Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]I threw in the BM example to prove even BB's worst 1st round draft pick makes the pro bowl. You or I may not love him, but the guy makes pro bowls. That's better than Vernon Gholston for example. You are a tool. The offense set the tone the entire season, and the offense crapped the bed in the playoffs. the D didn't play well enough to win, but they weren't designed to win games last year with so many rookies. How is this hard to understand?!? They were a front-running D designed to work in combo with the offense. The offense dropped the ball so the pats didn't perform as well on D as typical, but not so far from average as another poster noted. What is your point anyway?!? That BB is awful? That Brady is perfect and therefore no fault should be put at his feet? Most absurdly, you comparing Brady's first drive, momentum killing INT to a tipped ball is incredibly ludicrous. HE THREW IT RIGHT AT A MIDDLE LINEBACKER! It was an awful play.  Also, is BB to blame for the stubborn play-calling that game of Bill O'Brien? I don't see what your point is. That BB drafts bad and therefore the D isn't good enough? We must need every OLB prospect out there I guess. If 1 in 20 or them work out (which is pretty much the hit % on those guys) then they should just draft 20 of them. You should be GM since Bill is so incompetent. Lord knows you must run a huge company because you're so smart and have all the answers.  In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    No no no no. YOU must have all the answers.

    So, what's the answer to the question of why BB hasn't won a SB in 6 years despite having a HOF QB?

    And why has the genius had a playoff no show and two one and outs in the last 3 years?

    I await your brilliance.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Here ya go, a cut and paste from a TexasPat thread.......




    Here's how BB has done drafting.


    2010 - Four picks in the top 60 or so players. You can only expect to get something good out of that. McCourty so far has been outstanding. The rest on D are filler to this point. Two good TEs. B

    2009 - The Genius took the 34th, 40th and 41st picks in 2009 and the sum total stat results for those 3 top 41 players taken are; 2 sacks, 7 INTs and 159 tackles. Laurenaitis alone has more tackles, more sacks and nearly half as many INTs as those three put togther. Traded away the first round and missed Matthews.  D

    2008 - Lost a 1st rounder due to BB's stupid spygate scandal. Took Wheatley and Crable in the 2nd and 3rd that were both DUDS. Picking Mayo saves the draft. B -

    2007 - Meriweather. Period. C -

    2006 - Maroney, Jackson, pitiful drafting. F

    2005 - A very good lineman, though has not played his best in the playoffs, (even if a personality problem) and some decent filler players. Better than usual. B -

    2004 - Stud DL and a dissappointing TE in the 1st, wasted 2nd round pick. C -

    2003 - Didn't get much more than a decent starter from the 13th overall pick, and two 2nd rounders for filler. D

    2002 - Poor use of 1st round pick, decent WR in 2nd round. D

    2001 - Great DL, good OL, nothing else. B

    2000 - Not many picks, and he got zip. Except for the luckiest pick in history in the 6th round. He gets his only A for being lucky.

    OVERALL - BB (with "whoever" during his tenure) has been about a "C" drafter. Average. And now you know why we have not won a SB in six years despite having one of the greatest legends of the game at the most important position on the field for a decade. When Brady goes, we will see BB is really the guy that failed in Cleveland. If he's still here.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Babe - I think you are being a little brutal on a couple of the drafts namely:

    10' - When you get starters out of McCourty, Spikes, Cunningham, Gronk, and Hernandez you have to give that an A grade. Then add a punter with a booming leg, it might turn out to be the best draft BB has had yet

    09' - Chung and Vollmer both could be pro-bowlers and I expect them to both be pro-bowlers in the next couple years. Brace has been a servicable backup but Butler has been a bust. Tate also has to pick it up but overall I think most teams would be happy to come out with 2 pro-bowl caliber starters in their 2nd year. Have to give them at least a B on that

    08' - Mayo was a slam dunk but picking in the top 10 you better pick a top end starter. A C might be a better grade

    07' - Hard to argue

    06' - Gost was the only one worth mentioning so F might be fine

    05' - Was a good year. They had Mankins, Sanders, Kaczur, Cassel all of which were starters at one point or another. This has to be closer to B+

    Overall though BB has to be closer to a B. He had a stretch of bad drafts from 06-08 but he also had a number of good years that we saw multiple starters from. Most teams would give their left nut to get 2 starters from the draft 7 out of 10 years and that's pretty much what BB has done
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    name one GM/Coach combo that has had a better 5 year span? 06,07 were bad years for practically everyone.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Here ya go, a cut and paste from a TexasPat thread....... Here's how BB has done drafting. 2010 - Four picks in the top 60 or so players. You can only expect to get something good out of that. McCourty so far has been outstanding. The rest on D are filler to this point. Two good TEs. B 2009 - The Genius took the 34th, 40th and 41st picks in 2009 and the sum total stat results for those 3 top 41 players taken are; 2 sacks, 7 INTs and 159 tackles. Laurenaitis alone has more tackles, more sacks and nearly half as many INTs as those three put togther. Traded away the first round and missed Matthews.  D 2008 - Lost a 1st rounder due to BB's stupid spygate scandal. Took Wheatley and Crable in the 2nd and 3rd that were both DUDS. Picking Mayo saves the draft. B - 2007 - Meriweather. Period. C - 2006 - Maroney, Jackson, pitiful drafting. F 2005 - A very good lineman, though has not played his best in the playoffs, (even if a personality problem) and some decent filler players. Better than usual. B - 2004 - Stud DL and a dissappointing TE in the 1st, wasted 2nd round pick. C - 2003 - Didn't get much more than a decent starter from the 13th overall pick, and two 2nd rounders for filler. D 2002 - Poor use of 1st round pick, decent WR in 2nd round. D 2001 - Great DL, good OL, nothing else. B 2000 - Not many picks, and he got zip. Except for the luckiest pick in history in the 6th round. He gets his only A for being lucky. OVERALL - BB (with "whoever" during his tenure) has been about a "C" drafter. Average. And now you know why we have not won a SB in six years despite having one of the greatest legends of the game at the most important position on the field for a decade. When Brady goes, we will see BB is really the guy that failed in Cleveland. If he's still here.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    The truth is drafting is a very luck based part of football, that some are turned into legends (when they shouldn't be) and some are turned into goats (Bobby Grier). It's all about who's coaching these guys and the system and players that are in place around them. 

    I for one think that Bill has held his own through the years, but in no way should be considered a draft genius. I like the way he accumulates picks, but then he trades them away into next year. He has found some hidden gems, but you get the feeling he thinks many are not worthy of his defensive front seven system (then you see these higher round guys go off to have success elsewhere).

    The good news is you have Bill the coach, making Bill the GM look good. And of course Brady has made everyone in that organization look good.
     
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    LOL! The NFL is competitive and has 32 teams! It's impossible to win every year. The other coaches and players are paid too, and the teams that won 3 superbowls are not still in place due to many reasons but mainly age. It's the same reason why Bill Russell doesn't play center for the c's. You are aware that players age?

    Babe, you seriously need to listen to Pitino's rant. I'm not even kidding. Those years are over so either get on board with the younger guys or start a website called oldcodgerscomplain.com and whine about BB there. 

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : No no no no. YOU must have all the answers. So, what's the answer to the question of why BB hasn't won a SB in 6 years despite having a HOF QB? And why has the genius had a playoff no show and two one and outs in the last 3 years? I await your brilliance.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: San Francisco fans were going through this same give-and-take about Bill Walsh after the 49ers lost three straight playoff games from 1985-87. They were in the midst of rebuilding after their great 18-1 team from 1984 began to get long in the tooth. In '87, they surprised everyone by going 13-2 and dominating the regular season--then they submitted a complete stinkbomb in their playoff opener, at home, against an 8-7 Minnesota team. Walsh had to go after that, so said a lot of SF fans, because he'd lost his touch, clearly.

    We all know what happened after that, however: two straight SB wins and a near-threepeat that was one Roger Craig fumble away from happening.

    Calm down people.

    The rebuilding project is 95% complete in Foxboro, and the 2010 season was their equivalent of SF's 1987 season. 

    By the way...every GM has bad drafts. BB is no different. But I'd pit his track record against almost anyone's over the last 10 years, and he would clearly finish among the Top 5 in the NFL. That is not even arguable from a factual standpoint. It just isn't. But emotions and perceptions are not facts, so that's why there is so much anti-BB sentiment out there right now.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]^^^Yup. I had mentioned that parallel before too, HR.   No doubt.  The difference here is the cap. Makes what BB is doing all the more impressive. Who knows, maybe his 2010 draft will go down similarly to what Walsh's 86 draft was?  Likely not as good as that, but symbolically, it could be the same.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    For my money, that '86 SF draft was #1A to the 1974 Steelers #1. Pittsburgh's '74 draft had the 4 HOF'ers and a couple of decent role players, but SF's '86 draft garnered EIGHT starters on back-to-back SB winners. Eight starters. That simply doesn't happen. Granted, Charles Haley likely is the only HOF'er from that group, so the Steelers have them 4-1 in HOF picks. But man...eight starters on two SB winners from just one draft is incredible.

    BB's 2010 draft has a chance to fall somewhere behind those two drafts, but ahead of some of the other great drafts in history IMO. Hopefully, injuries will not intervene too much in some of those players' careers, because that's always the big "X" factor once a player has established that he truly belongs in the NFL.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Here ya go, a cut and paste from a TexasPat thread....... Here's how BB has done drafting. 2010 - Four picks in the top 60 or so players. You can only expect to get something good out of that. McCourty so far has been outstanding. The rest on D are filler to this point. Two good TEs. B 2009 - The Genius took the 34th, 40th and 41st picks in 2009 and the sum total stat results for those 3 top 41 players taken are; 2 sacks, 7 INTs and 159 tackles. Laurenaitis alone has more tackles, more sacks and nearly half as many INTs as those three put togther. Traded away the first round and missed Matthews.  D 2008 - Lost a 1st rounder due to BB's stupid spygate scandal. Took Wheatley and Crable in the 2nd and 3rd that were both DUDS. Picking Mayo saves the draft. B - 2007 - Meriweather. Period. C - 2006 - Maroney, Jackson, pitiful drafting. F 2005 - A very good lineman, though has not played his best in the playoffs, (even if a personality problem) and some decent filler players. Better than usual. B - 2004 - Stud DL and a dissappointing TE in the 1st, wasted 2nd round pick. C - 2003 - Didn't get much more than a decent starter from the 13th overall pick, and two 2nd rounders for filler. D 2002 - Poor use of 1st round pick, decent WR in 2nd round. D 2001 - Great DL, good OL, nothing else. B 2000 - Not many picks, and he got zip. Except for the luckiest pick in history in the 6th round. He gets his only A for being lucky. OVERALL - BB (with "whoever" during his tenure) has been about a "C" drafter. Average. And now you know why we have not won a SB in six years despite having one of the greatest legends of the game at the most important position on the field for a decade. When Brady goes, we will see BB is really the guy that failed in Cleveland. If he's still here.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    You're drafting standards are absurdly high.  I'd like to see your take on any other teams drafting history, I doubt anyone has ever gotten better than a C by your standards.  2001, just a multi probowler an a HOF'er.  How many of those guys to make an A.  Here's the Saints drafting history for example, I don't see any HOF'ers.  And they have had a bunch of top 10 picks and drafted relatively well compared to the rest fo the NFL, but still more failures than successes.  That's just the draft.

    New Orleans Saints Draft History

     
    2010
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Patrick Robinson Florida State  
    2 Charles Brown USC  
    3 Jimmy Graham Miami (FL)  
    4 Al Woods LSU  
    5 Matt Tennant Boston College  
    7 Sean Canfield Oregon State  
     
    2009
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Malcolm Jenkins Ohio State  
    4 Chip Vaughn Wake Forest  
    4 Stanley Arnoux Wake Forest  
    5 Thomas Morstead Southern Methodist  
     
    2008
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Sedrick Ellis USC  
    2 Tracy Porter Indiana  
    5 DeMario Pressley North Carolina State  
    5 Carl Nicks Nebraska  
    6 Taylor Mehlhaff Wisconsin  
    7 Adrian Arrington Michigan  
     
    2007
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Robert Meachem Tennessee  
    3 Usama Young Kent State  
    3 Andy Alleman Akron  
    4 Antonio Pittman Ohio State  
    4 Jermon Bushrod Towson  
    5 David Jones Wingate  
    7 Marvin Mitchell Tennessee  
     
    2006
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Reggie Bush USC  
    2 Roman Harper Alabama  
    4 Jahri Evans Bloomsburg (PA)  
    5 Rob Ninkovich Purdue  
    6 Mike Hass Oregon State  
    6 Josh (Bernard) Lay Pittsburgh  
    7 Zach Strief Northwestern  
    7 Marques Colston Hofstra  
     
    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Jammal Brown Oklahoma  
    2 Josh Bullocks Nebraska  
    3 Alfred Fincher Connecticut  
    4 Chase Lyman California  
    5 Adrian McPherson Florida State  
    6 Jason Jefferson Wisconsin  
    7 Jimmy Verdon Arizona State  
     
    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Will Smith Ohio State  
    2 Devery Henderson Louisiana State  
    2 Courtney Watson Notre Dame  
    5 Rodney Leisle UCLA  
    5 Mike Karney Arizona State  
    7 Colby Bockwoldt Brigham Young  
     
    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Johnathan Sullivan Georgia  
    2 Jonathan Stinchcomb Georgia  
    3 Willie Grant (Cie) Ohio State  
    4 Montrae Holland Florida State  
    5 Melvin Williams Kansas State  
    6 Kareem Kelly USC  
    7 Talman Gardner Florida State  
     
    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Donte Stallworth Tennessee  
    1 Charles Grant Georgia  
    2 LeCharles Bentley Ohio State  
    3 James Allen Oregon State  
    4 Keyuo Craver Nebraska  
    5 Mel Mitchell Western Kentucky  
    6 J.T. O'Sullivan California-Davis  
    6 John Gilmore Penn State  
    7 Derrius Monroe Virginia Tech  
     
    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Deuce McAllister Mississippi  
    3 Sedrick Hodge North Carolina  
    3 Kenny Smith Alabama  
    4 Moran Norris Kansas  
    5 Onomoe Ojo California-Davis  
    6 Mitch White Oregon State  
    7 Ennis Davis USC  
     
    2000
    Rnd Name College Note
    2 Darren Howard Kansas State  
    4 Terrelle Smith Arizona State  
    5 Tutan Reyes Mississippi  
    5 Austin Wheatley Iowa  
    5 Chad Morton USC  
    6 Marc Bulger West Virginia  
    6 Michael Hawthorne Purdue  
    6 Sherrod Gideon Southern Mississippi  
    7 Kevin Houser Ohio State
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Babe - I think you are being a little brutal on a couple of the drafts namely: 10' - When you get starters out of McCourty, Spikes, Cunningham, Gronk, and Hernandez you have to give that an A grade. Then add a punter with a booming leg, it might turn out to be the best draft BB has had yet 09' - Chung and Vollmer both could be pro-bowlers and I expect them to both be pro-bowlers in the next couple years. Brace has been a servicable backup but Butler has been a bust. Tate also has to pick it up but overall I think most teams would be happy to come out with 2 pro-bowl caliber starters in their 2nd year. Have to give them at least a B on that 08' - Mayo was a slam dunk but picking in the top 10 you better pick a top end starter. A C might be a better grade 07' - Hard to argue 06' - Gost was the only one worth mentioning so F might be fine 05' - Was a good year. They had Mankins, Sanders, Kaczur, Cassel all of which were starters at one point or another. This has to be closer to B+ Overall though BB has to be closer to a B. He had a stretch of bad drafts from 06-08 but he also had a number of good years that we saw multiple starters from. Most teams would give their left nut to get 2 starters from the draft 7 out of 10 years and that's pretty much what BB has done
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    "Starters" can be a misleading term. To be a starter in a spot where you have basically nothing but a scrub to beat out does not mean it was a good pick.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]name one GM/Coach combo that has had a better 5 year span? 06,07 were bad years for practically everyone.
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    I will submit the teams that have won SBs in the last 6 years that BB has not.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : The truth is drafting is a very luck based part of football, that some are turned into legends (when they shouldn't be) and some are turned into goats (Bobby Grier). It's all about who's coaching these guys and the system and players that are in place around them.  I for one think that Bill has held his own through the years, but in no way should be considered a draft genius. I like the way he accumulates picks, but then he trades them away into next year. He has found some hidden gems, but you get the feeling he thinks many are not worthy of his defensive front seven system (then you see these higher round guys go off to have success elsewhere). The good news is you have Bill the coach, making Bill the GM look good. And of course Brady has made everyone in that organization look good.  
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I can find little in what you say to dispute. Well said.

     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : That's just utterly ridiculous and irrational grading on those drafts.   What do the Detroit Lions get?  F--------? You are just looking for attention here with those comments.  You've lost a lot of creddibility here with that.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    C'mon King, steady now. I know this assaults your BB worship, but try to resist the urge to strike out blindly when your fallacies are exposed.

    He has been an average GM.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Umm, because it's a salary cap league and it's pretty arrogant to think your own team will walk into a SB every year maybe?  We aren't the Jets and their fanbase here. It's really hard to get to a SB let alone win it. And they lost 4-6 Pro Bowl type players all within a 2 year span 2007-2009 and needed to replace that talent and experience?  Maybe those are the reasons? They have been rebuilding, professor.  You appear to be intelligent, so it's flat out baffling why you can't see this. Everyone and their mother, even the most irrational Pats fan besides yourself, has finally accepted this concept even if it's 2 years too late. Did you really expect them to go to a SB with Matt Cassel in 2008? Or 2009 after dealing Seymour and Vrabel and Brady back after missing a full year? Really? We know the SB 42 loss came from a miracle play at the end, so stop acting like Belichick doesn't have them sniffing around for a SB run pretty much every year, because he does. Most NFL teams who get close, shoot their wad and then fade off.  Look at almost every single team that has either attended or won a SB in the last 10 years. The only teams who haven't are the Steelers and Colts. Maybe the Saints. Maybe Philly even though they haven't won one. Same with Baltimore. Another bridesmaid, but still very competitive. SD is another, but in a cupcake division. Every team fell off. Oakland, TB, Carolina, St. Louis, Seattle, the Giants, Arizona, etc. Belichick took Spygate on the chin by losing a 1st rd draft pick which was part of a strategy in the draft, too. Heck, even the Steelers and Colts are in trouble with questionable rebuilding strategies right now.   Each has age issues in key spots. We are seeing flat out legendary activity here and you are complaining?  Your life must be incredibly empty and sad.  I have no doubt. Just sad.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    King King King. Excuses excuses excuses.

    Excuses are not allowed. BB has the control. He is the genius. But the job isn't getting done despite having the best QB in the business. I insist he do his job.

    Yes, I am sad, oh so sad. The tears stream as I type. Thank you for the empathy.

    You are a good Patriot's fan King, and in that I salute you.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]LOL! The NFL is competitive and has 32 teams! It's impossible to win every year. The other coaches and players are paid too, and the teams that won 3 superbowls are not still in place due to many reasons but mainly age. It's the same reason why Bill Russell doesn't play center for the c's. You are aware that players age? Babe, you seriously need to listen to Pitino's rant. I'm not even kidding. Those years are over so either get on board with the younger guys or start a website called oldcodgerscomplain.com and whine about BB there.  In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    Waaaaah, it's so hard to win the Super Bowl, sniff sniff.

    Not good enough. If BB wants the job, THEN DO IT. I'm not impressed by excuses.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Babe, something tells me that you don't really believe most of what you're posting here about BB.

    I mean, if you've truly been a Pats fan long enough to remember Babe Parilli, then you must know that BB is by far the best talent evaluator/accumulator that the organization has ever had, and that he's still one of the best in the NFL today.

    Only Chuck Fairbanks in the mid-70s even comes close, in fact, and Chuck never won anything except one paltry AFC East crown in '78 (when his butt was already halfway out the door to Colorado).

    Do you truly believe that BB is that bad or are you just trying to get a rise out of people?

    Do you honestly think that "win the Super Bowl or the season is a failure" is the only way to evaluate a team's success? (That's what your, "I will submit the teams that have won Super Bowls in the last six years that BB has not," answer above seems to imply).

    Did those six teams who've won Super Bowls since 2004 have an enormous amount of veterans who all got old at basically the same time, while at the same time having assistant after assistant and front office member after front office member leave the organization for better jobs? (That's called lack of continuity, and very few organizations have had to deal with as much lack of continuity as the Pats in the last half-decade.) Did those six teams also qualify for the playoffs every year (but one) while going through the coaching/front office carousel and the aging/rebuilding process that the Pats have endured? 

    Back in the 80s when the Larry Bird Celtics were among the best teams in the NBA pretty much every year, I also fell for the "win the title or the season is a waste of time" viewpoint. I realize now that having such standards as a fan not only is completely unrealistic, it also dampens the amount of enjoyment one gets out of watching the games and following the teams. And oh by the way, those Celtics teams dropped off the face of the earth after 1988 because they did what BB has always refused to do: they held on to their old veterans out of a sense of loyalty, even though it was clear that their title-winning days were long over and even though the NBA, like the NFL, is a salary cap league.

    I'm not sure if you're serious or not about BB, but if you are, I'd take a step back, analyze where this franchise was before he came along (or at least before Parcells, then Kraft came along), analyze where it is today--even with their horrid and apparently unacceptable/disgraceful track record of no Super Bowl wins since 2004--and re-think your position a bit.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: San Francisco fans were going through this same give-and-take about Bill Walsh after the 49ers lost three straight playoff games from 1985-87. They were in the midst of rebuilding after their great 18-1 team from 1984 began to get long in the tooth. In '87, they surprised everyone by going 13-2 and dominating the regular season--then they submitted a complete stinkbomb in their playoff opener, at home, against an 8-7 Minnesota team. Walsh had to go after that, so said a lot of SF fans, because he'd lost his touch, clearly. We all know what happened after that, however: two straight SB wins and a near-threepeat that was one Roger Craig fumble away from happening. Calm down people. The rebuilding project is 95% complete in Foxboro, and the 2010 season was their equivalent of SF's 1987 season.  By the way...every GM has bad drafts. BB is no different. But I'd pit his track record against almost anyone's over the last 10 years, and he would clearly finish among the Top 5 in the NFL. That is not even arguable from a factual standpoint. It just isn't. But emotions and perceptions are not facts, so that's why there is so much anti-BB sentiment out there right now.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    I'll be all on board with what a great job BB is doing as soon as we win another SB. Until then, he isn't getting the job done.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I'll be all on board with what a great job BB is doing as soon as we win another SB. Until then, he isn't getting the job done.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Fair Weather Fan........
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I'll be all on board with what a great job BB is doing as soon as we win another SB. Until then, he isn't getting the job done.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    So if they Win the SB this year the last few years drafts will be good, but if they win 3SB's that doesn't make the 2000-2004 drafts good.  If Tyree drops that pass are the 05-07 draft then good.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I'll be all on board with what a great job BB is doing as soon as we win another SB. Until then, he isn't getting the job done.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    See my post above.

    Do you really mean this or are you just trying to be an agent provocateur?

    If you really mean it, you're an awfully tough guy to please, I must say.
     
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