Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    I think your problem in all this is that you ignore the cap. You somehow apply normal business principles to something that is in no way a normal business.

    A team's greatest loyalty should lie with the fans. They pay all the bills. It is the team's obligation to put the very best product out on the field that they can. If that means cutting somebody or offering a restructure, because of the finite cap, then so be it.

     

     



    I'm not ignoring the cap. If they offered him a reasonable restructure and he said no by all means it's a business just cut him. However, if they lowballed him, why do that just cut him and let him hit FA right away. The only reason to let this stuff leak is to get the fanbase on your side, the Sox do it all the time. Listen I have no problem with them cutting a guy for a business decision but how you treat players during contract talks and esp on their way out the door makes a huge difference, esp to the younger guys. I said it back during those negotiations it was short sighted of them to be so hard nose about it and down the road those tactics would come back to bite them. This is a case where that has happened as both Wilfork and Mankins won't take restructures at a time when the team needs extra space and now they will have to lose a starter and replace him. Right or wrong that's what is happening and that's all I'm saying, maybe the first time they went hard into those talks was the best short term move because they might have saved some coin but long term I think it hurt them.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Restructuring is part of the business.  Vince knows this and is playing the only real card that he has by asking for his release.  The Pats know exactly what they are doing and if Vince doesn't know what he's doing shame on him.

    I do not get this 'loyalty' stuff.  Do the fans on this board want to win or not?  You can't have it both ways. Either loyalty to one player (no matter who it is) is top priority or winning is the top priority.

    For me, it's winning and if that means restructuring VW then so be it.  Or cutting him.  Or trading him. Or hiring him as team mascot. 

    Do what you need to do BB to continue to do what is best for the team.  End of conversation IMO.,



    I don't understand why it's a bad thing for him to ask for his release. If the Pats want to pay him less, it's certainly in his best interest to be able to shop around the league to see if some team will pay him more than the Pats will.  The CBA gives the teams all the power in this situation because they can walk away from the contract they signed with the player, but the player can't do the same.  I know those are the rules that were agreed to, and so the Pats are under no obligation to release him and can keep him off the market either to try to pressure him into signing their deal or (somewhat vindictively) to make him pay for not signing it. I just don't see how anyone can blame Wilfork for requesting a release in this situation, which is something he has every right to do. He has a deal with the Pats to be paid $8 million next year.  If the Pats don't want to pay it, they have every right to cut Wilfork.  But hanging on him to him to keep him off the market is a hardball negotiating tactic.  Fine to say playing hardball is okay, but then you can't complain when a player like Mankins refuses to sign his tender (also something perfectly in his rights to do).  They are in some way equivalent hardball tactics, though honestly the team has far more power in these situations, so I find the players' attempts to balance out the power dynamic a little less of a hardball tactic than the owners' pressing a big advantage they already have and thereby negatively impacting an individual's future earning potential. 

     

     




    Neither side is right... both sides are within their rights.



    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    [/QUOTE]

    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Until we know exactly what is being asked of him and if there is a time frame associated it is tough to judge.

    From Vince's perspective if he has been given an ultimatum I don't blame him for wanting out now. From the Pats perspective it is tough to release a guy who has demanded it. That doesn't set a good precedent... opens the door for other players digruntled with their contracts to do the same.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    That is funny. He was probably going to be cut anyhow.

    He wasn't/isn't worth the cash they gave him, even if he is one of my favorite players. 

    He just isn't disruptive. I'd rather a 'b' space eater, and 'a' pass rusher than vice versa. 



    +1

    overall we need to build a much more disruptive DL. It has to compliment what we added in the secondary. If by chance browner comes here with the addition of revis, that opens things up big time for the front 7 to be more aggressive and disruptive. Keeping Kelly and siliga both of whom are big guys and adding a pass rushing freak opposite jones, another big guy later in the draft is what I want. Kony ealy anyone?

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:



    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 




    Until we know exactly what is being asked of him and if there is a time frame associated it is tough to judge.

    From Vince's perspective if he has been given an ultimatum I don't blame him for wanting out now. From the Pats perspective it is tough to release a guy who has demanded it. That doesn't set a good precedent... opens the door for other players digruntled with their contracts to do the same.



Except I think Wilfork is fine with his contract.  It's the Pats who are "disgruntled" with his contract and want to change it. I know what you're saying--you don't want to signal to players that you're a pushover.  At the same time if you signal that you're a hardarse, expect some players and their agents to play hardarse more often too.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

 

 

 
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats


    Wow, How quickly fans turn on you. I am seeing shots taken at his wife and all these fans saying he is old and done!  How the h3ll do you know his status? I Happen to think he is gonna return to form. Lets revisit HOW he got hurt. He was playing on a bad ankle to help the team and then got his achilles hurt and needed to go to I/R. Our Run Defense immediately was bad.

    BB spent all kinds of resources trying to replace him. Lets not forget Wilfork honored his rookie contract despite playing great football so in his mind, why should he take a paycut. How do we know what was offered. Maybe it was a lowball but Fork has been through it all. He is athletic, played RB, QB, can throw 60 yards, catch punts, ints, etc but now we are gonna doubt him coming back healthy.

    I EXPECT the Pats to be cutthroat but I DIDNT expect the Fans to be.....wow...smh

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    Has VW been traded yet.  Please make it happen BB .  Something is better then nothing...

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:



    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 




    Until we know exactly what is being asked of him and if there is a time frame associated it is tough to judge.

    From Vince's perspective if he has been given an ultimatum I don't blame him for wanting out now. From the Pats perspective it is tough to release a guy who has demanded it. That doesn't set a good precedent... opens the door for other players digruntled with their contracts to do the same.



    Except I think Wilfork is fine with his contract.  It's the Pats who are "disgruntled" with his contract and want to change it. I know what you're saying--you don't want to signal to players that you're a pushover.  At the same time if you signal that you're a hardarse, expect some players and their agents to play hardarse more often too.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

     

     

     



  • Without knowing the details and just speculating it seems right now both sides are in a bind. It is going to be interesting to watch this play out. There was another thread a while back and the question was asked what player would you be most disappointed to lose and for me as a fan hands down it was Vince although i would understand it.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Wow, How quickly fans turn on you. I am seeing shots taken at his wife and all these fans saying he is old and done!  How the h3ll do you know his status? I Happen to think he is gonna return to form. Lets revisit HOW he got hurt. He was playing on a bad ankle to help the team and then got his achilles hurt and needed to go to I/R. Our Run Defense immediately was bad.

    BB spent all kinds of resources trying to replace him. Lets not forget Wilfork honored his rookie contract despite playing great football so in his mind, why should he take a paycut. How do we know what was offered. Maybe it was a lowball but Fork has been through it all. He is athletic, played RB, QB, can throw 60 yards, catch punts, ints, etc but now we are gonna doubt him coming back healthy.

    I EXPECT the Pats to be cutthroat but I DIDNT expect the Fans to be.....wow...smh



    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to soups's comment:

    Sorry for this mini rant, but anyone who questioned this guy's heart and/or loyalty simply hasn't been watching him play for the past decade.  He was the epitome of hard work and, in many ways, the very representation of blue collar workers throughout NE.

    He got hurt playing this game, playing it hard and fair.  That was among the most devastating of injuries a player could have, and he took the whole affair with as much grace and dignity as any player who ever played in this league.  He traveled with this team through the season and into Denver, battled a tough marriage, raised children, and made a public spectacle of Mark Sanchez on national TV.  

    Meanwhile, the same folks who are accusing him of being "weak" or "slow to recover" have already starting hanging another banner because they think Revis is enough.  It's not.  Not even close.

    There is no player on this current Pats' roster that can get, much less handle, a triple team on the line.  Not one.  And for that matter, name five other guys in this league who can handle being doubled on every, single snap they ever played in this league.  You can't.  Because there aren't five guys out there right now who get doubled or tripled on the line.  Wanna know why some of these guys had artificially inflated sack numbers? Because of Wilfork's drawing the double or triple team.

    End rant.  But seriously, how can anyone out there accuse Wilfork of being disloyal, weak, or a detriment to this team?  Get over yourselves.  Maybe you aren't old enough to remember what this team used to be in the 70s, 80s and 90s.  Just another "What have you done for me lately" mentality.



    + 1000

    Im embarresed to be part of the fanbase here at times and people wonder why trolls hang out here. Fans were Saying ALL offseason they wanted Talib,.the minute he botls to Denver, He is a bum with a bum hip and we dont want him. Then we sign one of the most hated players in N.E. history, D.Revis and everyone loves him and even at the expense of losing Fork, everyone is fine and Vince is over the hill of a sudden. Opinions are fine, but just show you know, it makes you look stupid.

    Ted Washington played effective at the nose well into his 30's but we are saying an athletic guy Vince is Done?  Hope he goes to Miami and ends his career at home. Good Luck Big Fella!

     

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

         Sounds to me like Vince is being unreasonable. As an earlier poster recommended, why not explore trading him to the Raiders for, say, a 5th round pick? Doing so does Vince a favor, in that it insures that he gets paid...and it keeps him way from from teams like the Jets, Baltimore, Miami, and Denver.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 



    That doesn't mean we have to s h!t on the person on the way out either Lifer. He was a good player, why can't we all just say it's a business decision time to move on. Why is it dump on the player everytime something like this comes up? We are all loyal to the team, but you can be loyal and respect a player on the way out you don't need to dump on them to convince yourself it's the right move.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Wow, How quickly fans turn on you. I am seeing shots taken at his wife and all these fans saying he is old and done!  How the h3ll do you know his status? I Happen to think he is gonna return to form. Lets revisit HOW he got hurt. He was playing on a bad ankle to help the team and then got his achilles hurt and needed to go to I/R. Our Run Defense immediately was bad.

    BB spent all kinds of resources trying to replace him. Lets not forget Wilfork honored his rookie contract despite playing great football so in his mind, why should he take a paycut. How do we know what was offered. Maybe it was a lowball but Fork has been through it all. He is athletic, played RB, QB, can throw 60 yards, catch punts, ints, etc but now we are gonna doubt him coming back healthy.

    I EXPECT the Pats to be cutthroat but I DIDNT expect the Fans to be.....wow...smh



    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 




    Nobody knows but I would ask Why not?  Did he do it in 2012 when he was healthy? DiD our run D look the worst its been in years last year?

    Look I am not saying I dont get the business side. If its his time to go, then so be it but I just dont like how fans change their tune as soon as someone comes or goes. Talib is great as long as he is here but goes to Denver he is a bum. Revis is hated and gets signed by his rival team from 2 years ago and we ask the leader of our D to take less money because of it and he asks out and we slam him out the door? I understand the biz and so does Vince but why bash him? He was a good soldier. Im just saying show some respect or you look foolish...  A bunch of Rustys on this post. Slamming a guy just because he is leaving. Just doesnt sit well w/me but oh well. I wont shed a tear...This kneejerk chit is nothing new...

     

    His play looked off early last year due to him playing a bad ankle like I said in original post. YOu think its easy to block three lineman on a bad ankle. YOu dont understand how his leg compenstated for the bad ankle and caused a year ending injury? You dont understand Vince playing through the injury to begin with?  I guess you dont... I do.

    Thats the reason I see it different I guess. NFL is an ACT(One Entity), and Players get payed good to act and in the end, I dont love them, I just enjoy the entertainement but dont be fickle fans...it makes us look bad

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 



    That doesn't mean we have to s h!t on the person on the way out either Lifer. He was a good player, why can't we all just say it's a business decision time to move on. Why is it dump on the player everytime something like this comes up? We are all loyal to the team, but you can be loyal and respect a player on the way out you don't need to dump on them to convince yourself it's the right move.




    Exactly! Thats ALL im saying. Show some class and stop believing every crap statement the Pats put out. Sometimes THEY are in the wrong. Sure we dont switch teams but we can respect the player.   Just like some clowns in here still wanna believe the Pats didnt know about Hern. Its Ridiculous and gullible, sheep behavior

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Wow, How quickly fans turn on you. I am seeing shots taken at his wife and all these fans saying he is old and done!  How the h3ll do you know his status? I Happen to think he is gonna return to form. Lets revisit HOW he got hurt. He was playing on a bad ankle to help the team and then got his achilles hurt and needed to go to I/R. Our Run Defense immediately was bad.

    BB spent all kinds of resources trying to replace him. Lets not forget Wilfork honored his rookie contract despite playing great football so in his mind, why should he take a paycut. How do we know what was offered. Maybe it was a lowball but Fork has been through it all. He is athletic, played RB, QB, can throw 60 yards, catch punts, ints, etc but now we are gonna doubt him coming back healthy.

    I EXPECT the Pats to be cutthroat but I DIDNT expect the Fans to be.....wow...smh

     



    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 

     




    Nobody knows but I would ask Why not?  Did he do it in 2012 when he was healthy? DiD our run D look the worst its been in years last year?

    Look I am not saying I dont get the business side. If its his time to go, then so be it but I just dont like how fans change their tune as soon as someone comes or goes. Talib is great as long as he is here but goes to Denver he is a bum. Revis is hated and gets signed by his rival team from 2 years ago and we ask the leader of our D to take less money because of it and he asks out and we slam him out the door? I understand the biz and so does Vince but why bash him? He was a good soldier. Im just saying show some respect or you look foolish...  A bunch of Rustys on this post. Slamming a guy just because he is leaving. Just doesnt sit well w/me but oh well. I wont shed a tear...This kneejerk chit is nothing new...

     

    His play looked off early last year due to him playing a bad ankle like I said in original post. YOu think its easy to block three lineman on a bad ankle. YOu dont understand how his leg compenstated for the bad ankle and caused a year ending injury? You dont understand Vince playing through the injury to begin with?  I guess you dont... I do.

    Thats the reason I see it different I guess. NFL is an ACT(One Entity), and Players get payed good to act and in the end, I dont love them, I just enjoy the entertainement but dont be fickle fans...it makes us look bad



    I get what you are saying and agree on most of,it. Lets face it, we were ill prepared for any loss of DT let alone 2 starters. With FA and the draft coming up, his production I think could be replaced with a younger, cheaper guy we could nab in the 1st round. 

    PI don't tvince bad of Vince. He was a very productive player, great leader and did his job. I only question the productivity vs salary question and does he warrant it vs getting a big kid in the draft at a fraction of the cost.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 



    That doesn't mean we have to s h!t on the person on the way out either Lifer. He was a good player, why can't we all just say it's a business decision time to move on. Why is it dump on the player everytime something like this comes up? We are all loyal to the team, but you can be loyal and respect a player on the way out you don't need to dump on them to convince yourself it's the right move.



    That's what I am saying. I have the most respect for vw regardless of where he plays. I am simply looking at it from a cost/benefit standpoint. why not pay a kid like nix a fraction of his salary for the same or similar production? 

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    That's what I am saying. I have the most respect for vw regardless of where he plays. I am simply looking at it from a cost/benefit standpoint. why not pay a kid like nix a fraction of his salary for the same or similar production? 



    I agree but look at this thread alone. How many fans who 3 years ago would have laid down in mud if Wilfork asked them to are now calling him greedy, and just average, and not a team player? I mean really, as Triple pointed out in the last week we saw that happen with Talib and last year you saw it with Welker, you saw it with Seymour and Law and Samuel and every other former Pat. Why is it as fans we can't just except it as business and instead have to vilify every player that leaves. I have a strange feeling if Brady didn't want to renegotiate his contract last year we'd have more Rusty's out there.

    I'm just tired of fans instantly jumping on players without knowing the situation. I also don't like fans can't see how these types of actions can hurt a team in the eyes of younger players. If it's business everyone can understand that but when a lifelong loyal player gets dragged through the mud then how does that look in the eyes of younger players?

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Wow, How quickly fans turn on you. I am seeing shots taken at his wife and all these fans saying he is old and done!  How the h3ll do you know his status? I Happen to think he is gonna return to form. Lets revisit HOW he got hurt. He was playing on a bad ankle to help the team and then got his achilles hurt and needed to go to I/R. Our Run Defense immediately was bad.

    BB spent all kinds of resources trying to replace him. Lets not forget Wilfork honored his rookie contract despite playing great football so in his mind, why should he take a paycut. How do we know what was offered. Maybe it was a lowball but Fork has been through it all. He is athletic, played RB, QB, can throw 60 yards, catch punts, ints, etc but now we are gonna doubt him coming back healthy.

    I EXPECT the Pats to be cutthroat but I DIDNT expect the Fans to be.....wow...smh

     



    The loyalty should be to the team overall, players come and go. Big deal he can throw a football, catch punts or whatever. Can he still command doubles, collapse the pocket and disrupt the QB? if he can't do these things at a high level, then it doesn't make financial sense to keep him. We could easily replace him in the draft. Not replace what once was, but what he is now. Of course I am speculating he won't return the same Vince. Even if he does, before injury, was he playing at a level to match his earnings Then? Looking at him early last year he seemed to drop off. 

     




    Nobody knows but I would ask Why not?  Did he do it in 2012 when he was healthy? DiD our run D look the worst its been in years last year?

    Look I am not saying I dont get the business side. If its his time to go, then so be it but I just dont like how fans change their tune as soon as someone comes or goes. Talib is great as long as he is here but goes to Denver he is a bum. Revis is hated and gets signed by his rival team from 2 years ago and we ask the leader of our D to take less money because of it and he asks out and we slam him out the door? I understand the biz and so does Vince but why bash him? He was a good soldier. Im just saying show some respect or you look foolish...  A bunch of Rustys on this post. Slamming a guy just because he is leaving. Just doesnt sit well w/me but oh well. I wont shed a tear...This kneejerk chit is nothing new...

     

    His play looked off early last year due to him playing a bad ankle like I said in original post. YOu think its easy to block three lineman on a bad ankle. YOu dont understand how his leg compenstated for the bad ankle and caused a year ending injury? You dont understand Vince playing through the injury to begin with?  I guess you dont... I do.

    Thats the reason I see it different I guess. NFL is an ACT(One Entity), and Players get payed good to act and in the end, I dont love them, I just enjoy the entertainement but dont be fickle fans...it makes us look bad



    I get what you are saying and agree on most of,it. Lets face it, we were ill prepared for any loss of DT let alone 2 starters. With FA and the draft coming up, his production I think could be replaced with a younger, cheaper guy we could nab in the 1st round. 

    PI don't tvince bad of Vince. He was a very productive player, great leader and did his job. I only question the productivity vs salary question and does he warrant it vs getting a big kid in the draft at a fraction of the cost.




    in terms of measuring his play vs his salary, I would agree, the thing is we havent see him play yet. I dont know what they offered him. I have no issue with moving on and getting younger and using the cap space to fill other needs. Im just saying, lets not bash him. Vince was a team player. he stood on the sidelines all year in the cold showing support and in contrast a bad teamate like Steve Smith who was a fan favorite had Fans outside PROSTESTING his release and I dont want our fans to be like some crazy, n.c., hickville christians and protest a release but somewhere in the middle would be realistic.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Dear Vince,

    We like you and respect you. We appreciate that you have kept your nose clean and have been a model citizen and family man. We are glad you have always been a Patriot and have appreciated your great play and paid you well for it.

    Nothing lasts forever. You have come to the last leg of your journey. You are not a young elite bull in the trenches anymore. This is up to you. Stick with us and we'll stick with you. But if you think we're more loyal to you, you must be informed that, despite the appreciation we have you will never come before our loyalty to the New England Patriots.

    Now stop this anal foolishness born of misplaced pride. Restructure, make some more bucks and see if you can still help us win football games. Go out like a champ who belongs somewhere, or cry like a fool in denial. The choice is yours.

     

    Sincerely,

    The fans

     

    +1 - You know who REALLY pays his salary, right?  It certainly isn't the generosity of the Kraft family and BB!

    Us, the little guys!



    Exactly Babe! 

    I can not honestly say that I don't have a little envy over what these guys get paid.  But yes, each and every one of us help pay these hefty salaries.  While millions of people live financially day to day, hearing players imply that they're being disrespected when only offered 7 Million Dollars or 3 Million Dollars or 1 Million Dollars per season to play a game that they would probably play for nothing is begining to grate on me a bit. 

     But for the Team Owners, "It's a Business" and for the Players "It's a Business".   That's a cold way to look at it but "It is what it is".   



    First, let me add, the fans have yet to say anything with their feet and wallets they are unhappy with the way things are in the NFL today.  So, as long as they flock to the gate and buy the team stuff, the players and owners are getting paid.  The market is bearing it.  With that said...

    I can definitely see how the demands of any professional athlete to get "paid" millions for playing a game can begin to grate on some fans.  Who was it that said they have to "feed their family" and it takes millions to do that?  Granted, professional athletes are the rarest of humans who have the talent and ability to earn money playing/partipating in a sport.  For most of us, the thought of being paid to play is such a pipe dream let alone be earning millions of dollars in a few years let alone a lifetime.  Unlike most professional sports, an NFL football player has, I believe, the shortest average shelf life.  As a result, IMHO, the mindset of many is to earn a lifetime of income in a few years and, hopefully, live the life of leisure after their playing years are done.  As long as the system supports this back and forth, "it's business", we fans simply stand on the sidelines, hope our team makes the right moves and make posts here!  (-;

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Restructuring is part of the business.  Vince knows this and is playing the only real card that he has by asking for his release.  The Pats know exactly what they are doing and if Vince doesn't know what he's doing shame on him.

    I do not get this 'loyalty' stuff.  Do the fans on this board want to win or not?  You can't have it both ways. Either loyalty to one player (no matter who it is) is top priority or winning is the top priority.

    For me, it's winning and if that means restructuring VW then so be it.  Or cutting him.  Or trading him. Or hiring him as team mascot. 

    Do what you need to do BB to continue to do what is best for the team.  End of conversation IMO.,



    I don't understand why it's a bad thing for him to ask for his release. If the Pats want to pay him less, it's certainly in his best interest to be able to shop around the league to see if some team will pay him more than the Pats will.  The CBA gives the teams all the power in this situation because they can walk away from the contract they signed with the player, but the player can't do the same.  I know those are the rules that were agreed to, and so the Pats are under no obligation to release him and can keep him off the market either to try to pressure him into signing their deal or (somewhat vindictively) to make him pay for not signing it. I just don't see how anyone can blame Wilfork for requesting a release in this situation, which is something he has every right to do. He has a deal with the Pats to be paid $8 million next year.  If the Pats don't want to pay it, they have every right to cut Wilfork.  But hanging on him to him to keep him off the market is a hardball negotiating tactic.  Fine to say playing hardball is okay, but then you can't complain when a player like Mankins refuses to sign his tender (also something perfectly in his rights to do).  They are in some way equivalent hardball tactics, though honestly the team has far more power in these situations, so I find the players' attempts to balance out the power dynamic a little less of a hardball tactic than the owners' pressing a big advantage they already have and thereby negatively impacting an individual's future earning potential. 

     

     




    Neither side is right... both sides are within their rights.



    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 




    Not entirely sure that I ever used the word 'bad'.  What I did say is that I hope Vince knows what he's doing because I'm prepared to bet the farm that the Pats know what they're doing.  It's business and that's all it is. 

    If Vince (or anyone else) expected this contract to run full term without a restructuring or renogotiation then they don't know the business of the NFL on both sides - team and player. 

    It's not playing hardball, in my opinion.  It's part of crafting a winning team.  And I hasten to add that indeed both sides are within their rights to do what they are doing.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    That's what I am saying. I have the most respect for vw regardless of where he plays. I am simply looking at it from a cost/benefit standpoint. why not pay a kid like nix a fraction of his salary for the same or similar production? 



    I agree but look at this thread alone. How many fans who 3 years ago would have laid down in mud if Wilfork asked them to are now calling him greedy, and just average, and not a team player? I mean really, as Triple pointed out in the last week we saw that happen with Talib and last year you saw it with Welker, you saw it with Seymour and Law and Samuel and every other former Pat. Why is it as fans we can't just except it as business and instead have to vilify every player that leaves. I have a strange feeling if Brady didn't want to renegotiate his contract last year we'd have more Rusty's out there.

    I'm just tired of fans instantly jumping on players without knowing the situation. I also don't like fans can't see how these types of actions can hurt a team in the eyes of younger players. If it's business everyone can understand that but when a lifelong loyal player gets dragged through the mud then how does that look in the eyes of younger players?




    It's mostly the Jim Jones...errr I mean BB, kool-aid guzzling crowd.

    Business is business, no doubt but the people here that diss the player  (Wilfork,Welker) after they leave or want to leave and embrace players they previously dissed are more than embarrassing.  All of the sudden they suck or all of the sudden previous concerns or they used to suck are mute?

    What's changed?  BB wants them or not.  It's disturbing and frankly, stupid.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    This is what passes for "negotiations" in today's NFL...

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    All this comes down to on both sides is a nothing more than a gamble.  Yes Big Vince is a staple around these parts, much love and respected, and has epitomized what we have all come to expect out of "The Patriot Way".  But, that doesn't win championships.  He's older, he's been beaten on for years like few players have, he's coming off a major injury that usually takes 2 years to fully recover from, and that's if you don't have 350 pounds of self induced weight, with an additional 650lbs of offensive lineman on it every single play.  The Pats are trying to win, and they need the cap space to bring in players that can do that.  Vince is trying to squeeze what he can out of this game money wise, just like the Pats are trying to squeeze what they can out of him performance wise.  Such is the nature of the game we love.

    But it's all a gamble.  There is no right or wrong, just a gamble.  And everyone here, the pro Wilforks, and the con haters, are just voiceing not so much their opinions, but what they hope to be true, to make things more palatable to them.  It's ugly and sad all the way around.  Personally, I'd like to reward the years he's given by allowing him to retire a Patriot.  By allowing him to make his millions, just restrutured and spread out in a way that makes it easier to manage and give us the flexibility to we need to bring in another player or two.  Vince, doesn't like that idea.  And who am I to argue with him?  He's gotta do, what he feels he gotta do.  Tom Curran summed it up best in this article : http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/guess-you-gotta-do-what-you-gotta-do-vince

     

     
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    Re: Wilfork asks for Release from Pats

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:



    True, and as long as there is good faith negotiating going on (or a good faith attempt to negotiate), I have no problem with the Pats refusing to release him.  But I think there's a point where holding the screws to a guy like Wilfork, even if it's within your rights, starts to become pretty crappy behaviour.  I don't think we're at that point yet . . . but I hope it never gets to that point, either. 




    Until we know exactly what is being asked of him and if there is a time frame associated it is tough to judge.

    From Vince's perspective if he has been given an ultimatum I don't blame him for wanting out now. From the Pats perspective it is tough to release a guy who has demanded it. That doesn't set a good precedent... opens the door for other players digruntled with their contracts to do the same.



    Except I think Wilfork is fine with his contract.  It's the Pats who are "disgruntled" with his contract and want to change it. I know what you're saying--you don't want to signal to players that you're a pushover.  At the same time if you signal that you're a hardarse, expect some players and their agents to play hardarse more often too.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

     

     

     



    Without knowing the details and just speculating it seems right now both sides are in a bind. It is going to be interesting to watch this play out. There was another thread a while back and the question was asked what player would you be most disappointed to lose and for me as a fan hands down it was Vince although i would understand it.

     



  • I would love to see him retire as a Patriot and think it's too bad if they can't make something work.  He's too costly right now, so I agree the Pats should be trying to re-work his deal.  If, however, Vince doesn't want to do that and it becomes clear that can't reach an agreement, I hope the Pats release him quickly so he can look elsewhere.  Guy's done enough for the team to be treated well when he leaves. 

     
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