It seems time and time again, when the offense is tabbed as the reason or the team as a whole, for the Pats not winning, most lay it in the lap of Brady.  Watching the game Sunday, yes, Brady had his mistakes, but he was not the one charged with blocking for running plays or carried the rock on running plays.  He did not drop passes which were squarely in the hands of the receivers.  Or a receiver who could have easily broken up a potential INT.  He, apparently, is not charged with deciding to have running plays in the 4th to eat up clock when they obviously would not be sufficient to get first downs.  We can all argue he could have been more effective in late game situations, but, in those games lost late in a game, why is it the D giving up so many late scores after holding the other team in check for just about 50 minutes or more? 

A lot of posts here are questioning late game offensive problems as more to blame than late game defensive collapses.  Then, after the end of the game, the TEAM talks about doing better as a TEAM, but, how do they get each other to play better at the end of games?  In the last few years there has been one theme to the Pats losses..  inability to close out teams with either offensive control or defensive stops late in a game.  WHY?  What causes such a break down of the successes the team enjoys for more than three quarters of a game on both sides only to see it go up in flames into the later parts of the 4th quarter?  You can definitely see, at least IMHO, a change in attitude of the team and play calling.  It doesn't seem to play with the same intensity when in the lead late, the offense goes stale and the defense seems to play loose.  While the opponment clearly steps up their game on both sides of the ball.  Playing "not to lose" versus "hammering the nails into the opponent's coffin" seems the rule in close game, late.

Let's argue!!!

It's not on one player, or even one side of the ball.  It truly is a collective failure.  What it comes down to and I may have the numbers a hair wrong here:  EDIT: Stealing from FrnkBnhm in another thread:

From 2001-2004 with Brady at QB, the Patriots were 25-5 (.833) in games decided by 7 points or less. That is actually better than their record of 32-9 (.780) in games decided by 8 points or more.  Starting from 2009-today the Pats are 10-12 (.454) in games decided by 7 points or less and 33-5 (.833) in games decided by 8 or more.

 

The Pats are THE COLTS...great regular season world beaters, but always seeming to wilt in the big spots, especially the playoffs.  Even back to the beginning of the 2007 post season..the wins haven't been all that impressive....with the Denver game excluded.  Denver is a bad match up for our offense and they had Tim Tebow...so let's get real here.

 

I've been seeing our beloved Patriots spitting the bit in big games for a long while now...the offense sputtering in critical times of the game, defense or lackthereof in the fourth quarter, stupid penalties (Rob Gronkowski - false start AT HOME in a largely silent stadium pushing the FG attempt back), stupid coaching (clock management - is HERM EDWARDS ON THE STAFF?!?!?), etc.  The Pats are now the team that is throwing up on their own shoes...not the other way around like we used to witness week in and week out by our opponents. 

 

Those early 2000 teams played SMART, SITUATIONAL football.  Each phase of the game would compliment the other.  If one phase did their job, the next phase would do theirs, and collectively the little things added up to a win.

 

The players have changed over the years...BB has invested quite a bit of draft capital on the secondary.  I'm going to think of some issues even back to the defensive collapse in the 2006 AFC Championship.  Even from that point, I believe there are some coaching issues that haven't been addressed sufficiently enough.  The secondary has been getting pretty bad for awhile.  In 2007 I saw a trend of 3rd down issues showing up (it wasn't really a problem because we were up by 30).  Honestly, i think it starts at the top and the brain drain in Foxborough over the years is likely a big part.  BB is trying to find young versions of himself in these jamokes...and there's only one BB.  I'd actually like to see the rat come home...Eric Mangini.  He was able to get an aging Troy Brown, Earthwind Moreland, and Randall Gay to play decently in the defensive backfield.  We've got the talent...we're just not developing it or coaching it well enough.

Here's my two cents.

This team goes where Brady goes.  If he stinks up the place we lose.  The defense is not going to win anything for this team with the inconsistant pass rush and porious backfield.  Now we have OL issues.   Brady has always been consistant and most expect this.  I would rather see him eat the ball for a loss than throw two grounding penalties.  I thought that very un-Brady like.  Interceptions are another matter because blame can be shared.

We're lucky to have Brady.  But because of the team situation he has to carry it.  This team will only go as far as Brady can take it. 

In response to garytx's comment:

That's just it...that's one of the problems.  Brady CAN'T do it on his own.  If he does relatively well, yes...we're in good shape.  If things don't go as well around him, we see him do very stupid things.  He can't be the only one doing his job sufficiently.  This is so much a team game...morseo than baseball, basketball, or even hockey.  One guy can't carry the load.  Since they've put the onus on him, the results haven't always been as good...in big games.  Sure...they can beat up the Miami's, Buffalo's, and NYJs of the NFL...but it quite a different story when going up against a more balanced and potent team in the playoffs.

 

You are correct though...we are lucky we have Brady.  I can't imagine what we'd really look like if he wasn't covering up for the other ineptitude that exists in other areas.  I know about 2008...MC did pretty well, but he had some serious weapons at his disposal.  We couldn't beat ANY of the playoff bound teams that year.  We lost to them all...usually late in the games.

It's not just 1 player ever but there were a couple of things that stuck out about Brady and since he is the QB he's the head pin in bowling, the one with the light directly on him.

Now as Ytse said it was a complete failure but since you pointed out Brady I'll do the same, but only for this one game and some bad habits he has gotten into over the last 5 years or so:

Those intentional grounding calls took points directly off the board. They lost the game by 1 point so any points left on the field are critical. The first intentional grounding he should of had the awareness to throw it in the direction of a WR. He use to be one of the best at putting it in a spot no one could get to and close to a WR. That's 3 intentional grounding calls in the last 7 games (going back to SB) that either took points off the board by either running the clock off, moving out of FG range, or giving the other team a S. Right there is 8 points on 3 plays Brady never use to have issues with before

Brady's end game. What were that Pats known for, the 2 min warning. Brady was the great at checking done, taking what was giving to him, dumping off, and managing the clock. Since Moss, oh I can hear the Moss fanatics now, Brady has stopped taking what was given to him, he stopped checking down, and as with last game he hasn't managed the clock well. I mean you go down to the 24 on a long play and let 19s run off the clock with 2 TO's? You spend a time out immediately get your guys set so you aren't rushing. Additionally he had over a 1min to drive 40 yards (get into Ghost's range). The old Brady would check down, run the ball, dump it off and kill the other teams D with dink and dunk 8 yards per play at a time drive. I think Moss changed that and now Brady is just flinging it down the field. 

Brady's changed since hs 01-06 run, in some case for the better in others for the worse but in the end his best days he can overcome an entire teams mistakes and win on his worst days he's making a lot of mistakes we didn't see early in his career

"Why so quick to blame ONE player, Brady, for offensive, if not overall, for the Pats' woes?"

Because he doesn't put as many points up on the scoreboard as he once had, stays on the field less than he's ever done, Gets sacked more than he's ever been before, Has less accuracy by-and-large than he's ever had before, Is part of an Offense that turns the ball over oftentimes deep inside inside it's own territory and makes all-together egregiously bad mistakes during the more critical stages and turning points in games than I have ever even seen them remotely do in the 1st half of his career, runs 75% of his plays from the shotgun while 99.9% of the time- ALWAYS throwing from the shotgun and runs the other 25% of his plays from under center while 99.9% of the time- ALWAYS handing the ball off from under center, Plays his worst and rises to a lesser level against the most quality top-tier NFL opponents than he ever did before, and because he leads an Offense which can't score diddley-squat in the 2nd half, and one which can't even stay on the field for longer than 2 minutes in the 4th quarter...

^ This weighed on top of the fact that he's a Hall of Famer, The face of The New England Patriots, and the unquestioned leader of the entire team, whom gets paid 15 Million Dollars a year in order to play at a 15 million dollar level. 

~~

^ It's for these reasons why 2-5% of NE Patriots Fans place slight blame Tom Brady...(the remainder going to Devin McCourty, just not the complete 100% of blame <99.99999999999999%>)

I blame the coach for the time out issue. He is allowed to call a time out from the sideline. Undoubtedly players looked to the sideline to see if a time out should be called or it had been discussed after the bad punt (if not than that makes it even worse). With 6 seconds left and no time outs you kick a field goal. you do not take a chance without the time out. A player gets hurt or a penalty could kill them there and it did. I do not know who screwed up on that play but I assume it was Brady and he deserves blame for it but it should never have happened. They got away with it in Baltimore when they scored the TD with 1 second left. It was dumb then, though they got lucky then and it was dumb in Seattle. Bill needs to be less of a fan (4th and long against denver) and more of a strategist.

I think that it's the whole team, most of all the coaches. Brady had some poor moments but also made some great plays that resulted in points.

I blame Gisele

That's just it...that's one of the problems.  Brady CAN'T do it on his own.  If he does relatively well, yes...we're in good shape.  If things don't go as well around him, we see him do very stupid things.  He can't be the only one doing his job sufficiently.  This is so much a team game...morseo than baseball, basketball, or even hockey.  One guy can't carry the load.  Since they've put the onus on him, the results haven't always been as good...in big games.  Sure...they can beat up the Miami's, Buffalo's, and NYJs of the NFL...but it quite a different story when going up against a more balanced and potent team in the playoffs.

 You are correct though...we are lucky we have Brady.  I can't imagine what we'd really look like if he wasn't covering up for the other ineptitude that exists in other areas.  I know about 2008...MC did pretty well, but he had some serious weapons at his disposal.  We couldn't beat ANY of the playoff bound teams that year.  We lost to them all...usually late in the games.

[/QUOTE]

I think we're on the same page.  If the Pats go up against a good defensive line they are going to have problems and Brady tries to make something happen.  The Pats OL went through a big change over the year and it's going to take some time to set this ship right. 
So I expect Brady to be rather human this year and to have more miscues like this past Sunday.

well....2 INT and 2 intentional grounding will do that to ya.

He's also the one that gets all the glory when they win - not the rest of the offense.

Finally, even a future HOF should not be protected from criticism.  IMO, it's been a while since he looked for open man vs. forcing the ball to make something happen.

Overall, Brady plays well.  The problem is his mistakes are magnified because if the offense doesn't have a perfect performance, we can't rely on the defense to hold leads.  The biggest difference between the Pats of 2003/2004 and today's Pats is the defense.  Those earlier defenses generally could hold leads.  Recent defenses just can't.  This puts huge pressure on the offense to always be perfect.  When it's not, the mistakes get magnified because they lead to losses.  In the past, the offensive mistakes often didn't affect the outcome, because the defense was able to compensate. 

In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

It's not just that it's also the 03/04' Pats O could close out a game too. If the D was having a bad game the O would bail them out and if the O was having a bad game the D would bail them out. Now both the D and the O fall apart in the 4th. How many times now has the Pats O in the 4th gone 3 and out? Or with under 2 mins and the Pats needing a scoring drive that we see 3-4 deep passes and turn the ball over on possessions? It's one thing I've been noticing for a while now. it use to be that with both the D and O the Pats had a way to keep things simply in the 4th. The D's job was to keep things in front of them and make plays happen. They would rush 5 and play 6 back but you never knew who those 5 would be. It was simple really, call out who rushes and who drops back. Everybody's job was to keep the play infront of them or get to the QB, one or the other. For the O it was a simple take what the D gives you. If you need to check down, dump off, or call a draw at the line you do it. The point was to move the ball using the most efficient means possible. Now we see Brady morph into Bledsoe and sling the ball 4 times in a row down the field. I think Moss did that to him. He got use to just throwing it up and letting the WR make a play that he forgot how to simplify it and just destroy a D one piece at a time.

This team needs to get back to the basics like in 01-06. Sometimes I think this team out thinks itself and tries to do to much. When they go back to simplifying everything they always function better

Reading this thread is like listening to Mittens not answer a question at the debate.

The reason is - Rusty is a troll.

In response to PatsEng's comment:

Eng, do you think they need to get the backs more involved in the passing offense late in the game?  Backs who can get to the edge quickly, make a sure catch, and get out of bounds really can help in a 2 minute drive.  That seems to be a part of the game plan that disappeared a few years back and hasn't really come back.  Was hoping Vereen would bring it back, but he's injured all the time. 

 

Pat need to run more in 4th....direct runs or screens......the dink and dunk was what they were doing in those "good" years. High percentage plays that ran the clock. Not these shotgun forced passes.

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In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

I think that's exactly what they need to do. Short slants, flats, screens, draws. High % plays that might not get a ton of yards but you can setup quickly and get out of bounds. Simplify the offense. If Brady can't get through 5 reads in 4s then the play is too complicated. There should always be a late release for a dump off option and a way for Brady to toss it out of bounds with an intentional grounding. Back to the basics is the way we should be heading not making it more complicated and taking low % shots down field. A play in a legit 2min offense shouldn't take more then 6s off the clock. You should be able to 6-8 plays off easy in less then a min and the Pats use to be able to do that. 6-8 plays even if they only average 5 yards a clip (well below the average yards per play they usually run in 2min O) will still get you to the 50 if not 40 in about a min and that's worst case dink and dunk. Truthfully if they can't get from the 20 to FG range in about a 1min-1.5mins then something is wrong. Remember they use to go from 20->20 in a min and half and still have enough time to line the FG up before Vin kicked it?

That Denver vs San Diego game this week reminded me of the Pats and the way you all describe how it used to be. Denver was down by 3 scores. Manning then methodically came back 3 scores. The fact that Denver had some playmakers on D, Rivers felt some pressure and purposely avoided Baily and Porter and the Denver JAGS quickly got the ball back for Manning. One was pick six by a Jag which won the Game. The Pats don't have the true playmakers in that D'Backfield anymore, not one. Manning looked like the same Manning of the past.

Dunno what's up with the Pats, it's all been described and examined on these threads. The whole Team seams to have taken a dive all at once. Stop being stupid is a good start and go from there. That starts with the HC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ricky - I agree but for some reason people who can't see Brady do any wrong block everything else and only see people saying Brady did something wrong. I would say 95% of us have stated it wasn't just Brady that it was a team loss but at the same time also picked out specific plays in which Brady left points on the field as the QB. This is seen as a direct attack as a means to blame one player when in reality it's just pointing out one cause of many with having an enormous general thread, just so happens they came from the 1 player that can affect the game more then any other individual player

I don't blame him for the bad blocking or no running game, but I do blame him for the bad decisions HE MAKES, that lead to bad throws or intentional grounding calls.

 

It's funny, on this board, it's fine to give him credit for SB victories or 4th quarter comebacks (as if one man could win those alone) but we can't rag on him when he has a bad 4th quarter (that apparently is everyone else on the offense fault) or else we are somehow bad fans.

Brady has not performed well. McDaniels offensive puts of flashy regular season numbers, but is not designed to win close games late. He basically likes to coach a video game offense, and that still does not beat well coached defenses in tight games. 

I really wish they had never brought McDaniels back. I still feel like the 2007 offensive juggernaut was when this team lost its soul... They went for flash over substance and have never gotten back to intense, clutch team they were in the early 2000s.

"Brady has not performed well. McDaniels offensive puts of flashy regular season numbers, but is not designed to win close games late. He basically likes to coach a video game offense, and that still does not beat well coached defenses in tight games. 

I really wish they had never brought McDaniels back. I still feel like the 2007 offensive juggernaut was when this team lost its soul... They went for flash over substance and have never gotten back to intense, clutch team they were in the early 2000s."

Shhh, even though I haven't favored some of your comments on NE's D, due to the sheer fact that'cha let loose that "McDaniels coaches a video game Offense," I'ma tell'ya the secret that every single NE Patriots Football Fan should be reciting in their sleep, the single most critical factor that WILL shore up NE's issues more than ANY-thing...  Readyyyy?

~New England's Offense needs an Identity.

Dat's it, and it's the true face behind the multi-faceted mask.  It's o.k. being multi-faceted and diverse, and have the ability to show multiple looks and do multiple things...  He!!, That's GREAT!  BUT now, NE runs Soooo many different looks from a player personell and schematic design standpoint, drive after drive after drive, always changing...just TOO often.  It's almost as IF they begin a game by offering up several differing O packages per 1st half possessions, in order to see what might work...  THEN, once one DOES work...They STILL continue to over-tinker and change-up NE's O game designs and personell packages, to no end, and do so straight up til the waning moments of each & every game.  The times when they haven't?  The times when they found 1 that DID work well in-game, and actually relied much heavier & consistantly forward on it?  =They won. 

And it scr#ws up EVERY-thing:  The D's banking on your extended 5-6 minute long drives, and suddenly that gets shelled for some quick strike pass-heavy, lighter O packages offering up suddenly 3 or 4 minute and half to 2 minutes and a half drives in a row, perhaps 1 leading to some points on the scoreboard...  That'll KILL any & every semblance of situational football benfits for both sides of the ball (esp. the other, i.e. Defense);  Also-You're changing up designs AND the personell needed to implement those designs...Meaning:  Half your players go for long swaths in a game not playing, 1-2, even 3 & 4 entire drives where theses differing O design packages keep 'em on the bench (or subbed in for a play here & there sporadically).

And it's just that:  McDaniels spends far too much time operating NE's Offense the same way a 13 year old operates an XBox John Madden Game NFL Offense...  In the real world, there becomes a few more utterly & entire TEAM defeating issues which come hand in hand with doing so.

THAT...is it.

Either find an Identity for your greater "look" and stick with it (maybe throw in a few wrinkles, by play, or by and AFTER every handful of drives where you've stayed consistant to the form you've decided upon), OR offer up a few multi-looks early on, and then CHOOSE & STICK to the 1 showing the best results...   But STOP:  Changing every package for every drive and in the middle of drives...ALL day long, for the vast majority of most every game, Just for the sake of "changing", itself.  It's ridiculous...and pretty st#p#d.  Tinkering, Changing, and overcomplicating to the point where it cripples any consistancy, any sense for your D's duties in-game in relation to your O's designs and performances.  D#mb, d#mb, d#mb...