Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    The real expectation is still to win the Super Bowl. I get that Babe is pi--ed that we haven't won it in awhile. My point was that to rebuild on the fly and win your division is not easy. All dynasties have tremendous difficulty doing this (Steelers, Cowboys, Colts, and 49ers). Belichick has done a very good job, however, he has failed to win in the playoffs recently. So some fans think its time to pile on Belichick for no reason other than not winning a Super Bowl. My response to that is take your pink Sox hat elsewhere. No league is has more obstacles to overcome to attain a championship than the NFL. As previously stated, the rules are specifically geared to (cap, schedule, draft) prevent any one team from completely dominating.

    Name one team in the AFC that has done a better job rebuilding than the Pats (the Steelers era ends with Brister and begins with Rapistburger), the Colts s--ked for years until Manning showed up, every year we hear about how much talent the Chargers have and every year they win nothing. The Jets use a patch-work of FAs and draftees and have won nothing. It simply is not easy to win the SB every year. Yet some morons think it's possible (next to  impossible with a cap and scheduling) to win every year, when even winning your division is tough. Made tougher by having a young team.

    Rusty is right. There are plenty of organizations that would love to have a team of the Patriots caliber in their town it' just not easy to get to that level.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Who wouldn't drool at the prospect of having the greatest QB ever? The names you are looking for I believe are: McGinist, Bruschi, Law, Johnson, Milloy, Tebucky Jones, Troy Brown, Kevin Faulk, Vinatieri, Woody and Rutledge.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Babe, I don't believe you're a Jets troll, and I believe that you love the Pats, but even if Brady is the greatest QB ever, every single other QB who has previously held that unofficial title played many more championship-less years in the NFL than championship-winning years. Montana played from 1979-1994, and won four championships. Unitas played from the mid-50s through the early 70s, and won three championships. Bart Starr won five titles in a little more than a decade in Green Bay, which is great, but he still played more years without winning a title than he played years winning a title.

    If Brady plays five more years and the Pats can pull off two more titles in that timeframe, that will give him five titles in about 16 years---that puts him way ahead of the curve, quite frankly.

    What's my point?

    My point is that even with a franchise QB--the greatest QB ever, even--it's hard to win championships, and it's ALWAYS been hard to win championships. Nowadays, it's even harder.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Yes, we're all sick and tired of no pass rush. I agree 100% with Babe on that. I do hope that perhaps the pass rushing talent is already on the roster and that it just needs a little more time to develop. There's also free agency after the lockout lifts. Perhaps some help will come from there. I agree with Babe about the pass rush, but he does seem to be using that apparent shortcoming to tar BB's entire tenure in NE as nothing but a product of getting "lucky" with a 6th round pick in 2000. That seems a bit odd to me. Posted by hardright Well BB has made the playoffs 1 in 7 tries without Brady. Yet he has made it 9 out of 10 with him. That tells the story pretty plainly.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    It's the NFL.

    You need a QB to win consistently in the NFL.

    This has always been true.

    Landry's Cowboys didn't start winning titles until he axed Morton midway through the '71 season and decided to go with Staubach.

    Cowher's (and Tomlin's) Steelers didn't start winning SBs until Big Ben was drafted.

    Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys don't win those SBs without Aikman at the helm of that offense--imagine if JJ's University of Miami fixation won out and he'd chosen to keep Steve Walsh and trade Aikman instead? Cowboys fans don't even want to contemplate that scenario.

    Walsh won with Montana--he didn't win with Steve DeBerg before that.

    Lombardi had Starr, and believe me, GB doesn't win five championships with Zeke Bratkowski taking the snaps at QB all of those years.

    The 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs are exceptions to the rule, and they're usually just "one year wonder" types of exceptions.

    You have to have at least above-average QB play to win in the NFL.  That's always been the case.

    BB gets a bum rap about his Cleveland days if you ask me. Kosar was about 30 going on 50 when BB got there. His body was all dinged up and he was nearing the end. BB wasn't able to acquire a decent QB until Testaverde came along in '93, I believe. In 1994 they went 11-5 and made the playoffs and they were 3-1 or 4-1 (can't remember) in 1995 before the "we're moving to Baltimore" axe fell in October...that was kind of a buzzkill for the players. 

    But regardless, if your point is that BB isn't good at his job(s) unless he's getting good QB play, then yes, you're correct. That's also true of just about every other head coach and/or GM in NFL history.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : If Brady wins 2 more SBs before he retires I will forgive BB for his blunders, lol.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    OK, I think you've just given "The King" his signature line going forwardSealed
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I'm given credit because the facts say I'm correct. I was screaming at the screen the whole game saying, "why are you letting these chumps stay in the game?". And then the fluke beat them. That's what can happen when you screw around most of the game reading your press clippings.  A bad break just might ***steal***l the greatest season in history away from you. We DESERVED to lose that game. *** I tried to use the word s*n*a*t*c*h there but the filter kicked it, funny ***
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Babe, I have to believe that the Giants' defensive front--one of the best in the NFL that year--had a lot more to do with the Pats letting them stay in the game than the Pats and BB "reading their press clippings" did.

    Truth is, they were a 10-6 team with 13-3 talent (much like 2010's Green Bay team), and once they got into the playoffs they began playing up to that level. They shutdown the #1, #2 (Dallas) and #3 (Green Bay) offenses in the NFL during that post-season run.

    The Pats just ran into a red-hot defense that put together its best effort of the season on that day--and it still took the flukiest play in NFL history (aside from "The Immaculate Reception" maybe) to beat them in the final 60 seconds.



     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections :      Every GM, including Bill Polian, makes mistakes on occasion. BB's biggest boners were: 1.) The decision to trade their 52nd and 75th overall picks to move up to #36, and select WR Chad Jackson; 2.) Passing up OLB Clay Matthews (second to the Jackson move because the Pats were able to get Rob Gronkowski do to this move); 3.) The decision to let Asante Samuel go prove costly...leading to the signing of CB Leigh Bodden, and the waste of high draft selections on CBs Terrence Wheatley, and Darius Butler. The Pats would have been better off paying A$ante.    4.) The FA signing of LB Monty Beisel. What a stiff he was. 5.) His stubbornness on paying PK Adam Vinatieri made no sense to me...and Vinatieri helped the Colts win their lone SB, in 2006; 6.) Trading a 3rd round pick (95th overall), for "The Human Torch", Duane Starks. Not only was the loss of the pick bad, but Starks played so poorly that season that he made Earthwind Moreland look like the second coming of Dick "Night Train" Lane; 7.) The selection of TE Benjamin Watson with the 32nd overall pick in 2004; 8.) The selection of RB Laurence Maroney at 21 overall in 2006 (after all, the Pats did get some production out of him)...and WR Deion Branch back; 9.) Miscasting LB/DE Adalius Thomas as an ILB;  10.) The selection of safety Brandon Meriweather at 24 overall in 2007.      BUT NOW...HIS BEST: 1.) Selecting DE Richard Seymour over WR David Terrell, and others, as the media and fans wanted; 2.) His decision to play Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe; 3.) The decision to trade his 19th overall pick in the 2003 draft...and then using the picks obtained to select DB Eugene Wilson, and NT Vince Wilfolk; 4.) His decision to release Lawyer Milloy in 2003 was correct...and established himself as the undisputed leader of the franchise;    5.) Grand larceny committed against the Pittsburgh Steelers with the signing of UFA, Mike Vrabel; 6.) The trade made with the 49ers in 2007, which ended up netting the Patriots Randy Moss, and Jarod Mayo; 7.) The selection of OG Logan Mankins with the 32nd overall pick in 2005; 8.) Trading a 2nd and 7th round pick in 2007 to Miami to bring aboard RFA, Wes Welker; 9.) Selection of CB Devin McCourty with 27th pick in 2010;  10.) Trading Drew Bledsoe in 2002 for Buffalo's #1 draft choice in 2003...which was used to select DE Ty Warren. 11.) Selection of USC backup QB Matt Cassel with a 7th round pick in 2007. Cassel would win 11 games for BB in 2008...and be traded for the 34th overall selection of the 2009 draft (Patrick Chung).         Sorry, Babe...but it seems that BB's successes far outweigh his failures. 
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Love all of the good moves you've posted, but you know what my favorite one might have been?

    Over the 2003 draft weekend, I believe, BB traded an extra 3rd round pick acquired from the Saints in the Tebucky Jones deal to Miami. The Dolphins wanted the pick badly because they did not have any picks in the first three rounds that year, as they were still paying the freight for the 2002 trade which brought Ricky Williams to Miami.

    In exchange for the Pats' extra 3rd rounder in '03, Miami gave the Pats their 2004 second rounder; that second rounder was later shipped to Cincinnati during the 2004 offseason for Corey Dillon, who went on to have a great season as the Pats won their third Super Bowl.

    It's my favorite deal because the second rounder used to acquire Dillon was basically acquired from a division rival in exchange for the pick BB got for trading away Tebucky Jones, who was already past whatever prime he had in NE. 

    I love tweaking Dolphins fans that I know with that little tidbit.
     
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