Wilfork and depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Wilfork and depth

    He has played multiple years....shouldn't we have been more prepared for a loss to injury? I understand the newer guys MAY do fine....but such an important position why be so lean there?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    You can't prepare with great backups when you're struggling to provide decent starters.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    We've had the security in the past (Love, Wright, Brace was suppose to be that guy, G Warren). This is actually the first year I can think of that they didn't have that extra player on the roster who could fill his role in a jam. Actually this is the first time I can remember we didn't have at least 5-6 players who could play DT or at least hybrid DT/DE. Yeah they really shot themselves in the foot this offseason which is horrible considering the great depth of DTs in this years draft. (and no Jones and Vellano is at the bottom of the chart for the draft I'm talking day 1/2 type of guys). Now there are a couple of good NT/DT types in next years draft I'm praying they try to invest in one.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth


    just seems it wasn't a intelligent risk...based on Wilforks length of service,age, weight.....kind of like not having a backup for Brady

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    Different cirmumstances this year. We had like 15 DE/OLB types in here and all these backups at the Safety position(Ebner, T.Wilson, Harmon)  They had in a bunch of D.Lineman that they cut that I thought were good. I would have liked to have Benard now.

    Its not like most of us werent asking about it all offseason. One by one, our depth left the building and no replacememnt came. If they put all their chips into this CFL guy Armstead, that was obviously a mistake. Now its a desperate move. I just dont see why it was so hard to bring in some decent undrafted guys like we always do. I mean just plug another 350 lb guy in there and see what he can do. There are plenty every year. Will they work out, maybe not but Hey, atleast you tried.

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to Iceman4's comment:


    just seems it wasn't a intelligent risk...based on Wilforks length of service,age, weight.....kind of like not having a backup for Brady



    I agree it wasn't a smart risk but I wouldn't compare it to having a backup for Brady. I mean if Brady goes down it's pretty much over. Not to mention QB backups don't get playing time so it's really difficult to have a good replacement lined up and anyone who's good enough to start typically is. DT on the other hand, even the 4th DT on a team gets playing time so you can have a younger guy with less experience to develop but still have some experience just in case or have an aging vet who might not be able to be a full starter anymore (in terms of reps) on the team that can give you starter quality plays. In that case you can give them more plays and sub for them when they get winded decreasing the amount of dropoff. But, like I said this is the first year I've seen the Pats have nether for Vince waiting in the wings which is strange to say the least. It would make sense to have both Vellano and Jones on the team to develop and have Wilfork and Kelly start provided that had that extra guy with experience (either younger with talent or aging on the backside) who could then step up and not make rook mistakes if either starter went down.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    You can't prepare with great backups when you're struggling to provide decent starters.

     




    Now that's a fair statement.  I mean, obviously, our starters barely qualify as "decent", over the past twelve years.  All we have to do is look at the team's overall production during that period of time, to see that this is true.  I mean, come on now, 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl wins, and a couple more AFC Championship games.  If that doesn't support the notion that our GM provides only marginally talented players, I don't know what does.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.




    No, No, No... you didn't get the memo... if you don't have an All Pro backing up an All Pro then  Pat's weren't prepared and their roster is dogsh*t.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.



    First Francis and Forston are not on the active roster. Little hard to be considered depth if you aren't even allowed to suit up for a game.

    Second Vellano and Jones are rooks and don't have the experience to take over as starting replacement for a full season. You could say who cares but rooks always hit walls, make rook mistakes that guys even with 2 years under their belt don't typically make, and are vastly unknowns during the season. They are good guys to have on the roster to develop but not the type of guys you want taking major snaps for the legnth of the season. Even Love and Deadrick had G Warren in front of them giving them time to develop before having to take on more considerable roles.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.

     




     

    No, No, No... you didn't get the memo... if you don't have an All Pro backing up an All Pro then  Pat's weren't prepared and their roster is dogsh*t.




    We're just trying to find all-pro starters much less having all-pro backups.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.

     

     




     

     

    No, No, No... you didn't get the memo... if you don't have an All Pro backing up an All Pro then  Pat's weren't prepared and their roster is dogsh*t.




    We're just trying to find all-pro starters much less having all-pro backups.

     




    You are right babe the roster s*cks. Solder/mankins/Seabass/Connelly/Wendell all s*ck

    All the skill players s*ck

    The front 7 s*cks

    talib/dennard s*ck & s*ck

    53 players who all s*ck

    If i were brady i would demand a trade. Obviously they have ZERO talent around him.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.




     I think the problem is all the depth left in one offseason and they werent that good anyway. I dont have a problem with guys on the roster. H3ll I didnt even know we had a C.Jones on the roster until I saw him on the field. My only gripe would be how good is the depth when BB was swapping out player after player 1 week before the season. Kind of would have liked for them to have it together before then. So I think smart fans recognize that. All we are doing is swapping out one scrub for the next at this stage.  we still winning now so no biggie yet.

    All in all, I guess what Im saying is that this problem didnt occur this year. We are having issues because Brace was a bust. Deaderick couldnt stay healthy. Love couldnt keep his weight down and had an illness. I mean 2 years ago we had about 3 or 4 backup lineman who didnt play at all until week 10. Before that it was just Love and Fork. BB has had trouble restocking our D line ever since he stopped picking them in the 1st. He has had mixed results and NOW we are just seeing the worse case scenario. The D lineman depth has BEEN an issue.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    many will argue the point, but this circles back to the draft misses at DB, and so many picks used to try and correct the misses...the DL has been neglected for the past 3-4 years in the draft...and the Pats are filling that void with lower round draft choices(Deadrick)...low cost free agents (Kelly)....other teams cast offs (Jones).....UDFA's (Vellano, Fortson, Francis)....

    isnt that the crux of the BB complaints with the draft?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.

     

     




     

     

    No, No, No... you didn't get the memo... if you don't have an All Pro backing up an All Pro then  Pat's weren't prepared and their roster is dogsh*t.




    We're just trying to find all-pro starters much less having all-pro backups.

     

     




     

    You are right babe the roster s*cks. Solder/mankins/Seabass/Connelly/Wendell all s*ck

    All the skill players s*ck

    The front 7 s*cks

    talib/dennard s*ck & s*ck

    53 players who all s*ck

    If i were brady i would demand a trade. Obviously they have ZERO talent around him.




    I think you're being a tad too critical.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    many will argue the point, but this circles back to the draft misses at DB, and so many picks used to try and correct the misses...the DL has been neglected for the past 3-4 years in the draft...and the Pats are filling that void with lower round draft choices(Deadrick)...low cost free agents (Kelly)....other teams cast offs (Jones).....UDFA's (Vellano, Fortson, Francis)....

    isnt that the crux of the BB complaints with the draft?




    ^ This.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    Can someone explain why guys like Love, Deaderick or Brace are considered depth for Vince, but Vellano, Jones, Francis and Forston are not?  There are maybe 1 or 2 guys like Vince in the NFL so losing him was going to hurt regardless of who else is on the roster.

     

     




     

     

    No, No, No... you didn't get the memo... if you don't have an All Pro backing up an All Pro then  Pat's weren't prepared and their roster is dogsh*t.




    We're just trying to find all-pro starters much less having all-pro backups.

     

     

     




     

     

    You are right babe the roster s*cks. Solder/mankins/Seabass/Connelly/Wendell all s*ck

    All the skill players s*ck

    The front 7 s*cks

    talib/dennard s*ck & s*ck

    53 players who all s*ck

    If i were brady i would demand a trade. Obviously they have ZERO talent around him.




    I think you're being a tad too critical.

     




    Nah, just to see if I could fit in with the negative Nancy crowd after being a Harry Homer for all these years.

    was i over the top?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    He has played multiple years....shouldn't we have been more prepared for a loss to injury? I understand the newer guys MAY do fine....but such an important position why be so lean there?




    IMO the answer is a big YES.

    Apparently, that is so irrational that someone called me names when I claimed validation for saying way back that they should pick up another good DT after picking up Kelly (an NFL-proven DT or a rookie with solid porential). The guy brought up that VW does not get injured.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    Well you really are NOT preparing to replace VW when you are winning and picking near the bottom of drafts unless you get lucky and land a Geno Atkins by accident later in the draft.

    VW was a top 10-15 talent that miraculously fell in the Pats lap at 21.

    That being said I too thought the Pats might draft a DT closer to the 1st round at some point in the past few years.

    As for this season however, I think you have to be "in the know" on "exactly" what was known by the team and when as to the health situations of both Love and Armstead.

    If you are the Patriots and are expecting or led to believe that Armstead would be healthy and Love's condition could be successfully managed or treated then people might not be even starting this thread right now.

    Since I do not know any of those details I have to give the Patriots organization the benefit of the doubt or else I would have to consider them a dumb organization and I simply do not. As it is Armstead may still be back and be good, we don't know. They also have a number of young kids on the team at DT so who knows how they are or will do going forward.

    It is wait and see for me.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Well you really are NOT preparing to replace VW when you are winning and picking near the bottom of drafts unless you get lucky and land a Geno Atkins by accident later in the draft.

    VW was a top 10-15 talent that miraculously fell in the Pats lap at 21.

    That being said I too thought the Pats might draft a DT closer to the 1st round at some point in the past few years.

    As for this season however, I think you have to be "in the know" on "exactly" what was known by the team and when as to the health situations of both Love and Armstead.

    If you are the Patriots and are expecting or led to believe that Armstead would be healthy and Love's condition could be successfully managed or treated then people might not be even starting this thread right now.

    Since I do not know any of those details I have to give the Patriots organization the benefit of the doubt or else I would have to consider them a dumb organization and I simply do not. As it is Armstead may still be back and be good, we don't know. They also have a number of young kids on the team at DT so who knows how they are or will do going forward.

    It is wait and see for me.



    Love I can see, but it's diabeties. It's not like it suddenly sets in one day like a cold. You would think the Pats doctors do blood work and could see it developing. To the extent they might not have known but he does take a physical with team doctors right? If so you have to believe you can't rely on him at that point and plan to bring in a guy with similar skill set just in case. Worst case is Love gets cut and you have a good 2nd option, best case Love is fine and you have great depth.

    Armstead, was a rook coming from the CFL. He's a good guy to be a 4th or 5th man on the roster (like Vellano and Jones are suppose to be) but in no way was he a 1st or even a 2nd round pick substitute as some tought around here. Also given his heart issue why would you toss all your eggs into that basket?

    Either one I could see being on the team but both must have had red flags flying out their backsides and I refuse to believe the Pats didn't know about Love and most likely told him to keep it in control at some point. All in all I'm going with bad planning on their part. Putting their eggs into a single red flag basket and crossing their fingers like they did at WR and TE. The players they wanted (Branch, Bryant) they wanted at their price and they weren't going to budge and thought we can stick anyone in and we'll be fine. I also don't think they want to use draft picks on DT's anymore because for some reason (not sure why considering how good BB has been grabbing DTs in the 1st). Maybe he thinks that a 6th round DT is as good as a late 1st round DT? Sometimes it really does feel like BB might out think himself with some of these picks believing he can bring out things in players that will give them the same value as players who are more polished and pro ready with higher talent.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Wilfork and depth

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Well you really are NOT preparing to replace VW when you are winning and picking near the bottom of drafts unless you get lucky and land a Geno Atkins by accident later in the draft.

    VW was a top 10-15 talent that miraculously fell in the Pats lap at 21.

    That being said I too thought the Pats might draft a DT closer to the 1st round at some point in the past few years.

    As for this season however, I think you have to be "in the know" on "exactly" what was known by the team and when as to the health situations of both Love and Armstead.

    If you are the Patriots and are expecting or led to believe that Armstead would be healthy and Love's condition could be successfully managed or treated then people might not be even starting this thread right now.

    Since I do not know any of those details I have to give the Patriots organization the benefit of the doubt or else I would have to consider them a dumb organization and I simply do not. As it is Armstead may still be back and be good, we don't know. They also have a number of young kids on the team at DT so who knows how they are or will do going forward.

    It is wait and see for me.

    Speculation on my part, but some of us here thought that they needed...

    1) A big body (300+) next to VW, who could put pressure on the QB from inside, when VW was doubled

    2) Another NT-type guy to back VW when he's off the field. VW will be hard to replace completely, but someone who can do 80% of what he does is still better than completely missing his presence. We've seen that on some series of plays last year that VW was not on the field.

    Kelly, I thought was a solution to #1. I guess he could be #2 every now and then, but definitely not full time. At Kelly's age, he definitely is not the future at NT.

    Armestead IMO is depth behind Kelly, for when Kelly is off the field or when Kelly is giving VW a breather. At Kelly's age, he could be groomed to take over at that spot in the future.

    The number of big bodies (315+) on the last draft, I thought, provided a rare opportunity to get a decent heavy (one with good college career) late in the first all the way to late in the second. I recognize none of the heavy kids is a sure thing, but if playing the odds, last year probably gave the Pats the best odds of getting someone for not too expensive of a price.

    The alternative approach would be to target a "sure-fire" heavy in the draft, trade up to get him.

    But if you think there is too much risk in drafting a heavy (with good history in college) between 25 and 64, shouldn't that risk assessment also apply to the "sure-fire" heavy you target between 5 to 15?

     

     

     

     
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