Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20111222/SPORTS/112220397

    ATLANTA -- Some former NFL players say in a new federal lawsuit that brain injuries have left them struggling with medical problems years after their playing days ended.

    Jamal Lewis, Dorsey Levens, Fulton Kuykendall and Ryan Stewart filed the lawsuit against the National Football League and NFL Properties LLC this week in U.S. District Court in Atlanta.

    The players maintain the NFL knew as early as the 1920s of the potential for concussions to harm its players.

    "The NFL has done everything in its power to hide the issue and mislead players concerning the risks associated with concussions," the players maintain in the lawsuit.



    The above is only part of the story.  Click the link for the entire story.  This is exactly the reason why the NFL has instituted these new rules that everyone is up in arms about.  We live in a litigious society, and ewhile veryone of the players in the lawsuit implicitly knew what football might do to their brain and body after they were done playing they are unwilling to take responsibility for it - especially when they can find an attorney willing to sue the very rich league on their behalf. 

    It makes me wonder if, as a part of the new CBA, there is now hold harmless language in players contracts that may not have been there before. 
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    ...or they could just remedy the situation to an infinitely greater degree, by mandating that league-wide players wear those state-of-the-art impact-absorbing helmets along with those concussion-proof mouthguards.  

    But yea- This way works too if you need some money, control, influence, power, and say taken back from the individual teams and individual players.  It doesn't work nearly so good on reducing traumatic hits however...  But it still sorta works, kind-of, and a little- Which is good enough for me.

      
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    In response to "Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits":
    Well, since the league knows this happens, shouldn't they do something about it to mitigate it?  Because you're saying that because I know concrete might collapse, if I drive across a bridge as it collapses that isn't the fault of the company that made it. Posted by Patsfansince1966
    Well there's realistically no risk in driving over a bridge, and while in some rare cases a bridge could collapse it is not you driving on it that would cause that, it would be poor construction. In this case players are partaking in inherently risky behavior and even when played correctly there is a huge risk of injury. Them playing football contributes to their risk of injury while you driving over a bridge does not increase the chances the bridge will fall. Like blaming McDonald's for giving you a heart attack or a cigarette company for cancer there is nobody forcing them to take those risks. If those things like football cigarettes and cheeseburgers were known to be perfectly safe when played, smoked or eaten correctly then I could see why someone would Blame them. However if you ordered a cheeseburger and it had something in it that killed you instantly that would be different. So I guess what they must prove is that the NFL has done everything it can to remove all risk but the one inherent to playing the game.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    Professional sports are a "risk/reward" proposition. All sorts have a shelf life for careers as players. In baseball, a great player can get in teh 18-20+ year range. In the NBA, one can hang ariund for 12-15 years. NHL and the NFl, due to the violent nature of the game(s) is much shorter. Even teh great players that play 10-15 years leave with injuries/scars that are with them the rest of their lives. This is no big secret.

    Football players, if not before then after starting play at the high school level, know the inherent risks involved with playing the game. The overwhelming number of players playing at the level will not progress to the next/collegient level. To get there takes a drive and dedication, and the ability to show "what they're made of": skill sets, stamina, dogged-ness, determination, and playing with minor injuries.  Coaches and scouts notice those players that limp off the field and return to play at a high standard later in the game. Same in college. These players are playing for something: scholarship and the possibility of a NFL career.

    It used to be called "getting your bell rung". Today, it's "concussion". Same thing. As a player, you know when you've been injured. No trainer in the world has to tell you that. You know that the light headedness, general wooziness, and other sympthoms are NOT a good thing. Yet, you still play for the fame, glory and the paycheck. Instead of looking at ways the NFL has to protect the players, they need to be protected from themselves. In McCoy's case, it was obvious that he got hurt on the Harrison hit. He got hit in the head, and laid on the ground, practically motionless. Yet, he tells the trainers that his hand is OK. Boom! He's back in the game. Meanwhile, I seriously doubt of Daddy Dearest would say a darned word IF the Browns wound up beating the Steelers that night. Why? Because his little boy showed "courage, deermination, and grit" by getting back into the game and leading his team to victory. Yes, hindsight IS 20/20. 

    I'm for something more realistic when it comes to ALL football related injuries: if you need assistance geting off the field, show an inability to correctly navigate to your own sideline after getting knocked down, or spend more than 30 UNENCUMBERED seconds on the ground after a play (excepting pile ups and that 400lb OLineman lying on top of you), then you are out for the rest of the game. The player goes to the locker room for a full battery of tests including concussion, even if his leg was hurt. Post game, the team doctors can determine the full extent of the injury and begin the rehab/treatment process. No more "well, he never told me his head hurt" stuff.   

    Players know the risk of playing hurt and concussions. Stop laying this burden at the feet of the NFL. Accepting the paycheck accepts the risks. No big secret there. 

    If not, there's always Flag or Touch Football for them..... 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    I wonder if the junior high schools, high schools, and colleges were named in the suit? Or for that matter how about their local pee wee football league? - bet not - although it is more than likely that these players played the majority of their football life in something other than an NFL uniform.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    In Response to Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits:
    I wonder if the junior high schools, high schools, and colleges were named in the suit? Or for that matter how about their local pee wee football league? - bet not - although it is more than likely that these players played the majority of their football life in something other than an NFL uniform.  
    Posted by UD6


    The risk of serious injury is lower at those levels because the players aren't as big, strong or fast.  Granted there are cases like the kid who died on his HS football team and an MRI revealed his brain to be really messed up, but I imagine the vast majority of these guys would not suffer any severe symptoms if they stopped before the NFL.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    pcm - I don't disagree with you, but my point was more about these players seeking money.  You are not going to get any money from a pee wee football league or public school system. 

    That said, and while I agree with you on the severity of hits, unless you have data to the contrary, there's no reason to believe that deterioration of brain function didn't begin sometime at these earlier ages. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    Looks like the league is on its way to flag football to mitigate ANY possibility the player may get hurt when THEY know it is a physical game, but, someone else is to blame for their injuries.  For ANY player to say that running full speed at each other and colliding resulting in any possible injury is the fault of the league is amazing!!!  There is a thing called inherrent risk which goes with playing football at this level.  I am certain many of these players knew they were hurt but "insisted" on going back into the game.  Look at Big Ben playing on that high ankle sprain.  What if further damage results and he can't play anymore and also limits his future career?  Should he sue the league for not keeping him out of the game in spite of his protestations to the contrary? 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    In Response to Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits:
    I wonder if the junior high schools, high schools, and colleges were named in the suit? Or for that matter how about their local pee wee football league? - bet not - although it is more than likely that these players played the majority of their football life in something other than an NFL uniform.  
    Posted by UD6


    Injuries to smaller players are all relative to the size of their competition. Ever see two 2nd graders collide at a playground? It's just the same as two high school kids, or two 50 year old guys playing Weedend Warrior. There's no such thing as a "small broken bone", or a "small concussion". It's a broken bone and a concussion.
     
    Same for never being able to be a "little" pregnant. Either ya got the injury or ya don't. You can't start to equate injuries to size any more than you can defend "rape" as Whoopie Goldberg tried to do a few years ago., in a lame effort to defend Roman Polanski. Rape is rape; boo boo owies are boo boo owies. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    In Response to Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits:
    pcm - I don't disagree with you, but my point was more about these players seeking money.  You are not going to get any money from a pee wee football league or public school system.  That said, and while I agree with you on the severity of hits, unless you have data to the contrary, there's no reason to believe that deterioration of brain function didn't begin sometime at these earlier ages. 
    Posted by UD6


    I don't have hard data comparing the NFL to peewee football, but some of the surveys from the nytimes article on head injuries in the NFL is pretty crazy (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/f/football/head_injuries/index.html).

    A few findings that stuck out are:

    "A 2000 study surveyed 1,090 former N.F.L. players and found more than 60 percent had suffered at least one concussion in their careers and 26 percent had had three or more. Those who had had concussions reported more problems with memory, concentration, speech impediments, headaches and other neurological problems than those who had not, the survey found."

    "A 2007 study conducted by the University of North Carolina's Center for the Study of Retired Athletes found that of the 595 retired N.F.L. players who recalled sustaining three or more concussions on the football field, 20.2 percent said they had been found to have depression. That is three times the rate of players who have not sustained concussions."

    "But in September 2009, a study commissioned by the N.F.L. reported that Alzheimer's disease or similar memory-related diseases appear to have been diagnosed in the league's former players vastly more often than in the national population — including a rate of 19 times the normal rate for men ages 30 through 49."

    If these numbers translated to the population of kids who play football (which is orders of magnitude larger than the number of NFL players) I feel like we'd see an epidemic of these symptoms that would be hard not to notice.

    So it's not exactly hard data, but given the intuitive nature of my previous argument I think it still has some validity.  That being said I agree that if you are going to sue you go where the money is.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    I'm gonna leave the retired NFL Players off to the side...

    Simply in regards to the NFL Players playing in the here and now, and the NFL FO's overall stance...I think the whole thing is a bunch'a b#llsh#t. 

    I agree with AZPAT & everyone else who prescribes to the notion that these guys playing in the NFL within say the last 25 years or so (for general argument's sake), know full g#d-dang well the inherent risks with playing this game.  In terms of this, they're right:  You're a man making excellent money, and playing a gladitorial sport wherein fans laud you with degrees of envy, respect, fame- And you KNOW that you LOVE it.  And you should....SureInTH beats playin' for the fryolator team at Burger King for 10 bucks an hour.  Like they said=In light of weighing ALL of these exceptionally coveted positives for playing Pro Ball, Grow up & take some responsibility for the health risk vs money & fame reward that comes along with it.

    Now THAT being said, It'll be interesting to me exactly how these same posters that share my similiar sentiments up above, respond to the following point...  I've read (RE: NFL Players potential to sue The League FO for the surfacing of terrible long-term injuries)- From these SAME posters, things like: "You go where the money is," and "Stop laying this burden at the feet of the NFL...Accepting the paycheck accepts the risks...No big secret there."  
        
    ~~Be-cause, HERE is the problem that The League's Front Office mandates have created THEM-selves; The new wrench, that they themselves, decided to recently throw in the machine of this greater situation...  
        
         THEIR (NFL FO's) stance, And THEIR specific actions to try to curve the potential probabilities of devasting injuries and serious long-term health consequences which might arise, Has been to by and large=Lay it on the feet of the players playing the game ON the field.  Rather than attempting first & foremost, curbing the health risks through what would be a laughably far more successful means, BY mandating The Entire League to wear those state-of-the-art Impact deflecting helmets, along with those Concussion abating mouthguards (something absurd-like 150% reduction in concussions), The NFL Front Office has decided to ad hoc change the lightning-fast game, then fine players ten thousand + dollars every single time that they make a split second on-field decision, OF which in such crazy large part, the split second body movements of guys down on the field, Simply can and DO negate many attempts by a given defender to alter his hit/tackle, into a "Perfectly Legal" One.

    And so they just fine the player.  And as a logical course of action which hopefully can result in the greatest probability of success to abate the potential for serious short-term and/or long-term injuries, Doing it THIS way, Is Absolutely Insane.  Outright st#pid.  The very SAME culpabaility which the players NEED to have, Is the same amount of culpability that Each Team needs to have, and Absolutely THE very same culpability that those in charge of the entire League's Operations, NEED to have and be responsible for.  No doubt.  EVERY-one's responsibility.  But it's not that way...The manner in which The League FO has presently set up the responsibility, Is by lying it squarely on the split-second reactive play of a single Individual Defender's head, playing the game.  
        
         And that part's fine... But to make it stop there, is utter garbage.  You're a big-boy: You take some responsibility with full knowledge of the personal consequences of playing this game- What the short and long-term risks are (i.e. injuries) & What is expected of your play, and How you play (i.e. fines).  That's o.k....no problemo. 
         But same goes for The specific Team Personell- these players are TOTAL cut-throat competitors, And many times their sheer competitive drive outweighs certain less-obvious degrees of them realizing that they're hurt, or slightly hurt, or whatever (within a game, and within the span before a Sunday game); So jesus kr!st, It's actually your job to make this determination because You CAN set these personal "on-field competitive" feelings aside, that many times a player negates.  YOU let Colt McCoy back in Cleveland Browns personell & trainers & coaches...And JUST like James Harrison who actually made the high hit on McCoy, You yourself, will be punished for your own failings in what was subsequently YOUR responsibility after-the-fact, and on the sideline. 
         Finally-Same for you Goodell, ya sc#mb#g=You know FULL well that there are certain & specific types of SUPERB equipment changes along with mandates setting up certain degrees of fail-safes that a team HAS to abide by, If and when someone's full health is questionable...
    ....And until you do ALL these things, I have ZERO problem if & when an NFL Player playing today in the 2011 Season, sues your #ss 10 years down the line.         
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobo354. Show bobo354's posts

    Re: Why players are now fined and/or suspended for head to head hits

    This is football. You learn from an early age that this sport HURTS. If you can't take it try another sport. There will alway be Lawyers who will promise you the world to get a piece of the pie. It's the players decision to play hurt or milk it for what it's worth. This sport is based on the fastest and biggest to make it a career. If they can't hack it take up Soccer.
     
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