Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattC05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bottom line is that the Pats paid them very well and that is not something they readily do (nor should do). But that makes the Pats bad guys because they didn't beg them to take all that money?

    [/QUOTE]

    For what he's done for this team, the Pats have severely underpaid him since they drafted him; and in the past couple years, have leaned on him more and more until his body finally broke this past year.  And then said "hey, you're injured, we don't want to pay you anymore" when it was BB's decision to play him for 85-90% of snaps for years on end (which is an INSANE workload for a NT) is what got him injured.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    You just have to be kidding. Stop pulling my leg. Poor Vince. He only got 25 mil guaranteed. sniff sniff.

    Guys get old and are dropped from fat contracts in the later years all the time in the NFL. It's understood by both sides. That's why the guaranteed money is the real deal.

    This "oh the poor exploited player" hand wringing is nearly unbearable to endure.

    [/QUOTE]


    So what if Brady had asked for his release last year instead of working with the pats. Would you be singing the same tune, for him to suck it up and move on?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattC05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bottom line is that the Pats paid them very well and that is not something they readily do (nor should do). But that makes the Pats bad guys because they didn't beg them to take all that money?

    [/QUOTE]

    For what he's done for this team, the Pats have severely underpaid him since they drafted him; and in the past couple years, have leaned on him more and more until his body finally broke this past year.  And then said "hey, you're injured, we don't want to pay you anymore" when it was BB's decision to play him for 85-90% of snaps for years on end (which is an INSANE workload for a NT) is what got him injured.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    You just have to be kidding. Stop pulling my leg. Poor Vince. He only got 25 mil guaranteed. sniff sniff.

    Guys get old and are dropped from fat contracts in the later years all the time in the NFL. It's understood by both sides. That's why the guaranteed money is the real deal.

    This "oh the poor exploited player" hand wringing is nearly unbearable to endure.

    [/QUOTE]


    So what if Brady had asked for his release last year instead of working with the pats. Would you be singing the same tune, for him to suck it up and move on?

    [/QUOTE]


    I would view it exactly the same way. The team should do what's best for the team. I'm not going to cry for Brady who along with Gisele has mega-millions.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't like to see Brady play elsewhere, as I wouldn't have liked to see Williams, Russell or Orr play elsewhere. (Though Orr and the Bruins were a victim of Eagleson.)

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.    

     

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well bah f**cking bah.  Glad to see that you've opted to just place all into one neat little pile so that you can stereotype, presume and assume.  You don't know sh_it from shinola about any of us.  So just because we happen to disagree on an issue or a philosophical view doesn't mean that we all fit quite nicely into your own narrow view of who each of us might be.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    Prolate, your brown eyes are showing...if you owned the Pats and you had an asset...and trust me, that's what every team in the NFL, or CFL for that matter, views each player... and they had badly slipped in level of performance and were also injured, you'd be trying to cut cost to build assets up somewhere else for the good of the firm...business is business...humanity has nothing to do with it....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.    

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I see you're just as out to lunch as pro. Funny.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well bah f**cking bah. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ^ LMAO

    Guy got Geez's dander up!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well bah f**cking bah.  Glad to see that you've opted to just place all into one neat little pile so that you can stereotype, presume and assume.  You don't know sh_it from shinola about any of us.  So just because we happen to disagree on an issue or a philosophical view doesn't mean that we all fit quite nicely into your own narrow view of who each of us might be.

    [/QUOTE]


    Geez, let me tell you......

    I have had numerous discussions with many Canadians. Basically they are to the world as Rusty is to this board. LMAO

    A bunch of nobodys with no clue that want to tell their betters how it should be done. Absolutely comical.

    Nice people? Absolutely. Got a clue. Not the slightest.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     



    Well bah f**cking bah. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ^ LMAO

    Guy got Geez's dander up!

    [/QUOTE]

    Fortunately that's not all that can get up these days.  <badum, boom>

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Actually, nothing is just business.  Human beings are still involved and how you treat people may not matter to your wallet but it does to your soul.  

    Americans increasingly forget that.  It's one reason why people down there feel so bad about their country. What they don't realize is that it's their own attitudes that cause their discontent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well bah f**cking bah. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ^ LMAO

    Guy got Geez's dander up!

    [/QUOTE]

    Fortunately that's not all that can up these days.  <badum, boom>

    [/QUOTE]


    Some of us geezers are blessed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Actually, nothing is just business.  Human beings are still involved and how you treat people may not matter to your wallet but it does to your soul.  

    Americans increasingly forget that.  It's one reason why people down there feel so bad about their country. What they don't realize is that it's their own attitudes that cause their discontent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I like his football talk, but when he goes into politics/canada stuff he leaves his brain at the door.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    You just have to be kidding. Stop pulling my leg. Poor Vince. He only got 25 mil guaranteed. sniff sniff.

    Guys get old and are dropped from fat contracts in the later years all the time in the NFL. It's understood by both sides. That's why the guaranteed money is the real deal.

    This "oh the poor exploited player" hand wringing is nearly unbearable to endure.

    [/QUOTE]

    You can mock if you want, but by the standards of the NFL, Wilfork was a bargain for every single season he's played for the Pats.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that management should keep him at his current contract; for right now, his cap hit is way too high for what he's able to do.  But I can see Wilfork's point of view also; he has sacrificed a lot for this team; he could likely have made double what he has if he had held out in the last year of his rookie deal and forced the Pats to cut him THEN.  Instead, he played out the full 6 seasons, and then gave them a hometown discount for his one and only payday in the league.

    The Pats should cut Wilfork loose if he doesn't want to extend, and the fanbase should have nothing but praise for the man, even at the end.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to mellymel3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Prolate, your brown eyes are showing...if you owned the Pats and you had an asset...and trust me, that's what every team in the NFL, or CFL for that matter, views each player... and they had badly slipped in level of performance and were also injured, you'd be trying to cut cost to build assets up somewhere else for the good of the firm...business is business...humanity has nothing to do with it....

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't mind asking him to restructure or cutting him.  If I owned the team, I wouldn't pay him $8 million this year either.  Everyone knows, however, that the longer the Pats hold on to Wilfork, the tougher it's going to be for him to find an alternative deal. The Pats can refuse to release him to put pressure on him to agree to their offer or, if they want to be vindictive, to punish him for not accepting their offer by waiting to cut him until late this summer after most teams have their rosters filled and Wilfork may no longer be able to find a job.  They could even start to reduce what they are offering him as the weeks go by and the market for free agents dries up to put a squeeze on him and force him to choose between an ever-declining offer and the risk of being unemployed.  All these are hard ball tactics to keep him from seeking alternatives and try to force him into signing a low-priced deal.  The Pats are perfectly in their rights to do all of that, but I personally think it would be crappy for them to do so.  They don't need to release Vince right away if they are still negotiating in good faith.  But I do think Vince is within his rights to ask for a release and I would hope the Patriots would have the decency to release him soon enough for him to explore other options rather than driving the guy hard into the ground. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    Never mind Canada and the US in all this discussion of systems and attitudes.  Has anyone ever travelled to the poorer places in the world?  If you have, you'll understand where I'm coming from.  In my life, I've been to some places (South America, Russia, among others)  that would put this whole argument into perspective rather quickly.  We're talking about athletes being paid handsomely to play a game here.  Whatever "mistreatment" they suffer at the hands of the evil NFL owners is still better than trying to make a living in a country where you don't even know where your next day's pay is coming from.  Not to take shots at the Canadians or Americans since I've spent a lot of time in both countries and love both-- but by and large, very few in either country appreciate just how lucky they are to live where they live and just how bad some people in this world have it.  In the grand scheme, Vince Wilfork has a lot to be grateful for and his evil employer generously set up his family for generations no matter how badly this marriage ends.      

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well bah f**cking bah.  Glad to see that you've opted to just place all into one neat little pile so that you can stereotype, presume and assume.  You don't know sh_it from shinola about any of us.  So just because we happen to disagree on an issue or a philosophical view doesn't mean that we all fit quite nicely into your own narrow view of who each of us might be.

    [/QUOTE]

    +2

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Actually, nothing is just business.  Human beings are still involved and how you treat people may not matter to your wallet but it does to your soul.  

    Americans increasingly forget that.  It's one reason why people down there feel so bad about their country. What they don't realize is that it's their own attitudes that cause their discontent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I like his football talk, but when he goes into politics/canada stuff he leaves his brain at the door.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

     [/QUOTE]


    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

    [/QUOTE]


    And your point is?  That Prolate's arguments are less valid because some percentage of Canadians in Quebec wish to have more political autonomy?   That's a good one.  You really smacked him down, Homer.

     

     

      

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Actually, nothing is just business.  Human beings are still involved and how you treat people may not matter to your wallet but it does to your soul.  

    Americans increasingly forget that.  It's one reason why people down there feel so bad about their country. What they don't realize is that it's their own attitudes that cause their discontent. 



    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

    [/QUOTE]

    Quebec is still part of Canada, and I'm still an American. Wink

    I had the same criticism for America when I lived there.  You hear it when people say like Salcon does above, well I lost my job and pension so if someone else loses theirs, that's just the way business works.  Well yes and no.  Business doesn't have to work that way.  But if everyone accepts that it's okay for business's to treat workers like crap, business will do that.  It's not good or bad--it's just what business will do because businesses (especially big public ones) exist solely to maximize profit. The only check on them are public attitudes and the law (which tend to go hand in hand).  We've become too accepting of this "it's just business" (and therefore it's okay) attitude.  Sometimes we should stand up and say, "No, I understand that businesses need to be profitable, but it's not okay to bail on pensions that were promised to workers when they started their jobs 25 years ago and then pay your executives tens of millions for saving the company money."  Americans have become too accepting of shabby treatment in the name of business . . . and then they wonder why there are no good jobs left.  Maybe it has something to do, not only with letting "businesses" walk all over you, but with cheering when they do.

     Oh . . .and I also enjoy your posts too.  And ATJ's for that matter . . . 

    I just find it petty when everyone starts jumping all over Wilfork for requesting a release in this situation.  As I said, it's fine for the Pats to cut him, but I do think he deserves the decent treatment of a prompt release so he can try to find a different job. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to MattC05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    You just have to be kidding. Stop pulling my leg. Poor Vince. He only got 25 mil guaranteed. sniff sniff.

    Guys get old and are dropped from fat contracts in the later years all the time in the NFL. It's understood by both sides. That's why the guaranteed money is the real deal.

    This "oh the poor exploited player" hand wringing is nearly unbearable to endure.

    [/QUOTE]

    You can mock if you want, but by the standards of the NFL, Wilfork was a bargain for every single season he's played for the Pats.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that management should keep him at his current contract; for right now, his cap hit is way too high for what he's able to do.  But I can see Wilfork's point of view also; he has sacrificed a lot for this team; he could likely have made double what he has if he had held out in the last year of his rookie deal and forced the Pats to cut him THEN.  Instead, he played out the full 6 seasons, and then gave them a hometown discount for his one and only payday in the league.

    The Pats should cut Wilfork loose if he doesn't want to extend, and the fanbase should have nothing but praise for the man, even at the end.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mellymel3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Prolate, your brown eyes are showing...if you owned the Pats and you had an asset...and trust me, that's what every team in the NFL, or CFL for that matter, views each player... and they had badly slipped in level of performance and were also injured, you'd be trying to cut cost to build assets up somewhere else for the good of the firm...business is business...humanity has nothing to do with it....

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't mind asking him to restructure or cutting him.  If I owned the team, I wouldn't pay him $8 million this year either.  Everyone knows, however, that the longer the Pats hold on to Wilfork, the tougher it's going to be for him to find an alternative deal. The Pats can refuse to release him to put pressure on him to agree to their offer or, if they want to be vindictive, to punish him for not accepting their offer by waiting to cut him until late this summer after most teams have their rosters filled and Wilfork may no longer be able to find a job.  They could even start to reduce what they are offering him as the weeks go by and the market for free agents dries up to put a squeeze on him and force him to choose between an ever-declining offer and the risk of being unemployed.  All these are hard ball tactics to keep him from seeking alternatives and try to force him into signing a low-priced deal.  The Pats are perfectly in their rights to do all of that, but I personally think it would be crappy for them to do so.  They don't need to release Vince right away if they are still negotiating in good faith.  But I do think Vince is within his rights to ask for a release and I would hope the Patriots would have the decency to release him soon enough for him to explore other options rather than driving the guy hard into the ground. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well I don't disagree entirely with your premise but it IS what he signed up for when he signed that contract and refused to lower the deal...it's bad business personally both ways, but the Pats have never shown any other way of dealing with players...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Never mind Canada and the US in all this discussion of systems and attitudes.  Has anyone ever travelled to the poorer places in the world?  If you have, you'll understand where I'm coming from.  In my life, I've been to some places (South America, Russia, amon others)  that would put this whole argument into perspective rather quickly.  We're talking about athletes being paid handsomely to play a game here.  Whatever "mistreatment" they suffer at the hands of the evil NFL owners is still better than trying to make a living in a country where you don't even know where your next day's pay is coming from.  Not to take shots at the Canadians or Americans since I've spent a lot of time in both countries and love both-- but by and large, very few in either country can undersand just how lucky they are to live where they live and just how bad some people in this world have it.  In the grand scheme, Vince Wilfork has a lot to be grateful for and his evil employer generously set up his family for generations no badly how bad this marriage ends.      

    [/QUOTE]


    I know from whence you speak.  A week in Tunisia working with local police (long before the words Arab Spring were ever strung together) opened my eyes wider than any conceptual discussion ever could.  One simple sentence uttered in passing by the police lieutenant assigned to work with me:  "90% of our people work from sunrise to sunset just to earn enough to eat."

    Are contract negotiations between NFL teams and their players bare-knuckle tough?  Absolutely, but that is the business that the players have chosen to be in.  They at least had a choice.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Actually, nothing is just business.  Human beings are still involved and how you treat people may not matter to your wallet but it does to your soul.  

    Americans increasingly forget that.  It's one reason why people down there feel so bad about their country. What they don't realize is that it's their own attitudes that cause their discontent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [short break from the thread topic to respond to this tangential post]

    Prolate, you are, IMO one of the best posters on this board.   However, every once in a while you lapse into this Canada>America treatise that I find laughable.  While the US suffered through a civil war 150 years ago, Oh Canada nearly lost their largest province (Quebec) to a separatist movement a mere 20 years ago.  Quebec's population is roughly equivalent to everything west of the Rockies in the US.   Yeah, folks in Quebec think they've found utopia.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I like his football talk, but when he goes into politics/canada stuff he leaves his brain at the door.

    [/QUOTE]

    Although Canada and America have much in common in terms of systems and values the evolution of the  two countries is much different as are their basic structures. If the US was larger in area but with only 1/10th of the people it would also be much different than it currently is even without any cultural changes.

    It's an illusion to say one is better. They're too different to make that direct a comparison, while still being similar enough to become largely integrated.

    While I doubt Quebecers would call what they have Utopia, it's certainly a highly functioning society within a society, that has it's own language, culture, ancestry and different legal and political systems from most of the rest of North America. It feels more European or some sort of hybrid culturally as vague as that is. Separatism in Quebec was always more emotional, wanting recognition of being different, which they are, than practical.

    The reality is if 80% of Quebecers wanted their own country it would happen fairly organically. But when it's generally only about 40-45% and many of them of an older demographic it's a little more difficult.

    And 20 years ago is a long time as different generations don't always see these things the same way.

    Quebec is worth a visit if you haven't been there. Quebec City is a beautiful city, very friendly people, they have the largest winter carnival in the world and in Montreal you will find more beautiful women in one place than you thought possible. It's like they have a by-law that only allows beautiful women to enter the city or something. I mean....I expect they make allowances for connecting flights at the airport...

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to expertmike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    I think I understand perfectly well what you're saying.  All I'm saying is business is never "just business."  I know a lot of business people like to say that and try to make it that . . . but there's always more involved, and it's really just a choice whether, as a business man, you want to consider those other things important or not.  I don't think the NFL has to change its processes or get lawyers or agents or free agency out of the picture.  That's never going to happen, and it really shouldn't happen because as anyone who is in business knows you need all that to get solid deals done when that much money is at stake. But all that doesn't stop Bob Kraft from taking Vince's situation into consideration as well as the team's and making a decision that's a good compromise for both, even if it's not absolutely the most advantageous for Kraft.  It's not about loyalty, it's about decency.  

     

    Prolate, you're right but you're never going to convince the majority of U.S. sheep to question their "system".  They're victims, assuming they're young with their futures exported to China "because it's just a business",  but here they can fantasize that they're BB or Kraft or the Corporation, and they're happy to throw what were top employees under the bus.    

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sadly, I think there's a lot of truth to what you say.  The amount of anger in the US always surprises me when I come back (and I come back a lot).  It's the most powerful country in the world and everyone seems to think they're being screwed by someone else.  Eveyone feels a need to carry guns around, like they're constantly under threat.  You can tell me this is healthy, but having lived elsewhere, I don't think it is.  It's a little sick to me . . . and really kind of sad, because I think America is, in its essence, a lot better than that, but I also think something has gone terribly off track. 

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    I always liked Vince (what was there not to like?).   But now I wonder if he's like that kid in class that never took notes for the whole semester and now he's surprised that there will be a test on the material that he should have learned.

    His entire career has been under the BB regime.  He's seen good/great players come and go.  Has he been paying attention?  The minute he went onto season-ending IR he should have known that his Pats career would undergo a dramatic shift if it continued at all.

     

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