WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbazilla. Show bubbazilla's posts

    WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    assuming belichick must make a financial decision on who to pay the money to in trading for or signing a julian peppers or franchising or resigning wilfork. for this discussion, assume they have the same injury history, same number of years left and will cost the same amount of $. i'm talking strictly in terms of value to the PATS. is what wilfork brings better than what a peppers can bring? i say NO. i love me some wilfork in terms of stopping the run but think peppers will be an immediate answer to our pass rush issues. belichick has been able to find a few wilfork types, not so much with the peppers type. it is hard to find or teach someone to be a peppers. its a more unique skillset. to me, a brace, pryor, wright, or even a warren could be plugged in there and we will be able to at least spell big vince for a while on the CHEAP. we need a stud DE type who can constantly attract double teams and is always a presence. peppers also prefers to play in a 3-4 base defense and could drop into coverage at times as a linebacker-hybrid type. his presence alone will make TBC even better, same with guys like jarvis green. imagine if we had not traded seymour and could have spun a deal where both of these guys could have been together on the same freakin team along with wilfork? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]assuming belichick must make a financial decision on who to pay the money to in trading for or signing a julian peppers or franchising or resigning wilfork. for this discussion, assume they have the same injury history, same number of years left and will cost the same amount of $. i'm talking strictly in terms of value to the PATS. is what wilfork brings better than what a peppers can bring? i say NO. i love me some wilfork but think peppers will be an immediate answer to our pass rush issues. belichick has been able to find a few wilfork types, not so much with the peppers type. it is hard to find or teach someone to be a peppers. its a unique skillset. to me, a brace, pryor, wright, or even a warren could be plugged in there and we will be able to at least spell big vince for a while on the CHEAP. we need a stud DE type who can constantly attract double teams and is always a presence. peppers also prefers to play in a 3-4 base defense and could drop into coverage at times as a linebacker-hybrid type. his presence alone will make TBC even better, same with guys like jarvis green. imagine if we had not traded seymour and could have spun a deal where both of these guys could have been together on the same freakin team along with wilfork? 
    Posted by bubbazilla[/QUOTE]
    NO!

    We just saw today both what the loss of fork means and that brace has a long way to go. We have to keep fork. NT is a much harder position to learn and to play than a pass rushing DE. Give fork whatever he needs to stay here and look to free agency and the draft for the pass rush.

    Peppers would be an nice player but way too expensive, in the $20 mil range. Not to mention that he's never played at OLB and he's getting a bit old in the tooth.  NFW do we use up that much $$ on one guy whose name is not brady.

    Look at clay matthews. he's got 8 sacks to peppers' 8.5 this year. He's almost 10 years younger than peppers and he was signed for something like $13.5 mil for 5 years. He's the type of guy we need to get in 2010.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    great post, hope to see a good debate on this.
    I say pass rush.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year? : NO! We just saw today both what the loss of fork means and that brace has a long way to go. We have to keep fork. NT is a much harder position to learn and to play than a pass rushing DE...
    Posted by unclealfie[/QUOTE]

    I agree. You only give up Wilfork for a better NT... not for someone like Peppers. That is unless BB decides to convert to 43, which I doubt will happen anytime soon. If you want more pass rush then focus on upgrading the DEs and LBs, and having better schemes.




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Wilfork all the way! Finding an elite 3-4 N.T. is much harder to find than a pass rusher, either 3-4 or 4-3. There isnt 4-5 guys who can do what big Vince does, on the other hand there are at least 10-15 elite pass rushers in the game today. Also your much more likely to find some in the draft who can really get after the QB, whereas, again your just not going to find an elite n.t. This is a great debate though, specially when you consider just how much the Pats need a good/great pass rusher. But I still have to go w/ mount Wilfork, stuffs the run as well , if not better than anyone I can think of. Also consider the fact he'll give 3/4 sacks a year. Hampton is very, very good,  and when healthy J-Williams from SD is up there ,as maybe the best, I would 2nd behind vince. But thats the problem w/ Williams, he's always hurt. If U say Wilfork or D-Ware(lets consider we actually are thinking bout trading for him, which is crazy, would prob. take two one's and a 3 or 4) thats interesting! If your talking bout pure pass rushers I think he's the best hands down! I know it would never happen, but if some D-nozzle can say LM has a better upside than CJ or AD, I dont think its to far out there to ponder that question.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    OK bubba, ill give it rest, sorry if I hit to hard, but Im a loser who loves sports( and fitness, politics) maybe a lil' to much. I get fired up pretty easy, I need to work on that.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    how annoying is it that we could have had Matthews, along w/ J-Charles from two yrs ago.(along w/ alot of other good players, I think we need to hold this team and BB's feet to the fire a lil' more in that area.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Peppers disappears at times.  To me he would be a "plus" player - someone who could put the Pats over the top, but who couldn't form the backbone of the Pats' defense.

    Nose tackle is essential.  I think letting Wilfork go and acquiring Peppers would mean switching to a 4-3.

    I'm actually somewhat hoping for an uncapped year next year so the Pats could try to acquire Peppers with autonomy.  Right now, they'd never be able to fit him on their roster without cutting Brady and Moss.  He'd also prevent the Pats from retaining any of this year's free agent class.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bmadmax82. Show bmadmax82's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    1. NT is the key player in 3-4. They don't notch up gaudy stats like other defensive players, hence might be overlooked. But without them, the whole D-line could be rendered inefficient. It was clear that we don't have an answer to Wilfork's replacement yet. Brace was manhandled by the week Bill's OL and Pryor is still developing. Titus Adams was just elivated from the practice squad. In short, Wilfork has more talent then the above three mentioned combined! So my money would be for extending Wilfork for next 4-5 years!

    2. IMO, Peppers is over-rated. Yes, when used properly, he could be a great pass-rusher, but he is very inconsistant. TBC has same number of sacks this season as he does (I think). Also, he does not have the qualities to play a DE in 3-4. He would want to convert to OLB, which would mean that he would be given duties to drop back in the coverage and do many things that he hasn't done before in his life. Last but not the least, his price tag would be in the range of 15-20 mil for next 3-4 years. We cannot afford that for someone who is not a QB. Certainly not for someone who hasn't played a down as OLB in a 3-4 system!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbazilla. Show bubbazilla's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    boy o boy. first of, peppers has said he HATES the 4-3 and would much prefer to play in a 3-4. i believe he used to play in one in college. right there, says something. this guy is already sold on the benefits of the 3-4 as he thrives in his second best defense. obviously , it would give pats a ton of versatility for we could go both ways with him and obviously keep him in for subpackages also. did u see the game tonight? i have not ever seen a pats defender single handedly make an ELITE team and its coaches cry "uncle" like that... EVER! if bel were to use him like a jason taylor, it would be awesome. u can have line up whereever the best matchup is from snap to snap. this guy is up there with lawrence taylor. lastly, the panthers blitz the LEAST of any team in football. thus, peppers' 10 or so sacks is far superior than a TBC and others who can only get sacks when they are getting loads of help from others. as average fans, most of us simply do not see stuff most experts see. HOW one gets their sacks is more important than how many sacks one gets in itself! with peppers, we could dominate in all areas just from our FRONT 7. no need for all the overcoaching, sexy, exotic packages to mask an unhealthy heaping of obvious FLAWS!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]ILook at clay matthews. he's got 8 sacks to peppers' 8.5 this year. He's almost 10 years younger than peppers and he was signed for something like $13.5 mil for 5 years. He's the type of guy we need to get in 2010.
    Posted by unclealfie[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, and the Packers got him with a draft pick BB traded to them!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    No way would I dump Wilfork for Peppers. This is a "we need a better running back so let's trade the pro-bowl quarterback" kind of post.  It would be fine to pick up Peppers, I think--but not at the expense of Wilfork who's the cornerstone of our defense and a beast in the middle.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from docmartin72. Show docmartin72's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    This is a silly question every time it comes up.

    Wilfork all day and twice on Sundays.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Vince Wilfork is proven within this Patriots system. We know exactly what we are getting when we resign him and it's pretty good. If you sign Peppers to a multi year deal it's going to cost 10mil+ per year and we don't know how he is going to fit in to the system. there are other ways to get a pass rush than Julius Peppers or someone like him. Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vraebel and Rodney Harrison provided good pressure and big plays for us. Merriweather doesn't seem to be improving so lets look at that position and the Linebacking corps to start. That way an upgrade there for a pass rush can also be an upgrade against the running game and defense in general. There are more good free agent linebackers out there for less money that can help this team out rather than just throwing 10 million a year at Peppers. Not to mention if Carolina Franchises him again we are going to have to give up draft picks too.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Getting an improved pass rush by making a huge hole in the run defense? Doesn't sound like a very good choice to me.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Clay Mathews would of solved this problem.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]assuming belichick must make a financial decision on who to pay the money to in trading for or signing a julian peppers or franchising or resigning wilfork. for this discussion, assume they have the same injury history, same number of years left and will cost the same amount of $. i'm talking strictly in terms of value to the PATS. is what wilfork brings better than what a peppers can bring? i say NO. i love me some wilfork in terms of stopping the run but think peppers will be an immediate answer to our pass rush issues. belichick has been able to find a few wilfork types, not so much with the peppers type. it is hard to find or teach someone to be a peppers. its a more unique skillset. to me, a brace, pryor, wright, or even a warren could be plugged in there and we will be able to at least spell big vince for a while on the CHEAP. we need a stud DE type who can constantly attract double teams and is always a presence. peppers also prefers to play in a 3-4 base defense and could drop into coverage at times as a linebacker-hybrid type. his presence alone will make TBC even better, same with guys like jarvis green. imagine if we had not traded seymour and could have spun a deal where both of these guys could have been together on the same freakin team along with wilfork? 
    Posted by bubbazilla[/QUOTE]

    both....lol
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Let me think.  Rooservelt Covin, AT, Burgess, ...
    All of these were supposed to be the outside pass rusher that the Pats need.
    I think it is more the schemes that they play than the players that are plugged in.  Peppers would be an overpaid still in NE.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]Let me think.  Rooservelt Covin, AT, Burgess, ... All of these were supposed to be the outside pass rusher that the Pats need. I think it is more the schemes that they play than the players that are plugged in.  Peppers would be an overpaid still in NE.
    Posted by msteven[/QUOTE]
    What plays should they run that would give them more sacks?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    If they don't franchise or re-up Wilfork I will be utterly disappointed. The D is already young with very little leadership. That would more or less leave Ty Warren as the "elder". Not smart. Let alone that Vince is one of the best in the game at his position. What I do want the Pats to do is go after Josh Cribbs of the Browns. He would be the absolute ultimate Kevin Faulk replacement and special teams game changer.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    If the Pats hope to run the 3-4 they better re-up big Vince.  The guy has brought it every week this year and the price tag is going up.   
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Not even close, we need Vince.  There are some really good players coming out this year that could be very good as pass rushers.  Unlike last year we'll pickup two of them in the draft. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    Wilfork is not just a great player; he's a great Patriot!

    Sign him; keep him in NE.  Let him lead the defense and throw his weight around the locker room.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    In Response to Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?:
    [QUOTE]Clay Mathews would of solved this problem.
    Posted by patriots44[/QUOTE]

    My point exactly.

    We could get a player like matthews for a fraction of the money, who's younger and faster than peppers. To me, its a no-brainer.

    We have the trade ammunition to get any player we want the 2010 draft, including, dare I say, Mr. Suh of Nebraska. What would he be worth? I'd guess that two first rounders and two second rounders, would put him in a  patriot uniform. Pass rush problem solved for the next five years.

    Personally, I'd rather see those draft picks spread around a bit more. Maybe one top OLB prospect like Corey Wooten and one of the top ILB prospects, like Rolando Mcclain, this year.
     
    Cost? Our first rounder and a second to move up for one and our 2011 first rounder and a third next year for the other, give or take. 

    Benefit? We immediately have one of the top linebacker corps in the NFL once again, and our biggest defensive problem is solved.

    Cap space can be cleared by taking AT out and shooting him.

    Pierre woods may be the nicest guy in the world but he was getting steamrolled consistently yesterday and I don't want to see him playing anywhere but special teams next year. Likewise, Junior should just go home.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: WILFORK or PEPPERS for next year?

    I say NEITHER.  Let's go 4-3.  Fill some solid interior linemen and edge rushers in there, and work on more pressure.  The 3-4 doesn't work as well against the offenses we face now, and we need to adjust.  
     
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