Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

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    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    deadahead- you are almost,yes almost as bad as babe-You say that BB's legend will be cemented.What legend???-keep in min mind that without Tom Brady there is no BB.

    Brady's days and hopefully BB's days are numbered up there. Brady is getting old and BB's so called legend is too tarnished.

    Babe- Watch your language because I'm watching you!! LOL

    [/QUOTE]

    Stupid argument as you can say the same for every great QB and coach combo. 

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    The second of two posts I made in response to Kaufman's arcticle saying it was already over because Gronk is gone:

     

    Kaufman... KAUFMAN... come in here.   ...  have a seat Kaufman.

    Listen. I've been hearin' about that article of yours. I actually had to read it... listen Kaufman: we need writers that will give their beat a little insight. Just repeating the fact that losing this guy Gronkowski is really bad for the team is not different from writin' "anything is possible with Tom Brady". It's thoughtless. No insight. Get it Kaufman? Our readers aren't so stupid that they need to be reminded that Gronkowski is a good player.  If you want to say it is all over.. that the sky has fallen at least put some thought into it my boy. 

    But frankly Kaufman, I expect more from someone covering Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and friends. It's like you don't know anything more than the players names like some outa town fan or one of those outa town writers who make money bashing good opponents. ... understand what I'm saying Kaufman? .... no names... no names Kaufman.. 

    So listen Kaufman. I expect you to walk out of my office and take a good long look at every one of those 53 players on that roster and a good look at the coaches. And while your at it bone up on some Boston sports history. For cripes sakes Kaufman, just look at the 2001 Pats, the 2004 Sox... you dont even have to go back too many years Kaufman...

    So get it together. I expect you to write something with some real thought. Got it? I'm not TELLING you to believe that Belichick can get this team to play. But you sure better have a good set of reasons to write 'em off. Now go earn your keep Kaufman. ... and Kaufman.... (Kaufman turns back sheepishly in the doorway) ... shut the lights out when you leave tonight. At that hour of the night everyone else will be at home nice and toasty.... 

     

     
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    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, things have changed since earlier in the season as you note. 

    However, gronk's value is much bigger,than a great red zone threat. With him in the lineup, you have a dual threat weapon...great blocker, great pass catcher. You can run or pass in different formations with him. You can only say something similar with Vereen, with his ability to run or lineup wide or in the slot. Our remaining TEs don't off that flexibility to the offense. 

    devastating? We will see this week when we face a good Miami defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, but Mulligan can block well. That's why I was saying in another thread about how McDaniels can improve first half gamecalling is by using Mulligan and Develin as both blockers AND receivers.

    Seriously. I am not asking for heavy targeting, but strategic targeting to show they can do and will do both.

    No binkies from Brady.  Spread it out and diversify.  I think Brady/McDaniels were too Gronk happy vs the Browns.

    Brady was staring him down a lot and they were trying to get him the ball, which obviously you would want to, but Cleveland knows that too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, mulligan and devein have something to contribute As both blockers and catchers, but there is only 1 Gronk. It's like comparing Amendola to Megatron. At least that is the way I view the skill gap. 

    Someone else said it best...defensive coordinators have to gameplan to stop Gronk. That is often done by doubling him...no other patriot pass catcher needs to be gameplanned around. 

    I don't know what your fascination with Brady's binkies is? The most important chemistry on the field is QB to receiver. Gronk runs the right routes, he catches everything. Brady trusts him. Case closed. I am not sure why you don't see the value in this? I get what you are saying about an over reliance, but comfort level and confidence outweigh that to me. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Because he didn't have 1 or 2 binkies when we won SBs so the Ds couldn't pick one gameplan.  They had to be responsible for more.

    YOur comments about trust is huge, too.  Brady NEEDs to trust everyone. I saw him starting to do it more and more, but the healthier Gronk has gotten, I noticed Brady slowly starting get giddy again because Gronk provided a VERY EASY target for a QB.

    Back in the dynasty era, opponents would be forced to waste time figuring out how best to defend us, which really, would never work well if Brady didn't turn it over.  It's easier to have the knowledge and the tools to accomplish the goal than it is to not.  

    Since 2007, the Welker/Moss offense or the Welker/Gronk offense created a binky effect, which meant if a team had the horses and executed to defend and slow down our offense, they could win. Once a blueprint was out, that was it.  

    How many more examples do you need with this? I just think this might help eliminate any potential for the binky effect.

    Why is this so difficult? I can literally name 4 or 5 postseason games since 2007 where this element surfaced.  I think this sort of forces Brady to make sure he's on his toes, where he's shown flaws at times with these great receivers or TEs.

    I saw it on Sunday re-emerging, which is why Brady was bad, the OL only appeared bad and why we couldn't even get into FG range. Cleveland's D had the tools. It's why our offense looked better when Gronk wasn;t out there. It forced more balance and no binky.

    Would I want Gronk? Of course!  But, do I think Brady can be consistent and not fall  into a binky rut, where we can be balanced without Gronk? Yes.

    Now teams have no idea what their gameplan should be.  Cleveland did not know what to do after Gronk went down.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not disagreeing but I think it is really up to the offensive line to determine how far this team goes. TB will play GREAT if they give him better blockling. THis group of RBs will be VERY effective if they get solid blocking. It will come down to whether the line is up to it. I hope the coaches have some means at getting more out of this group. And I hope Canon is available and 100% and can be a solid part of rising to the occasion.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    Bumped

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    Except we would've gone to super bowl 47 with gronk last year

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, things have changed since earlier in the season as you note. 

    However, gronk's value is much bigger,than a great red zone threat. With him in the lineup, you have a dual threat weapon...great blocker, great pass catcher. You can run or pass in different formations with him. You can only say something similar with Vereen, with his ability to run or lineup wide or in the slot. Our remaining TEs don't off that flexibility to the offense. 

    devastating? We will see this week when we face a good Miami defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, but Mulligan can block well. That's why I was saying in another thread about how McDaniels can improve first half gamecalling is by using Mulligan and Develin as both blockers AND receivers.

    Seriously. I am not asking for heavy targeting, but strategic targeting to show they can do and will do both.

    No binkies from Brady.  Spread it out and diversify.  I think Brady/McDaniels were too Gronk happy vs the Browns.

    Brady was staring him down a lot and they were trying to get him the ball, which obviously you would want to, but Cleveland knows that too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, mulligan and devein have something to contribute As both blockers and catchers, but there is only 1 Gronk. It's like comparing Amendola to Megatron. At least that is the way I view the skill gap. 

    Someone else said it best...defensive coordinators have to gameplan to stop Gronk. That is often done by doubling him...no other patriot pass catcher needs to be gameplanned around. 

    I don't know what your fascination with Brady's binkies is? The most important chemistry on the field is QB to receiver. Gronk runs the right routes, he catches everything. Brady trusts him. Case closed. I am not sure why you don't see the value in this? I get what you are saying about an over reliance, but comfort level and confidence outweigh that to me. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course there is only one Gronk.  Please learn to read better. Jesus Christ.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Rusty,


    Please stop taking our Lord's name in vain.

     

    Thank you,

    The decent persons on the board.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    I'm not too worried about Gronk. He has been MIA so much it seems normal. I'm worried about the O-line.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    how do you think the defense right now compares to the defense at the end of last year

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, things have changed since earlier in the season as you note. 

    However, gronk's value is much bigger,than a great red zone threat. With him in the lineup, you have a dual threat weapon...great blocker, great pass catcher. You can run or pass in different formations with him. You can only say something similar with Vereen, with his ability to run or lineup wide or in the slot. Our remaining TEs don't off that flexibility to the offense. 

    devastating? We will see this week when we face a good Miami defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, but Mulligan can block well. That's why I was saying in another thread about how McDaniels can improve first half gamecalling is by using Mulligan and Develin as both blockers AND receivers.

    Seriously. I am not asking for heavy targeting, but strategic targeting to show they can do and will do both.

    No binkies from Brady.  Spread it out and diversify.  I think Brady/McDaniels were too Gronk happy vs the Browns.

    Brady was staring him down a lot and they were trying to get him the ball, which obviously you would want to, but Cleveland knows that too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, mulligan and devein have something to contribute As both blockers and catchers, but there is only 1 Gronk. It's like comparing Amendola to Megatron. At least that is the way I view the skill gap. 

    Someone else said it best...defensive coordinators have to gameplan to stop Gronk. That is often done by doubling him...no other patriot pass catcher needs to be gameplanned around. 

    I don't know what your fascination with Brady's binkies is? The most important chemistry on the field is QB to receiver. Gronk runs the right routes, he catches everything. Brady trusts him. Case closed. I am not sure why you don't see the value in this? I get what you are saying about an over reliance, but comfort level and confidence outweigh that to me. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course there is only one Gronk.  Please learn to read better. Jesus Christ.

    Gronk would rumble 40 yards for a TD in my above scenario/situation in the discussion of what playaction means, while Mulligan might go 15 yards. Get it?

    It's not about the name on the jersey. It's the skill set and concepts of moving the sticks.

    On Sunday we couldn't get into FG range with Gronk in the 1st half! Couldn't do it in the back of the 3rd qtr or entire 4th in SB 46!   This is what I mean.

    What good is it to have the skill set out there if it's not effective?

    [/QUOTE]

    C'mon Russ that is a bit disingenuous. You are taking 1/2 of 1 game a SB where gronk as operating on 1 leg. If Gronk is healthy in that SB, we win period.

    simplistic argument about its not the name on the jersey. Well, great players have names And certain names hav certain skills. its like saying well, just plug in mallet for Brady and we should just keep humming along. Or, play Russ instead of gronk. You and I know that would never happen. At some point it is about the name because the name is about a unique skill. An individual. 

    i don't think the pats offense is doomed without Gronk. I do think all guys are going tomhavemto step up big time and play well. Brady said it best I think...just have to find a new formula with the parts we have left. It can be done. 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, things have changed since earlier in the season as you note. 

    However, gronk's value is much bigger,than a great red zone threat. With him in the lineup, you have a dual threat weapon...great blocker, great pass catcher. You can run or pass in different formations with him. You can only say something similar with Vereen, with his ability to run or lineup wide or in the slot. Our remaining TEs don't off that flexibility to the offense. 

    devastating? We will see this week when we face a good Miami defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, but Mulligan can block well. That's why I was saying in another thread about how McDaniels can improve first half gamecalling is by using Mulligan and Develin as both blockers AND receivers.

    Seriously. I am not asking for heavy targeting, but strategic targeting to show they can do and will do both.

    No binkies from Brady.  Spread it out and diversify.  I think Brady/McDaniels were too Gronk happy vs the Browns.

    Brady was staring him down a lot and they were trying to get him the ball, which obviously you would want to, but Cleveland knows that too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, mulligan and devein have something to contribute As both blockers and catchers, but there is only 1 Gronk. It's like comparing Amendola to Megatron. At least that is the way I view the skill gap. 

    Someone else said it best...defensive coordinators have to gameplan to stop Gronk. That is often done by doubling him...no other patriot pass catcher needs to be gameplanned around. 

    I don't know what your fascination with Brady's binkies is? The most important chemistry on the field is QB to receiver. Gronk runs the right routes, he catches everything. Brady trusts him. Case closed. I am not sure why you don't see the value in this? I get what you are saying about an over reliance, but comfort level and confidence outweigh that to me. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course there is only one Gronk.  Please learn to read better. Jesus Christ.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Rusty,


    Please stop taking our Lord's name in vain.

     

    Thank you,

    The decent persons on the board.

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't use his name in vain.  I just felt like saying his name at that time. He's my favorite historical figure. lol

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh, I just figured you were praying...no biggie!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CHAMPSXLVIII's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    how do you think the defense right now compares to the defense at the end of last year

     

    [/QUOTE]

    rush d is worse, 3rd down d is worse, red zone d is worse, pass d and pass rush about the same

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Well! I suppose ther s nothing left for you to do than to root for the Celts or Bruins! BYE

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    This is a fascinating argument...

     

    A....  ON the one hand you have an obviously dominant player with a unique skill set that makes a huge impact on the game when hes in there making plays.

    B..... On the other hand ,  it is football , the ultimate team game and you need 11 guys doing their jobs for these plays to be made.  Also like we saw in the first half against Cleveland.  Sometimes Gronk isn't a factor at all.  Add to that the game, which is comprised of 3 phases is completely complimentary meaning the defense can pick up the offense and vice versa.

    I think a couple things come into play now that he is gone.  Football is a game that allows scheme to supercede talent to a certain degree and a team can morph on a weekly basis with proper coaching from emphasizing their running game , to a team that will spread the formations and throw the ball all the time for example.   So the onus goes on MCD and BB to morph the offense into  the utilization of other skill sets.  The good news is there is more talent on the offense.  The challenge is bringing it out. 

    The other thing that comes into play is psychological.   The collective beat-down of losing player after player leaves a team and the individual players with a burden to bear.  HOw they (in particular Brady ) handles this will make a huge difference.    If Brady loses his patience with teammates and gets all frustrated when he throws incompletions then the team will be in trouble on offense. 

    MCD needs to be aware of this and morph his playcalling into a more ball control, screens, misdirection, type of thing vs the more risky option-pass, down the field, big play game.  Not saying to avoid taking shots but the emphasis has to be on getting Brady in a rythym throwing to different guys relying on scheme and misdirection to get them open, along with taking advantage of matchups.   I think the emerging talent that is key is speed.  vereen and boyce come to mind.  Getting these guys the ball in the open field is huge for this offense going forward.  Sneaky guys like Hooman and Develin are also a good option to take advantage of with those late release plays out of pass protection.

    Obviously option A is better but no longer available where you simply have a favorable matchup all the time but scheming to spring other emerging talents can save this offense.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, things have changed since earlier in the season as you note. 

    However, gronk's value is much bigger,than a great red zone threat. With him in the lineup, you have a dual threat weapon...great blocker, great pass catcher. You can run or pass in different formations with him. You can only say something similar with Vereen, with his ability to run or lineup wide or in the slot. Our remaining TEs don't off that flexibility to the offense. 

    devastating? We will see this week when we face a good Miami defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, but Mulligan can block well. That's why I was saying in another thread about how McDaniels can improve first half gamecalling is by using Mulligan and Develin as both blockers AND receivers.

    Seriously. I am not asking for heavy targeting, but strategic targeting to show they can do and will do both.

    No binkies from Brady.  Spread it out and diversify.  I think Brady/McDaniels were too Gronk happy vs the Browns.

    Brady was staring him down a lot and they were trying to get him the ball, which obviously you would want to, but Cleveland knows that too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, mulligan and devein have something to contribute As both blockers and catchers, but there is only 1 Gronk. It's like comparing Amendola to Megatron. At least that is the way I view the skill gap. 

    Someone else said it best...defensive coordinators have to gameplan to stop Gronk. That is often done by doubling him...no other patriot pass catcher needs to be gameplanned around. 

    I don't know what your fascination with Brady's binkies is? The most important chemistry on the field is QB to receiver. Gronk runs the right routes, he catches everything. Brady trusts him. Case closed. I am not sure why you don't see the value in this? I get what you are saying about an over reliance, but comfort level and confidence outweigh that to me. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course there is only one Gronk.  Please learn to read better. Jesus Christ.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Rusty,


    Please stop taking our Lord's name in vain.

     

    Thank you,

    The decent persons on the board.

    [/QUOTE]


    Typical Christian ego feed. Yup you phony Christians are just so much better than those evil nonbelievers. That's why you're always telling other people how to live

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is a fascinating argument...

     

    A....  ON the one hand you have an obviously dominant player with a unique skill set that makes a huge impact on the game when hes in there making plays.

    B..... On the other hand ,  it is football , the ultimate team game and you need 11 guys doing their jobs for these plays to be made.  Also like we saw in the first half against Cleveland.  Sometimes Gronk isn't a factor at all.  Add to that the game, which is comprised of 3 phases is completely complimentary meaning the defense can pick up the offense and vice versa.

    I think a couple things come into play now that he is gone.  Football is a game that allows scheme to supercede talent to a certain degree and a team can morph on a weekly basis with proper coaching from emphasizing their running game , to a team that will spread the formations and throw the ball all the time for example.   So the onus goes on MCD and BB to morph the offense into  the utilization of other skill sets.  The good news is there is more talent on the offense.  The challenge is bringing it out. 

    The other thing that comes into play is psychological.   The collective beat-down of losing player after player leaves a team and the individual players with a burden to bear.  HOw they (in particular Brady ) handles this will make a huge difference.    If Brady loses his patience with teammates and gets all frustrated when he throws incompletions then the team will be in trouble on offense. 

    MCD needs to be aware of this and morph his playcalling into a more ball control, screens, misdirection, type of thing vs the more risky option-pass, down the field, big play game.  Not saying to avoid taking shots but the emphasis has to be on getting Brady in a rythym throwing to different guys relying on scheme and misdirection to get them open, along with taking advantage of matchups.   I think the emerging talent that is key is speed.  vereen and boyce come to mind.  Getting these guys the ball in the open field is huge for this offense going forward.  Sneaky guys like Hooman and Develin are also a good option to take advantage of with those late release plays out of pass protection.

    Obviously option A is better but no longer available where you simply have a favorable matchup all the time but scheming to spring other emerging talents can save this offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.

    [/QUOTE]

    i think i tried to say that but not nearly, nearly as well

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is a fascinating argument...

     

    A....  ON the one hand you have an obviously dominant player with a unique skill set that makes a huge impact on the game when hes in there making plays.

    B..... On the other hand ,  it is football , the ultimate team game and you need 11 guys doing their jobs for these plays to be made.  Also like we saw in the first half against Cleveland.  Sometimes Gronk isn't a factor at all.  Add to that the game, which is comprised of 3 phases is completely complimentary meaning the defense can pick up the offense and vice versa.

    I think a couple things come into play now that he is gone.  Football is a game that allows scheme to supercede talent to a certain degree and a team can morph on a weekly basis with proper coaching from emphasizing their running game , to a team that will spread the formations and throw the ball all the time for example.   So the onus goes on MCD and BB to morph the offense into  the utilization of other skill sets.  The good news is there is more talent on the offense.  The challenge is bringing it out. 

    The other thing that comes into play is psychological.   The collective beat-down of losing player after player leaves a team and the individual players with a burden to bear.  HOw they (in particular Brady ) handles this will make a huge difference.    If Brady loses his patience with teammates and gets all frustrated when he throws incompletions then the team will be in trouble on offense. 

    MCD needs to be aware of this and morph his playcalling into a more ball control, screens, misdirection, type of thing vs the more risky option-pass, down the field, big play game.  Not saying to avoid taking shots but the emphasis has to be on getting Brady in a rythym throwing to different guys relying on scheme and misdirection to get them open, along with taking advantage of matchups.   I think the emerging talent that is key is speed.  vereen and boyce come to mind.  Getting these guys the ball in the open field is huge for this offense going forward.  Sneaky guys like Hooman and Develin are also a good option to take advantage of with those late release plays out of pass protection.

    Obviously option A is better but no longer available where you simply have a favorable matchup all the time but scheming to spring other emerging talents can save this offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent post.

    [/QUOTE]

    i think i tried to say that but not nearly, nearly as well

    [/QUOTE]


    It kind of sums it up in a general way how McD and Brady basically have the team in their hands along with BB.  The defense is what it is at this point...so The challenge is squarely on these guys to put a sensible and resourceful game plan together this week.  This game will be tough enough.. you know, December in Miami and all that. ..  but they really have to grab the horse by the reins this week and take off early.  Another slow or anemic start will be a losing proposition on the road.  Losing Gronk kind of forces their hand and maybe just maybe this loss serves as a wake up call for this offense. 

    Obviously they can't expect to play instantly like they went down the field so easily in the 4th quarter last week.   Cleveland was backing off with the 2 score lead and that is not going to happen in Miami in the first half.  It is going to take time and patience and they will have to earn every yard.   This offense needs to come out unpredictable and stay that way.  

    Whatever your instinct is McD...  do the opposite...  run reverses to different guys.  short passes left and right, then try and hit a pump and go to Boyce on the outside.  It will be there after it gets set up with the ball control stuff.   Use Jumbo formations and throw the ball.  Spread out and run it.   Break out some new plays and run the defense of the dolphins around.... this game is like their super bowl so they will be amped up .  See if you can use it against them.  bait them into overaggression.   That kind of stuff.

    Be unpredictable .  Put Vereen out there on 1st down and Blount on 3rd down.  Mess with their heads.  Slow down their recognition.  Miami knows the old stuff too well.  this game is setting up as a true proving ground for one MR. Josh McD...  imo.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    1. Vereen is here

    2. Amendola is healthier and further along

    3. The rookies are progressing in their own ways/further along

    Gronk's biggest absence will be in the red zone and with how you can dictate plays with his presence, but that does not mean our offense will falter either. Sunday's first half was proof of that.

    Discuss:

    [/QUOTE]

    This kind of reminds me when you started a similar thread when Wilfork went down...how did that work out for you?

    I disagree with your assessment of the devastation of losing Gronk. Gronk was a guy people game planned for, he was a guy teams had to worry about. McDaniels made a good point yesterday saying teams would have to alter the way they practiced and prepared during the week when facing Gronk, it made things difficult just in a preparation sense...that is now gone.

    Gronk is a redzone threat, that is a big deal. Also think about the size of his hands compared to Edelman, Amendola, Vereen and Boyce...now picture all that in the wind on a 20 degree Saturday night playoff game in the post season. Those things matter. Did you listen to Belichick on Monday? He would of sounded happier if someone had walked into the room and told him he had cancer  - that's the way he sounded - it was morbid.

    I agree Vereen adds something to the offense...Amendola too, but losing Gronk is devastating when we talk about the playoffs. It may be fine playing the remaining door mats in the regular season, but come playoff time it won't. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Worked out great. Team is 10-3, a line for the 2nd seed and Vellano and Jones have overachieved for us as UDFAs.

    Each of your parargraphs, I already included in my post. I said his "red zone presence will be missed" and "the way our offense could dictate plays"...

    You're telling me things I already know.

    That's not the point of this thread. The point is how people can throw out ideas as to how we skin the cat differently.

    We spent 2.5 qtrs with Gronk on the field and couldn't even move the ball, so this idea of Gronk being some elixir really isn't the case to move the ball.

    Gronk got hurt early vs Houston last year and the offense still exploded.

    The real key which I mentioned above is the run game and playaction which will be needed by halftime in these games:

    1. vs Miami

    2. vs Baltimore

    3. AFC Title game/SB

    Usually the divisional rd team is flawed enough where we're not beholden to having to have playaction by halftime.

    You can only get playaction if you can run the ball. The time has come. Oh yes it has.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well the points of emphasis that you want me to just leave out and forget are just a little to important to leave out...redzone and how you can dictate plays with his presence.

    Now anything can happen, but I do find some real problems...here is some more...

    Lets say we rely more on our receivers, etc, well we most likely have to go deeper on the edges to free up the middle of the field now because those guys will now be covered. You been watching our pass protection lately? Brady can't drop back and get protection consistently any longer. That's a problem...maybe not in your fantasy land, but in the real world it is. 

    Catching the football - Gronk could do that - Edelman has done well, but he will drop some, that won't get easier in the freezing cold.

    We are now small. Everyone that we send out there now to catch footballs are small...you watch playoff football? They let things go in the post season, defenses get physical, they let them grab a lot more, PI calls don't influence the game nearly as much...you need a big guy to handle that. Now the only plus I can see from that is that gronk being a TE actually hurt us in the PI regard...big tightends were never going to get those calls that a smaller wide receiver might (might). Gronk and Hern would get mugged, but they would look the other way in the playoffs...maybe the receiver won't? Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Another huge problem is the remaining skill players on the roster are some of the most injury prone players in the NFL...Amendola? He is a legend in the injury department. Edelman? He has never stayed healthy...until now...is that going to continue? Vereen? This guy has only played like 6 games in three years for a reason...it's because a stiff wind will break one of his bones. 

    The wild card is Boyce and Dobson too me, but I just don't think they are enough of this offense at this point to change our fate...next year? Yeah maybe then, but not now.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating


    It can be overcome. It would nice if we had him for the SB though. Next man up-that's how BB builds a team.

    I'm tired of seeing guys gun for him to injure him and knock him out. Pollard first, now the midget brain Ward

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    1. Vereen is here

    2. Amendola is healthier and further along

    3. The rookies are progressing in their own ways/further along

    Gronk's biggest absence will be in the red zone and with how you can dictate plays with his presence, but that does not mean our offense will falter either. Sunday's first half was proof of that.

    Discuss:



    This kind of reminds me when you started a similar thread when Wilfork went down...how did that work out for you?

    I disagree with your assessment of the devastation of losing Gronk. Gronk was a guy people game planned for, he was a guy teams had to worry about. McDaniels made a good point yesterday saying teams would have to alter the way they practiced and prepared during the week when facing Gronk, it made things difficult just in a preparation sense...that is now gone.

    Gronk is a redzone threat, that is a big deal. Also think about the size of his hands compared to Edelman, Amendola, Vereen and Boyce...now picture all that in the wind on a 20 degree Saturday night playoff game in the post season. Those things matter. Did you listen to Belichick on Monday? He would of sounded happier if someone had walked into the room and told him he had cancer  - that's the way he sounded - it was morbid.

    I agree Vereen adds something to the offense...Amendola too, but losing Gronk is devastating when we talk about the playoffs. It may be fine playing the remaining door mats in the regular season, but come playoff time it won't. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Worked out great. Team is 10-3, a line for the 2nd seed and Vellano and Jones have overachieved for us as UDFAs.

    Each of your parargraphs, I already included in my post. I said his "red zone presence will be missed" and "the way our offense could dictate plays"...

    You're telling me things I already know.

    That's not the point of this thread. The point is how people can throw out ideas as to how we skin the cat differently.

    We spent 2.5 qtrs with Gronk on the field and couldn't even move the ball, so this idea of Gronk being some elixir really isn't the case to move the ball.

    Gronk got hurt early vs Houston last year and the offense still exploded.

    The real key which I mentioned above is the run game and playaction which will be needed by halftime in these games:

    1. vs Miami

    2. vs Baltimore

    3. AFC Title game/SB

    Usually the divisional rd team is flawed enough where we're not beholden to having to have playaction by halftime.

    You can only get playaction if you can run the ball. The time has come. Oh yes it has.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well the points of emphasis that you want me to just leave out and forget are just a little to important to leave out...redzone and how you can dictate plays with his presence.

    Now anything can happen, but I do find some real problems...here is some more...

    Lets say we rely more on our receivers, etc, well we most likely have to go deeper on the edges to free up the middle of the field now because those guys will now be covered. You been watching our pass protection lately? Brady can't drop back and get protection consistently any longer. That's a problem...maybe not in your fantasy land, but in the real world it is. 

    Catching the football - Gronk could do that - Edelman has done well, but he will drop some, that won't get easier in the freezing cold.

    We are now small. Everyone that we send out there now to catch footballs are small...you watch playoff football? They let things go in the post season, defenses get physical, they let them grab a lot more, PI calls don't influence the game nearly as much...you need a big guy to handle that. Now the only plus I can see from that is that gronk being a TE actually hurt us in the PI regard...big tightends were never going to get those calls that a smaller wide receiver might (might). Gronk and Hern would get mugged, but they would look the other way in the playoffs...maybe the receiver won't? Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Another huge problem is the remaining skill players on the roster are some of the most injury prone players in the NFL...Amendola? He is a legend in the injury department. Edelman? He has never stayed healthy...until now...is that going to continue? Vereen? This guy has only played like 6 games in three years for a reason...it's because a stiff wind will break one of his bones. 

    The wild card is Boyce and Dobson too me, but I just don't think they are enough of this offense at this point to change our fate...next year? Yeah maybe then, but not now.

    [/QUOTE]


    Should I bring back the resign Quentin Sims thread....?   That is exactly the reason that I wanted that guy.  When the going gets tough you need tough receivers who can make tough contested catches .  Plus being big helps too.   Gusy like Boldin and Colston... Josh Gordon.  Quentin Sims showed that ability and BB let him walk.  Where is that guy now...?   Wouldn't you rather have him if either Dobson or Thompkins don't get back to 100%...?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    ANY team that is considered a serious contender MUST HAVE talent beyond a great TE to be truly qualified as one. The only way ANY a player loss could truly "devastate" a team who has a legit greatest all time HOF QB is if that HOF QB was lost. Football is the ultimate professional TEAM sport and ANY other player losses for a legit contender should merely be holes that can be  adequately filled and adjusted for and that doesnt mean filled to the same level of pErformance. Otherwise, a team so fragile is not a serious contender to begin with. Add to this that BB is the most creative adjustment designer and football scientist in history of the NFL and the rest of the team are THE NE PATRIOTS, an org driven by excellence, gives them that much more swagg and confidence to do what others think they cant/wont. Now we control the #1 seed and own destiny too. PATS NEED TO WIN 5 or 6 of next 6. I believe they will. Its all coming together. GO PATS!!!!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Why Gronk's Absence Is Not Devastating

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    1. Vereen is here

    2. Amendola is healthier and further along

    3. The rookies are progressing in their own ways/further along

    Gronk's biggest absence will be in the red zone and with how you can dictate plays with his presence, but that does not mean our offense will falter either. Sunday's first half was proof of that.

    Discuss:

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This kind of reminds me when you started a similar thread when Wilfork went down...how did that work out for you?

     

    I disagree with your assessment of the devastation of losing Gronk. Gronk was a guy people game planned for, he was a guy teams had to worry about. McDaniels made a good point yesterday saying teams would have to alter the way they practiced and prepared during the week when facing Gronk, it made things difficult just in a preparation sense...that is now gone.

    Gronk is a redzone threat, that is a big deal. Also think about the size of his hands compared to Edelman, Amendola, Vereen and Boyce...now picture all that in the wind on a 20 degree Saturday night playoff game in the post season. Those things matter. Did you listen to Belichick on Monday? He would of sounded happier if someone had walked into the room and told him he had cancer  - that's the way he sounded - it was morbid.

    I agree Vereen adds something to the offense...Amendola too, but losing Gronk is devastating when we talk about the playoffs. It may be fine playing the remaining door mats in the regular season, but come playoff time it won't. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Worked out great. Team is 10-3, a line for the 2nd seed and Vellano and Jones have overachieved for us as UDFAs.

    Each of your parargraphs, I already included in my post. I said his "red zone presence will be missed" and "the way our offense could dictate plays"...

    You're telling me things I already know.

    That's not the point of this thread. The point is how people can throw out ideas as to how we skin the cat differently.

    We spent 2.5 qtrs with Gronk on the field and couldn't even move the ball, so this idea of Gronk being some elixir really isn't the case to move the ball.

    Gronk got hurt early vs Houston last year and the offense still exploded.

    The real key which I mentioned above is the run game and playaction which will be needed by halftime in these games:

    1. vs Miami

    2. vs Baltimore

    3. AFC Title game/SB

    Usually the divisional rd team is flawed enough where we're not beholden to having to have playaction by halftime.

    You can only get playaction if you can run the ball. The time has come. Oh yes it has.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well the points of emphasis that you want me to just leave out and forget are just a little to important to leave out...redzone and how you can dictate plays with his presence.

    Now anything can happen, but I do find some real problems...here is some more...

    Lets say we rely more on our receivers, etc, well we most likely have to go deeper on the edges to free up the middle of the field now because those guys will now be covered. You been watching our pass protection lately? Brady can't drop back and get protection consistently any longer. That's a problem...maybe not in your fantasy land, but in the real world it is. 

    Catching the football - Gronk could do that - Edelman has done well, but he will drop some, that won't get easier in the freezing cold.

    We are now small. Everyone that we send out there now to catch footballs are small...you watch playoff football? They let things go in the post season, defenses get physical, they let them grab a lot more, PI calls don't influence the game nearly as much...you need a big guy to handle that. Now the only plus I can see from that is that gronk being a TE actually hurt us in the PI regard...big tightends were never going to get those calls that a smaller wide receiver might (might). Gronk and Hern would get mugged, but they would look the other way in the playoffs...maybe the receiver won't? Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Another huge problem is the remaining skill players on the roster are some of the most injury prone players in the NFL...Amendola? He is a legend in the injury department. Edelman? He has never stayed healthy...until now...is that going to continue? Vereen? This guy has only played like 6 games in three years for a reason...it's because a stiff wind will break one of his bones. 

    The wild card is Boyce and Dobson too me, but I just don't think they are enough of this offense at this point to change our fate...next year? Yeah maybe then, but not now.

    [/QUOTE]


    Should I bring back the resign Quentin Sims thread....?   That is exactly the reason that I wanted that guy.  When the going gets tough you need tough receivers who can make tough contested catches .  Plus being big helps too.   Gusy like Boldin and Colston... Josh Gordon.  Quentin Sims showed that ability and BB let him walk.  Where is that guy now...?   Wouldn't you rather have him if either Dobson or Thompkins don't get back to 100%...?

    [/QUOTE]


    I wanted to add how a big wide receiver can almost be a hybrid TE where you get the mismatches downfield with the catch radius /jumping ability etc.  Same reason they would run Gronk into the deep secondary ...  to get the size mismatch.

    Seems like an opportunity to morph a lost TE into a big Hybrid WR.  For the packages where you split Gronk out wide,  wouldn't you rather have a faster WR Sims in that role than say a Hooman...?

     

     

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