etc. etc. etc......


     


    But defends gays to the death.


     


    Figure it out. 


     





    Nothing to figure out, we have known this about Rusty for a long while now. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    They threw baseballs at robinsons head, cleated him and other things just to name a few with the intent of hurting him. They can't even tweet OMG with out being "re educated". Do you thing goodell will let them cheap shot Sam ?  The refs won't allow it, a little different what robinsons umps did. 

     

     

    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back hurt?

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fatsam72. Show fatsam72's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    You know what folks?  It's a hugely important breakthrough. Just like Jackie's was. Yes, Jackie faced a lot more overt hostility, but you're delusional if you think this isn't every bit as important a stepping stone for a society.

    In fact, all the bluster and equivocation about how "it's ridiculous to compare it to Jackie" just sounds to me like, "well of course blacks and white can't mingle socially. If God had wanted that, he wouldn't have made us different."

    Like Rusty, my sister is gay, and it's a long, hellish and frightening struggle for most gay people to come to terms with who they are, then tell their friends, then their family, then the world.  What Sam has done is so, so so important for all those kids coming up now who are wondering what the he11 is wrong with them.  Who knows how many lives it will save.  And if you don't see that, there's nothing I can say to you - which is ok.

    I'll say this: I've had my issues with Rusty, and have told him so.  In fact, I think he needs professional intervention to deal with his disappointment in Brady. :)  But I completely understand him on this issue - and to bust his ba11s about being gay for doing so?  Well, that's why the Sam issue is...an issue.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Welker47. Show Brady2Welker47's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to Colosoxman's comment:

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

     Hey J O I was watching NFL draft...not some reality show! I have friends that are gay...no issues with that ...I didn't think the cake eating was appropriate for TV...male female not appropriate .. ...my opinion I'm entitled to it...so F Off

     

    Brady2Welker47

     

    Why couldn't they just focus on the player, his ability, game film and collegiate accomplishments? I could care less about his personal srxual preference! But ESPN chose to make it about that instead of Sam the player...



    Nobody shoved anything down my throat I did not watch quit playing a victim

     




    Brady2Welker47

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Colosoxman. Show Colosoxman's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

    In response to Colosoxman's comment:

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

     Hey J O I was watching NFL draft...not some reality show! I have friends that are gay...no issues with that ...I didn't think the cake eating was appropriate for TV...male female not appropriate .. ...my opinion I'm entitled to it...so F Off

     

    Brady2Welker47

     

    Why couldn't they just focus on the player, his ability, game film and collegiate accomplishments? I could care less about his personal srxual preference! But ESPN chose to make it about that instead of Sam the player...



    Nobody shoved anything down my throat I did not watch quit playing a victim

     




    Brady2Welker47

     



    Again no one forced you to watch. I didnt see day three so they didnt shove anything down my throat maybe you are used to taking things down your   throat not me

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Why did ESPN have to shove personal Sam moment down our throats?

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

    Am glad u shared that Rus

    This issue is much more personal to you. And it would to me too if I were in your place. I only have one extended family member who I hardly know. but you do know now that someone you clash swords with here, has also been directly affected?

    on an individual by individual basis there is no difference in when in someone's personal hell that someone may go  thru from external or internal forces. The ideal is to eliminate the former and to help defuse the latter. and unfortunately it will not ever happen here on earth. you seem to think it will, and by 2014 lol .   why even Christ had his moment of doubt

    I know that isn't your cup of tea, but it is mine.

    My whole point here is that maybe you should be just a little happy. As I wrote before, no one here has said that gays don't have rights, or that they shouldn't receive what they have earned, or should  be mistreated in any way.

    At the same time we cannot expect others to rejoice and celebrate something that they do not accept. we all have our prejudices, don't we ? No one is ever completely accepted By those on the outside. And you cannot expect them to

    As I get older, I wonder why people put so much stock into what other people think. (Clearly understand when a person has personal power over another) I ask why would anyone give that sort of power to another. I cannot imagine that you do and I bet your sister doesn't either

    .

    End Of Sermon -  lol

    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land



    Who?   If i have clashed with someone who is gay, it is not for that.  

    It is delusional to pretend even the blocking of gays to.marry is somehow not discrimination through law.

    It is.




    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

    so good , I think we agree that no one here is trying to harm a gay just because they are gay, isn't that a good thing? Absolutely

    The marriage issue is a whole different conversation that really hasn't been discussed in this thread.You obviously have a dog in this fight. And very good for you to take what you view as clearly an open and shut case.

    My problem with all this is judges making this decision. Just like Roe v Wade made abortion a mess as there was already a trend towards fixing this in a less antagonistic and decisive way. I have never considered marriage a USA constitutional issue.Say what you will but marriage is a word of religious origin. and that origin is man and women. the State recognized the institution in law.

    In the beginning of gay civil rights, civil unions were to assuage this issue. IMO this effort was sabotaged so that civil unions weren't the same. and they could change the definition of the word

    If a church wanted to recognize a gay couple as married, like the episcopal church, that is in their purview, but don't ever expect the Catholic Church or othersto join in. IMO the gay movement is trying to change the definition, By changing the definition they are demanding acceptance and some are demanding that one must not only accept but celebrate it. Whereas if they had taken and made a truly equal civil union they would have had all the legal rights they should have.

    So there would be a distinction with a marginal perceptible difference. and before you say that is discrimination, the laws all the time discriminate. for example, why shouldn't each person pay the exact same dollars in taxes? ok that is the government. but I, you and every one here does too

    But I could go either way on this issue, haven't put a lot of thought. But you know what peas me off? The gay mafia (thank you Bill Mahyer) When they forced out the founder of Mozilla as CEO cause he gave a thousand bucks to a political organization 6 years earlier, , did not implement in business one anti gay policy, AND it was the exact position of Obama at that time. why didn't they demand his resignation? at that time I throw up my arms and want to say the hell with them. Tolerance is only tolerance if you agree with them I guess.

    all is just IMO

     
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