Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

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    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    Well, as fans of our particular teams, we have been fortunate to have a great QB.  I hadn't thought much about the complexity of the offense until you brought it up.  I really don't know but it makes sense to me that if you are able to have the same QB, then the offense gets more complex over the years because new wrinkles can be installed based on things seen from defenses. 

     
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    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

     

    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     

     



    Because as of right now this WR core is similar to the 06' core, except if Cadwell only played in a 3rd of the games (Slater is currently our #3 WR, really?). That didn't turn out to well last time. I don't think they need to go overboard and get an 07' O but how about an 03' one? I think all I want is 1 durable WR who can give consistent production. After that I'm perfectly happy with the TEs, OL, Brady, and RBs but the WR core is really concerning to me. Of  course if the choice came down to adding a pass rusher, an interior DT to play next to Wilfork, and a legit outside CB backup I'd take D anyday, but lets not neglect the WR core either. Imo you can fill all those needs between what's left in FA (Abraham, Nelson/Lloyd) and draft (DT, WR, CB)

     

     



    I don't think we had 100million $ invested in 2 of the best TE's in the LG in 2006.

     
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    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

     

    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     

     



    Because as of right now this WR core is similar to the 06' core, except if Cadwell only played in a 3rd of the games (Slater is currently our #3 WR, really?). That didn't turn out to well last time. I don't think they need to go overboard and get an 07' O but how about an 03' one? I think all I want is 1 durable WR who can give consistent production. After that I'm perfectly happy with the TEs, OL, Brady, and RBs but the WR core is really concerning to me. Of  course if the choice came down to adding a pass rusher, an interior DT to play next to Wilfork, and a legit outside CB backup I'd take D anyday, but lets not neglect the WR core either. Imo you can fill all those needs between what's left in FA (Abraham, Nelson/Lloyd) and draft (DT, WR, CB)

     

     

     



    I don't think we had 100million $ invested in 2 of the best TE's in the LG in 2006.

     



    I was talking purely WR core hence why I said WR core but for one more good measure I was talking WR core

     
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    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

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    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     




    Because a lot of fans are brainwashed reading rustys post over and over about our offense not getting it done. They didnt bother to do the research themselves and see that we always get less posession come postseason due to our D not getting off the field and everyone is sitting their Scratching their heads wondering why we only scored 13 pts. If your defense cant stop anyone and give up 4 TDs in 4 redzone appearances the offense has to be perfect and thats impossible sooooo, You Blame Brady and everyone wants MORE weapons now and the same p*ss poor defense! Yaaaaah! We signed Arrington and Cole back , surely things will change now right??

     

     

    LOL

     




    How can you choose to throw 45 times, most of those passes, say 75% out of a shotgun, be due to a lack of "possessions"? That doesn't make any sense at all, especially when it's by choice with a lead.

    If they were behind, then you'd be correct. 

    NE's D has been a top 1-3 D in the last 3 years in creating turnovers, which means they're actually adding in more possessions than most teams, even if they aren't stonewalling on 3 and outs like some locked down D in a passing era. So, you lose there, too.

    What team ran more plays on offense this year than NE's? ZERO. NE led the NFL in plays run and it's not because Tom Brady is infallible in the shotgun spread.

    This is the most moronic premise ever. NE has leads in games and the offense chooses to end up throwing 45 times, mostly from the shotgun. THAT is your problem.

    i don't need to brainwash anyone, Shizzles.  I can source game after game after game of this finesse garbage letting our own D down and our fanbase down.

    This "how many possessions" we have is total bunk, especially when the offense gets a bunch more than the average, and the yield still isn't that good.

    It's like you're standing there like a 12 year old girl demanding the D create at least 2 turnovers in case Brady throws his 2 INTs when he throws 40+ times against good or great Ds. Everything is about ignoring Brady and his choice of running the offense. If you aren't All Pro, you aren't in the Circle of Trust, which may be part of BB's approach to fix Brady this offseason. 

    No more binkies. We've had too many seasons of binkies.

    The fact is, Brady and the strategy, derived by Brady's choice to run this from the shotgun, is a massive failure yet he still thinks he can somehow get it done in that base formation. Don't deviate from the methodology, the one that works, which is patience and Brady under center.

    This shotgun preference has sucked! Sucked!  Do you really enjoy sitting back knowing that our own offense, when it doesn't score for entire halves in that crap, somehow is this infallible style?

    Brady can't go on with it.

    He can't. It's over. Deal with it. We have a 36 year old QB who blew two SBs with it and missed his chances.

    It's over.

     

     




    pats with brady and pats D=12+ wins

     

    pats without brady and pats D= 9 wins

     

     



    No idea what that means.   You offer nothing into these discussions as usual.

     

     




    What he is trying to say is that without Brady this is a mediocre team...nothing more. He's 100% correct. Does that help, dumbo?

     

     




    No, it doesn't.  Brady had a very good D from 2001-2004 with better QBing back then.

     

    Recently, the D has been younger and not as good, but he's also been worse.  How does that excuse him, dumbo?

    This doesn't even count his SB 42 meltdown with an atrocious display by he and the offense in 2007.

    Did anyone watch SB 46 in the 4th qtr when he melted down? What does the D have to do with how subpar he is running the offense?

     

     

     




    How does it excuse him? Well he's not the one who builds the team, so you can't pin the lack of a defense on him - that's on the "best GM ever" shoulders. You can also say if you remove him from the equation, we wouldn't of had to worry about Brady "being subpar running the offense" in the playoffs, because we would never sniff the post season. By the way, if the defense hadn't played so poorly in super bowl 46, Brady would of won the MVP in that game. Hands down...no one even close.

     

    The fact that you can sit here and try to blame Brady for anything while we have perhaps the most average defense in the NFL, is very showing of how uneducated you are as a fan of football. It's embarrassing to see.

     

     




    THe D held the Giants to 13 points in SB 46 for 57 minutes while he collapsed Did he even show up in SB 42?

     

    Who kidnapped Brady in the 2nd half of this past AFC title game?

    What does of any of this have to do with you 2007 D our our young D off a lockout that actually played well/better than the offense last postseason!!???

    It was well understood by even a casual Pats fan that BB was rebuilding the entire D and almost all of the offense TRHOUGH THE DRAFT, once he dealt Vrabel and Seymour. It was on.

    You're an imbecile for NOT seeing it. LOL

    But, what does that FACT have to do with Brady himeself?  2007, 2011 and 2012 were LOADED offenses! LOADED!

    Guy gets 20 million per year and you make excuses for him taking up that much of the budget and SUCKING?

    Pathetic.

    Exact quote in the 4th QTR of SB 46: "The D has only allowed 13 points. It's going to take an offensive failure for us to lose this."

    Guess what happened? 1 INT, 4 crappy drives and we lost.

    FAIL

    Brady.

     




    Liar!  There were 4 drives in the entire second half, one of which they scored on and another that lasted 6 minutes.  On the other side, the D allowed scoring on 3 of 4 of those crappy 4 drives.  EPIC Fail!!!!!

    The O was loaded 1 year!  2007, that's it. 

    No one in their right mind would consider Welker, Dropsie and oft injured Hernandez, 75 yr old Branch and one legged or broken arm, Gronk  and a lead back that had 4 out of 10 runs FOR LOSSES, as loaded.

    Nor would they consider the 31st ranked  D, who averaged twice the leagues Top Average per drive, on the field , with zero 3 & outs and zero picks or fumble recoveries and couldn't make a single rz stop, and  the 27th ranked ST as an asset.

     

    But, hey, the did have 7M in unused cap to carry over to the next year.  Good job!

     
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    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

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    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     




    Because a lot of fans are brainwashed reading rustys post over and over about our offense not getting it done. They didnt bother to do the research themselves and see that we always get less posession come postseason due to our D not getting off the field and everyone is sitting their Scratching their heads wondering why we only scored 13 pts. If your defense cant stop anyone and give up 4 TDs in 4 redzone appearances the offense has to be perfect and thats impossible sooooo, You Blame Brady and everyone wants MORE weapons now and the same p*ss poor defense! Yaaaaah! We signed Arrington and Cole back , surely things will change now right??

     

     

    LOL

     




    How can you choose to throw 45 times, most of those passes, say 75% out of a shotgun, be due to a lack of "possessions"? That doesn't make any sense at all, especially when it's by choice with a lead.

    If they were behind, then you'd be correct. 

    NE's D has been a top 1-3 D in the last 3 years in creating turnovers, which means they're actually adding in more possessions than most teams, even if they aren't stonewalling on 3 and outs like some locked down D in a passing era. So, you lose there, too.

    What team ran more plays on offense this year than NE's? ZERO. NE led the NFL in plays run and it's not because Tom Brady is infallible in the shotgun spread.

    This is the most moronic premise ever. NE has leads in games and the offense chooses to end up throwing 45 times, mostly from the shotgun. THAT is your problem.

    i don't need to brainwash anyone, Shizzles.  I can source game after game after game of this finesse garbage letting our own D down and our fanbase down.

    This "how many possessions" we have is total bunk, especially when the offense gets a bunch more than the average, and the yield still isn't that good.

    It's like you're standing there like a 12 year old girl demanding the D create at least 2 turnovers in case Brady throws his 2 INTs when he throws 40+ times against good or great Ds. Everything is about ignoring Brady and his choice of running the offense. If you aren't All Pro, you aren't in the Circle of Trust, which may be part of BB's approach to fix Brady this offseason. 

    No more binkies. We've had too many seasons of binkies.

    The fact is, Brady and the strategy, derived by Brady's choice to run this from the shotgun, is a massive failure yet he still thinks he can somehow get it done in that base formation. Don't deviate from the methodology, the one that works, which is patience and Brady under center.

    This shotgun preference has sucked! Sucked!  Do you really enjoy sitting back knowing that our own offense, when it doesn't score for entire halves in that crap, somehow is this infallible style?

    Brady can't go on with it.

    He can't. It's over. Deal with it. We have a 36 year old QB who blew two SBs with it and missed his chances.

    It's over.

     

     




    pats with brady and pats D=12+ wins

     

    pats without brady and pats D= 9 wins

     

     



    No idea what that means.   You offer nothing into these discussions as usual.

     

     




    What he is trying to say is that without Brady this is a mediocre team...nothing more. He's 100% correct. Does that help, dumbo?

     

     




    No, it doesn't.  Brady had a very good D from 2001-2004 with better QBing back then.

     

    Recently, the D has been younger and not as good, but he's also been worse.  How does that excuse him, dumbo?

    This doesn't even count his SB 42 meltdown with an atrocious display by he and the offense in 2007.

    Did anyone watch SB 46 in the 4th qtr when he melted down? What does the D have to do with how subpar he is running the offense?

     

     

     




    How does it excuse him? Well he's not the one who builds the team, so you can't pin the lack of a defense on him - that's on the "best GM ever" shoulders. You can also say if you remove him from the equation, we wouldn't of had to worry about Brady "being subpar running the offense" in the playoffs, because we would never sniff the post season. By the way, if the defense hadn't played so poorly in super bowl 46, Brady would of won the MVP in that game. Hands down...no one even close.

     

    The fact that you can sit here and try to blame Brady for anything while we have perhaps the most average defense in the NFL, is very showing of how uneducated you are as a fan of football. It's embarrassing to see.

     

     




    THe D held the Giants to 13 points in SB 46 for 57 minutes while he collapsed Did he even show up in SB 42?

     

    Who kidnapped Brady in the 2nd half of this past AFC title game?

    What does of any of this have to do with you 2007 D our our young D off a lockout that actually played well/better than the offense last postseason!!???

    It was well understood by even a casual Pats fan that BB was rebuilding the entire D and almost all of the offense TRHOUGH THE DRAFT, once he dealt Vrabel and Seymour. It was on.

    You're an imbecile for NOT seeing it. LOL

    But, what does that FACT have to do with Brady himeself?  2007, 2011 and 2012 were LOADED offenses! LOADED!

    Guy gets 20 million per year and you make excuses for him taking up that much of the budget and SUCKING?

    Pathetic.

    Exact quote in the 4th QTR of SB 46: "The D has only allowed 13 points. It's going to take an offensive failure for us to lose this."

    Guess what happened? 1 INT, 4 crappy drives and we lost.

    FAIL

    Brady.

     

     




    Liar!  There were 4 drives in the entire second half, one of which they scored on and another that lasted 6 minutes.  On the other side, the D allowed scoring on 3 of 4 of those crappy 4 drives.  EPIC Fail!!!!!

     

    The O was loaded 1 year!  2007, that's it. 

    No one in their right mind would consider Welker, Dropsie and oft injured Hernandez, 75 yr old Branch and one legged or broken arm, Gronk  and a lead back that had 4 out of 10 runs FOR LOSSES, as loaded.

    Nor would they consider the 31st ranked  D, who averaged twice the leagues Top Average per drive, on the field , with zero 3 & outs and zero picks or fumble recoveries and couldn't make a single rz stop, and  the 27th ranked ST as an asset.

     

    But, hey, the did have 7M in unused cap to carry over to the next year.  Good job!

     




    No, they had FOUR drives after the one out of halftime where they got the TD.

     

    One lasted 57 seconds!  lol!

    Nice try, Pezzy!  Enjoy lying and being caught again!




    Well if you want to count the last 35 seconds that BB had to allow the jints to score on, just to get that; as a drive, then go right ahead. Technically, that is correct.  Realistically, NO!

    I see it more as a desperation act that never would have happened if the D had just done their job.  For once!

    Do you consider letting the jints score on a 90 yard drive,  just to get 35 seconds and a prayer, a good thing?  Wonder why, with a lead and  3 minutes left in the game, that BB was so desperate just to hand over 6 points?

    Wonder how upgrading 3 players and spending that 7M in unused cap, might have helped.

    Who did they get with that 7M  that they saved, again?  Are they still on the team?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

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    In response to anonymis's comment:

     

    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     




    Because a lot of fans are brainwashed reading rustys post over and over about our offense not getting it done. They didnt bother to do the research themselves and see that we always get less posession come postseason due to our D not getting off the field and everyone is sitting their Scratching their heads wondering why we only scored 13 pts. If your defense cant stop anyone and give up 4 TDs in 4 redzone appearances the offense has to be perfect and thats impossible sooooo, You Blame Brady and everyone wants MORE weapons now and the same p*ss poor defense! Yaaaaah! We signed Arrington and Cole back , surely things will change now right??

     

     

    LOL

     




    How can you choose to throw 45 times, most of those passes, say 75% out of a shotgun, be due to a lack of "possessions"? That doesn't make any sense at all, especially when it's by choice with a lead.

    If they were behind, then you'd be correct. 

    NE's D has been a top 1-3 D in the last 3 years in creating turnovers, which means they're actually adding in more possessions than most teams, even if they aren't stonewalling on 3 and outs like some locked down D in a passing era. So, you lose there, too.

    What team ran more plays on offense this year than NE's? ZERO. NE led the NFL in plays run and it's not because Tom Brady is infallible in the shotgun spread.

    This is the most moronic premise ever. NE has leads in games and the offense chooses to end up throwing 45 times, mostly from the shotgun. THAT is your problem.

    i don't need to brainwash anyone, Shizzles.  I can source game after game after game of this finesse garbage letting our own D down and our fanbase down.

    This "how many possessions" we have is total bunk, especially when the offense gets a bunch more than the average, and the yield still isn't that good.

    It's like you're standing there like a 12 year old girl demanding the D create at least 2 turnovers in case Brady throws his 2 INTs when he throws 40+ times against good or great Ds. Everything is about ignoring Brady and his choice of running the offense. If you aren't All Pro, you aren't in the Circle of Trust, which may be part of BB's approach to fix Brady this offseason. 

    No more binkies. We've had too many seasons of binkies.

    The fact is, Brady and the strategy, derived by Brady's choice to run this from the shotgun, is a massive failure yet he still thinks he can somehow get it done in that base formation. Don't deviate from the methodology, the one that works, which is patience and Brady under center.

    This shotgun preference has sucked! Sucked!  Do you really enjoy sitting back knowing that our own offense, when it doesn't score for entire halves in that crap, somehow is this infallible style?

    Brady can't go on with it.

    He can't. It's over. Deal with it. We have a 36 year old QB who blew two SBs with it and missed his chances.

    It's over.

     

     




    pats with brady and pats D=12+ wins

     

    pats without brady and pats D= 9 wins

     

     



    No idea what that means.   You offer nothing into these discussions as usual.

     

     




    What he is trying to say is that without Brady this is a mediocre team...nothing more. He's 100% correct. Does that help, dumbo?

     

     




    No, it doesn't.  Brady had a very good D from 2001-2004 with better QBing back then.

     

    Recently, the D has been younger and not as good, but he's also been worse.  How does that excuse him, dumbo?

    This doesn't even count his SB 42 meltdown with an atrocious display by he and the offense in 2007.

    Did anyone watch SB 46 in the 4th qtr when he melted down? What does the D have to do with how subpar he is running the offense?

     

     

     



    Fallacy of the day.  Brady was not "better quarterbacking" or a better quarterback from 01-04 than he has been from 2007 on.  Every bit of statistical evidence proves that.  And such a statement cannot be distilled down to winning a game (the superbowl).  There are 21 other starters on the team as well as special teams players that have a stake in the outcome.  Brady neither plays defense nor returns kicks or kicks fg's etc.  To define his effectiveness soley by a team victory or loss is ridiculous. 

     

    But I do consider the source. 




    remember also UD6 that rusty never gives any credit to the opponent

    either the pats "fail" or the opponent gets "lucky" or some other blowhard bs

    i am sure the ravens and giants d had nothing at all to do with Brady's/Offenses performance

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    I was gonna say that Brady must have stolen Rusty's girlfriend, but then I thought about it a bit and realized there's no way in hell that a world-class fashion model would ever date a guy wearing a Burger King costume.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I was gonna say that Brady must have stolen Rusty's girlfriend, but then I thought about it a bit and realized there's no way in hell that a world-class fashion model would ever date a guy wearing a Burger King costume.

     




    I was thinking you were going to go somewhere with this and the gay marriage thread.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    jints - that is always true.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

     

    Sure, the offense isn't perfect and could use some depth at certain positions, but it still seems to me that the defense has bigger weaknesses and the road to another SB ring is more dependent on improvements w/ our pass rush and defensive backs.  When trying to improve this team for another SB run - it's about building a team that can beat the likes of the 49ers, Ravens, or Giants, aka, the Patriots' kryptonite.

     

     



    Because as of right now this WR core is similar to the 06' core, except if Cadwell only played in a 3rd of the games (Slater is currently our #3 WR, really?). That didn't turn out to well last time. I don't think they need to go overboard and get an 07' O but how about an 03' one? I think all I want is 1 durable WR who can give consistent production. After that I'm perfectly happy with the TEs, OL, Brady, and RBs but the WR core is really concerning to me. Of  course if the choice came down to adding a pass rusher, an interior DT to play next to Wilfork, and a legit outside CB backup I'd take D anyday, but lets not neglect the WR core either. Imo you can fill all those needs between what's left in FA (Abraham, Nelson/Lloyd) and draft (DT, WR, CB)

     

     

     



    I don't think we had 100million $ invested in 2 of the best TE's in the LG in 2006.

     

     



    I was talking purely WR core hence why I said WR core but for one more good measure I was talking WR core

     




    Well it's a terrible comparison considering in 2006 Caldwell was our #1 "pass catcher"going into the season, followed by 35 year old Troy Brown. if we had 2 of the best PASS CATCHING TE's in 2006 then our "WR CORE" would have looked a lot better then wouldn't it????

    You need a scotch dude.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Why The Continued Obsession About Offense?

    just reading some of the responses want me to drink bourbon....lol

     
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