Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    What if Ryan Mathews from Fresno State Slides to us @ #22?....From what i'm reading the chances of that happening are slim & none!.....

    Then you take him. I mean if your forced to grab the best left tackle or the best OLB in 2011 with a top 5 pick, then so be it!  lol
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    What if Ryan Mathews from Fresno State Slides to us @ #22?....From what i'm reading the chances of that happening are slim & none!..... Then you take him. I mean if your forced to grab the best left tackle or the best OLB in 2011 with a top 5 pick, then so be it!  lol
    Posted by Philskiw
    Yeah just because a player of value falls to you,you don't rush out and trade a top 10 draft choice just because of it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now?? : If he;s talking about this year, then use that acquired 3rd for Kirk Morisson and deal 2 of their then 4 2nd rounders to move up the 1st round.   They would still have 2 2nd rd picks if they did that.  Their draft is going to be sick however they do it.  I don't think people realize this yet.
    Posted by russgriswold
    Russ with just a litlle movement on BB's part this could be the greatest draft in Patriots history although it's goin gto be hard to top last years haul of 12 picks and all 12 still on the team... Though you are right the quality of players in this draft should be eye openers!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    No,

    So many people are confusing potential elite talent with draft depth. There are still only handful of potential elite players in this draft.

    Hold the pick and hope the Raiders don't turn it around and you end up being in a position for one of those potential elite players.

    You have a better chance of landing a potential elite player and not having to pay elite money to him by holding the pick till next year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    What about that Raider 1st rounder we own in 2011?.....To me it is not the Patriot logic to hang on to this pick. They hate dishing out cash to unproven rooks. My bet is that they'd send that one to someone for a couple of 2nd rounders. Could that happen in this draft?.......I'm confused about it with the potential for a lockout. 2011 will be the 1st draft with a set rookie pay scale too right? Thoughts? What about this draft? Could we trade that #1 back for a 2 & a 3? If it's a deep draft you have to think BB would like to get a 2 for 1......
    Posted by seanblaze


    I say trade it this year!

    With the news that McNabb might well become a raider that pick could well end up in the middle of the 1st rather than in the top 10.

    Yes, we have 4 picks in rounds 1-2, but would't it be better to have five? Plus a third?

    This is supposedly a banner year for draft talent, so let's take advantage of it!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jofos. Show jofos's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    In Response to Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now?? : I say trade it this year! With the news that McNabb might well become a raider that pick could well end up in the middle of the 1st rather than in the top 10. Yes, we have 4 picks in rounds 1-2, but would't it be better to have five? Plus a third? This is supposedly a banner year for draft talent, so let's take advantage of it!
    Posted by unclealfie


    I agree! Good post! This year's draft is loaded and if the Raiders land Mcnabb that 2011 pick could end up in the high teens!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    Either way we win with the pick. Seymore would have run for the money this year regardless. At least we got something for him. Even if its pick 32. I think it'll be at least what we got him for #6 overall. I say use all our first 2 round picks this year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    12 picks this year!  How many rookies can you have on a team?  Leave next year alone.  Don't forget the influx of 2nd year players as well.  Mayo is young. Merriweather is young.  You need to keep some of the older players in the locker room.   
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogggg. Show underdogggg's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    That first round pick next year from the Raiders is the most valuable pick in the history of the draft. Never trade that pick away I don't care what any team offers you for it just hold onto it.If the lions offer you their first pick in the draft this year that would be crazy. You would have to be a complete lunatic to ever part with that baby. Even next year year when it comes time to use it, don't draft anyone because that pick is so special it just needs to be held and nurtured.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Physics. Show Physics's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    Agreed. Provided it is safe to say that the pick will be reasonably strong and provided that the salary for rookies is a complete unknown, it would seem that Raiders pick is a great value. Of course, we already seem to be making it a given that our own pick next year will be a lesser pick, but a few bad games against the Jets and Miami and we are picking in the teens, too... either way, I'd rather do as suggested and try to move one of the seconds this year for another 1st next year if possible to really set the team up for a nice run ... e.g.,  three picks in the first round of any draft, but espcially one that may have rookies making less money than typical, would be a real positive for rebuilding a program quickly...   that draft can't really be 'that' bad in terms of talent as it wasn't as if it was a crazy influx of juniors who jumped in this year...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    I like the sarcasm. There are several risks with holding that pick, and it's not clear whether BB wanted the 2011 first rounder over the 2010. Mord and I battled over the issue and it's not clear. Mike Reiss said last year that they decided to take a 2011 1 over a 2010 1, while more recently he reported that it was a choice between a 2010 2nd and and 2011 1st. I think the latter is more reasonable.

    Either way, it's not a stupid suggestion. Think could happen:
    a)Raiders pick up McNabb and go to 7-9.
    b) There's a lockout and there's no football in 2010.
    c) There's no rookie pay scale (no agreement has been made and there have been reports that it's not a slam dunk in 2011).

    When framed this way, there's no guarantee that the 2011 first is really all that valuable. Think about it this way, if there's no football in 2011 then the Pats would have gotten NOTHING for trading Seymour until 3 years after the trade (if then). Can we all agree that would be awful. That's a huge opportunity cost for losing your best d lineman (Mord if you believe those reports than the Pats offered up Wilfork before Seymour). So, if given the choice between taking a guy like Graham or Matthews this year or the unknowns of keeping the pick next year I would gladly add talent this year. And no, it's not a stupid suggestion. The Pats will have to 'go for it' at some point, and this years draft is an ideal time to do it. Just assuming the best conditions for next year (top 5 pick, rookie scale, top talent) is dangerous. 


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    That first round pick next year from the Raiders is the most valuable pick in the history of the draft. Never trade that pick away I don't care what any team offers you for it just hold onto it.If the lions offer you their first pick in the draft this year that would be crazy. You would have to be a complete lunatic to ever part with that baby. Even next year year when it comes time to use it, don't draft anyone because that pick is so special it just needs to be held and nurtured.
    Posted by underdogggg

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    And there was a good influx of Junior talent this year. Belichick commented on it and said it was one of the reasons that this draft is strong. 

    Draft class looks good. On the quality of prospects in the draft, Belichick said: “I think it’s overall better than what it’s been the last few years.” Belichick pointed out the large number of underclassmen in the draft, which has contributed to its quality.

    This is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory, bolstered by a strong crop of juniors. Some, such as longtime NFL general manager Charley Casserly, have called it the best first round since 1983. Others are saying there are first-round quality prospects who should be available in the second round and beyond.


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    Agreed. Provided it is safe to say that the pick will be reasonably strong and provided that the salary for rookies is a complete unknown, it would seem that Raiders pick is a great value. Of course, we already seem to be making it a given that our own pick next year will be a lesser pick, but a few bad games against the Jets and Miami and we are picking in the teens, too... either way, I'd rather do as suggested and try to move one of the seconds this year for another 1st next year if possible to really set the team up for a nice run ... e.g.,  three picks in the first round of any draft, but espcially one that may have rookies making less money than typical, would be a real positive for rebuilding a program quickly...   that draft can't really be 'that' bad in terms of talent as it wasn't as if it was a crazy influx of juniors who jumped in this year...
    Posted by Physics

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    That first round pick next year from the Raiders is the most valuable pick in the history of the draft. Never trade that pick away I don't care what any team offers you for it just hold onto it.If the lions offer you their first pick in the draft this year that would be crazy. You would have to be a complete lunatic to ever part with that baby. Even next year year when it comes time to use it, don't draft anyone because that pick is so special it just needs to be held and nurtured.
    Posted by underdogggg


    LOL  .. Your funnier than the other Underdoggggggggg
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    I like the sarcasm. There are several risks with holding that pick, and it's not clear whether BB wanted the 2011 first rounder over the 2010. Mord and I battled over the issue and it's not clear. Mike Reiss said last year that they decided to take a 2011 1 over a 2010 1, while more recently he reported that it was a choice between a 2010 2nd and and 2011 1st. I think the latter is more reasonable. Either way, it's not a stupid suggestion. Think could happen: a)Raiders pick up McNabb and go to 7-9. b) There's a lockout and there's no football in 2010. c) There's no rookie pay scale (no agreement has been made and there have been reports that it's not a slam dunk in 2011). When framed this way, there's no guarantee that the 2011 first is really all that valuable. Think about it this way, if there's no football in 2011 then the Pats would have gotten NOTHING for trading Seymour until 3 years after the trade (if then). Can we all agree that would be awful. That's a huge opportunity cost for losing your best d lineman (Mord if you believe those reports than the Pats offered up Wilfork before Seymour). So, if given the choice between taking a guy like Graham or Matthews this year or the unknowns of keeping the pick next year I would gladly add talent this year. And no, it's not a stupid suggestion. The Pats will have to 'go for it' at some point, and this years draft is an ideal time to do it. Just assuming the best conditions for next year (top 5 pick, rookie scale, top talent) is dangerous.  In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now?? :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000


    Rock dog...@#$% Happens. I'm with you and that AFC west is a weak division. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the raiders finish 7-9 or 8-8 this year.I don't necessarily think that BB will trade it for anything but if somebody offers up a sweetheart deal why not.There are quite a few good looking prospects coming out this year. Won't really bother me either way because come next April I'll be looking forward to having 2x #1's.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    This is a tough one , as of right now the top ten 2011 class doesnt blow me away. IMHO the PATS really need another stud , another playmaker on this team. Ive been saying this for the past couple months. I keep hearing how deep this draft is , I couldnt disagree more. If so why is everyone trying to trade out of the first , wheres the depth in the first round. This draft isnt deep , its full of alot of guys who are 2nd tier players. And if you really do some homework you'll see that. Look at OLB , no clear cut number one guy , couple talented guys , but no-one stands out from the next. Same deal at WR , you have Bryant(who reportadly gained 10-15 lbs and look a bit out of shape) then 4-5 guys who really arnt first round guys. Seriously you really think Thomas is worth a first round pick , you want to take Williams at 22? Thats not depth , its called mediocrity. I mean this QB class is weak , might be the worse class in 15-20 years , I mean Tebow in the late first or second round , are you kidding me? Then you got the RB class , and 3 out of the top 5 guys are incomplete backs to say the least. Spiller is rated number one in almost every mock I see and as of right now theres no way hes an every down back , same can be said about Dwyer. Im sorry , but you guys spend your life on a football board , but 98% of you have no clue about the game. I can see all of you guys like , " I know so much more than you " and all that BS ,  Its true though. You want to waste a first rounder on D Thomas or B Graham. Thomas has ran TWO routes his whole college career and Graham looked terrible when he actually played OLB. Id trade up and grab a stud like Haden , E Thomas , McClain or maybe even Berry. I have two QBs , 4 maybe 5 OTs and two DTs going in the top ten. If that happens theres a good chance Berry falls out of the top ten. Go for a stud or as much as I hate to say it , trade out.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    (Mord if you believe those reports than the Pats offered up Wilfork before Seymour)

    No way I believe that at all. Seymore is done. He gets injured too much when you need him. What did he get last year 2 sacks and they were in his first game on the opener.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbalance617. Show jbalance617's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    I'm sorry but I think it's a terrible idea
    to trade back the 2011 1st rd pick from
    the Raiders for 2 2nd rd picks. Thats just
    horrible... That pick will probably be a top ten
    pick and 2 2nd rounders just isn't fair compensation.
    BB made a great move. He drafted R. Seymour #6
    overall, got good production out of him for the time he was here
    then traded Seymour for a high pick... Why would BB trade
    a high 1st rd. pick for two 2nd rounders..? An if we trade
    this years 1rd pick for another 2nd rounder then that would be
    10 2nd round picks in the last 3 nfl drafts.......lol Why
    dont we just call ourselves the "NE SECOND ROUNDERS".....
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    Sure he had two sacks last year, but he also had a great year in 08 with 8 sacks (very good for a 3-4 end...how many sacks did Ty Warren have last year?) and also did a good job against the run. I'm not saying I agree with the Raiders thinking but that's what was reported. 


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    (Mord if you believe those reports than the Pats offered up Wilfork before Seymour) No way I believe that at all. Seymore is done. He gets injured too much when you need him. What did he get last year 2 sacks and they were in his first game on the opener.
    Posted by Philskiw

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seanblaze. Show seanblaze's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    With McNabb on his way to Oakland in a weak west you gotta think there is achance the Raiders could possibly win 9-10 games next year. That turns a pick that we thought would be a top 5 into a top 15. This years draft is deep & we have needs all over the place. Gotta think the Pats brass will move this Pick to a team that has a couple 2nd rounders....BB wants nothing to do with dishing out big bucks to a rookie anyway.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    The number 1 pick in the 2011 draft is worth serious coin.  Look what the San Diego Chargers got for Eli Manning. 

    Oakland is likely to crash and burn for a number of reasons. 

    They grossly overpaid a couple of players.  Now they're stuck with them.  Of course everybody else wants to be overpaid too.  I'm happy that Richard Seymour collected the hot cash, but he may be getting a step slower as wear and tear accumulate.  Two solid players do not a defense make.

    Their 2009 first round pick was stupid.  Rookies always do better in their second year, but this guy won't help the team much at all.

    The clubhouse has a poisonous atmosphere.  Where else does a head coach slug another coach?  Did they clean the clubhouse up?  No they didn't.

    The Pats are better off waiting to see if Oakland comes through with a great pick, then cashing in.  The gamble depends on Oakland's luck, Oakland's competence or lack thereof, and maybe on one great player showing up in the 2011 draft.  Maybe Oakland will have a miracle 6-10 season, maybe 2-14.  Maybe a savior player will show up, maybe not.  There's no insurance company available, so BB has to continue with the Patriots' bigtime gamble.  Personally, I think they've got an outside shot at an enormous win.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    As far as what someone said about Wilfork being offered first, I dont believe that at all.  To the rest, I put this in another post, but it fits here too.

    One HUGE thing I think people are failing to see, that keep mentioning us trading the Oak pick.  I know everyone is talking the depth of this draft possibly being the best in 25 year.  One thing that IS NOT said often is that there is not too much elite talent in this draft.  And there isnt.  The best Rb is undersized.  The best QB is coming off a shoulder injury.  The best WR has been suspended and not of elite speed.  The best CB is not super fast to make him elite.  The best ILB has chrones disease and the 2nd best runs like a turtle.  I can go on and on. 

    I would rather keep the pick, hope oak still stinks and maybe get an elite player.  Even at 8 I dont see one this year unless we are lucky.  And for all those wanting Suh.  Remember Dorsey?  the last best in 10 years DL guy or that guy the Jets traded up for that we were rumored to be looking at as well a few years before that, Robertson I think was his name.  We didnt get either one, and I am glad.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    Yes but this pick they could be trading wouldn't be at the 'elite' level of this years draft class. They wouldn't have to pay him elite dollars and, in this draft, you'll still likely get a damn good player with a 1st round pick (say pick 18-24) or 2 2nd rounders as Seanblaze mentioned. 

    Next years draft may suc*k, so why not take a big swing and go for it in the draft that is supposed to be the deepest in 25 years? Again, we're not talking about the elite prospects but adding a guy like Golden Tate, Odrick, or Pouncey THIS year in addition to the 4 picks in the top 53. That possible 5 good players on a 45 man game day roster. 

    This draft is said to have over 50 players with first round games, so pick guys who can play. You can bring up any number of busts in any number of drafts, but I don't see how that supports the point of waiting until next years weak draft class.


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    As far as what someone said about Wilfork being offered first, I dont believe that at all.  To the rest, I put this in another post, but it fits here too. One HUGE thing I think people are failing to see, that keep mentioning us trading the Oak pick.  I know everyone is talking the depth of this draft possibly being the best in 25 year.  One thing that IS NOT said often is that there is not too much elite talent in this draft.  And there isnt.  The best Rb is undersized.  The best QB is coming off a shoulder injury.  The best WR has been suspended and not of elite speed.  The best CB is not super fast to make him elite.  The best ILB has chrones disease and the 2nd best runs like a turtle.  I can go on and on.  I would rather keep the pick, hope oak still stinks and maybe get an elite player.  Even at 8 I dont see one this year unless we are lucky.  And for all those wanting Suh.  Remember Dorsey?  the last best in 10 years DL guy or that guy the Jets traded up for that we were rumored to be looking at as well a few years before that, Robertson I think was his name.  We didnt get either one, and I am glad.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    Oh, so you can see into the future? Isn't that cool. You know next years pick will be in the top ten. Can you give us a hint as to who they'll take? That'd be awesome. That cornerback from LSU? I hear he's good, but I'm sure his stock will plummet when he does something dumb. Next years top prospects always look better. People were clamoring for Mauluga when they drafted Mayo, yet Mayo seems to be a superior player. 

    The truth is there is no certainty that the pick will be high, that they'll be a rookie cap, or that they'll even have football in 2011. So yeah, getting a return on a player before THREE years after a trade wouldn't be a bad idea. 

    And calling the team 'the New England' second rounders would be a great idea in this draft with 50 players that have round 1 talent. Next year there might be 20 players with round 1 talent with all the quality juniors that left for this years draft.


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    I'm sorry but I think it's a terrible idea to trade back the 2011 1st rd pick from the Raiders for 2 2nd rd picks. Thats just horrible... That pick will probably be a top ten pick and 2 2nd rounders just isn't fair compensation. BB made a great move. He drafted R. Seymour #6 overall, got good production out of him for the time he was here then traded Seymour for a high pick... Why would BB trade a high 1st rd. pick for two 2nd rounders..? An if we trade this years 1rd pick for another 2nd rounder then that would be 10 2nd round picks in the last 3 nfl drafts.......lol Why dont we just call ourselves the "NE SECOND ROUNDERS".....
    Posted by jbalance617

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    And honestly, your argument that a lot of the top prospects are huge busts helps the argument that they should trade the pick to this year. Other 'elite' players like Dorsey and Gholston didn't work out, so why not get some value out of the pick in an extremely deep draft this year? An influx or solid talent is needed now at several positions. I'm sure you'll argue that the top of next years draft will be truly elite, but I'd respond by saying that a top player like Patrick Peterson probably won't run a blazing 40 and has never been known as a speedster. You can poke holes in any 'elite' talent.

    I just think the smart money is striking this year. Imagine having 5 or 6 impact rookies? It could happen in this draft.  


    In Response to Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??:
    As far as what someone said about Wilfork being offered first, I dont believe that at all.  To the rest, I put this in another post, but it fits here too. One HUGE thing I think people are failing to see, that keep mentioning us trading the Oak pick.  I know everyone is talking the depth of this draft possibly being the best in 25 year.  One thing that IS NOT said often is that there is not too much elite talent in this draft.  And there isnt.  The best Rb is undersized.  The best QB is coming off a shoulder injury.  The best WR has been suspended and not of elite speed.  The best CB is not super fast to make him elite.  The best ILB has chrones disease and the 2nd best runs like a turtle.  I can go on and on.  I would rather keep the pick, hope oak still stinks and maybe get an elite player.  Even at 8 I dont see one this year unless we are lucky.  And for all those wanting Suh.  Remember Dorsey?  the last best in 10 years DL guy or that guy the Jets traded up for that we were rumored to be looking at as well a few years before that, Robertson I think was his name.  We didnt get either one, and I am glad.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Will we cash in that 2011 1st rounder now??

    If McNabb goes to Oakland, I think Belichick dumps the pick.
     

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