Why draft anger is justified

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsiefan. Show pumpsiefan's posts

    Why draft anger is justified

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.




         Actually, I'm okay with BB's trade-downs. He usually gets the better of those...and does a great job of stock-piling draft picks. My criticisms lie in who he chooses to select with those picks. Last year, he wasted the 48th overall pick on Tavon Wilson. This year, he compounds the mistake, by overdrafting Harmon, a guy with a 7th round value, with the 91st overall pick.

         The truth is that the Pats are more than just one player away from winning a SB. Thus, I applauded the decision to trade the 29th overall pick for the 52nd, 83rd, 102nd, and 217 (I think) overall choices. This trade gave the Pats a better chance of finding a pass rusher, a WR, and to get secondary help...than taking a chance on gaining one very good, but raw prospect, like WR Corderelle Patterson. 

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    Football smarts, role players , and  a tight run unit, great on field adjustments and coachable players win the regular season.

    The talented,  smashmouth team with an athletic defense seems to be the winning playoff formula lately..to which the PAts have been the victims 5-6 times in recent playoff memory.

    But this draft is not bad, the secondary guys from rutgers are farily big guys, Collins is a great athelete and the wides seem like they can really fight for the ball and with the multiple TE targets the PAts already have will create a mismatch somewhere on the field.

    Really no one knows who the draft winners and losers are for years, and certainly not now, think the PAts draft and other signings are geared towards impact NEXT season and  playoff success. I am hopefull.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.



    You sound like me. I am the one who usually writes this and gets called out by Rusty. He's easy to slap down however. He also loses bets and then disappears.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.




    The defensive back are typically very short, quicker (perhaps), but we have a difficult time with tall and/or physical WRs.


    Any team would be worse w/o Brady, so that goes w/o saying. He is on the downside.

     

    Yes, the defense doesn't have many playmakers. Some peeps think that Collins was enough to magically transform the Patriot pass rush, and that Logan (6'0") and the relatively unknown Harmon is enough to bring the pass coverage back into #1-5 in points against and #10-#15 in passing yards against.  Yes, Dobson was prolly a nice pick up in round 2.

    I still  think, defensively, they could have done better by getting 2 DE/OLB to help w/ pass rush.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    There's no formula for winning the Super Bowl, except this: peak in the playoffs. The Ravens were not a "smashmouth" team, whatever that means these days. They're a passing team like the Giants were the year before. They weren't a great football team, nor were the Giants. Both were close to missing the playoffs. They got hot, their QB played great and they got lucky. If Rahim Moore doesn't have a brain cramp, they don't even sniff the Super Bowl.

    There are things to get angry about in life I suppose, but who my favorite NFL team drafts isn't on my list.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to jri37's comment:

    Well in 2 years you can come back and gloat which will be well justified or you can comeback and eat crow.

    How can you crticize a draft before you see how the player is going to be utilized within a certain system?



    true.  Hard to say if any of the draft picks will have an immediate impact (but prolly less likely)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gogogopats. Show gogogopats's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    This was the same reaction when Stevan Ridley was picked in the 3rd round of 2011 draft. Lets wait a few years until we pass judgements around.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.


    One of the best posts I've read in a long time. All your points are right on target. The koolaid drinkers on this board just don't get it. On another note, the Broncos offense is going to be a beast in 2013. With the PATS inept pass rush, Gomer is going to have all day to target Welker, Thomas and Decker. Denver will most likely spank the PATS in Foxborough this year just like the 49er's did last year.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    I know the word "troll" gets thrown around here quite often, but pumpsie is a yankees fan on the red sox forum, I have a hard time believing he's a Patriot fan here... he's a troll in every sense of the word.

    The Patriots had a great draft, we got two impact WR's, maybe the best overall linebacker in the entire draft and a solid corner prospect.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    There's no formula for winning the Super Bowl, except this: peak in the playoffs. The Ravens were not a "smashmouth" team, whatever that means these days. They're a passing team like the Giants were the year before. They weren't a great football team, nor were the Giants. Both were close to missing the playoffs. They got hot, their QB played great and they got lucky. If Rahim Moore doesn't have a brain cramp, they don't even sniff the Super Bowl.

    There are things to get angry about in life I suppose, but who my favorite NFL team drafts isn't on my list.

     

     


    Smashmouth == agressive. The hit on Welker before he dropped the next pass, the hit on Ridely.


    It is a team that can apply enough pressure on the QB to cause errors, give the recievers very little space and when they do catch the ball hit them hard enough so they drop the next one. Punish running backs on each carry and recievers trying to get YAC. Create the sitation where the defense overplays recievers to the point of allowing nothing in the first few seconds of every play at the risk of allowing a big play  but at the same time never allowing the big play to happen because the pressure gets to the QB just about when the coverage breaks down.

    Cannot scheme this type of defense or audible to advantage..the defense does the same thing every play..tremendous pressure until the play is over. If you dont have a mobile QB and run some sort of freelance out of the pocket, recievers that can get separation or take the ball away in a crowd you will be in trouble.


    2007 NYG, 2009 Ravens,2010 jets, 2011 NYG, 2012 Ravens - all pretty close to that mold.

    Now I am going to sound like Rusty..with the lineup NE has had the last few year you can only bring in the jumbo set and pound the ball down their throats from under center ..then only when they commit too many to the middle run..will the passing game work again.

    So in the draft getting the 2 relatively big recievers that can fight for th ball, the second guy beig comapared to Boldin...not a bad thing.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    There's no formula for winning the Super Bowl, except this: peak in the playoffs. The Ravens were not a "smashmouth" team, whatever that means these days. They're a passing team like the Giants were the year before. They weren't a great football team, nor were the Giants. Both were close to missing the playoffs. They got hot, their QB played great and they got lucky. If Rahim Moore doesn't have a brain cramp, they don't even sniff the Super Bowl.

    There are things to get angry about in life I suppose, but who my favorite NFL team drafts isn't on my list.



    Nice post - also helps to have a streak of luck, no crippling injuries, and the blessing of the football gods. It worked for us three three times, and got us back another few times.

    As a fan I love winning. But As long as we get in the playoffs almost every year and get to the SB on a regular basis, I don't think much needs to change in the approach. I don't think I would be as happy being a Giants fan  - sure they have won a couple of SBs, but they have also missed the playoffs a lot more frequently than the Pats - they are basically a .500 team over the last decade.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    Silly post from a Yankee fan....amazed how many fell for it. 

    I didn't like BB's "trade down" strategy in some years but I can't knock it here...

    Unlike past drafts in this one BB really focused on drafting for need, not taking the best player available or loading up on tight ends, etc. 

    Given the picks we had to work with I'm very surprised a real Pats fan (vs a Yankee troll) would be upset by this draft. 

    Also, many of you are getting BB's free agent and player retention moves confused with his recent drafts. His drafts in recent years have been solid, check the results yourself.

    Anyone who is walking around in a rage today because of draft picks that may or may not pan out needs to go for a nice long walk, feed a dog or hug a kid

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.




    I'm guessing BB didn't run things by you first huh? Upset you weren't invited into the War Room?

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from enricob. Show enricob's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    Agree 100%.  Bellibum is great if you are happy with making the playoffs, but if you want to win Super Bowls, a coach who understands the importance of impact players is needed.  The Pats will never win another Super Bowl untill they stop drafting good to average players and actually draft defensive players who have the potential to be real studs!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    Good thread, logical reasoning not blinded by koolaid. Without Brady this team is average - you can't put an average team out there and just expect the best QB in the league to win it for you. Kraft said he is going to spend to the cap this season, and horay for us because it will be the first time that's been done in three years. I'm not thrilled with this draft or our free agent signings. We put too much emphasis on being the smartest team in the league while the dumber ones kick our faces in during the playoffs.

    We had 26 million to spend this off season and we came away with a 34 year old safety, a 31 year old kick returner, a 32 year old defensive lineman and a 28 year old troubled corner. We over payed our nickel corner too. I really thought this off season was going to be different...I was wrong.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Good thread, logical reasoning not blinded by koolaid. Without Brady this team is average - you can't put an average team out there and just expect the best QB in the league to win it for you. Kraft said he is going to spend to the cap this season, and horay for us because it will be the first time that's been done in three years. I'm not thrilled with this draft or our free agent signings. We put too much emphasis on being the smartest team in the league while the dumber ones kick our faces in during the playoffs.

    We had 26 million to spend this off season and we came away with a 34 year old safety, a 31 year old kick returner, a 32 year old defensive lineman and a 28 year old troubled corner. We over payed our nickel corner too. I really thought this off season was going to be different...I was wrong.



    He's not a Patriots fan so the joke is on you.

    Also, it's hilarious how you claim people are "blinded by koolaid" in relation to BB when you have literally sucked Tom Brady's "koolaid" dry.  Hypocrisy at its finest.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    You have to put in perspective. We get hammered by so called experts, mock drafts, media. Nobody knows anything. College and Pros different worlds.
    I've been reading for months, we should Draft Rogers all the way up to the 2nd round, and he wasn't even Drafted by any team for 7 rounds. See what I'm getting at.
    Its fun and good reading, but thats about it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats.


    The explanation is simple. Rusty is an imbecile. Anybody with a brain and a modicum of objectivity can see the team surrounding the HOF QB is MEDIOCRE. That's what has been built since the inherited defensive stars got old. MEDIOCRITY. Buck stops at BB. You draft MEDIOCRE you get a MEDIOCRE team. When Brady is done, we are done.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rkarp1. Show Rkarp1's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Good thread, logical reasoning not blinded by koolaid. Without Brady this team is average - you can't put an average team out there and just expect the best QB in the league to win it for you. Kraft said he is going to spend to the cap this season, and horay for us because it will be the first time that's been done in three years. I'm not thrilled with this draft or our free agent signings. We put too much emphasis on being the smartest team in the league while the dumber ones kick our faces in during the playoffs.

    We had 26 million to spend this off season and we came away with a 34 year old safety, a 31 year old kick returner, a 32 year old defensive lineman and a 28 year old troubled corner. We over payed our nickel corner too. I really thought this off season was going to be different...I was wrong.

     



    Really, they have a young D and by adding that  34 year old very experienced safety to supplement a secondary that has mostly players under 30 seems to be a understandable signing.

     

    They signed the 31 D lineman for 1 year why is this a bad signing? Especially since he seems to still have something left in the tank.

    Troubled corner for 1 year... Instead of looking at the negative how about the troubled corner needs to stay healthy and keep his nose clean in order to cash in... seems like a pretty good insurance policy for the team.

    Can't argue the Arrington signing, i thought that was they over paid also.

    I understand the fan base... we all want a SB win every year but if you look at things realitically this team has gone to the SB and played in the AFC title game in the last 2 years.

    I think you underestimate some of the talent on this roster and will be pleaseantly surprised by the Dobson pick.



    There is nothing wrong with the Wilson and Kelly signings looking at them singularly. But this seems to be the norm every year, with a failure rate of what, 80%? 

    Why not every other year, or every third year, combine the two salaries of each of these types of free agent players and sign some one that is 28 that will be here for a while, be an impact player, and lead this defense for 3-4 years. 

    Off the top of my head, was Rodney the last time the Pats did that? 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    You have to put in perspective. We get hammered by so called experts, mock drafts, media. Nobody knows anything. College and Pros different worlds.
    I've been reading for months, we should Draft Rogers all the way up to the 2nd round, and he wasn't even Drafted by any team for 7 rounds. See what I'm getting at.
    Its fun and good reading, but thats about it.




    this. ^

    Donlt get pissed off by compairing what the Pats do to the so called experts. No one knows how to predict NFL sucess.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Why draft anger is justified

    In response to pumpsiefan's comment:

    The most obnoxious poster on this board, RidetheKing, ridiculed those who are frustrated with the Pats draft citing, of course, the unquestioned genius of BB and the success of the Pats. Why, he asked, would anyone question BB and the Pats given the AFC titles (weakest division in NFL) and SB appearances?

    Maybe because we haven't won a SB in nearly a decade despite having what may be the greatest QB of all time on our side.

    Maybe because of our 5'9" corners who can't cover a down and out with the game on the line. Or our OLine who can't establish a run. Or WR's who can't hang on to the ball.

    No matter how much of a BB groupie you are or how much of a diehard Pats fan you are any rationale football fan can see the Pats are a mediocre team without Brady. The defense is ranked near the bottom and the running game disappears in big games.  When the Pats won their SB's they had difference makers on defense - Law and McGinnest and Bruschi etc. With the exception of Wilfork and occasionally Mayo there are no playmakers on D now.

    I'll leave the stats to others, but clearly playmakers are found at the top of the draft. We lucked out with Gronk and obviously with Brady (what are the odds of a 6th rounder being arguably the greatest QB of all time?). Belichick seems infatuated with trading down and proving his genius is all that is needed to win.

    The 2009 draft killed the Pats this year and will haunt it for a couple of more years. Obviously there are many, myself included, who feel the 2013 draft has the same potential. 

    BB loves to trade down and reach for "Value". Last year he traded up for talent in the first round. Imagine our D without Jones and Hightower but several more Jake Bequettes.

    You may be satistfied with the AFC titles, but a real fan is not. Talent wins.




     

    Why don't you just shut the F()CK up until the guys play and you see what the can do.. who really cares about your opinion of what they did?  Just clap your trap shut and we will see the players when they hit the field, or don't.

     

     
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