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Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    Oh come on.  Beisel and Brown were last minute moves because of Bruschi's stroke and his delay in coming back.  Again, you don't just have 3-4 Front 7 people falling off trees, Babe. Please learn a bit about the NFL elsewhere before making silly comments.  CHad Brown had some 3-4 experience but just didn't care enough to want to work hard enough, apparently. He was done. And enough with this "boneheaded Spygate scandal" line.  It was a witch hunt and everyone knows it. The punishment was CLEARLY Draconian in nature and Goodell never punished the Jets in 2006 or any other team who also was in violation, according to him. Real Pats fans know EXACTLY what went down with that situation.  Maybe you need to read up, Babe. A new sheriff in town trying to put his foot down has nothing to do with Belichick being a bonehead. We've seen far more egregious IN GAME activity go on that went either unpunished or the team was penalized far less.  Goodell taking away NE's 2008 1st rd pick was pressure from jealous teams/owners/GMs, the media and even fans who wanted blood. Period. Once that tape leaked, the media had a field day and Goodell buckled showing a lack of leadership and control/understanding of what the Jets were doing. Or, he was in on it and didn't care.   Besides, a dominant team in his league is bad for business, if you know what I mean.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing

    Salary cap cheating by Denver = 3rd round pick and a fine.

    Stealing signals with a video camera instead of binoculars (like everyone else did it, and continues to do it today) = 1st round pick and a record fine for the head coach.

    That's pretty much all you need to know about how "serious" the whole Spygate nonsense was.

    The Pats and their hated head coach were forced to fork over a pound of flesh to make the bloodthirsty lions in the media and the rest of the league happy--and they also had to keep their mouths shut about what they (BB) know has gone on, and continues to go on, in the NFL when it comes to "chicanery," on and off the field. And let's be honest: the severity of the punishment was also reflective of Goodell's personal anger towards BB for BB ignoring his memo--BB was wrong to do that, of course, but Goodell's severe overpunishment had more to do with the memo being ignored than with the violation of an extremely obscure (some would say foolish) rule.

    I've always believed that had the whole thing happened in 2006, before Goodell had already embarked on his crusade to severely suspend and fine every player in the league who even looked as though he may have done something wrong off the field, then the  outcry for him to "do something" about the video camera incident would have been more muted; and the punishment would have fit the crime (i.e.--maybe a $50K fine and a 4th round pick; not the severe, ludicrous overpunishment that was actually handed down).

    And, of course, had BB played nice with the media all those years leading up to Spygate, the coverage of the whole thing would have been much more muted as well, and it certainly wouldn't have dragged on for the entire season, and into the following offseason. But the media had to exact "revenge" on BB, and very few entities on this planet know how to--and have the power to--exact revenge on an "enemy" as well as the media.
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    This will make Babe's day....

    On, the new website in which Bill Simmons serves as editor-in-chief, writer Bill Barnwell runs a reverse play against the NFL Network's recent Top 100 players poll. 

    "Who cares if somebody puts Peyton Manning ahead of Tom Brady or vice versa? They're both great. A much more interesting use of the players' time would have been to list the most worthless players in the NFL,". Barnwell writes. "So, here we go … This list of the 25 worst players in the league accounts for playing time, expectations, and salary. It focuses on the 2010 season ..." 

    Two players with Patriots ties appear on the list. 

    Running back Laurence Maroney, the team's first-round pick in 2006, makes the cut at 25. 

    "Maroney spent most of his time in New England on the training table or working on his dreads, but the Broncos still dealt a fourth-round pick (getting a sixth-rounder in return) for a guy who promptly gained 74 yards on 36 carries," Barnwell writes. "Then he got arrested for marijuana possession after a Rick Ross concert, which would only have been worse if Rick Ross actually made the arrest." 

    Cornerback Darius Butler ranks 10th

    "Butler began the season as a starter by allowing teams to go 26-of-35 for 253 yards in two games against him (plus two pass interference calls)," Barnwell writes. "He got benched and came in for three plays the following game, allowing a completion and missing a tackle before disappearing again. It took him six weeks to get any playing time after that."
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    Of course. That's why in 2006, when the Jets were supposedly no in correct form filming in NE, nothing happened. It's also why, no NFL fan had ever heard of anything being done about such a violation, nor did any team care. Everything you said above is complete fact.   We'll never see a witch hunt like that again as long as we live.  I am convinced of that.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing

    King, I just pray, and PRAY HARD, that when BB retires he finally pens the ultimate "tell all" about his career in the NFL, and then dishes ALL of the dirt he has on other teams and what they've done--and have continued to do since 2007--that was "illegal." (I feel dirty even using that term, because in the end it's just what football teams do--most if not all of them.)

    It's not like BB to talk about stuff like that, and he probably doesn't even care at this point because he knows that what he was doing was quite common, and an accepted practice (and he didn't think it up himself either--he had to have learned it from someone)--before Red Light Goodell came along and decided that he had to make a big deal out of it. But I just wish that some day BB changes his tune and lets it all hang out in print. It will be one fascinating, illuminating read.
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Anyone who says BB is bad at drafting is clueless...  If you had said average (frugal) at signing free agents I might have agreed but we've built this decade of dominance with draft picks.  Richard Seymour was the best Defensive lineman in the league for a long time (All Pro Team) and still dominates on a crappy Raider's team, don't make yourself sound silly by calling him average...

    The draft is part luck, how do you measure a man's heart?  It seems like some people here are portraying themselves as some kind of draft savants because they now have the benefit of hindsight, where were these people on draft day, I didn't see them posting their predictions.

    BB got the best Offensive Tackle in the draft, the best "large" cover Corner in the draft, the best QB prospect in the draft, the best blocking Tight End (who can also long snap) in the draft, possibly the best 3rd down back in the draft as well as an offensive lineman who, if he can beat cancer, will be a brutally dominating Guard as well as a pile driver of a runner from Auburn.  Anyone who can say with a straight face that we didn't have a good draft or that BB can't handle a draft is a jackhole.

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    If there is one thing I can agree on with Babe it's about Spygate.  BB forgot that he's on the receiving end of that stick when it comes to dealing with Goodell.  It show BB's ego is a bit inflated but what can you say about Goodell's? 

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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : I have no doubt I know as much or more than you about  spygate. It wasn't a wich hunt. It was blatant stupidity on the part of the genius. Of course the punishment was too much. They should have punished the idiot that did it, not the team.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    Babe, I wouldn't go so far as to call BB blatantly stupid for not following the memo.

    First of all, I've heard from some quarters that the Pats' hierarchy didn't even realize that what they were doing was deemed "illegal," even after reading the memo, because the rule really IS that confusing and unclear. Granted, that's no excuse for not picking up the phone, calling New York, and asking Anderson or even Goodell himself just exactly what the memo meant going forward. THAT was the stupid action IMO--find out exactly what the NFL is trying to say first, before you go ahead and continue with the filming practice.

    Second, Bill Belichick has been in the NFL since 1975. From 1975-2006, he had seen dozens, if not more teams engage in this type of practice--and worse practices, for that matter. His mentor in New York, Bill Parcells, no doubt engaged in that same type of behavior, as did former division rivals (in both the NFC East and AFC East) like Jimmy Johnson. Not a single time from 1975-2006 did Bill Belichick ever witness any of those coaches get reprimanded or fined, or otherwise disciplined for that behavior.

    Moreover, none of those coaches were ever turned in by a rival--even a bitter rival--when they were "caught" engaging in that practice. The "code" among coaches was to tell each other to knock it off, and then move on. Only Mangini, who had an intense desire to embarrass BB, felt it was necessary to turn him in to the NFL for the filming practices.

    Trust me, if BB had ever imagined that a misdemeanor rules violation like that would be turned into Watergate and the Black Sox scandal all rolled into one, he never would have continued doing it.

    I'm sure that he was shocked when first Goodell, and then the media, made such a big deal out of such a minor issue.
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    I always felt the dead giveaway with the Walsh tapes was the one that had him filming across from the Pitt sideline, during the AFC title game in 2001. If you have a brain, which we know Trey Wingo, Schlereth  and Cris Carter don't or purposely didn't that day, it's pretty obvious that's a discrepancy with the claim against NE. Sunny day, road stadium, clealry given that spot by Steelers officials.  Why?  If it was not legal to have a shot across the field, why did Pitt allow it? Hmmm. I also thought it was interesting, that AFTER NE won their 2001 SB, it was only then did their road filming showcase Walsh/whoever else they employed, on the sidelines and not in a spot similar to what we saw on the tape of the 2001 AFC title game. That right there proves Belichick's statements were true and consistent. Could it be, that some teams didn't want to have the visiting team filming the game, because they saw it as a homefield advatnage of their own, so they never provided the location like they are supposed to? Hmmm. Sort of smells like gamesmanship to me. Gamesmanship that the Jets decided to use to an adavantage by smearing NE, as a way to try to take them down as they build a new stadium and need to show movement to succcess. Hmmmm.  Hmmm. If I am SD, for example, a playoff type team in 2002, maybe I don't want to be so nice to the defending SB champ on my home turf.  Maybe I conveniently don't have a specified location handy.  Hmmm. The facts remain clear, that this playful posturing down by teams to one another has gone on for decades, not just in the NFL, but in sports. What's pathetic is the media and fans acted like filming was not legal and that NE's own coaches were never, ever filmed, which somehow made it seem like ONLY NE had some kind of an advantage.  And there was no connection between the Jets/Pats longstanding feud, the 2006 incident in Foxborough, etc. The Pats were clearly set up. Why, to this day, is filming allowed? Why are 23 year old interns responsible for what is shot on gameday? Hmmm. Every single fact points to it being a witch hunt stemming from NE's success and jealousy towards that success. Isn't it why it's still brought up today, almost 5 years later?  Fear. Fear that NE has just quietly rebuilt and is setting up for more runs at SBs. Yup.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing

    I'm not so much into the conspiracy theories--just like I wasn't into the pre-Spygate conspiracy theories that the "Pats have the NFL refs in their back pockets" nonsense that jealous fans of other teams (Raiders, Colts, Rams, etc.) concocted after the Pats began winning championships "without any superstars" on their roster.

    That said, your point about Walsh filming FROM THE STANDS BEHIND THE END ZONE IN VISITING STADIUMS like Pittsburgh's is very important. Obviously, the home team HAD TO KNOW about that, because it's their stadium for God's sake, and they control access to those areas. That, more than anything else, is why the whole episode was a farce, from Goodell's insanely incompetent handling of it to the media's insanely hyperbolic, breathless, agenda-driven coverage of it.

    That Schlereth constantly deflected counter claims from Pats fans about his Broncos teams cheating on the salary cap and then winning Super Bowls just proves that the whole thing was never about the "severity" of the offense; it was all about agendas and TV ratings.
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    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    this arguement from  bab(e) is the same arguement in the  patriots defense thread... his premise contradicts itself... hes a good coach but a bad team builder...lmao

    noone has been better than the pats over the last 10 years noone... he is the ultimate teambuilder... he uses all the facets available to gms that are at their disposal... ie the draft, trades, free agents, undrafted free agents....and there is so much more he does that does not even get recognized...   not every pick, trade or free agent will work out and he has shown that he is not afraid to cut his losses and move on quickly but really the bottom line is ....that the patriots are perennial playoff teams under his watch... have been to four Suber bowls which could easily have been 6,  and won three... and we are quickly closing in on some more....  you cant argue with that... but everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

    what did forrest gump say about that???  oh ya.. stupid is as stupid does
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