With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Anarchy99. Show Anarchy99's posts

    With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated.

    If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota.

    I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Ha!

    There are a hundred delusional Vikings fans on the KFAN board salivating over this very prospect as we speak.

    Sadly for them (but good for us), it will never happen.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:

    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated. If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota. I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
    Posted by Anarchy99



    LOL. Listen up children because many of you haven't been, so I've got to be the master of the obvious once again.

    Did you see the catch Moss made for a TD? No one else would have made that play.....well maybe Andre Johnson.

    Larry Johnson, Brandon Jacobs, Maroney, Taylor.....the RB's aren't the bulk of the run problems. It's blocking. Period. Most of you watch a game and focus on whoever has the ball because that is what the casual fan sees. They don't know a darned thing about blocking assignments. They don't know the difference between a cross block, drive block, or scramble block. Did you know that an OL tends to be one of the smartest people on a team? That because with the different defenses teams are coming up with, it takes smart people to know what their assignments are. All the casual fan sees is that Freddy T got stuffed at the line. They didn't know that the play was actually a trap but the guard didn't pull so Freddy had to bounce it. WE HAVE A BLOCKING PROBLEM PEOPLE. Check it out next game.

    The Pats gave up 28 points.....THATS NOT AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM! It is a defensive one. Brady can throw the frickin ball to BB's son on the sidelines.....it doesn't matter. As long as the defense has the inability to get out of 3rd and shorts and stop drives, they are going to give up too many points. 

    Some of youl are spoiled children who don't understand a god darned thing about football. What you saw in 2007 was a ONCE IN A LIFETIME performance. It just so happens that it was our beloved Patriots to do it. You aren't going to witness that again ladies and girls. So stop expecting Tom Brady to set records every year. Most winning teams don't win by large margins. They win because they pull out the close games. They know how to close and finish games.


    Jump off of Moss' and Brady's back, learn more about football so you know what you are actually seeing, leave your emotions on the sidelines when diagnosing a performance, and support your team!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mainevent1836. Show mainevent1836's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined... : LOL. Listen up children because many of you haven't been, so I've got to be the master of the obvious once again. Did you see the catch Moss made for a TD? No one else would have made that play.....well maybe Andre Johnson. Larry Johnson, Brandon Jacobs, Maroney, Taylor.....the RB's aren't the bulk of the run problems. It's blocking. Period. Most of you watch a game and focus on whoever has the ball because that is what the casual fan sees. They don't know a darned thing about blocking assignments. They don't know the difference between a cross block, drive block, or scramble block. Did you know that an OL tends to be one of the smartest people on a team? That because with the different defenses teams are coming up with, it takes smart people to know what their assignments are. All the casual fan sees is that Freddy T got stuffed at the line. They didn't know that the play was actually a trap but the guard didn't pull so Freddy had to bounce it. WE HAVE A BLOCKING PROBLEM PEOPLE. Check it out next game. The Pats gave up 28 points.....THATS NOT AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM! It is a defensive one. Brady can throw the frickin ball to BB's son on the sidelines.....it doesn't matter. As long as the defense has the inability to get out of 3rd and shorts and stop drives, they are going to give up too many points.  Some of youl are spoiled children who don't understand a god darned thing about football. What you saw in 2007 was a ONCE IN A LIFETIME performance. It just so happens that it was our beloved Patriots to do it. You aren't going to witness that again ladies and girls. So stop expecting Tom Brady to set records every year. Most winning teams don't win by large margins. They win because they pull out the close games. They know how to close and finish games. Jump off of Moss' and Brady's back, learn more about football so you know what you are actually seeing, leave your emotions on the sidelines when diagnosing a performance, and support your team!
    Posted by 4Adam13


    Amen man, good to see Pats fan who actually has football sense and doesn't go on suicide watch after a loss. Loses happen, unfortunately the Jets out played the Pats in the second half of this game, its a long season, let's move away from the cliff and enjoy the season. The defense will get better with more experience, you can count on it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    It's a shame there aren't more long-winded know-it-all deuschebags on this forum.


    We could really use some.



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:

    It's a shame there aren't more long-winded know-it-all deuschebags on this forum. We could really use some.
    Posted by p-mike


    I see once again the only thing P-Mike can contribute is a wise comment without disputing or adding anything to the discussion. Shame, we could really use more cupcakes like P-Mike on the board contributing nothing in a thread.


    If you don't like what you read, make a point. Back it up. The fact of the matter is, most people are casual fans and don't understand the intricacies of the game. Maybe you were one of the male cheerleaders your whole like, looking up skirts, and standing on the sidelines while the men were on the field. Nothing wrong with that....we need people like you. But if you are going to step onto the field, or post in a thread, offer something other than Rah, Rah, Rah.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Anarchy99. Show Anarchy99's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined... : LOL. Listen up children because many of you haven't been, so I've got to be the master of the obvious once again. Did you see the catch Moss made for a TD? No one else would have made that play.....well maybe Andre Johnson. Larry Johnson, Brandon Jacobs, Maroney, Taylor.....the RB's aren't the bulk of the run problems. It's blocking. Period. Most of you watch a game and focus on whoever has the ball because that is what the casual fan sees. They don't know a darned thing about blocking assignments. They don't know the difference between a cross block, drive block, or scramble block. Did you know that an OL tends to be one of the smartest people on a team? That because with the different defenses teams are coming up with, it takes smart people to know what their assignments are. All the casual fan sees is that Freddy T got stuffed at the line. They didn't know that the play was actually a trap but the guard didn't pull so Freddy had to bounce it. WE HAVE A BLOCKING PROBLEM PEOPLE. Check it out next game. The Pats gave up 28 points.....THATS NOT AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM! It is a defensive one. Brady can throw the frickin ball to BB's son on the sidelines.....it doesn't matter. As long as the defense has the inability to get out of 3rd and shorts and stop drives, they are going to give up too many points.  Some of youl are spoiled children who don't understand a god darned thing about football. What you saw in 2007 was a ONCE IN A LIFETIME performance. It just so happens that it was our beloved Patriots to do it. You aren't going to witness that again ladies and girls. So stop expecting Tom Brady to set records every year. Most winning teams don't win by large margins. They win because they pull out the close games. They know how to close and finish games. Jump off of Moss' and Brady's back, learn more about football so you know what you are actually seeing, leave your emotions on the sidelines when diagnosing a performance, and support your team!
    Posted by 4Adam13

    Well, since you brought up all things that had nothing to do with what I posted . . .

    I never even mentioned Brady let alone suggested that the offense shuold setting any records.  And I did not even mention Moss' good points or bad points.

    But you mentioned that defense was the problem.  I say the defense has problems BECAUSE of the offensive problems.

    Last year, the Pats averaged 9 points a game in the second half, half as many as they averaged in the first half.  The offensive numbers were worse on the road where they went 1-6 in true road games.

    Counting the Jets game, in their last 8 road games, New England has been outscored in the second half 116-41.  That's basically being outscored 15-5.  You're not going to win many games scoring only 5 points in the second half.

    What do you think happens when your team doesn't score, gets very few first downs, and has a bunch of three and outs?  The defense stays on the field.  And because of that, they have problems getting off the field when they have to play three times as much as the offense does late in games.

    The SB winning Pats teams were the ones that would crank out 9 or 10 minute drives in the 4th quarter to put games out of reach.  The Pats circa 2009-2010 don't appear to be able to do that on the road.

    So no, this is not a naysayer post about losing one game to the Jets.  It's pointing out a problem that has existed for a while and still appears to be an issue.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Trade Moss, kill the New England offense. Might as well auction Welker in the trade because he'll be pretty ineffective in the offense. Moss can create a Wes Welker (Julian Edelman), Welker can not create a Randy Moss. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Anarchy,

    Thank you for at least rebutting my comments. Now we can argue about it.

    Maybe I mistook your post, but I took it as getting rid of Moss because Brady has been targeting him and not spreading the ball around. Correct? There are other discussions on this topic in other threads, but my rebuttal to that is that it isn't a Randy Moss problem. It isn't a RB problem. Tom can spread the ball to 5 different people all game but that doesn't solve the defensive woes.

    I dispute your point about the offense creating the defensive problem. While there is some truth in your point about an offense eating up the clock, it has nothing to do with Butler not turning his head around to see the ball on numerous occasions (and he did grab edwards jersey on one of the PI calls). It also has nothing to do with the LB's consistently giving up 5-8 yard passes like a clown gives out lollipops to children. This has caused the Pats D to be in 3rd and short consistently. The offense has nothing to do with not have a genuine pass rusher who teams have to either double team or risk letting him get a sack or pressure on the QB every play. Watch the Colts. Mathis and Freeney.....one or both of them are always getting to the QB. I hate the Colts....hate, hate, hate em. Next to the Jets, I hate them almost as much. But you got to admire the Mathis / Freeney combination. It is one of the best in the league. Their ability to get to the ball has nothing to do with Peyton Manning. Hence, our defensive problems are not the result of our offense. They could use some more rest, sure. But they are to blame themselves for a lot of the situations they find themselves in.

    Agree?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    One other thing Anarchy, I mentioned the 2007 team because these boards have been filled with posts ever since about executing the Pats offense. While it has been bad at times, many people on here keep wanting to use 2007 as a benchmark....comments about the offense being better during the SB years, Moss makes Brady a worse QB, the running game is worse, etc, etc, etc. While there is some truth to some of that, the fact is, and what my point was about, is that it isn't fair to EVER compare any team's offense to the 2007 Pats. That was a special year.

    I'm not saying you were comparing them, but it was relevant to the totality of the discussion.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined... : LOL. Listen up children because many of you haven't been, so I've got to be the master of the obvious once again. Did you see the catch Moss made for a TD? No one else would have made that play.....well maybe Andre Johnson. Larry Johnson, Brandon Jacobs, Maroney, Taylor.....the RB's aren't the bulk of the run problems. It's blocking. Period. Most of you watch a game and focus on whoever has the ball because that is what the casual fan sees. They don't know a darned thing about blocking assignments. They don't know the difference between a cross block, drive block, or scramble block. Did you know that an OL tends to be one of the smartest people on a team? That because with the different defenses teams are coming up with, it takes smart people to know what their assignments are. All the casual fan sees is that Freddy T got stuffed at the line. They didn't know that the play was actually a trap but the guard didn't pull so Freddy had to bounce it. WE HAVE A BLOCKING PROBLEM PEOPLE. Check it out next game. The Pats gave up 28 points.....THATS NOT AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM! It is a defensive one. Brady can throw the frickin ball to BB's son on the sidelines.....it doesn't matter. As long as the defense has the inability to get out of 3rd and shorts and stop drives, they are going to give up too many points.  Some of youl are spoiled children who don't understand a god darned thing about football. What you saw in 2007 was a ONCE IN A LIFETIME performance. It just so happens that it was our beloved Patriots to do it. You aren't going to witness that again ladies and girls. So stop expecting Tom Brady to set records every year. Most winning teams don't win by large margins. They win because they pull out the close games. They know how to close and finish games. Jump off of Moss' and Brady's back, learn more about football so you know what you are actually seeing, leave your emotions on the sidelines when diagnosing a performance, and support your team!
    Posted by 4Adam13


    Good for Moss, he made an acrobatic one handed catch for a TD, where'd he go in the 2nd half (5 targets to Moss in the 2nd half, resulting in no catches and 2 INT's)?  IMO, they force the ball into him far too much and agree with those that think the offense is more efficient when Brady spread's the ball around and finds the open receiver.

    As for their blocking, they've averaged 4 YPC (5.1 YPC on 23 attempts vs. Cincy and who runs on the Jets with good backs?) over the first two games with garbage RB's (and withouth Mankins) which leaves them 13th in the NFL while only giving up 1 sack through two games (best in the NFL) while ranking just outside the top 10 in pass attempts.  Please provide examples of consistent issues upfront.

    Personally, 2007 makes me sick everytime I think of it.  I don't really care if they started 18-0, bottom line is they didn't get the job done.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    As far as forcing the ball to Moss. You have to throw to him at times to keep the defense honest. Brady tried to hit Moss on a bomb during the first drive. While it wasn't successful, it helps to stretch the defense and allows those 5-10 yard passes to the backs, TE's, and slot under the middle.

    Yeah, I agree, Brady is more efficient when spreading the ball around. Yes, he did force it several times in the 2nd half. But Cromartie covered Moss pretty well. Do you really think that Wes Welker would lead the NFL in receptions without Randy Moss? Seriously? Welker is great, don't get me wrong. But he is great because of Randy Moss. Otherwise he is a good receiver. Traditionally slot receivers don't lead the NFL in receptions. Moss is vital. I would trade Moss for Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitz. Those are the only receivers who bring to an offense what Moss does.

    As far as the OL debate. I don't argue their pass blocking skills. They are excellent in pass blocking generally speaking. But do you really think that Adrian Peterson would be great with our run blocking? Fred Taylor would be a 1000 yrd rusher with the Dolphins. Has he lost a step? Yeah absolutely. Could he benefit from better run calling plays? Absolutely. But the fact is, the Pats offensive line gets pushed around on run plays. They don't dominate the line of scrimmage. You just have to watch replays to see that. Mankins would probably help. The guard position is vital on trap and cross blocks. Mankins is a great player. I wish things hadn't turned out how they did. But I think the Pats failed in preparing for this day through the draft over the past 5 years with securing some run blocking OL. We've been too concerned at times with protecting Tom Brady and consequently we have been generally successful at that.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated. If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota. I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
    Posted by Anarchy99

    As long as they ship Jared Allen to the Pats in returm
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Moss is way too involved/game plan in this Patriot offense.  NOT a good idea at this point to deal moss. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    Moss changes the playing field.

    Next time you watch the Patriots, take a look at the coverage on Moss's ENTIRE SIDE OF THE FIELD as they stretch out to cover him.  Double and triple coverage on Moss really helps open things up for everyone else.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    It's a shame there aren't more long-winded know-it-all deuschebags on this forum. We could really use some.
    Posted by p-mike



    this from a fan who admits to wearing a bag over his head at a Pats game...talk about deuschebags you should know.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from changes1677. Show changes1677's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    My money is on Moss retiring a Patriot. I dont see him being traded or leaving, he will get his money and his years and he will be happy to be here.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life


    youd figure he would agree to taking less money again like before, to be able play with brady and a team that has a chance to win.  Im sure he doesnt need to hit the bank with a contract.  The dude has made his money for his career.   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...



    "WE GAVE UP 28 POINTS....THAT'S NOT AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM"......

    Yeah, the defense did give up 28 points, but TB and the offense didn't do them any favors in the second half by scoring ZERO points and turning over the ball THREE times either. 

    You can't expect a young defense to perform at a consistently high level all game when they are put on the field too much and in difficult situations. So, I do agree the defense might have done a better job stopping the Jets, but I put a lot of that on the offense as well for putting the team in tough situations all 2nd half...
    Jets game, NO 2nd half points, 3 turnovers, too many 3 and outs. Seems like an offense issue to me.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pochen23. Show pochen23's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    It doesn't matter if he has the money tho, why does he always have to take the pay cut to play with Tom Brady, did Tom Brady take a pay cut to stay in the NE? He is the highest pay QB in the league. It is all about pride, I am one of the best WRs in the league and I should be paid like one. I am pretty sure Brady doesn't need the money either but he is still demanding a fair contract.

    The truth is, Randy Moss isn't stupid, if he ever leaves NE due to NE not offering a contract or not a fair one, he will go to another team that is a Randy Moss away from contending that offers him a fair deal. Looking at the league I see plenty of teams that are one Randy Moss away from being elite. Randy Moss doesn't need NE to win, it is almost the other way around as the Pats are not as good defensively and running the ball as they were in their championship years, so they need a better offense to win now, and that has to include Randy Moss.

    As good as Tom Brady is, he doesn't throw the best deep ball. Imaging Randy Moss and Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning, god that would be nasty...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated. If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota. I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
    Posted by Anarchy99


         Vincent Jackson supposedly is available for a 2nd and a 3rd round draft choice.

         If the Pats trade Moss, that would signal that they're throwing in the towel on this season. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pochen23. Show pochen23's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    The problem is Vincent Jackson isn't very good. He is the product of that offense. Look at what Floyd is doing, he is essentially the same exact thing.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated. If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota. I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
    Posted by Anarchy99


    Just got off the phone with Bill..............NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    You guys are nuts!  The pats won before Randy and they will win after Randy.  Does Randy stretch defenses and cause them to take time from practices just to gameplan for him? yes!  However.. if I was Kraft and someone offered me a 1st rounder for him... im taking that.  Moss is getting up there in years and he only has so much juice left.  Forcing the ball to Randy in the second half lost us that game.  Welker.. moss.. Hernandez + a little Fred Taylor running was working in the first half and then it turned into the Tom and Randy show in the second.  If we dealt Randy for a 1st rounder we would have 3 first round picks!  We take Julio Jones or AJ Green at WR to help compensate as best you can for losing Moss.  Then you use the other 2 first roun d picks to shore up your defense.  I wouldnt mind Mark Ingram for that matter either.  AJ Green, Mark Ingram, and the Best DE we can get.  Thats just round 1.... Round 2 I focus on the OL and more pass rush.  With that draft our Offense is set for the rest of Bradys carreer and our defense would be a huge upgrade and a year older.

    Ender
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    I don't think the Patriots probably spend a great deal of time figuring out other teams problems or how they can solve them.  Add in that BB and Chilly don't like each other and I doubt any phone calls get made.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...

    In Response to With Harvin and Rice Sidelined...:
    Would the Pats consider shipping Moss back to Minnesota?  The Vikings have practically no one for Favre to throw to.  Rice is out for half the season (if not longer) and Harvin's hip injury apparently is worse than originally anticipated. If New England doesn't plan to keep Moss past this year, I wonder if they could wrestle another first round pick from Minnesota. I'm not saying that they SHOULD consider this, I'm just wondering IF they would consider it.  As many have pointed out, the offense seemed to work more consistently when Brady spread the ball around more.
    Posted by Anarchy99


    sheez




     
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