WITH MOSS GONE, WE ARE 14-2... WITH 2004 + 2001 TOUGHNESS!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    WITH MOSS GONE, WE ARE 14-2... WITH 2004 + 2001 TOUGHNESS!

    this is a repost of what i initiated back on october 5th when word came down that randy moss was off his way to becoming little more than a footnote on the road to the patriots' second dynasty. yep, i am presuming a WIN this week even if we go with hoyer for 3 quarters!  

    i have been the biggest BILLbuster as of late on this board. he LOST his belichikian mojo. i was the one who posted about how peyton manning scarred him after that 2006 loss, the first time he had EVER lost with a lead going into the 4th quarter and we were clearly outgunned. bel vowed to never have tommy outgunned again. unfortunately, through no fault of moss, we became a SOFT team and ended up switching schemes with the colts. all finesse on both defense and offense.

    unlike indy, we do not play in a SOFT dome and it was not our identity. welker and edelman are more the prototype of toughness this team freakin needs. its not a tangible issue, its a karma-intangible thing. moss still is talented and will be great in minny. i saw the jets game after revis went out and i almost threw a shoe through my TV as brady went to him over and over at the clear detriment to the greater good of the team. without him, we can go back to 2004. we can rediscover our HARDNESS. time to blowup this present SOFT incarnation of our team. no more prima donna stuff.

    that process clearly started in earnest last night. if welk doesnt get his touches and catches, he is not pouting. he is by far the MOST underpaid receiver right now, yet i do not see him giving ultimatums. we have more than enough weapons to throw the rock around to. no more star system, no more hollywood, no more playing for sportscenter or fantasy owners.

    i hope this happens tomorrow! a second or third rounder will do the trick. bravo to belichick! tommy may throw a gissy tantrum or two but he will come around and go back to how he was in 2004. this team will be better without moss and on its way to another ring! its time to get HARD!

    the only team i can see beating us after this move would be Pittsburgh! beyond that, we should run the table and just like 2004, be 14-2...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    moron
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Care to make a friendly interent wager on that?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    Care to make a friendly interent wager on that?
    Posted by jesseyeric


    sure i just love INTERENT wagers!seriously, on this in bel i trust! he has been spot on with these types of deals. remember terry glenn, millloy? assuming moss is just a piece which also involves mankins and perhaps vincent jackson in a multi-team BLOCKBUSTER!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    the collective is greater than the individual!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Do we have a 2004 defense? No. 

    This team is built to score while the defense holds off the other team. Our defense isn't bad, they just need a pass rush. We still don't have one! Whatever, I guess. 



    2 firsts, second, third, fourth and fifth round picks. Let's start building a better team. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Stupid Trade by the pats. We are 3-1 and Moss commands the double team. Way to give up on the season early.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    yeah edelman is such a tough guy he can barely stay on the field. and patsfan76, all that having 2 picks in all those rounds means is that a third of those picks will get traded back and flipped for future drafts yet again. get a clue. BB now has enough mid round ammunition to start dealing away those higher picks as usual.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    It's one thing to be a fan. It's another to blindly think everything they do is great.

    Remember, it has been 6 LOOOOONG years since they were champs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    Do we have a 2004 defense? No.  This team is built to score while the defense holds off the other team. Our defense isn't bad, they just need a pass rush. We still don't have one! Whatever, I guess.  2 firsts, second, third, fourth and fifth round picks. Let's start building a better team. 
    Posted by 49Patriots

    What do you think the PATS have been doing for the past 6 years.  Building for the future.  And when dies the future get here?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    In Response to Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS! : sure i just love INTERENT wagers!seriously, on this in bel i trust! he has been spot on with these types of deals. remember terry glenn, millloy? assuming moss is just a piece which also involves mankins and perhaps vincent jackson in a multi-team BLOCKBUSTER!
    Posted by KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN


    What shall it be then? I am open to suggestions.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from habssuck09. Show habssuck09's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    should be 4-0 if Brady wasn't forcing the ball to Moss in the second half of the Jets game Tate was wide open more than once ...time to get back to the old offense just hit the open guy
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Oh yeah, this is great.  Just in time for the Ravens game.  Now we can get tough again.  Right on about the draught.  The future will look back at two super bowl eras and the Moss era in between.


    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    It's one thing to be a fan. It's another to blindly think everything they do is great. Remember, it has been 6 LOOOOONG years since they were champs.
    Posted by boomerst3

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Oh No! Stay with me 49Patriots.  The players you have been standing behind in the face of the doubters are about to show you right.  This offense is built to score, and they will.  Brady, Hernandez, Welker, Benny, Gronk, Tate.  Don't even compare the defense to 2004.  Other SB winners couldn't say they had a D as good as the Pats in 04 either.  We have missed Givens and Graham and Smith/Dillon.  That is what's coming back.



    In Response to Re: TRADE MOSS AND WE GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    Do we have a 2004 defense? No.  This team is built to score while the defense holds off the other team. Our defense isn't bad, they just need a pass rush. We still don't have one! Whatever, I guess.  2 firsts, second, third, fourth and fifth round picks. Let's start building a better team. 
    Posted by 49Patriots

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    It's one thing to be a fan. It's another to blindly think everything they do is great. Remember, it has been 6 LOOOOONG years since they were champs.
    Posted by boomerst3


    This proves that the Pats were not going to resign Moss. I don't like the trade but I have to agree with it based on those terms. I do agree with your post boomerst3. Do I consider myself a die hard Pats fan. YES! Do I agree with every move they have made. NO! I seem to read a lot of post here, and the impression I get from others on this forum is that if you don't agree with every move BB does, your a "troll", "pink hat" ect.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Moss was considered a bad move when he arrived.  Remember.  He wasn't even playing well.  Amazing what playing with Brady, et al did for him.

    Funny that Moss is all distracted by his money for next year and beyond, and the Pats sent him to a team with Favre who can't look past this year.  Their window is now.  We'll see how that works out.  Maybe they'll pay him to shut him up and give them a chance this year, then T Jackson can match up with him for a few years of overpaid obscurity.  In the meantime, you don't think Brady will win games?  "Patriots fans are too positive :("  You don't think Brady is going to spend the rest of his career winning?  Then you're not in reality.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from veeve. Show veeve's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    @KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN

    That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all morning long.  You obviously don't get football.  I'll try and explain this as simply as possible.  When you have a receiver that demands a double team all game long, that leaves the offense with an advantage on every play because between the remaining players, you are essentially playing 10 against 9.  You should check the Kool-Aid to see if it is spiked with something nefarious before you drink it.  Belechick may think he is God, but he's not.  And even God couldn't propel the dregs left behind on this offense to a championship now.  This defense is too young and lacks any ability to rush the passer.  Stop wasting disk space with crazy talk.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Yeah, I agree it's FUN to have different opinions.  Gives us something to talk about.

    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS! : This proves that the Pats were not going to resign Moss. I don't like the trade but I have to agree with it based on those terms. I do agree with your post boomerst3. Do I consider myself a die hard Pats fan. YES! Do I agree with every move they have made. NO! I seem to read a lot of post here, and the impression I get from others on this forum is that if you don't agree with every move BB does, your a "troll", "pink hat" ect.
    Posted by Rodimus77

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    OK, OK,Moss spread the defense.  Everyone is excited about woodhead?  Go look at the touchdown pass he caught.  Moss is just a dip deeper and to the offensive left with two defenders on him.  I get that.  Now are you going to tell me that all the SB teams have that.  Who was that for the Patriots before Moss, when they were winning!  It was done inside, with bdass players.  There's more than one way to go about it, and the Moss way hasn't work.  Not for Minnesota, certainly not for the Raiders, and not even for the Brady lead Pats who were used to winning before he arrived.

    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    @ KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all morning long.  You obviously don't get football.  I'll try and explain this as simply as possible.  When you have a receiver that demands a double team all game long, that leaves the offense with an advantage on every play because between the remaining players, you are essentially playing 10 against 9.  You should check the Kool-Aid to see if it is spiked with something nefarious before you drink it.  Belechick may think he is God, but he's not.  And even God couldn't propel the dregs left behind on this offense to a championship now.  This defense is too young and lacks any ability to rush the passer.  Stop wasting disk space with crazy talk.
    Posted by veeve

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    pats76 and lightning you both get it, the real issue with moss comes down to both  a PLAY and PAY situation. on play, its obvious the bel chose to go back to the 2004 style that somehow won us 2 straight rings with deion branch at the moss position. as i recall, he often attracted double teams too. tate can certainly be as good as branch. bel clearly overreacted to what peyton manning did to him in 2006. we needed an evolution or tweak, not a REVOLUTION and full-scale overall. 

    welk may not get 110 balls this year but others will increase their production. so what, if flanker isnt double teamed. how did we do it before? someone is open on every play, no team can double every one or not cover anyone on the pats and not get burned. according to brady, price, slaughter, and tate are all as fast or even faster than moss. once a tate makes a few plays, they too will get the same level of respect from the defense. moss became bigger than the team. 

    pats are obviously going more for a strap it on and scrap and slap approach. that is not and never has been that kind of player. he is SOFT and finesse and avoiding most physical contact at all costs. 2007 was a catch 22 that finally caught up to us. the more we went to moss and a superstar approach, the more SOFT and peyton-like we became. giants and others esp elite teams on the road exploited that ever since (starting with ravens actually in 2007). 

    #2 on PAY. no doubt bel made the right choice on this one. even had he been paid, moss would have been ticked for his ego would not allow him to passively accept not being the focus on every other play. good riddance. it was accept another manny cancer or focus on winning. another player can be the decoy happily and eventually do most of what moss did with a more physical presence. moss is not an end all. how many rings did he bring here? the next ring he gets will quadruple what he has done for his entire career... ONE. 

    now moss can be MANNY in MINNY.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE COULD GO 14-2?... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    VEEVE YOU DEFINITELY DONT GET IT. 49PATRIOTS. jessey and boomer less so. lets see what happens versus baltimore. if we get torched because receivers cant get separation, perhaps you have a point. if 10 guys catch the ball and 4 get targeted 6 times and we win as we did in baltimore, we will be well on our way! with all these young guys, it is a nice lesson for the young guys to c. no one is bigger than the team. if we can let a moss go, no one is immune. 

    expect more HEAD. can c him bringing the WOOD by flanking out more, along with slaughter and price and tate. hey, they could collectively have 9 catches in 4 games too. hernandez can be now be more featured also on the inside without anyone whining. brady loves going there. coming out of college, woodhead ran a 4.3. 

    we can go bak to a short to medium range passing game being dominant with a few shots down field, opposed to a medium-long range thrower who reluctantly goes short (only to welker). moss was targeted more times beyond 30 yards than any WR in football not named calvin johnson (yep, how has that worked out for detroit?).   

    with 2 firsts, 2 secs, 2 thirds, 2 fourths, pats have a huge draft pick advantage. with new CBA, we are the BEST positioned. i will not prioritize a vincent jackson trade right now. see what these youngies can do. use those picks on a pass rusher and a rb and to get a #1 in 2012 and 2013. just add to your future stength. anyone see how young this team is? we will be DOMINANT over the next 10 years with pieces in place for the indefinite future!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wttiger516. Show wttiger516's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE COULD GO 14-2?... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    Or more likely we are going to be 6 and 10
    Baltimore - Not (3-2)
    @ Chargers - Doubtful (3-3)
    Vikings - Not (3-4)
    @ Cleve - Yes (4-4)
    @ Pittsburg - Not (4-5)
    Colts - Not (4-6)
    @ Det - Yes (5-6)
    JETS - Not (5-7)
    @ CHi - Not (5-8)
    GB - Doubtful (5-9)
    Buffalo - Yes (6-9)
    Miami - Yes (6-10)
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE WILL GO 14-2... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    @ KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all morning long.  You obviously don't get football.  I'll try and explain this as simply as possible.  When you have a receiver that demands a double team all game long, that leaves the offense with an advantage on every play because between the remaining players, you are essentially playing 10 against 9.  You should check the Kool-Aid to see if it is spiked with something nefarious before you drink it.  Belechick may think he is God, but he's not.  And even God couldn't propel the dregs left behind on this offense to a championship now.  This defense is too young and lacks any ability to rush the passer.  Stop wasting disk space with crazy talk.
    Posted by veeve
    to veeve and the rest of the haters: ONE DOWN, 10 MORE WINS TO GO!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE COULD GO 14-2?... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!

    In Response to Re: WITH MOSS GONE, WE COULD GO 14-2?... WITH 2004 TOUGHNESS!:
    VEEVE YOU DEFINITELY DONT GET IT. 49PATRIOTS. jessey and boomer less so. lets see what happens versus baltimore. if we get torched because receivers cant get separation, perhaps you have a point. if 10 guys catch the ball and 4 get targeted 6 times and we win as we did in baltimore, we will be well on our way! with all these young guys, it is a nice lesson for the young guys to c. no one is bigger than the team. if we can let a moss go, no one is immune.  expect more HEAD. can c him bringing the WOOD by flanking out more, along with slaughter and price and tate. hey, they could collectively have 9 catches in 4 games too. hernandez can be now be more featured also on the inside without anyone whining. brady loves going there. coming out of college, woodhead ran a 4.3.  we can go bak to a short to medium range passing game being dominant with a few shots down field, opposed to a medium-long range thrower who reluctantly goes short (only to welker). moss was targeted more times beyond 30 yards than any WR in football not named calvin johnson (yep, how has that worked out for detroit?).    with 2 firsts, 2 secs, 2 thirds, 2 fourths, pats have a huge draft pick advantage. with new CBA, we are the BEST positioned. i will not prioritize a vincent jackson trade right now. see what these youngies can do. use those picks on a pass rusher and a rb and to get a #1 in 2012 and 2013. just add to your future stength. anyone see how young this team is? we will be DOMINANT over the next 10 years with pieces in place for the indefinite future!
    Posted by KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN


    I was never saying that trading Moss was a bad thing. NE always has my respect as a team. I just believe that 14 - 2 is a very difficult record to come by this year for any team in the NFL.
     
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