Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxfan33928. Show soxfan33928's posts

    Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    Can anyone explain this to me?  He is a defensive wiz, as evidenced by his work in Green Bay.  We had him and we let him slip away.  You can't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if he was given the autonomy to run the D and if he was compensated fairly.  The Pats need to wake up and realize that they can't keep relying on unproven coaches to make things work.  This goes back to my comments previously regarding the "brain drain" happening in Foxboro-it is killing us.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rebels1520. Show rebels1520's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    it helps having charles woodson at corner and linebackers with speed

    and our defense under him last year was even worse than this year
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPKilla2009. Show MVPKilla2009's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    I dont like Dean Pees but he has been the DC for 3 or 4 years now so to say he has no experience is not correct.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    Dom Capers would have implemented his own system.  It's unlikely he would have wanted to simply take over BB's system.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    Soxfan, agreed he'd be a lot better than Pees but I think he and BB would end up butting heads.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    To soxfan and ALL:

    True this...  This year alone, We lost our Offensive Coordinator in Josh McDaniels, Our VP of Player Development/Personell/Scouting/and a million other things in Scott Pioli, Along with Dom Capers and Special Team's Coach for a decade, Brad Seely.  Who's even mentioning Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss, and Mangini and SEVERAL other less noteables...  And honestly, Soon expect other standouts to take flight, Like LB Coach Matt Particia (heck, he might have already left?), WR Coach Bill O'Brien, and I'm shocked we still have O-Line/assistant HC Dante Scarnechia...

    ~Like ALL things, These people Go on to Bigger Things...  There's only so many keynote Positions on ANY Team.  And Dom Capers was a 2 Time NFL Head Coach...I mean simply giving him The Secondary and naming him Special Assistant, ain't gonna quench for long, Someone that has had that Coaching power and success in the past.  Unfortunately though for The Patriots in all, IF a McDonald's assistant chef got placed in one of these vacancies, and We made the playoffs that year, The Detroit Lion's would be targeting him as their next Defensive Coordinator, or Va Tech as their next Head Coach... 

    Problem though, Is not only this mass exodus of ALL person's involved in The Patriot's and Belichick's Legacy.  I don't kjnow HOW Belichick himself could be so blind as to see He NEEDS more help, NEEDS to hire more people.  Simply look it up:  In the past, There was Assistant Offensive Line Coaches, Inside Linebacker AND Outside Linebacker Coaches, Assistant Coaches and Special Assistants to whom or what-ever... I mean Do We even HAVE another VP of Player Development/Scouting/Personell after Pioli Left?  What about a freakin' Offensive Coordinator this year?  Or is it Belichick and Dante Scarnechia who is ALSO The Assistant Coach AND The Offensive Line Coach?  I mean, That's just ridiculous...  Here, I am certainly NOT saying There are more qualified people, BUT simply that There are vaster numbers of people in charge of the delegation and management of single 7-Eleven Convenience Store, than this NFL Dynasty...

    Thoughts ANYONE?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME. Show NEGAME's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]To soxfan and ALL : True this...  This year alone, We lost our Offensive Coordinator in Josh McDaniels , Our VP of Player Development/Personell/Scouting/and a million other things in Scott Pioli , Along with Dom Capers and Special Team's Coach for a decade, Brad Seely .  Who's even mentioning Romeo Crennel , Charlie Weiss , and Mangini and SEVERAL other less noteables...  And honestly, Soon expect other standouts to take flight, Like LB Coach Matt Particia (heck, he might have already left?), WR Coach Bill O'Brien, and I'm shocked we still have O-Line/assistant HC Dante Scarnechia... ~Like ALL things, These people Go on to Bigger Things...  There's only so many keynote Positions on ANY Team.  And Dom Capers was a 2 Time NFL Head Coach...I mean simply giving him The Secondary and naming him Special Assistant, ain't gonna quench for long, Someone that has had that Coaching power and success in the past.  Unfortunately though for The Patriots in all, IF a McDonald's assistant chef got placed in one of these vacancies, and We made the playoffs that year, The Detroit Lion's would be targeting him as their next Defensive Coordinator, or Va Tech as their next Head Coach...  Problem though, Is not only this mass exodus of ALL person's involved in The Patriot's and Belichick's Legacy.  I don't kjnow HOW Belichick himself could be so blind as to see He NEEDS more help, NEEDS to hire more people.  Simply look it up:  In the past, There was Assistant Offensive Line Coaches, Inside Linebacker AND Outside Linebacker Coaches, Assistant Coaches and Special Assistants to whom or what-ever... I mean Do We even HAVE another VP of Player Development/Scouting/Personell after Pioli Left?  What about a freakin' Offensive Coordinator this year?  Or is it Belichick and Dante Scarnechia who is ALSO The Assistant Coach AND The Offensive Line Coach?  I mean, That's just ridiculous...  Here, I am certainly NOT saying There are more qualified people, BUT simply that There are vaster numbers of people in charge of the delegation and management of single 7-Eleven Convenience Store, than this NFL Dynasty... Thoughts ANYONE ?
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]


    No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]

    Because ALL Football Managers/GMs and Owners realize that The Indianapolis Colts win (but not Superbowls)-through Peyton Mannings arm AND Bill Polian's League Influence...  You don't think systematic Coaching "Genius" in really, ANY of their schematics or off-season moves or ANYthing. 

    NEGAME...This, and because It's a well-known world-wide fact That people smell like cows after extended stays in Indy (so they get to keep their own And noone else wants them...bonus!)...  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]

    If we take Kraft at his word, he believes in the following two things quite strongly:

    1. Promote from within.  He has said that and also said this is one of the things he likes about BB; he feels the same way.

    2. You should not hold anyone back from a better opportunity.  He has also said this.  In other words, he supports guys moving on to bigger and better things.

    Those two beliefs may not make us fans too happy, but I think a lot of workers in a lot of places wish their boss felt the same way...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME. Show NEGAME's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : Because ALL Football Managers/GMs and Owners realize that The Indianapolis Colts win (but not Superbowls)-through Peyton Mannings arm AND Bill Polian's League Influence...  You don't think systematic Coaching "Genius" in really, ANY of their schematics or off-season moves or ANYthing.  NEGAME... This , and because It's a well-known world-wide fact That people smell like cows after extended stays in Indy (so they get to keep their own And noone else wants them...bonus!)...  
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Geez that was a great reply i thought you were the great wizard and knew everything!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : Geez that was a great reply i thought you were the great wizard and knew everything!
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]

    LOL...the archetype of Lazarus dilutes himself in your prescence alone. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]
    Ms Negame,

    My opinion of this is that Belichick is regarded as the smartest HC in the NFL.  Why not hire the coordinators of his successful teams as HC's?

    Where the colts are concerned, Tom Moore is too old to be HC and I don't think Meeks is considered HC material.  In fact, the colts let him go. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : Ms Negame, My opinion of this is that Belichick is regarded as the smartest HC in the NFL.  Why not hire the coordinators of his successful teams as HC's? Where the colts are concerned, Tom Moore is too old to be HC and I don't think Meeks is considered HC material.  In fact, the colts let him go. 
    Posted by underdoggg[/QUOTE]

    Maybe Weis will come back and well see if this actually does give Peyton the advantage?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]

    First, NEGAME, let me just say you have to be the prettiest sports fan I know not named me. I'm a boy, BTW, but I'm just so damn pretty.

    Secondly, Peyton Manning doesn't like change. Tom Moore has been his OC since he was a fresh faced rookie out of Tenn. This year, Moore left to keep his NFL pension, but Peyton started crying and the league had to step in to get Tommy his job back. Don't listen to Underdogg(g).

    On offense, the Colts tend to maintain a level of homeostasis because they don't have much to adjust from.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    I dont like Dean Pees but he has been the DC for 3 or 4 years now so to say he has no experience is not correct.
    Posted by MVPKilla2009
       Well why don't we say he has gained zero from the experience he does have !! Everygame...   I mean, every game you see Bellicheck over there with the defense after a series with Peese no where in sight !!  He isn't even in on the game-time adjustments !! Most knowledgble fans know this from the play of his defense since he's been there so I won't elaborate.....If the Patriots are to go foward
    they have to lose the address of the two anchors called Peese and Obrien !!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : If we take Kraft at his word, he believes in the following two things quite strongly: 1. Promote from within.  He has said that and also said this is one of the things he likes about BB; he feels the same way. 2. You should not hold anyone back from a better opportunity.  He has also said this.  In other words, he supports guys moving on to bigger and better things. Those two beliefs may not make us fans too happy, but I think a lot of workers in a lot of places wish their boss felt the same way...
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]   Kraft is thinking cost if he's thinking at all......Two words jump out at you at this level when choosing coordinators knowledge and experience.......Each year the game strategies change  ,hell there are changes at half time during a single game !! I think Capers assumed  the defense was going to be his to adjust  once he became familiar with the existing defense .....Bellicheck was not willing to concede any major changes....which is why he kept  his maniquin Peese as the 
    Coordinator and Capers as the secondary coach while learning the defense in place...After the season was over Capers said he wanted to make wholesale changes in the defensive strategy..... Bellicheck disagreed and kept his maniquin....Capers went to Green Bay !! The Patriots win Peese !!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : No thoughts, but a question--Why are the Colts able to keep their organization in tact year after year, especially coaches. They brought back 2 coaches after they retired!!  The only one to leave was Meeks, and they are probly glad he did.  Even the players stay.
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]


    Because they know thier role.  The stay in thier lane and continue to have success doing it.  I'm sure they know realistically that they are not going to be a HC somewhere else and they probably feel that they have a good thing going on in Indy.


    NE guys want a shot.  They believe they can have the same success that BB has had.  At least that what I think.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from thetrinity12. Show thetrinity12's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    First of all, Capers could not have possibly made an impact as the secondary coach of the most inept secondary we've had in recent memory. I thought for sure that he was brought in to be DC when we gave Pees the boot. In all likelihood, he was, but BB didn't like his approach to defense. 

    Talent is helpful, but more so than on offense, the system and the playcalling make the defense. Look at the Eagles and tell me how much talent they have. The answer is that they make a defense work around Trent Cole and Asante Samuel. BB's system is meant to not lose the game. The best defenses today are geared toward winning the game on their own. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? :    Kraft is thinking cost if he's thinking at all......Two words jump out at you at this level when choosing coordinators knowledge and experience.......Each year the game strategies change  ,hell there are changes at half time during a single game !! I think Capers assumed  the defense was going to be his to adjust  once he became familiar with the existing defense .....Bellicheck was not willing to concede any major changes....which is why he kept  his maniquin Peese as the  Coordinator and Capers as the secondary coach while learning the defense in place...After the season was over Capers said he wanted to make wholesale changes in the defensive strategy..... Bellicheck disagreed and kept his maniquin....Capers went to Green Bay !! The Patriots win Peese !!!
    Posted by flip781[/QUOTE]

    So..you are saying that Kraft is not interested in winning - just to contain costs ??
    Where did you get that insight from?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : So..you are saying that Kraft is not interested in winning - just to contain costs ?? Where did you get that insight from?
    Posted by PatFanInBA2[/QUOTE] Why don't you understand the post before making moronic interpretations  about the post   !! What was said was........ there is a need to bring in knowledgible  and experienced Coordinators.......when you do that there is a cost factor...... That cost factor far exceeds the  cost factor of bringing an inexperienced coach up through the ranks !! BEFORE I GO ANY FURTHER .....DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR ??? Since he gave Bellicheck full authority with the franchise why challenge that authority when he let Capers go....... Capers was let go becase he wanted to implement his own attacking defense.......B.B balked because he would lose control of a portion of the teams strategy !! Kraft is interested in winning but will not buck Bellicheck...Also Capers would a cost more than Peese because he brings much more to the table than Peese........now doyou understand ????
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]Can anyone explain this to me?  He is a defensive wiz, as evidenced by his work in Green Bay.  We had him and we let him slip away.  You can't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if he was given the autonomy to run the D and if he was compensated fairly.  The Pats need to wake up and realize that they can't keep relying on unproven coaches to make things work.  This goes back to my comments previously regarding the "brain drain" happening in Foxboro-it is killing us.
    Posted by soxfan33928[/QUOTE]


    You do realise he wanted to move back up the chain of command again right? He was a head coach you know, and D coordinator. There really wasn't a way to keep him.

    Also before you jump on me about replacing Dean with Dom as DC... You know the Pats D is giving up fewer points per game than the Packers right? That's with what could at least be argued as being done with less talent on the D side of the ball than the packers have.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxfan33928. Show soxfan33928's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : You do realise he wanted to move back up the chain of command again right? He was a head coach you know, and D coordinator. There really wasn't a way to keep him. Also before you jump on me about replacing Dean with Dom as DC... You know the Pats D is giving up fewer points per game than the Packers right? That's with what could at least be argued as being done with less talent on the D side of the ball than the packers have.[/QUOTE]

    Alright, so why not promote him to D coordinator then?  Do you honestly think that Pees is a better coordinator than Capers?  The stats mean nothing at this point.  What means more is the recent performance of the D.  They have been over matched a lot lately and teams now realize that the way to attack our D is through the air.  Why bother to run when we can't cover anyone?  Also, according to what you seem to be saying, we need to replace our personnel people since the Packers have more talent.  Did the Pats have more talent than the Rams when they beat them in the SB?  The D is not the only problem.  We need a real RB and a WR who can play opposite Moss to make other teams pay for bracketing Moss and doubling Welker. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : Alright, so why not promote him to D coordinator then?  Do you honestly think that Pees is a better coordinator than Capers?  The stats mean nothing at this point.  What means more is the recent performance of the D.  They have been over matched a lot lately and teams now realize that the way to attack our D is through the air.  Why bother to run when we can't cover anyone?  Also, according to what you seem to be saying, we need to replace our personnel people since the Packers have more talent.  Did the Pats have more talent than the Rams when they beat them in the SB?  The D is not the only problem.  We need a real RB and a WR who can play opposite Moss to make other teams pay for bracketing Moss and doubling Welker. 
    Posted by soxfan33928[/QUOTE]


    Yes that is exactly what I am saying. That Dean is as good or better than Dom. Do the home work and check the stats during both mens tenures as DC's.

    The Pats beat the Rams when the CB's could completely rough up the WR's. It's a passing league right now and a much higher scoring league then it was back then yet the D is still avergaing about the same PPG allowed they have in every season runing BB's system since he came here. Please do your homework.

    ALso during Dean's 4 years as DC the Pats have given up the 3rd least PPG avg of any team in the NFL. Only Steelers and Ravens have avg dfewer in that 4 year time frame and both of those are ONLY LESS than 1/2 a point better.

    In the first 4 years starting from the first superbowl of 2001 the team was a defensive team with its talent heavily loaded on the defensive side of the ball with a game management type of offense.

    As the NFL league has changed with rule chages etc the team has changed with it and not is supposed to have a Offensive priority with its talent and experience on that side of the ball and a better than avergae (game management) defense.

    The problem is the Offense has not been consistent on the road. They have been shutdown in the 2nd halfs of road games. Brady has a 52% complettion rating in the 2nd half of road games. A 60 Passer rating in the 2nd half of all true road games. That's not going to get it done and hasn't.

    It has nothing to do with Dean or a young defense that people did not expect to be the backbone of this team. The D gave the ball back to the offense in INDY and in Miami TWICE. Our offense generated only 1 first down in all those attempts.

    Sorry I can't find anything in any research and you have not given any valid points to warrent removing Dean as DC. Especially not if you are going to say replace him with Dom who D is curently giving up more PPG than Deans D is and deans D is largly just turned over in one year and very young and inexperienced. To me that just shows he's doing even more of a good job considering the circumstances.

    we lost 2 early games Brady was awful in because he was still getting back into it, plus no welker in one game. Only scored 9 points in that one. Then we lost to 2 undefeated teams. Um I belive that mean that NO one else has beaten them either. One team me beat all all over the place and lost by 1 point with :13 left because once again the offense did absolutley NOTHING late in the game. The saints game was a behind whooping, it happens. ...and finally we lost a tough one to a division rival in Miami where we historically play horrible. I think the record is like 2 - 6 in miami since bb has been here, not positive.

    More than happy to entertain your opinion but please bring something concrete to the polite discussion to support your reasoning. The facts simply do not support your opinion on the DC. IMHO.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?

    In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why didn't we keep Dom Capers? : Why don't you understand the post before making moronic interpretations  about the post   !! What was said was........ there is a need to bring in knowledgible  and experienced Coordinators.......when you do that there is a cost factor ...... That cost factor far exceeds the  cost factor of bringing an inexperienced coach up through the ranks !! BEFORE I GO ANY FURTHER .....DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR ??? Since he gave Bellicheck full authority with the franchise why challenge that authority when he let Capers go....... Capers was let go becase he wanted to implement his own attacking defense.......B.B balked because he would lose control of a portion of the teams strategy !! Kraft is interested in winning but will not buck Bellicheck...Also Capers would a cost more than Peese because he brings much more to the table than Peese........now doyou understand ????
    Posted by flip781[/QUOTE]

    lol - so this is what you meant by "Kraft is thinking cost if he's thinking at all"  wow !!!

    Perhaps it would be better if you think a little before posting !!

     
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