With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I guess, once again, because BB has not followed the model that many on this forum advocate his plan is deficient.  I'm therefore compelled to pose the question:

    What is BB's master plan, if you please?  

    If by the start of the regular season he's not staffed the 53-man roster adequately (and even then it may be too soon to judge) then perhaps the word 'mistake' applies.  Until then all of this, without exception, is speculation and anticipatory second-guessing.  

     



    Thats what a forum board is

     

     



    No its a place to just stand by and watch what the pats to and bask in the glory that is BB. 

     

     

    You can't say the D has been bad.

    You can't say anything about free agency or how bad dead money has been in the past.  Drafting is totally off limits.

    You can't talk about any problems on the offense except Brady.  It is always Brady fault... playcalling, formations, personnel, and execution.  BB and the coaching staffs hands are tied with that one under center.

     

    If you follow these guidelines you can talk about whatever you want without being attacked or called names. 

    Have a great time on this message board!  Oh and if you haven't been a fan since 83 or before you are not a real fan and your opinion does not matter step aside and just read what your "betters" post.

     

    Discussion died about four years back. Now everyone is spoiled who brings up anything they think can be or might have been an improvement for the team in a place it use to thrive.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    According to Field Yates, BB is in Lawrence, KS to work out a trio of Jayhawks. I am sure he will find at least a couple of  future all Pro in that 1-11 team (0-9 in conference play). Maybe he is there to recruit for Doc Rivers.

     
     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    Yes, why don't you call BB and tell him doing due dilligence before the draft is a big time mistake and to just wildly open a checkbook for someone like Mike Wallace at 13 million per.




    I  think he should go to scout in Lawrence, MA, and take the Mega Bus to get there.

    Can you point to one instance where I voiced the opinion that the Pats should sign Mike Wallace? Or you just shoot from the hip, as it is obvious to a lot of people around here.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    OK, dismounting my high horse here to respond to a couple of posts.

    PatsEng:  I can't really disagree with anything that you posted in reponse to my last post.  I guess what I could have said in something less than snarky fashion was that I'd like to withhold judgment on what BB has done until FA period is essentially over.  BB has hardly been perfect in his FA work but all in all the team has remained competitive.  You can argue as to why that is but in the final analysis the coach and GM are accountable for this.

    csylvia79:  I understand your points.  Please see my response to PatsEng above.  For the record, I wasn't saying that BB isn't open to criticism nor would I ever question anyone's credentials as a Pats fan.  What I was saying, perhaps not as cordially as I might have, is that I think we're being premature in our criticism.

    nomadfan:  I guess my question to you would be:  is there no NFL level talent even on a 1-11 team?  Perhaps a late rounder with some athelticism that needs some tuning up?  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     


    Yes, why don't you call BB and tell him doing due dilligence before the draft is a big time mistake and to just wildly open a checkbook for someone like Mike Wallace at 13 million per.

     




     

    I  think he should go to scout in Lawrence, MA, and take the Mega Bus to get there.

    Can you point to one instance where I voiced the opinion that the Pats should sign Mike Wallace? Or you just shoot from the hip, as it is obvious to a lot of people around here.

     



    Ding, ding, ding, ding!!!  And we have a winner here, folks!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    WHo knows grimes best and what he is worth? Atlanta? Did they sign him? I know nothing of Atalantas cap space or if they could afford him or make restructures to afford him etc.

    ...but I have also read a number of articles that stated that in addition to having absolutely no idea how he would be returning from the achilles injury that he is considered by some  to potentially be a one year wonder. Stating that he really only had one great season and the others were avg.

    I persoanlly have no idea as I do not follow other teams but I have no problem wih the Patriots not going after him as a let's see what happens thing. I would rather NOT pay more than what we gave Talib for a have no idea how healthy or good he will play CB.

     



    Using that logic we are in trouble signing Jones, Amendola, Jenkins, Washington, and Wilson

     



    With regards to an achilles injury? Did we sign or resign a guy coming off of an achilles injury for 5.5 million for one year that only had one outstanding season?

    He took a huge step back from 2010 to 2011 which is why many write about his 2010 season being the abberation and not the norm. Then missed 2012. So you are expecting him to go back to 2010 form 1st season back from achilles injury? I guess he could, who knows.

    Amendolas stats have gotten better every year while being on the field. Jenkins stats have been consistently about the same for most of his career and he is going into his 2nd year removed from a knee injury which is widely believed to be better for the athlete than the 1st year back, like Grimes. Donald Jones production gone up every year while on the field. Wilsons production has declined a bit succesively over the last three seasons which is a concern but at least they signed him for 5mil over three years and not 1 year for 5.5 after having his production drop in half in a single season like Grimes. Washington did not have a huge drop off in production nor is coming off a major injury.

    The cost, 1st year back from injury, and potential 1yr abberation are things I think Atalanta would have a solid grip on in their decision making. Yep I still believe in that logic, but mainly because the Personnel guy, Dimitroff, was a Patriots guy.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    ATJ

    Woodhead went to Chadron College, a school no one had heard of , but he broke all sorts of records there.

    Jerry Rice' nickname in college was "world", he can catch any ball thrown to him.

    But one has to play the odds as to where you are more likely to find top notch players.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    WHo knows grimes best and what he is worth? Atlanta? Did they sign him? I know nothing of Atalantas cap space or if they could afford him or make restructures to afford him etc.

    ...but I have also read a number of articles that stated that in addition to having absolutely no idea how he would be returning from the achilles injury that he is considered by some  to potentially be a one year wonder. Stating that he really only had one great season and the others were avg.

    I persoanlly have no idea as I do not follow other teams but I have no problem wih the Patriots not going after him as a let's see what happens thing. I would rather NOT pay more than what we gave Talib for a have no idea how healthy or good he will play CB.

     



    Using that logic we are in trouble signing Jones, Amendola, Jenkins, Washington, and Wilson

     

     



    With regards to an achilles injury? Did we sign or resign a guy coming off of an achilles injury for 5.5 million for one year that only had one outstanding season?

     

    He took a huge step back from 2010 to 2011 which is why many write about his 2010 season being the abberation and not the norm. Then missed 2012. So you are expecting him to go back to 2010 form 1st season back from achilles injury? I guess he could, who knows.

    Amendolas stats have gotten better every year while being on the field. Jenkins stats have been consistently about the same for most of his career and he is going into his 2nd year removed from a knee injury which is widely believed to be better for the athlete than the 1st year back, like Grimes. Donald Jones production gone up every year while on the field. Wilsons production has declined a bit succesively over the last three seasons which is a concern but at least they signed him for 5mil over three years and not 1 year for 5.5 after having his production drop in half in a single season like Grimes. Washington did not have a huge drop off in production nor is coming off a major injury.

    The cost, 1st year back from injury, and potential 1yr abberation are things I think Atalanta would have a solid grip on in their decision making. Yep I still believe in that logic, but mainly because the Personnel guy, Dimitroff, was a Patriots guy.



    Everytime you add "when on the field" you are essentially saying the same thing about those guys as you are Grimes. If healthy Grimes can be a very productive CB and certainly starting caliber. When healthy Amendola can be a very productive WR and certainly starting caliber.

    If you are citing the difference in injures as the main factor between the two I ask what's the difference? Amendola wasn't just a coller bone or elbow he also had ankle, foot, and legs injures in 2012 that prevented him from finishing a 1/3 of the games he was in. Those nagging injures also add up too.

    Jones also had multiple ankle injures and calf issues. Those types of nagging injures are a bigger concern to me the an achellis. Because they tend to follow players where once achellis heal most players recover fine without the nagging issues.

    The point is you can't make a general statement like that when your team signs two injury prone WR's as your #1 and #2 WR's. If you are going to take the high risk with them (high risk in that they are your starters right now) then taking a risk on another player isn't out of the question either. You can't have it both ways.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

    ATJ

    Woodhead went to Chadron College, a school no one had heard of , but he broke all sorts of records there.

    Jerry Rice' nickname in college was "world", he can catch any ball thrown to him.

    But one has to play the odds as to where you are more likely to find top notch players.

     



    Don't disagree at all.  Just wondering what other schools BB has visited during this draft cycle.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    Last I check Abraham is still unsigned.  Grimes has played in as many games as Amendola has the past 2 seasons and he is coming off an injury that has either ended or severely impacted the careers of a lot of great players.  Had we signed him at that price I guarantee people would be coming out of the woodwork complaining we had overpaid for another injury prone player.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    You have that a little wrong. Without Sterling Moore Lee Evans is not open



    I know he made the play that sent us on, period. 

    You keep believing that we need an all pro at every position, that we need to sign a 5 million dollar corner to man the 4th corner position. 

    I can tell you that Grimes isn't better than Talib, Dennard, Arrington or Sterling Moore for that matter.  Grimes has been healthy for 16 games twice in his career and only been a starter for one of those.  I find it funny that the same people knocking Belichick for signing players who get injured are scrambling for us to sign some of the most injury heavy players in free agency and overpay for mediocre, injury prone talents.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    I sais BB would "Shock the World" and move up in last years draft, so hopefully this years mild "shocker" will make us all breathe a lil easier come draft day.  We WILL acquire a few picks in this years draft (Maybe a 3rd and 5th) but not by trading away Mallett. BB will once again deviate from the norm and trade picks from 2014 in order to take advantage a deep 2013 draft at postions we need. Seeing that the Pats will most likely get some nice comp. picks for losing Welker, Chung et all, 2014's draft is like an ATM spitting out the money we need for today. Add to the fact that unless a player BB really covets sits at 29, we will almost certainly move down into the 2nd and get a few more mid round selections. 

    P.S.  The Abraham thing isn't over yet as his market will shrink even more after the draft....me still thinks he will be wearing The Flying Elvis on opening day.....




    I agree that BB will move up in this years first round, unless of course the DT he wants is still sitting there, considering how deep the position is that doesn't seem unlikely, but it won't be a shocker considering he did it twice last year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    ATJ

    Woodhead went to Chadron College, a school no one had heard of , but he broke all sorts of records there.

    Jerry Rice' nickname in college was "world", he can catch any ball thrown to him.

    But one has to play the odds as to where you are more likely to find top notch players.

     

     



    Don't disagree at all.  Just wondering what other schools BB has visited during this draft cycle.

     




    Miami and Mississippi, to name a few. I'm sure there have been more. For some reason I'm thinking Missouri as well, and I know the Patriots were at UCONN's pro-day, presumably to take a look at their talented CB, Blidi Wreh-Wilson.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    He move up last yr and shocked the world, I dont see him moving up in this years 1st but getting extra 2nd thru 5th rounder by trading picks from next yrs draft. Moving up again this year would be a shocker to me.....



    The rookie wage scale has changed the value of rookies vs risk, where it was once a risk to sign high #1 picks because you were spending so much money on an unknown commodity now the money is much more reasonable, so where BB once looked towards the end of the 1st to the top of the 2nd as value, you can now include the top half of the draft.  I think it far more likely BB stays put and picks where he is at but it won't surprise me if he moves up, things have changed.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to csylvia79's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I guess, once again, because BB has not followed the model that many on this forum advocate his plan is deficient.  I'm therefore compelled to pose the question:

    What is BB's master plan, if you please?  

    If by the start of the regular season he's not staffed the 53-man roster adequately (and even then it may be too soon to judge) then perhaps the word 'mistake' applies.  Until then all of this, without exception, is speculation and anticipatory second-guessing.  

     



    Thats what a forum board is

     

     



    No its a place to just stand by and watch what the pats to and bask in the glory that is BB. 

     

     

    You can't say the D has been bad.

    You can't say anything about free agency or how bad dead money has been in the past.  Drafting is totally off limits.

    You can't talk about any problems on the offense except Brady.  It is always Brady fault... playcalling, formations, personnel, and execution.  BB and the coaching staffs hands are tied with that one under center.

     

    If you follow these guidelines you can talk about whatever you want without being attacked or called names. 

    Have a great time on this message board!  Oh and if you haven't been a fan since 83 or before you are not a real fan and your opinion does not matter step and just read what your "betters" post.

     

    Discussion died about four years back. Now everyone is spoiled who brings up anything they think can be or might have been an improvement for the team in a place it use to thrive.

     




    Do you realize how ridculous you sound?  All we've heard about since SB 42 is how evil BB is and how bad of a GM and coach he is BECAUSE he is a defensive coach.

     

    You're not fooling anyone.

    In fact, all people like you do is enable absolute morons like Bdbreu. Ask Bdbreu where he went to college and what he does for a living. I bet he won't answer. He won't answer such a simple question because he's a 20 year old kid who lives with mommy and works part time at a convenience store.

    Yet, Bbdreu is warning BB and us that BB had a mistake not paying Brent Grimes 5 million to compete with Arrington in the nickel or back up Talib? Dumbest premise ever.

    The picture isn't complete yet!  Deepest FA pool in years.

    All this knee jerk analysis is that of a 12 year old.  It's pathetic for any adult to agree with Bdbreu here. Ever.

     

     




    No!  He is adequately describing how utterly foolish YOU sound!

    And stop being obsessed with peoples personal lives.  No one here is obliged to tell you anything.   It's really creepy!

     

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: With only 3 picks, Not signing cb grimes (at 5.5 mil) and de abraham looks a mistake.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I guess, once again, because BB has not followed the model that many on this forum advocate his plan is deficient.  I'm therefore compelled to pose the question:

    What is BB's master plan, if you please?  

    If by the start of the regular season he's not staffed the 53-man roster adequately (and even then it may be too soon to judge) then perhaps the word 'mistake' applies.  Until then all of this, without exception, is speculation and anticipatory second-guessing.  

     



    This is completely true. I'm only making assumptions based on previous years where the same pattern has followed such as last year, bringing in aging vets and injury risk players and lower cost options to compete in camp where in the end a vast majority washed out or were ineffective. Or the previous year where we saw similar things happening bringing in guys with known injury problems that performed well initially until the injury issues caught up (Carter) or guys that were lower cost high reward vets for short term band-aids that didn't work out, though Waters was a great find.

     

    Lets face it when it comes to FA BB isn't the strongest GM out there. Sure he finds some nice contributors for low cost every so often but he goes through 20 players and millions upon millions in dead money to get those handful of players most of the time. His system works well to stay competitive and not completely wreck the team with bad signings, instead relying on the draft but it also means you never tend to find the top end talent to push you over the top either. And if you don't have great drafts (07-09) you team tends to get stuck badly. Boldin (in 10') is a prime example of a mid level move that could have helped the team. The Pats had a great chance to get him before Balt did and not many would argue that Boldin didn't help Balt beat the Pats this past year. Not a huge flashy big name but for a 3rd and 4th, BB has traded away more for bigger risks in Ocho and Haynesworth. Just look at the mid round picks BB has traded away for players that never perform on the team. He hit big with Moss, Welker, and did decently with Dillion (picks traded vs time on team) but for the most part his FA trades and signings haven't been stellar. I know he's been burnt with Thomas and even Colvin didn't give as much as his contract paid but they still gave decent production and were starters. I don't think you need to sign every big name FA out there or any actually, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't give up a little of the quantity to add better quality either




    Wow, how quickly we forget.

    The list of FA's that have contributed to the team with the most wins in a 13 year period in NFL history goes on and on. Yet you focus on a guy like Chad johnson who was a proven success in the LG but couldn't crack our SUPER BOWL caliber roster of receiving options. I look at that as good problem to have, while a few of you choose to view it in a negative light.

    Take a chance on Haynsworth to see if he can regain some of his passion, it doesn't work...no problem you cut him. Some guys work and some guys don't. I know 1 thing, it is not a concidence that more guys "stuck" when BB had his trusted group of coaches and personnel guys who had been with him for years. Guys like RAC, Weiss, Pioli, Mangina, and Mike Woiceck, not to mention a few others.

    Individual work group coaches(QB coaches, DB coaches etc..) are mainly responsible for motivating players. Aside from Scar we have a relatively inexperienced group of coaches, and I believe this fact is what has prevented us from getting over the hump, more then talent, more then scheme. This is a coaches LG, and as this group gains confidence and respect, we have a better chance at getting guys to play to their potetnial on the biggest stages...something they haven't doen for too long. 

    When you win more games then any other team almost year in and year out, you don't need many guys to come in and beat out the proven talent you already have.

    Right now I think we have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. Fill in some depth and hopefully an upgrade on the D-line and I think we have as good a shot as any team to win the SB...

     

Share