Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    The real expectation is still to win the Super Bowl. I get that Babe is pi--ed that we haven't won it in awhile. My point was that to rebuild on the fly and win your division is not easy. All dynasties have tremendous difficulty doing this (Steelers, Cowboys, Colts, and 49ers). Belichick has done a very good job, however, he has failed to win in the playoffs recently. So some fans think its time to pile on Belichick for no reason other than not winning a Super Bowl. My response to that is take your pink Sox hat elsewhere. No league is has more obstacles to overcome to attain a championship than the NFL. As previously stated, the rules are specifically geared to (cap, schedule, draft) prevent any one team from completely dominating.

    Name one team in the AFC that has done a better job rebuilding than the Pats (the Steelers era ends with Brister and begins with Rapistburger), the Colts s--ked for years until Manning showed up, every year we hear about how much talent the Chargers have and every year they win nothing. The Jets use a patch-work of FAs and draftees and have won nothing. It simply is not easy to win the SB every year. Yet some morons think it's possible (next to  impossible with a cap and scheduling) to win every year, when even winning your division is tough. Made tougher by having a young team.

    Rusty is right. There are plenty of organizations that would love to have a team of the Patriots caliber in their town it' just not easy to get to that level.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Who wouldn't drool at the prospect of having the greatest QB ever? The names you are looking for I believe are: McGinist, Bruschi, Law, Johnson, Milloy, Tebucky Jones, Troy Brown, Kevin Faulk, Vinatieri, Woody and Rutledge.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe, I don't believe you're a Jets troll, and I believe that you love the Pats, but even if Brady is the greatest QB ever, every single other QB who has previously held that unofficial title played many more championship-less years in the NFL than championship-winning years. Montana played from 1979-1994, and won four championships. Unitas played from the mid-50s through the early 70s, and won three championships. Bart Starr won five titles in a little more than a decade in Green Bay, which is great, but he still played more years without winning a title than he played years winning a title.

    If Brady plays five more years and the Pats can pull off two more titles in that timeframe, that will give him five titles in about 16 years---that puts him way ahead of the curve, quite frankly.

    What's my point?

    My point is that even with a franchise QB--the greatest QB ever, even--it's hard to win championships, and it's ALWAYS been hard to win championships. Nowadays, it's even harder.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Yes, we're all sick and tired of no pass rush. I agree 100% with Babe on that. I do hope that perhaps the pass rushing talent is already on the roster and that it just needs a little more time to develop. There's also free agency after the lockout lifts. Perhaps some help will come from there. I agree with Babe about the pass rush, but he does seem to be using that apparent shortcoming to tar BB's entire tenure in NE as nothing but a product of getting "lucky" with a 6th round pick in 2000. That seems a bit odd to me.
    Posted by hardright


    Well BB has made the playoffs 1 in 7 tries without Brady.

    Yet he has made it 9 out of 10 with him.

    That tells the story pretty plainly.



     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections :      Give the guy a break, Your Majesty. He's just frustrated over those three straight horrible losses...the gut-wrenching loss to Goober and the Giants, ruining the perfect season....the Baltimore blow-out in Foxboro, and the embarrassing debacle against the hated Jets. Patriots' teams of "01-04 never used to lose big games, like the last three.      What Babe doesn't seem to accept is that, since 2008, the Pats have been rebuilding, on the fly. I'm encouraged, despite those three recent losses. The Pats are younger, and getting better.  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I am hopeful too TP. Problem is, poor decisions caused the need to rebuild.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : yes, Faulk and Brown, too.  Of course. I mentioned #4. Woody was drafted under BB. Tebucky Jones?  Guy was flawed beyond belief.  In fact, BB fleeced the Saints after tagging him. 3rd rd pick in 2003 and 4th rder in 2004. Just by getting picks to get Jones's contract off the books was a great move. Another example of BB turning a supposed asset into a strong return. Rod Rutledge? Really, Babe? You're pulling the Rod Rutledge card on me?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Woody played in 1999.

    I wasn't saying all those guys were great players. But they did see the field a lot from 2001. Most of them were key guys though.


     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]WHat? Pro Bowlers playing well in a 3-4 into another SB (SB 42) means it was a series of "poor decisions"? Even Pats haters wouldn't make that premise.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Well, if you are 0 for the last 6 despite the best QB ever, what did you have, good decisions?
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]And what about Chuck Noll?   How did he do in the 1980s without Bradshaw? IN the 1980s, they made it in 1982, '83, '84 and '89.   Not so good without Bradshaw was he? I mean, what a stupid argument.   He's starting to sound like Phat Rex.  Unreal. "The Steelers suffered a rash of injuries in the 1980 season and missed the playoffs with a 9–7 record. The 1981 season was no better, with an 8–8 showing. The team was then hit with the retirements of all their key players from the Super Bowl years. "Mean" Joe Greene retired after the 1981 season , Lynn Swann and Jack Ham after 1982 's playoff berth, Terry Bradshaw and Mel Blount after 1983 's divisional championship, and Jack Lambert after 1984 's AFC Championship Game appearance. After those retirements, the franchise skidded to its first losing seasons since 1971. Though still competitive, the Steelers would not finish above .500 in 1985 , 1986 , and 1988 . In 1987 , the year of the players' strike , the Steelers finished with a record of 8–7, but missed the playoffs. In 1989 , they would reach the second round of the playoffs on the strength of Merrill Hoge and Rod Woodson before narrowly missing the playoffs in each of the next two seasons."   Belichick is SUPERIOR to this in the cap era!
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    King, no coaches are successful without great players. Look at Walsh and see his success track exactly along with the big stars. And when Walsh went away the Niners won some more when Young stepped in. Paul Brown did squat without Graham and Jim Brown.

    And BB did squat without Brady.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Yes, we're all sick and tired of no pass rush. I agree 100% with Babe on that. I do hope that perhaps the pass rushing talent is already on the roster and that it just needs a little more time to develop. There's also free agency after the lockout lifts. Perhaps some help will come from there. I agree with Babe about the pass rush, but he does seem to be using that apparent shortcoming to tar BB's entire tenure in NE as nothing but a product of getting "lucky" with a 6th round pick in 2000. That seems a bit odd to me. Posted by hardright Well BB has made the playoffs 1 in 7 tries without Brady. Yet he has made it 9 out of 10 with him. That tells the story pretty plainly.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    It's the NFL.

    You need a QB to win consistently in the NFL.

    This has always been true.

    Landry's Cowboys didn't start winning titles until he axed Morton midway through the '71 season and decided to go with Staubach.

    Cowher's (and Tomlin's) Steelers didn't start winning SBs until Big Ben was drafted.

    Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys don't win those SBs without Aikman at the helm of that offense--imagine if JJ's University of Miami fixation won out and he'd chosen to keep Steve Walsh and trade Aikman instead? Cowboys fans don't even want to contemplate that scenario.

    Walsh won with Montana--he didn't win with Steve DeBerg before that.

    Lombardi had Starr, and believe me, GB doesn't win five championships with Zeke Bratkowski taking the snaps at QB all of those years.

    The 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs are exceptions to the rule, and they're usually just "one year wonder" types of exceptions.

    You have to have at least above-average QB play to win in the NFL.  That's always been the case.

    BB gets a bum rap about his Cleveland days if you ask me. Kosar was about 30 going on 50 when BB got there. His body was all dinged up and he was nearing the end. BB wasn't able to acquire a decent QB until Testaverde came along in '93, I believe. In 1994 they went 11-5 and made the playoffs and they were 3-1 or 4-1 (can't remember) in 1995 before the "we're moving to Baltimore" axe fell in October...that was kind of a buzzkill for the players. 

    But regardless, if your point is that BB isn't good at his job(s) unless he's getting good QB play, then yes, you're correct. That's also true of just about every other head coach and/or GM in NFL history.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Babe, I don't believe you're a Jets troll, and I believe that you love the Pats, but even if Brady is the greatest QB ever, every single other QB who has previously held that unofficial title played many more championship-less years in the NFL than championship-winning years. Montana played from 1979-1994, and won four championships. Unitas played from the mid-50s through the early 70s, and won three championships. Bart Starr won five titles in a little more than a decade in Green Bay, which is great, but he still played more years without winning a title than he played years winning a title. If Brady plays five more years and the Pats can pull off two more titles in that timeframe, that will give him five titles in about 16 years---that puts him way ahead of the curve, quite frankly. What's my point? My point is that even with a franchise QB--the greatest QB ever, even--it's hard to win championships, and it's ALWAYS been hard to win championships. Nowadays, it's even harder.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    If Brady wins 2 more SBs before he retires I will forgive BB for his blunders, lol.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : It's the NFL. You need a QB to win consistently in the NFL. This has always been true. Landry's Cowboys didn't start winning titles until he axed Morton midway through the '71 season and decided to go with Staubach. Cowher's (and Tomlin's) Steelers didn't start winning SBs until Big Ben was drafted. Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys don't win those SBs without Aikman at the helm of that offense--imagine if JJ's University of Miami fixation won out and he'd chosen to keep Steve Walsh and trade Aikman instead? Cowboys fans don't even want to contemplate that scenario. Walsh won with Montana--he didn't win with Steve DeBerg before that. Lombardi had Starr, and believe me, GB doesn't win five championships with Zeke Bratkowski taking the snaps at QB all of those years. The 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs are exceptions to the rule, and they're usually just "one year wonder" types of exceptions. You have to have at least above-average QB play to win in the NFL.  That's always been the case. BB gets a bum rap about his Cleveland days if you ask me. Kosar was about 30 going on 50 when BB got there. His body was all dinged up and he was nearing the end. BB wasn't able to acquire a decent QB until Testaverde came along in '93, I believe. In 1994 they went 11-5 and made the playoffs and they were 3-1 or 4-1 (can't remember) in 1995 before the "we're moving to Baltimore" axe fell in October...that was kind of a buzzkill for the players.  But regardless, if your point is that BB isn't good at his job(s) unless he's getting good QB play, then yes, you're correct. That's also true of just about every other head coach and/or GM in NFL history.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    My point is BB has not done a good enough job in the last six years to win a SB despite having a HOF QB.

    That is not true about the guys running the other teams that have won a SB in the last 6 years.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]And your point is? BB would be the first to tell you Brady has made him look good.   But, what did BB do before being a head coach? Two rings and a Def Coordinator. He also cleaned up the Browns organization as GM at the dawn of the cap era. How about this? They're both great in their current roles??!!
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Brady is a great QB. BB is a great coach. BB is an average GM.

    (But you can have the great coach, I'll take the great QB)
     
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    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : If Brady wins 2 more SBs before he retires I will forgive BB for his blunders, lol.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    OK, I think you've just given "The King" his signature line going forwardSealed
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Considering they have the best winning% of any team since 2005, their last SB year, yes. GREAT DECISIONS 2007 a SB appearance Stop acting like they weren't a minute away from a title, save for a duck lobbed into no man's land like we are playing backyard football. You're act is tiring. I have no idea why you are given any credit on this topic.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I'm given credit because the facts say I'm correct.

    I was screaming at the screen the whole game saying, "why are you letting these chumps stay in the game?". And then the fluke beat them. That's what can happen when you screw around most of the game reading your press clippings.  A bad break just might ***steal*** the greatest season in history away from you.

    We DESERVED to lose that game.


    *** I tried to use the word s*n*a*t*c*h there but the filter kicked it, funny ***
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I'm given credit because the facts say I'm correct. I was screaming at the screen the whole game saying, "why are you letting these chumps stay in the game?". And then the fluke beat them. That's what can happen when you screw around most of the game reading your press clippings.  A bad break just might ***steal***l the greatest season in history away from you. We DESERVED to lose that game. *** I tried to use the word s*n*a*t*c*h there but the filter kicked it, funny ***
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe, I have to believe that the Giants' defensive front--one of the best in the NFL that year--had a lot more to do with the Pats letting them stay in the game than the Pats and BB "reading their press clippings" did.

    Truth is, they were a 10-6 team with 13-3 talent (much like 2010's Green Bay team), and once they got into the playoffs they began playing up to that level. They shutdown the #1, #2 (Dallas) and #3 (Green Bay) offenses in the NFL during that post-season run.

    The Pats just ran into a red-hot defense that put together its best effort of the season on that day--and it still took the flukiest play in NFL history (aside from "The Immaculate Reception" maybe) to beat them in the final 60 seconds.



     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I have said BB is a good trader TP. It is his drafting and FA signings that have not been good enough apparently.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Every GM, including Bill Polian, makes mistakes on occasion. BB's biggest boners were:

    1.) The decision to trade their 52nd and 75th overall picks to move up to #36, and select WR Chad Jackson;

    2.) Passing up OLB Clay Matthews (second to the Jackson move because the Pats were able to get Rob Gronkowski do to this move);

    3.) The decision to let Asante Samuel go prove costly...leading to the signing of CB Leigh Bodden, and the waste of high draft selections on CBs Terrence Wheatley, and Darius Butler. The Pats would have been better off paying A$ante.   

    4.) The FA signing of LB Monty Beisel. What a stiff he was.

    5.) His stubbornness on paying PK Adam Vinatieri made no sense to me...and Vinatieri helped the Colts win their lone SB, in 2006;

    6.) Trading a 3rd round pick (95th overall), for "The Human Torch", Duane Starks. Not only was the loss of the pick bad, but Starks played so poorly that season that he made Earthwind Moreland look like the second coming of Dick "Night Train" Lane;

    7.) The selection of TE Benjamin Watson with the 32nd overall pick in 2004;

    8.) The selection of RB Laurence Maroney at 21 overall in 2006 (after all, the Pats did get some production out of him)...and WR Deion Branch back;

    9.) Miscasting LB/DE Adalius Thomas as an ILB; 

    10.) The selection of safety Brandon Meriweather at 24 overall in 2007.

         BUT NOW...HIS BEST:

    1.) Selecting DE Richard Seymour over WR David Terrell, and others, as the media and fans wanted;

    2.) His decision to play Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe;

    3.) The decision to trade his 19th overall pick in the 2003 draft...and then using the picks obtained to select DB Eugene Wilson, and NT Vince Wilfolk;

    4.) His decision to release Lawyer Milloy in 2003 was correct...and established himself as the undisputed leader of the franchise;   

    5.) Grand larceny committed against the Pittsburgh Steelers with the signing of UFA, Mike Vrabel;

    6.) The trade made with the 49ers in 2007, which ended up netting the Patriots Randy Moss, and Jarod Mayo;

    7.) The selection of OG Logan Mankins with the 32nd overall pick in 2005;

    8.) Trading a 2nd and 7th round pick in 2007 to Miami to bring aboard RFA, Wes Welker;

    9.) Selection of CB Devin McCourty with 27th pick in 2010; 

    10.) Trading Drew Bledsoe in 2002 for Buffalo's #1 draft choice in 2003...which was used to select DE Ty Warren.

    11.) Selection of USC backup QB Matt Cassel with a 7th round pick in 2007. Cassel would win 11 games for BB in 2008...and be traded for the 34th overall selection of the 2009 draft (Patrick Chung).   

         Sorry, Babe...but it seems that BB's successes far outweigh his failures. 
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections :      Every GM, including Bill Polian, makes mistakes on occasion. BB's biggest boners were: 1.) The decision to trade their 52nd and 75th overall picks to move up to #36, and select WR Chad Jackson; 2.) Passing up OLB Clay Matthews (second to the Jackson move because the Pats were able to get Rob Gronkowski do to this move); 3.) The decision to let Asante Samuel go prove costly...leading to the signing of CB Leigh Bodden, and the waste of high draft selections on CBs Terrence Wheatley, and Darius Butler. The Pats would have been better off paying A$ante.    4.) The FA signing of LB Monty Beisel. What a stiff he was. 5.) His stubbornness on paying PK Adam Vinatieri made no sense to me...and Vinatieri helped the Colts win their lone SB, in 2006; 6.) Trading a 3rd round pick (95th overall), for "The Human Torch", Duane Starks. Not only was the loss of the pick bad, but Starks played so poorly that season that he made Earthwind Moreland look like the second coming of Dick "Night Train" Lane; 7.) The selection of TE Benjamin Watson with the 32nd overall pick in 2004; 8.) The selection of RB Laurence Maroney at 21 overall in 2006 (after all, the Pats did get some production out of him)...and WR Deion Branch back; 9.) Miscasting LB/DE Adalius Thomas as an ILB;  10.) The selection of safety Brandon Meriweather at 24 overall in 2007.      BUT NOW...HIS BEST: 1.) Selecting DE Richard Seymour over WR David Terrell, and others, as the media and fans wanted; 2.) His decision to play Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe; 3.) The decision to trade his 19th overall pick in the 2003 draft...and then using the picks obtained to select DB Eugene Wilson, and NT Vince Wilfolk; 4.) His decision to release Lawyer Milloy in 2003 was correct...and established himself as the undisputed leader of the franchise;    5.) Grand larceny committed against the Pittsburgh Steelers with the signing of UFA, Mike Vrabel; 6.) The trade made with the 49ers in 2007, which ended up netting the Patriots Randy Moss, and Jarod Mayo; 7.) The selection of OG Logan Mankins with the 32nd overall pick in 2005; 8.) Trading a 2nd and 7th round pick in 2007 to Miami to bring aboard RFA, Wes Welker; 9.) Selection of CB Devin McCourty with 27th pick in 2010;  10.) Trading Drew Bledsoe in 2002 for Buffalo's #1 draft choice in 2003...which was used to select DE Ty Warren. 11.) Selection of USC backup QB Matt Cassel with a 7th round pick in 2007. Cassel would win 11 games for BB in 2008...and be traded for the 34th overall selection of the 2009 draft (Patrick Chung).         Sorry, Babe...but it seems that BB's successes far outweigh his failures. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Love all of the good moves you've posted, but you know what my favorite one might have been?

    Over the 2003 draft weekend, I believe, BB traded an extra 3rd round pick acquired from the Saints in the Tebucky Jones deal to Miami. The Dolphins wanted the pick badly because they did not have any picks in the first three rounds that year, as they were still paying the freight for the 2002 trade which brought Ricky Williams to Miami.

    In exchange for the Pats' extra 3rd rounder in '03, Miami gave the Pats their 2004 second rounder; that second rounder was later shipped to Cincinnati during the 2004 offseason for Corey Dillon, who went on to have a great season as the Pats won their third Super Bowl.

    It's my favorite deal because the second rounder used to acquire Dillon was basically acquired from a division rival in exchange for the pick BB got for trading away Tebucky Jones, who was already past whatever prime he had in NE. 

    I love tweaking Dolphins fans that I know with that little tidbit.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : Babe, I have to believe that the Giants' defensive front--one of the best in the NFL that year--had a lot more to do with the Pats letting them stay in the game than the Pats and BB "reading their press clippings" did. Truth is, they were a 10-6 team with 13-3 talent (much like 2010's Green Bay team), and once they got into the playoffs they began playing up to that level. They shutdown the #1, #2 (Dallas) and #3 (Green Bay) offenses in the NFL during that post-season run. The Pats just ran into a red-hot defense that put together its best effort of the season on that day--and it still took the flukiest play in NFL history (aside from "The Immaculate Reception" maybe) to beat them in the final 60 seconds.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    I think we all know how badly the Pat's O-line played in that game. It was a very good Giant's D that was on top of their game in the playoffs, but poor OL play by the Pats severely blunted the Pat's big weapon, Brady.

    The Giants had 3 sacks in 3 previous playoff games yet got 5 that day. And Brady was "hit" on over half his passes that day.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    BUT NOW...HIS BEST:


     1.) Selecting DE Richard Seymour over WR David Terrell, and others, as the media and fans wanted;


    Fans and media always like the flashy WR or RB. You win with great QB and defense in this league these days. Seymour played great through his rookie contract, but became a fraction of his former self once he got his money through the holdout. It was a great pick in the sense that it supercharged the D-line in the dynasty years. Overall it was merely a good pick, not great.



     2.) His decision to play Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe;

    No brainer. Brady was winning, Bledsoe was 5-11 the year before. Brady earned his spot on the team, earned the start when Bledsoe was hurt and earned keeping the job by winning.

    3.) The decision to trade his 19th overall pick in the 2003 draft...and then using the picks obtained to select DB Eugene Wilson, and NT Vince Wilfolk;

    Wilfork was a good pick, and overall BB has been a good trader.



     4.) His decision to release Lawyer Milloy in 2003 was correct...and established himself as the undisputed leader of the franchise;

    Milloy was a money issue whose play was deteriorating.


        5.) Grand larceny committed against the Pittsburgh Steelers with the signing of UFA, Mike Vrabel;

    Good signing obviously. I will give you Beisel and Brown in answer to that.



     6.) The trade made with the 49ers in 2007, which ended up netting the Patriots Randy Moss, and Jarod Mayo;

    Yup, good trader. Let's not forget the #1 we lost because of BB's boneheaded spygate scandal.


     7.) The selection of OG Logan Mankins with the 32nd overall pick in 2005;

    Good pick, but where was he in the '07 SB? And he has turned out to be a jerk.


     8.) Trading a 2nd and 7th round pick in 2007 to Miami to bring aboard RFA, Wes Welker;

    Yup, good trader.


     9.) Selection of CB Devin McCourty with 27th pick in 2010;

    Yup, good pick so far.


      10.) Trading Drew Bledsoe in 2002 for Buffalo's #1 draft choice in 2003...which was used to select DE Ty Warren.

    Again, good trader, but I'm not going to agree Warren was a great pick at #13 overall based on his results.





     11.) Selection of USC backup QB Matt Cassel with a 7th round pick in 2007. Cassel would win 11 games for BB in 2008...and be traded for the 34th overall selection of the 2009 draft (Patrick Chung).

    Cassel benifited from a weak schedule and the jury is still way out on Chung.


     Sorry, Babe...but it seems that BB's successes far outweigh his failures.

    Not really. Average GM. Average drafting. Below average FA signer. Good trader.
     
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]BUT NOW...HIS BEST:  1.) Selecting DE Richard Seymour over WR David Terrell, and others, as the media and fans wanted; Fans and media always like the flashy WR or RB. You win with great QB and defense in this league these days. Seymour played great through his rookie contract, but became a fraction of his former self once he got his money through the holdout. It was a great pick in the sense that it supercharged the D-line in the dynasty years. Overall it was merely a good pick, not great.
     
    RESPONSE: Please stop. Seymour is at least a border line Hall of Famer.

    2.) His decision to play Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe; No brainer. Brady was winning, Bledsoe was 5-11 the year before. Brady earned his spot on the team, earned the start when Bledsoe was hurt and earned keeping the job by winning.
     
    RESPONSE: As I recall it, many people thought that Bledsoe should get his job back when he regained his health. Many more thought that the Pats had a better chance of beating the Rams in the SB with Bledsoe starting, rather than Brady...who was playing on a somewhat gimpy ankle.

    3.) The decision to trade his 19th overall pick in the 2003 draft...and then using the picks obtained to select DB Eugene Wilson, and NT Vince Wilfolk; Wilfork was a good pick, and overall BB has been a good trader.
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed.

     4.) His decision to release Lawyer Milloy in 2003 was correct...and established himself as the undisputed leader of the franchise; Milloy was a money issue whose play was deteriorating.
     
    RESPONSE: True...but don't you remember all the heat BB took from his players and the media for this move...especially after Milloy went to Buffalo, and the Bills crushed the Pats, 31-0, in game one? Don't you agree that his decision to cut Milloy, and how BB handled it, entrenched his position as the man in charge of the Patriots?

        5.) Grand larceny committed against the Pittsburgh Steelers with the signing of UFA, Mike Vrabel; Good signing obviously. I will give you Beisel and Brown in answer to that.

    RESPONSE: If you read my previous post above, you would see that I included the Beisel signing as one of BB's boners. But, the discussion here centers only on his good moves. The signing of Vrabel was a great one. You really don't want to match good move against bad. I've left out so many good ones, such as the acquisition of RBs Corey Dillon, Danny Woodhead, and Antwain Smith...DTsTed Washington, Keith Traylor, and Mike Wright, WRs Jabar Gaffney, and David Patten, not to mention getting WR David Givens with a 7th round pick...and the salvaging of Rodney Harrison from the free ageny scrap-heap.   

     6.) The trade made with the 49ers in 2007, which ended up netting the Patriots Randy Moss, and Jarod Mayo; Yup, good trader. Let's not forget the #1 we lost because of BB's boneheaded spygate scandal.
     
    RESPONSE: Desperation. You're starting to sound like UD6. Spygate was a NY media driven, manufactured scandal...where that tool of a Commissioner, Roger "Jets" Goodell...caved to media pressure, and punished the Patriots in an unprecedented manner. No one could have forseen such a harsh punishment, for such a relatively minor infraction. 

     7.) The selection of OG Logan Mankins with the 32nd overall pick in 2005; Good pick, but where was he in the '07 SB? And he has turned out to be a jerk .
     
    RESPONSE: Using this twisted logic, than Tom Brady sucks too...because he had a bad playoff game against the Jets. I don't think Mankins is a jerk. I do think that he followed some bad advise from his agent...and that Bob Kraft was unreasonable with him in demanding that Mankins apologize several different times, and in several different ways. I see Mankins and the Pats getting a long term deal done, fairly soon.  

    8.) Trading a 2nd and 7th round pick in 2007 to Miami to bring aboard RFA, Wes Welker; Yup, good trader.
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed.

     9.) Selection of CB Devin McCourty with 27th pick in 2010; Yup, good pick so far.
     
    RESPONSE: But for Suh, McCourty was the defensive rookie of the year.

      10.) Trading Drew Bledsoe in 2002 for Buffalo's #1 draft choice in 2003...which was used to select DE Ty Warren. Again, good trader, but I'm not going to agree Warren was a great pick at #13 overall based on his results.
     
    RESPONSE: Warren has been a very solid player, until injuries caught up with him.

    11.) Selection of USC backup QB Matt Cassel with a 7th round pick in 2007. Cassel would win 11 games for BB in 2008...and be traded for the 34th overall selection of the 2009 draft (Patrick Chung). Cassel benifited from a weak schedule and the jury is still way out on Chung.
     
    RESPONSE: Oh...so Cassel suks? Didn't he just lead the Chiefs to the AFC West title?

    Sorry, Babe...but it seems that BB's successes far outweigh his failures. Not really. Average GM. Average drafting. Below average FA signer. Good trader.
     
    RESPONSE: You're being ridiculous. As I've easily demonstrated above, BB has had more than his fair share of success with the draft, and through free agency. If you wish to call the signings of Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Jabar Gaffney, Danny Woodhead, BJGE, Antwain Smith, David Patten, Christian Fauria, Junior Seau, Anthony Pleasant, Bobby Hamilton, Larry Izzo, Bryan Cox, Joe Andruzzi, Steven Neal, Tully Banta Cain, Gary Guyton, Gerard Warren, Kyle Arrington, Rob Ninkovich, Mike Wright, and Eric Moore "below average"...so be it.  
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     

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