Will Pats Trade UP?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Will Pats Trade UP?

    CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft.

    The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    I'd also like to say..... go Bruins... that is all.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    Can't see it.
    Pats actually only have 6 picks this year. 
    Doubt they spend 2 on one guy.  More likely trade down to accumulate more. 
    But.... stranger things have happened.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill2. Show aussiewill2's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    As much as I would like to see them get Barron, he won't be there at 27. In the pass happy NFL, hard hitting safeties, are now more important than running backs. Safeties , edge rushers, shut down DB's are the main targets to be pursued in the first round. 

    BB may be the best coach ever, IMO he would be for sure had he drafted top defensive players in the last 3 draft's, however that hasn't been the case, and frankly I don't expect him to change. Leopards do not change their spots. It's a shame, he could have eclipsed all the records. He adamantly refuses to go for an edge rusher. Youth must be served, the Carter's and the Anderson's with years of pounding, are just one play away from retirement .

    Mark Barron will be an impact player in the NFL , potential ED Reed type, is Ed Reed a game changer? DUH .

    No NE will not trade up probably trade down, and the medocrity on defence will continue. Some how BB believes ,  that passing on quality athletes for more picks is the answer, his draft actions say this loud and clear.  Tom Brady's clock will keep ticking and the Pats will get knocked off in the Conference title game or the SB , by a superior intimidating defence , led by the Ed Reed's , Patrick Willis, Troy Palamalu, Mario Williams et all. Success breeds contempt. BB is too successful.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    As much as I would like to see them get Barron, he won't be there at 27. In the pass happy NFL, hard hitting safeties, are now more important than running backs. Safeties , edge rushers, shut down DB's are the main targets to be pursued in the first round.

    RESPONSE: Agreed...Barron won't be there at #27...and the cost to move up to get him would be too prohibited.  

    BB may be the best coach ever, IMO he would be for sure had he drafted top defensive players in the last 3 draft's, however that hasn't been the case, and frankly I don't expect him to change. Leopards do not change their spots. It's a shame, he could have eclipsed all the records. He adamantly refuses to go for an edge rusher. Youth must be served, the Carter's and the Anderson's with years of pounding, are just one play away from retirement.
     
    RESPONSE: Sorry, but you're off base in accusing BB of passing on defenders in the draft, from 2009-11:
     
    1.) In 2009, BB passed up OLB Clay Matthews. But, in return, he received a bevy of draft choices. One of these choices was flipped to land all-world TE Rob Gronkowski. Gronk arguably is a better player than Matthews. He went on to draft SS Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, and CB Darius Butler at #41;

    2.) In 2010, who did BB pass up? He wisely passed on WR Dez Bryant, and chose CB Devin McCourty at #27. At #42, he took Gronk. At #53, he took OLB/DE Jermaine Cunningham...and took ILB Brandon Spikes at #62;
     
    3.) In 2011, he wisely choose OT Nate Solder, who will replace the retiring Matt Light. Thereafter, he took DB Ras-I Dowling at #33,.

         You may justifiably argue that BB took the wrong defenders, when he mistakenly passed on OLB Connor Barwin in 2009 to take Brace and Butler, passed on DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard and OLB Brooks Reid in 2011 to take Dowling, and/or passing on DE Carlos Dunlap, to draft Cunningham. But, you can't deny that BB has tried mightily to address his "D". He's used a #1 draft choice in 2010, 4 high second round picks in 2009 and 2011, and two other second rounders in 2010...attempting to rebuild his defense, with mixed results.  


    Mark Barron will be an impact player in the NFL , potential ED Reed type, is Ed Reed a game changer? DUH.
     
    RESPONSE: What would you have the Patriots do to get Barron? Do you really think moving up for Barron is worth giving up the 27th and 31st overall picks?  

    No NE will not trade up probably trade down, and the medocrity on defence will continue.
     
    RESPONSE: Do you really believe that getting Barron is the key to turning the Pats' "D" around? Who do the Pats currently have who can rush the passer? 

    Some how BB believes,  that passing on quality athletes for more picks is the answer, his draft actions say this loud and clear.

    RESPONSE: Please give examples, other than Clay Matthews, of stud defenders that BB has passed up, to get more picks.

    Tom Brady's clock will keep ticking and the Pats will get knocked off in the Conference title game or the SB , by a superior intimidating defence , led by the Ed Reed's , Patrick Willis, Troy Palamalu, Mario Williams et all. Success breeds contempt. BB is too successful.

    RESPONSE: Brady and the Pats have owned Troy Polamalu and the Steelers in the play-offs over the past decade...Ed Reed and the Ravens came up short last year...Patrick Willis and Mario Williams have never won a thing. Besides, Williams was the #1 overall pick in the 2006 draft, and Willis the 11th overall pick in 2007. How do you expect BB to get players like that, when he's always picking at the bottom of the first round? In 2008...he managed to land stud LB Jerod Mayo, because of one of his trades "to get more picks", which you whined about, above.  
    Posted by aussiewill2
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    Agree BB will not move up and will almost assuredly trade down with either 27 or 31. Do not agree that as a result the D will suffer. Many impact players in the second round and deep in positions the Pats need to bolster. I wouln't be surprised if the Pats enter the season with 3 new starters from this draft.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 15315k. Show 15315k's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    One thing for sure , you just never know with Bill Belichick. He could surprise us all and move up and he's just as likely to trade out of the first round entirely. We find out Thursday.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    Agree BB will not move up and will almost assuredly trade down with either 27 or 31. Do not agree that as a result the D will suffer. Many impact players in the second round and deep in positions the Pats need to bolster. I wouln't be surprised if the Pats enter the season with 3 new starters from this draft.
    Posted by elDunker2


         BB's strategy of acquiring full value for each pick, and accumulating future draft choices each year by trading down, is sound. It is not the problem. The problem has been with the scouting department, as the Pats have squandered far too many high draft choices on busts, such as Cunningham, Brace, Butler, Price, Tate, Crable, Wheatley, O'Connell, Chad Jackson, and Meriweather.   

         But, the superb 2010 draft saved this team (McCourty, Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, and Mesko). With five picks in the top 100 this year, the Pats need another great draft to maintain their status as a serious SB contender.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    I read some piece I forgot where was it that said NE will keep #27 and trade away #31, don't know how accurate this report is. Have any of you read anything close to it?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    I read some piece I forgot where was it that said NE will keep #27 and trade away #31, don't know how accurate this report is. Have any of you read anything close to it?
    Posted by leonardo0110


    Just speculation.  Pats never show their hand.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    I read some piece I forgot where was it that said NE will keep #27 and trade away #31, don't know how accurate this report is. Have any of you read anything close to it?
    Posted by leonardo0110


         This is no revelation. It's what the Patriots do, nearly every year.

         Here are some articles on what the Pats will do:
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1140657-new-england-patriots-nfl-draft-updates-latest-news-trade-rumors-storylines;

         The following article focuses on the Pats' trade-down strategy: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4720573/pats-trade-down-strategy-in-focus

         Finally, I found this:

    Patriots Have Many Options on Draft Day

    Published April 17, 2012
    By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

    If there is one team that is likely to be moving around on Draft Day it's obviously the New England Patriots. Every year, the Patriots deftly move up and down the draft board and stockpile picks. Through trades with the Raiders and Saints, New England enters the 2012 NFL Draft with four picks in the top 60 selections. They have two first-round and two second-round selections. There is no doubt that New England is sure to be moving around again.

    If the Patriots wanted to, they could climb high in the first round. If they packaged their two first-round picks together (Nos. 27 and 31), they could move up to the 10th- or 11th overall-pick according to the draft trade chart. Buffalo and Kansas City sit at 10 and 11, respectively. New England could be interested in South Carolina outside linebacker/defensive end Melvin Ingram if he is available, as he would be an instant upgrade as a pass-rusher. The Patriots could also target a potential five-technique defensive end like Mississippi State's Fletcher Cox or North Carolina's Quinton Coples. Maybe they would be intrigued by Memphis nose tackle Dontari Poe, as Vince Wilfork is aging.

    While all of those players could appeal to New England. The Patriots always seem to be more willing to move down and add more picks rather than move up and sacrifice players.

    The most likely move for New England would be to trade away one of its first-round picks. In speaking with one well-informed league source, they believe that the Patriots will take a player with the 27th-overall pick and move down from 31. They will exploit a player falling lower than expected and possibly pick up a 2013 first-rounder for a team that wants to jump back into the first round.

    Also keep in mind that New England doesn't have a fifth-round pick, so it wouldn't be a shock if it looks to add one and be in position for a player in case someone it likes falls into that range: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/911282-2012-first-round-draft-trade-rumor.html
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    Agree BB will not move up and will almost assuredly trade down with either 27 or 31. Do not agree that as a result the D will suffer. Many impact players in the second round and deep in positions the Pats need to bolster. I wouln't be surprised if the Pats enter the season with 3 new starters from this draft.
    Posted by elDunker2


    I was hoping for 2 starters and some  depth.  3 would be great.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    "You may justifiably argue that BB took the wrong defenders, when he mistakenly passed on OLB Connor Barwin in 2009 to take Brace and Butler, passed on DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard and OLB Brooks Reid in 2011 to take Dowling, and/or passing on DE Carlos Dunlap, to draft Cunningham. But, you can't deny that BB has tried mightily to address his "D". He's used a #1 draft choice in 2010, 4 high second round picks in 2009 and 2011, and two other second rounders in 2010...attempting to rebuild his defense, with mixed results.
    ~TP 


    From 2009-2011, 3 Drafts- Each Draft through Rounds 1-6

    2009:
    Allotted Rds 1-6 picks of-<#23, #34, #47, #58, #89, #97, #124, #170, #199, #207>
    Rd 2
    Patrick Chung #34 <Rd 2,#2>
    Ron Brace #40 <Rd 2,#8>
    Darius Butler #41 <Rd 2,#9>
    Rd 3
    Tyrone McKenzie #97 <Rd 3,#33>
    Rd 6
    Myron Pryor #207 <Rd 6,#34>

    {5 of 10 on Defense, prior to numbered trade downs w/ subsequent additional resulting picks}

    2010:
    Allotted Rds 1-6 picks of-<#22, #44, #47, #53, #119, #190, #205>
    Rd 1
    Devon McCourty #27
    Rd 2
    Jermaine Cunningham #53 <Rd 2,#21>
    Brandon Spikes #62 <Rd 2,#30>

    {3 of 7 on Defense, prior to numbered trade downs w/ subsequent additional resulting picks}

    2011:
    Alloted Rds 1-6 Draft picks of-<#17, #28, #33, #60, #74, #92, #125, #159, #193>
    Rd 2
    Ras I Dowling #33 <Rd 2,#33>
    Rd 6
    Markell Carter #194 <Rd 6,#29>

    {2 of 9 on Defense, prior to numbered trade downs w/ subsequent additional resulting picks} 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    Btw, In terms of the "ideal" itself within the philosophy of trading down (or even just slightly trading down In Rd #1- and even early on in Rd #2)- Yes, It's EXTREMELY Sound...ideally, and when you're not spending that 1st Rder turned to two 2nd rders, on 2 draftees of Rd 3-5 Quality.   

    But 10 of 26 of NE's beginning allotment on Defense (vs Offense), and prior to trade downs for more picks, and granted Belichick's insane draft strategy of selecting draftees he's high on, by using his picks of these multi-rd reach players (consensus target area vs. actual NE selection used), Might not EVER rebuild this Defense into a dominant one.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    Btw, In terms of the "ideal" itself within the philosophy of trading down (or even just slightly trading down In Rd #1- and even early on in Rd #2)- Yes, It's EXTREMELY Sound...ideally, and when you're not spending that 1st Rder turned to two 2nd rders, on 2 draftees of Rd 3-5 Quality.    But 10 of 26 of NE's beginning allotment on Defense (vs Offense), and prior to trade downs for more picks, and granted Belichick's insane draft strategy of selecting draftees he's high on, by using his picks of these multi-rd reach players (consensus target area vs. actual NE selection used), Might not EVER rebuild this Defense into a dominant one.
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    I agree Laz but this year might be the year it changes. Honestly, you can argue taking a WR or maybe an interior OL but short of that there really isn't a great argument to be made to taking a large number of O players in this draft. Now he might go all secondary (something most cringe at given success rate) but my gut tells me he will go after front 7 this year given the short comings of the other positions. This will indeed be an eventful draft as I think BB has positioned himself to finally address the front 7 issue. Of course knowing BB he also as likely to trade every pick away into next year and say that he didn't like any of the front 7 candidates, as previous years.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    Move down, take Iloka or Smith at safety if you want one...
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    One thing that this thread makes crystal clear:  BB has positioned this team well, as he does every year, to draft quality and value while potentially acquiring additional picks to be in a similar position next year.

    I definitely see BB moving around in the draft.  I'm guessing he'll move down, primarily focus on defense and snag a pick or two for next year.

    Really went out on a limb, didn't I?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    Move down, take Iloka or Smith at safety if you want one...
    Posted by wozzy


    +1

    If they do move up (and the rookie wage scale makes it more attractive albeit more expensive in terms of draft picks) at least let it be for a defensive lineman.  No reason to move up for a safety.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    With 73/74 players already signed to the 80 man roster, lots of draft picks this year doesn't make a whole lot of sense. While I doubt BB trades way up, he might if a top 10 player was falling in the #15 range (Cox, Ingram?) More likely would be moving up to around #20-22 if he saw his last 1st round graded player still available - (Brockers, Gilmore/Kirkpatrick, DeCastro?) That kind of trade could be engineered for a first and second while getting an extra third or fourth rounder back so maintaining his six picks. And he would still have a first rounder to convert to a second rounder plus additional picks in 2012 or 2013.
    Like everyone says - he is positioned to do whatever he wants based on his draft board, I just however many picks he eventually make, most of of them are on defense.
    Remember - as it stands right now, 20 players currently on the roster will be cut - there are certainly a number of players that are ready for the chop, but 20? Any draftee we take, just adds to the number of players being cut.
    Oh yeah - as far as any rumors about what NE is going to do in the draft - right! I doubt BB knows what he will do from one minute to the next on draft night. He changes on the fly based on what everyone else is doing in front of him.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    If Tom E Curran is reporting it, it is definitely a smokescreen!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    This time of year, I don't trust Patriots trade rumors at all. 

    I feel that Brady's dinner with Tim Tebow pre-draft two years ago was nothing but a smokescreen.  BB had no intention of getting Tebow and he knew that everyone was watching, so he tossed some chum in the water.  It couldn't hurt his draft picks.  Bonus if a particular rival saw how much the Patriots were courting Tebow, and took the bait.  Now those two recent games against the Denver Tebows, weren't they notably easy?

    The rival most desperate to see exactly what Belichick is thinking and to get there first is the New York Jets.  The post-draft newspapers claim that the Jets beat BB to Vernon Gholston. 

    Now, would BB allow carefully crafted false rumors to slip out if he knew Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum was looking for exactly these clues?  April Fools Day 4 weeks late!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    This time of year, I don't trust Patriots trade rumors at all.  I feel that Brady's dinner with Tim Tebow pre-draft two years ago was nothing but a smokescreen.  BB had no intention of getting Tebow and he knew that everyone was watching, so he tossed some chum in the water.  It couldn't hurt his draft picks.  Bonus if a particular rival saw how much the Patriots were courting Tebow, and took the bait.  Now those two recent games against the Denver Tebows, weren't they notably easy? The rival most desperate to see exactly what Belichick is thinking and to get there first is the New York Jets.  The post-draft newspapers claim that the Jets beat BB to Vernon Gholston.  Now, would BB allow carefully crafted false rumors to slip out if he knew Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum was looking for exactly these clues?  April Fools Day 4 weeks late!
    Posted by Paul_K

    Ahhhh the memories. Its far from over ........the Tebow saga.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP? : Ahhhh the memories. Its far from over ........the Tebow saga.
    Posted by MoreRings


    Indeed, the fun's just getting started. LOL
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Will Pats Trade UP?

    In Response to Re: Will Pats Trade UP?:
    This time of year, I don't trust Patriots trade rumors at all.  I feel that Brady's dinner with Tim Tebow pre-draft two years ago was nothing but a smokescreen.  BB had no intention of getting Tebow and he knew that everyone was watching, so he tossed some chum in the water.  It couldn't hurt his draft picks.  Bonus if a particular rival saw how much the Patriots were courting Tebow, and took the bait.  Now those two recent games against the Denver Tebows, weren't they notably easy? The rival most desperate to see exactly what Belichick is thinking and to get there first is the New York Jets.  The post-draft newspapers claim that the Jets beat BB to Vernon Gholston.  Now, would BB allow carefully crafted false rumors to slip out if he knew Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum was looking for exactly these clues?  April Fools Day 4 weeks late!
    Posted by Paul_K


         LOL!!! You might also recall the situation with Kentucky DT DeWayne Robertson, the Dontari Poe of the 2003 NFL draft. The Paats hinted that they were going to move up to get Robertson...and then the Jets paid a kings' ransom in draft choices to "beat the Pats to the punch". Remember:
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/news/2003/04/23/patriots
    _draft_ap/
    ;

         The Pats' were supposedly "scooped" by the Jets, when the Jets traded their 13th, 22nd, and 116th overall picks in the 2003 draft, to move up to #4, and take Robertson. Meanwhile, the Patriots, who possessed the 14th and 19th overall picks that year, feigned interest in moving up to #4 for Robertson, and instead took Ty Warren, and traded their 19th overall pick to Baltimore for the Ravens' 41st pick in 2003 (used to select FS Eugene Wilson), and their #1 pick in 2004 (used to select Vince Wilfolk): http://www.ganggreennation.com/2011/4/6/2093186/top-ten-new-york-jets-draft-busts-8-dewayne-robertson

         LOL!!!
     
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