Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Probably one of the most moronic threads from the most moronic poster, in history.

    Welkers not here any more because he CHOSE TO LEAVE.

      He was offered equal or better money than Denver, yet couldn't pack his bags soon enough.

    If beebee didn't want him here he wouldn't have offered him a dime.  Just would have said "see ya"

    Oh, beebee wanted him here, alright.  So did Kraft.  So much so that he proclaimed to the nation that they were forced to go with their second choice.  How insulting was that?

    And what a poor second choice that was.  He's be dumped already if not for all the dead money they would have to eat.    GONE!  SEE YA!  BUB BYE.  Waste of space and cap.

    The only way that boy is going long, is extra minutes in the tub.

    You talk about ineffective in the play-offs????  Welker was the leading receiver in all of them.

    On the mend, DROPPED the one and only pass thrown to him. 

    Quit playing that trombone during the games.  You might learn something.

    Doubtful, but it's worth a shot.

    Pathetic!


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    Trying to say that BB let WW walk because he knew Edelman would be that guy is so false. If the Giants offered JE anything more than 850K he would've been a Giant this past year and not doing much there.

    Amendola was brought in to replace WW. That's why he's being paid what he is. Too bad he cannot stay healthy, cuz if he could play a full season healthy, I think BB's decision would be justified.

    BB honestly got lucky that JE didn't go to the Giants and that JE fell into his lap.

    So stop saying JE was the value and all this bs because they offered JE squat this year and were willing to let him walk too.

     

    Welker is gone because he and BB did not get along. WW didn't live the Patriot Way so BB undercut him in negotiations and WW left for Denver.  

    Check out my Pats/Sports Blog:

    http://joepatsfan.blogspot.com/

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:


    Trying to say that BB let WW walk because he knew Edelman would be that guy is so false. If the Giants offered JE anything more than 850K he would've been a Giant this past year and not doing much there.


    Amendola was brought in to replace WW. That's why he's being paid what he is. Too bad he cannot stay healthy, cuz if he could play a full season healthy, I think BB's decision would be justified.


    BB honestly got lucky that JE didn't go to the Giants and that JE fell into his lap.


    So stop saying JE was the value and all this bs because they offered JE squat this year and were willing to let him walk too.


     


    Welker is gone because he and BB did not get along. WW didn't live the Patriot Way so BB undercut him in negotiations and WW left for Denver.  


    Check out my Pats/Sports Blog:


    http://joepatsfan.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://joepatsfan.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://joepatsfan.blogspot.com/





    You got most of that correct, Joe.


     


    BB was counting on WW and TFB's friendship to keep Welker in NE.  The contract BB the GM offered was not a good offer, team wise as we witnessed last season.  That's why there is a conflict of interest between being the head coach and the GM.  The incentives offered to Welker were horrible.  WW called BB's bluff and competed for a SB while also playing on a record breaking offense...... damn it!  Lets hope Amendola can remain healthy this season and JE11 can stay health and have a another productive season. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to TFB12's comment:


    BB was counting on WW and TFB's friendship to keep Welker in NE.  The contract BB the GM offered was not a good offer, team wise as we witnessed last season.  That's why there is a conflict of interest between being the head coach and the GM.  The incentives offered to Welker were horrible.  WW called BB's bluff and competed for a SB while also playing on a record breaking offense...... damn it!  Lets hope Amendola can remain healthy this season and JE11 can stay health and have a another productive season. 





    If Amendola can play a full 16 + games at 100% I think we can see Welker type #'s from him.


    The guy is good, just cant stay on the field.


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    let's discuss why Michael Haynes left the Pats

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    Get it? It's tough to admit, I know, but this ain't some hokey sports town here, CUpcake.  

    Rusty, when you said the above you couldnt be more wrong. Boston is, and always has been a hockey town!!

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    Letting Welker walk (by lowballing him) cost the Pats a shot at the Super Bowl. 

    There's no other way to say it. 

    And I supported letting him walk at the time. 

    Welker took out our best defender and we were done. 

    Credit to him. 

    Amendola was signed to replace Welker, not Edelman. Neither Amendola or Edelman have shown they can stay healthy enough at any rate. 

    Just because a fan doesn't agree with you doesn't make him a fraud. 

    Rusty and TFB are both legit Pats fans. The rest (e.g. their personal lives) doesn't factor in. 

    TFB isn't right about everything, no one is in here. But he was largely right about Welker. 

    That said, if the Pats win a Super Bowl with Amendola and the Broncos never win one with Welker, the pendulum swings back. 

    This idea that Belichick doesn't tolerate "ego" is so ridiculous. 

    He allowed a double murderer (alleged) to sign a huge contract because he made nice with the Krafts. 

    What Belichick cannot stand is insubordination. It's his management style and it's worked for him. It doesn't make him a god.

       
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:


    Letting Welker walk (by lowballing him) cost the Pats a shot at the Super Bowl. 


    There's no other way to say it. 


    And I supported letting him walk at the time. 


    Welker took out our best defender and we were done. 


    Credit to him. 


    Amendola was signed to replace Welker, not Edelman. Neither Amendola or Edelman have shown they can stay healthy enough at any rate. 


    Just because a fan doesn't agree with you doesn't make him a fraud. 


    Rusty and TFB are both legit Pats fans. The rest (e.g. their personal lives) doesn't factor in. 


    TFB isn't right about everything, no one is in here. But he was largely right about Welker. 


    That said, if the Pats win a Super Bowl with Amendola and the Broncos never win one with Welker, the pendulum swings back. 


    This idea that Belichick doesn't tolerate "ego" is so ridiculous. 


    He allowed a double murderer (alleged) to sign a huge contract because he made nice with the Krafts. 


    What Belichick cannot stand is insubordination. It's his management style and it's worked for him. It doesn't make him a god.


       



    I agree with most everything you wrote.  Not so sure I agree about the comment if the Pats win a SB with Amendola then the pendulum swings back.  It all depends what Amendola does to help get the title.  The Pats look to have a much better defense then they have had in a very long time, that is huge!  Lets win the SB then we can all debate about the Amendola for Welker situation.  Not having Welker last year did cost the Pats a chance to play in the SB.. no doubt about it. 


    As for BB, best coach ever but he is a very stubborn coach.  It's a conflict of interest to have the coach and GM as the same person.  It's amazing how BB had a problem with Welker but seems to be fin with Gronk doing all the stuff he does. 


    I don't get into a large amount of disagreements on here.  Here are the items I had very strong opinions on....


    Letting Moss go


    Brady bad pass to Welker in the 2011 SB


    Letting Welker go


    WR corps last season


    Not drafting a TE this year.


    I think I have nailed each one of those items, except the TE draft which we will see about.


     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Letting Moss go

     

    Brady bad pass to Welker in the 2011 SB

     

    Letting Welker go

     

    WR corps last season

     

    Not drafting a TE this year.

     

    I think I have nailed each one of those items, except the TE draft which we will see about.

    [/QUOTE]

    What was the issue with letting Moss go? He started acting like an idiot that he was in Oakland.

    His attitude and actions left BB no choice imo

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Letting Moss go

     

    Brady bad pass to Welker in the 2011 SB

     

    Letting Welker go

     

    WR corps last season

     

    Not drafting a TE this year.

     

    I think I have nailed each one of those items, except the TE draft which we will see about.

    [/QUOTE]

    What was the issue with letting Moss go? He started acting like an idiot that he was in Oakland.

    His attitude and actions left BB no choice imo

    [/QUOTE]


    Moss wanted a new deal, the Pats were dragging their feet, Moss talked about it in the media and the Pats released him.  Fast forward to the playoffs with the Jets and the Jets stacked the box because they didn't have a deep threat to worry about and humiliated the Pats in the playoffs.  Had Moss been there they would have beat the Jets and the Steelers and would have faced the Packers in the SB.  Then the next season was the loss to the Giants in the SB.  Again, no deep threat.  Moss could very possibly have helped the Pats get one if not two SB victories had they extended Moss instead of letting him go.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

     

    And all along I thought Welker wasn't here because he didn't sign the contract the Pats offered him.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to pats-fan-2007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    let's discuss why Michael Haynes left the Pats

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm inclined to agree.  Haynes' departure is every bit as relevant at this point as is Welker's. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    The funniest thing about Rusty's posts is that when he's right, it's by accident, and when he's wrong, he doesn't even know it. 

    He tries to hide his own ignorance from himself.  Hence the multiple identities.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Letting Welker walk (by lowballing him) cost the Pats a shot at the Super Bowl. 

    There's no other way to say it. 

    And I supported letting him walk at the time. 

    Welker took out our best defender and we were done. 

    Credit to him. 

    Amendola was signed to replace Welker, not Edelman. Neither Amendola or Edelman have shown they can stay healthy enough at any rate. 

    Just because a fan doesn't agree with you doesn't make him a fraud. 

    Rusty and TFB are both legit Pats fans. The rest (e.g. their personal lives) doesn't factor in. 

    TFB isn't right about everything, no one is in here. But he was largely right about Welker. 

    That said, if the Pats win a Super Bowl with Amendola and the Broncos never win one with Welker, the pendulum swings back. 

    This idea that Belichick doesn't tolerate "ego" is so ridiculous. 

    He allowed a double murderer (alleged) to sign a huge contract because he made nice with the Krafts. 

    What Belichick cannot stand is insubordination. It's his management style and it's worked for him. It doesn't make him a god.

       [/QUOTE]


    I think you almost had it right. What BB really can't stand is someone that is relied on all year to make the big play, not making the big play in the Superbowl. If you ever listen to Troy Brown talk about his time with the Pats, he always comments on how he never wanted to drop a ball because he knew if he did, he was gone.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nightrider495. Show nightrider495's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to MileHighMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh, is this the reason.  Here I thought it was because BB determined that Danny Amendola was a much better player because he could "line up on the outside" and because he had "better hands".  At least that's what the Bean Queen proclaimed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mike, supposedly Belichik had the Amendola deal lined up after trying to negotiate with Wes. So Wes was the first option. However, Wes wanted twice the amount from the Patriots as what he signed for in Denver. I like Welker a lot, but he was letting things get to his head. Glad he is happy in Denver and life still goes on sans Wes Welker.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to nightrider495's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MileHighMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh, is this the reason.  Here I thought it was because BB determined that Danny Amendola was a much better player because he could "line up on the outside" and because he had "better hands".  At least that's what the Bean Queen proclaimed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mike, supposedly Belichik had the Amendola deal lined up after trying to negotiate with Wes. So Wes was the first option. However, Wes wanted twice the amount from the Patriots as what he signed for in Denver. I like Welker a lot, but he was letting things get to his head. Glad he is happy in Denver and life still goes on sans Wes Welker.

    [/QUOTE]

    While not fact, it has been widely reported that Wes brought the Boncos offer back to the Pats to match, which they declined, with the reasoning they had moved on to Amendola. 

    People that follow the team for a living, and report on such things, indicated that this was against Krafts wishes, and was 100% BB's decisions, as are most every football decision

    Clearly, BB let personal issues get in the way of a football decision. 

    I am not saying there is a second guess internally on Wes, but he signed for short money and years. Amendola is a great asset on the team, but it makes you wonder how well thought out the decision was, and what other options might have been explored 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    Why do people keep saying Welker was "low-balled"? The two offers he got from the only two teams to make him offers were not that far enough apart to  be termed "low-balled unless you want to exaggerate the discrepancy to try to forward an agenda.


    The Pats weren't lucky Edelman came back to them. Slot receivers, even NFL best slot receivers, Aren't worth a lot of money on the open market and the Pats knew that. They also know JE and the rest of the league knows BB typically pays those guys better than the league average.


    Moss was washed up by the time BB got rid of him. He wasn't worth the money nor the aggravation. He wasn't even being double teamed anymore.


    The Pats haven't lost the playoff games due to a lack of a deep threat, they lost their playoff games due to a lack of receiving diversity. Any NFL defense can stop one guy, good ones can take two guys out of the game and elite ones can take three. Since Moss got to the Pats, they have been a two, sometimes three receiver O. Before Moss got to the Pats they were a 5 receiver O and they rarely "took the top off the defense".


     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why do people keep saying Welker was "low-balled"? The two offers he got from the only two teams to make him offers were not that far enough apart to  be termed "low-balled unless you want to exaggerate the discrepancy to try to forward an agenda

    The Pats weren't lucky Edelman came back to them. Slot receivers, even NFL best slot receivers, Aren't worth a lot of money on the open market and the Pats knew that. They also know JE and the rest of the league knows BB typically pays those guys better than the league average.

    Moss was washed up by the time BB got rid of him. He wasn't worth the money nor the aggravation. He wasn't even being double teamed anymore.

    The Pats haven't lost the playoff games due to a lack of a deep threat, they lost their playoff games due to a lack of receiving diversity. Any NFL defense can stop one guy, good ones can take two guys out of the game and elite ones can take three. Since Moss got to the Pats, they have been a two, sometimes three receiver O. Before Moss got to the Pats they were a 5 receiver O and they rarely "took the top off the defense".

    [/QUOTE]

    You are totally being blind on the WW situation.

    BB offered 2/10 w BS incentives and Denver offered 2/12, at least WW had the decency to give us like 2-3 hours to match the offer, only by adding just a mere two more million to the deal. BB didn't do that so we walked. I don't know what your definition of low balling is, but I'd say that's a pretty accurate example.

    Yes, I agree slot WRs are cheap and dime a dozen in the right system. That argument would work BUT BB went out and paid Danny "Glass" Amendola a 5 year 28 mil (?) deal. Pretty cheap slot WR, eh?

    Fact is BB was willing to let JE walk too, if the Giants threw down maybe like 250-500K more in a deal. Just half a million more and Edelman would have been gone too! If BB knew JE would have given us the 100 & 1000 season that he did, JE would've been inked to this 4 year 17 M deal last off season.  

    Stop being blind on that. I agree slot WRs can be cheap and expendable but why are we paying ours 28 million then?

    Agree about Moss, the reason BB let him go was because his attitude went to the shiits and he kept BS'ing about a new deal. BB saw Gronk as the new big mismatch downfield and was willing to ride him over Moss.

    IMO the reason we lost SB 46 (beside the obvious plays: the Brady-WW drop, Nink offsides, and Manningham) was Gronk not being 100% if he is 100% we win that game no doubt in my mind

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Moss wanted a new deal, the Pats were dragging their feet, Moss talked about it in the media and the Pats released him.  Fast forward to the playoffs with the Jets and the Jets stacked the box because they didn't have a deep threat to worry about and humiliated the Pats in the playoffs.  Had Moss been there they would have beat the Jets and the Steelers and would have faced the Packers in the SB.  Then the next season was the loss to the Giants in the SB.  Again, no deep threat.  Moss could very possibly have helped the Pats get one if not two SB victories had they extended Moss instead of letting him go.

    [/QUOTE]

    They lost the SB because Gronk was not 100% and could not stretch the field down the seam.. that's why.

    In the SB also it wasn't like we got clobbered on offense, if WW catches the pass then that's the game and we win. If Nink doesn't hop offsides on the INT, probably a different game. If Gronk is 100% when TB launches the bomb to him, then I bet he snags it and its our ball inside the 20.  

    Yes, the case could be made for the 2010 season, but everyone flat out sucked vs. the Jets that day, I don't think Moss changes much.

    BB was willing to let Moss walk because they had moved to the 2 TE set to open the field with AHern and Gronk.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to soups' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The funniest thing about Rusty's posts is that when he's right, it's by accident, and when he's wrong, he doesn't even know it. 

    He tries to hide his own ignorance from himself.  Hence the multiple identities.  

    [/QUOTE]

    You have to be an inbred to think I use different board names or identities. I run from no one.  Learn it and accept it.

    Knowing Brady has to be at his best in AFC Title game or SBs for this team to win a SB is not ignorance. It's the truth.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nightrider495's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MileHighMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh, is this the reason.  Here I thought it was because BB determined that Danny Amendola was a much better player because he could "line up on the outside" and because he had "better hands".  At least that's what the Bean Queen proclaimed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mike, supposedly Belichik had the Amendola deal lined up after trying to negotiate with Wes. So Wes was the first option. However, Wes wanted twice the amount from the Patriots as what he signed for in Denver. I like Welker a lot, but he was letting things get to his head. Glad he is happy in Denver and life still goes on sans Wes Welker.

    [/QUOTE]

    While not fact, it has been widely reported that Wes brought the Boncos offer back to the Pats to match, which they declined, with the reasoning they had moved on to Amendola. 

    People that follow the team for a living, and report on such things, indicated that this was against Krafts wishes, and was 100% BB's decisions, as are most every football decision

    Clearly, BB let personal issues get in the way of a football decision. 

    I am not saying there is a second guess internally on Wes, but he signed for short money and years. Amendola is a great asset on the team, but it makes you wonder how well thought out the decision was, and what other options might have been explored 

    [/QUOTE]

    Since it was corroborated by multiple trusted sources, that's essentially how it went down and it is a fact.  

    BB was done with held to the fire by Wes Welker, a guy who had very little leverage in his position with Edelman waiting and not playing well in postseasons.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to nightrider495's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MileHighMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh, is this the reason.  Here I thought it was because BB determined that Danny Amendola was a much better player because he could "line up on the outside" and because he had "better hands".  At least that's what the Bean Queen proclaimed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mike, supposedly Belichik had the Amendola deal lined up after trying to negotiate with Wes. So Wes was the first option. However, Wes wanted twice the amount from the Patriots as what he signed for in Denver. I like Welker a lot, but he was letting things get to his head. Glad he is happy in Denver and life still goes on sans Wes Welker.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just so you know, Bustchise does not deserve a direct, genuine response.  He's the Jets troll of the board.  

    He lives here because a massive hole in his life as he lives it through the pathetic Jets organization's existence.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why do people keep saying Welker was "low-balled"? The two offers he got from the only two teams to make him offers were not that far enough apart to  be termed "low-balled unless you want to exaggerate the discrepancy to try to forward an agenda

    The Pats weren't lucky Edelman came back to them. Slot receivers, even NFL best slot receivers, Aren't worth a lot of money on the open market and the Pats knew that. They also know JE and the rest of the league knows BB typically pays those guys better than the league average.

    Moss was washed up by the time BB got rid of him. He wasn't worth the money nor the aggravation. He wasn't even being double teamed anymore.

    The Pats haven't lost the playoff games due to a lack of a deep threat, they lost their playoff games due to a lack of receiving diversity. Any NFL defense can stop one guy, good ones can take two guys out of the game and elite ones can take three. Since Moss got to the Pats, they have been a two, sometimes three receiver O. Before Moss got to the Pats they were a 5 receiver O and they rarely "took the top off the defense".

    [/QUOTE]

    You are totally being blind on the WW situation.

    BB offered 2/10 w BS incentives and Denver offered 2/12, at least WW had the decency to give us like 2-3 hours to match the offer, only by adding just a mere two more million to the deal. BB didn't do that so we walked. I don't know what your definition of low balling is, but I'd say that's a pretty accurate example.

    Yes, I agree slot WRs are cheap and dime a dozen in the right system. That argument would work BUT BB went out and paid Danny "Glass" Amendola a 5 year 28 mil (?) deal. Pretty cheap slot WR, eh?

    Fact is BB was willing to let JE walk too, if the Giants threw down maybe like 250-500K more in a deal. Just half a million more and Edelman would have been gone too! If BB knew JE would have given us the 100 & 1000 season that he did, JE would've been inked to this 4 year 17 M deal last off season.  

    Stop being blind on that. I agree slot WRs can be cheap and expendable but why are we paying ours 28 million then?

    Agree about Moss, the reason BB let him go was because his attitude went to the shiits and he kept BS'ing about a new deal. BB saw Gronk as the new big mismatch downfield and was willing to ride him over Moss.

    IMO the reason we lost SB 46 (beside the obvious plays: the Brady-WW drop, Nink offsides, and Manningham) was Gronk not being 100% if he is 100% we win that game no doubt in my mind

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not the one being blind on Welker, the guy wasn't worth the money Denver payed him and who knows if the incentives were BS. 2 mill difference when you are talking that much money isn't low balling.

    Ammendola is supposed to be more than a slot receiver and at 5/28, he was much cheaper than Welker at 2/12 with the possibility of much more production.

    Fact is BB is willing to let everyone walk if they have to have more than he is willing to pay. But He also knew whae JE was worth on the market and knew he had him at the top of his market barring some other teams idiocy. And teams don't usually go idiot over a player like JE. And in case you didn't notice, the Giants didn't go idiot over JE and they didn't offer him even 250K more and JE probably wouldn't have gone for that situation for that little extra.

    I'm not the one being blind on the slot receivers.

    The reason the Pats lost SB 46 was because their offense went through three people that year and one of them got hurt. In the previous superbowls the offense went through 6 or 7 people. Any one of them could have been hurt and the others would have been able to pick up the slack. It used to be one of the reasons the Pats O was impervious to injuries back then. It's one of the reasons the Pats were known for "next man up". An injury to one player just didn't effect the efficiency of the O like it does today. The D didn't help things either but that is another story.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not the one being blind on Welker, the guy wasn't worth the money Denver payed him and who knows if the incentives were BS. 2 mill difference when you are talking that much money isn't low balling.

    Ammendola is supposed to be more than a slot receiver and at 5/28, he was much cheaper than Welker at 2/12 with the possibility of much more production.

    Fact is BB is willing to let everyone walk if they have to have more than he is willing to pay. But He also knew whae JE was worth on the market and knew he had him at the top of his market barring some other teams idiocy. And teams don't usually go idiot over a player like JE. And in case you didn't notice, the Giants didn't go idiot over JE and they didn't offer him even 250K more and JE probably wouldn't have gone for that situation for that little extra.

    I'm not the one being blind on the slot receivers.

    The reason the Pats lost SB 46 was because their offense went through three people that year and one of them got hurt. In the previous superbowls the offense went through 6 or 7 people. Any one of them could have been hurt and the others would have been able to pick up the slack. It used to be one of the reasons the Pats O was impervious to injuries back then. It's one of the reasons the Pats were known for "next man up". An injury to one player just didn't effect the efficiency of the O like it does today. The D didn't help things either but that is another story.

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    The incentives were, they were reported to be 1300 & 1500 yards as two benchmarks and like 8 TDs. Pretty steep.

    Anyways, its not the point that the Giants didn't give JE the money. If BB valued JE at all we wouldn't have left him unsigned for as long as he did. That's too much of a risk. BB got lucky with JE. Like I said, if he knew what JE would have done he wouldn't have waited so long to sign him and offered the little amount he did.

    Like I said, your analysis of slot WRs being cheap is true but why did BB pay Amendola 5/28??? and don't give me the 'he's more than a slot WR' crap, he is used primarily as a slot guy and was going to replace WW.

    Agree about the reason for SB loss.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Why Welker Is Not Here Anymore

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
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    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
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    In response to rtuinila's comment:
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    Why do people keep saying Welker was "low-balled"? The two offers he got from the only two teams to make him offers were not that far enough apart to  be termed "low-balled unless you want to exaggerate the discrepancy to try to forward an agenda

    The Pats weren't lucky Edelman came back to them. Slot receivers, even NFL best slot receivers, Aren't worth a lot of money on the open market and the Pats knew that. They also know JE and the rest of the league knows BB typically pays those guys better than the league average.

    Moss was washed up by the time BB got rid of him. He wasn't worth the money nor the aggravation. He wasn't even being double teamed anymore.

    The Pats haven't lost the playoff games due to a lack of a deep threat, they lost their playoff games due to a lack of receiving diversity. Any NFL defense can stop one guy, good ones can take two guys out of the game and elite ones can take three. Since Moss got to the Pats, they have been a two, sometimes three receiver O. Before Moss got to the Pats they were a 5 receiver O and they rarely "took the top off the defense".

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    You are totally being blind on the WW situation.

    BB offered 2/10 w BS incentives and Denver offered 2/12, at least WW had the decency to give us like 2-3 hours to match the offer, only by adding just a mere two more million to the deal. BB didn't do that so we walked. I don't know what your definition of low balling is, but I'd say that's a pretty accurate example.

    Yes, I agree slot WRs are cheap and dime a dozen in the right system. That argument would work BUT BB went out and paid Danny "Glass" Amendola a 5 year 28 mil (?) deal. Pretty cheap slot WR, eh?

    Fact is BB was willing to let JE walk too, if the Giants threw down maybe like 250-500K more in a deal. Just half a million more and Edelman would have been gone too! If BB knew JE would have given us the 100 & 1000 season that he did, JE would've been inked to this 4 year 17 M deal last off season.  

    Stop being blind on that. I agree slot WRs can be cheap and expendable but why are we paying ours 28 million then?

    Agree about Moss, the reason BB let him go was because his attitude went to the shiits and he kept BS'ing about a new deal. BB saw Gronk as the new big mismatch downfield and was willing to ride him over Moss.

    IMO the reason we lost SB 46 (beside the obvious plays: the Brady-WW drop, Nink offsides, and Manningham) was Gronk not being 100% if he is 100% we win that game no doubt in my mind

     

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    I'm not the one being blind on Welker, the guy wasn't worth the money Denver payed him and who knows if the incentives were BS. 2 mill difference when you are talking that much money isn't low balling.

    Ammendola is supposed to be more than a slot receiver and at 5/28, he was much cheaper than Welker at 2/12 with the possibility of much more production.

    Fact is BB is willing to let everyone walk if they have to have more than he is willing to pay. But He also knew whae JE was worth on the market and knew he had him at the top of his market barring some other teams idiocy. And teams don't usually go idiot over a player like JE. And in case you didn't notice, the Giants didn't go idiot over JE and they didn't offer him even 250K more and JE probably wouldn't have gone for that situation for that little extra.

    I'm not the one being blind on the slot receivers.

    The reason the Pats lost SB 46 was because their offense went through three people that year and one of them got hurt. In the previous superbowls the offense went through 6 or 7 people. Any one of them could have been hurt and the others would have been able to pick up the slack. It used to be one of the reasons the Pats O was impervious to injuries back then. It's one of the reasons the Pats were known for "next man up". An injury to one player just didn't effect the efficiency of the O like it does today. The D didn't help things either but that is another story.

    [/QUOTE]

    Here is the difference:

    Back then, Brady didn't have HOF talent around him, so the drop off for the next man up wasn't big.   Since 2007 he's had HOF talent, whether it be Moss, Welker or Gronk, and when he doesn't have it, he looks lost since he has played favorites and failed to develop a rapport with the non-star WRs/TEs.

    To me, that is on Brady because he's leaned too heavily on the great skills of those players, ignoring others, and making it very easy on himself during the season.

    It's exactly why he's lost those brilliant, but subtle QB skills he basically invented here with BB/Weis earlier in his career. Weis must be shaking his head watching Brady in January nowadays.  

    The simple concept of hitting a checkdown is something he refuses to do, for example.  When was the last time an RB was blocking on a pass play and he swung it out to the RB into the flat?  He just won't do it. He's always looking way down field to make the flashy play.

    No one can even name when he used a checkdown to make a play, because it just doesn't anymore.

    Losing Gronk or any HOF talent that surrounds Brady is clearly a factor and unfortunate, but it's also a major excuse.  If Brady lost a favorite weapon say like a Branch back in the day, it wouldn't compromise him or the team's chances of winning.  He would never play favorites back in the day.

    Since blowing up at BB after the 2006 season and demanding all world talent at WR and TE, he's gotten as much as any QB in the league overall, but he's let the team done himself as much as any player on the team.

    Stop making excuses and just call it like it is.   The best move ever, moving forward for Brady to find himself again in the postseason was taking away the addiction known as Welker.

     

     

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