Worst Pats defense ever?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Worst Pats defense ever?

    You decide.

    Projecting the results after 25% of a season:


    This team would be giving up the 4th most points in Pat's history. Only '90, '72 and '68 were worse (combined records W8-L36) Of course those teams didn't have the best offense in the league to cover them like this one does.


    Comparing this D to the most futile Pat's team of all-time, the 1990 team that went 1-15:

    This D is on pace to give up a mind boggling 7,640 yards. The 1990 team gave up 5,697.

    And of course this team gives up over 7 yards per play compared to 1990's 5.9 YPP.

    And 1990 had 33 sacks compared to this D's projected 24. To be fair this team projects to more forced turnovers than 1990 with 36 compared to 16.


    Oh, btw, this offense is on pace to score more points than any other Pat's team ever except 2007 and is on pace to by far gain more yards than any Pat's team in history projecting around 1500 yards more than 2007.


    But some trolls try to say our O led by the future HOFer and reigning MVP Brady is a bigger problem than the D. Ludicrous.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    Comparisons across eras have no merit and serve no purpose.

    It's an entirely different game, with entirely different rules, today.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    So basically through 4 weeks, you have only commented on the negative.

    Why is that?

    The Red Zone D was great to be honest.  Yes they still give up yards, but they played big when needed. 

    Also we have a slew of injuries.  TB lost the Buffalo game by committing 4 int's.  So when you look at it the defense has not lost a game yet in reality.

    Don't get me wrong.  I wanna see some stingy, pass rushin', good coverage D as well.  However, the team is still gelling and should tighten a bit.

    3-1 tied for first and we got the Jets.  Let's see what happens from there.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    Comparisons across eras have no merit and serve no purpose. It's an entirely different game, with entirely different rules, today.
    Posted by p-mike



    Okay, using your premise, then this D is the worst of this era. Satisfied?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    So basically through 4 weeks, you have only commented on the negative. Why is that? The Red Zone D was great to be honest.  Yes they still give up yards, but they played big when needed.  Also we have a slew of injuries.  TB lost the Buffalo game by committing 4 int's.  So when you look at it the defense has not lost a game yet in reality. Don't get me wrong.  I wanna see some stingy, pass rushin', good coverage D as well.  However, the team is still gelling and should tighten a bit. 3-1 tied for first and we got the Jets.  Let's see what happens from there.
    Posted by Getzo


    3-1 is pretty good. I have little doubt we will win the division. But it won't be because of this defense.

    There is very little positive to say about this D. It is some of the worst D I have ever laid eyes on.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    Comparisons across eras have no merit and serve no purpose. It's an entirely different game, with entirely different rules, today.
    Posted by p-mike



    That is most certainly correct. DBs could essentially mug WRs in 1968. 

    And vice versa, there were very few post-west coast offenses out there, so defenses in general didn't have as many points to work with. 

    It was a very different, 3yrds and a cloud of dust game. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    Well . . .   think about it in these terms, Babe:

    This defense looks suspiciously like last year's defense, which was exasperating to watch, but good enough to help the team to the best record in the league. The point being that it doesn't really matter if you fashion some sort of statistical analysis that "proves" this is the worst Pats defense in the long and storied history of ever . . .  if the team wins anyway, all you've done is shattered your own hypothesis.

    My primary concern is the "smoke and mirrors" effect that turnovers create. Last season the Pats set a record for turnover differential, and then couldn't create turnovers in the playoffs . . .  and twice so far this year they've accepted victories from teams that beat themselves with bonehead plays (one from a good Chargers team they might have to beat again, the other a marginal Raiders team that is going nowhere).


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever? : 3-1 is pretty good. I have little doubt we will win the division. But it won't be because of this defense. There is very little positive to say about this D. It is some of the worst D I have ever laid eyes on.
    Posted by BabeParilli

    That's a rather bold proclamation. This defense really hasn't fielded a healthy unit once this season. The closest game was against SD. 

    And they are in the middle of a transition to the 43 ... on a short off season. 

    The tale has yet to be told. McCourty will come out of his slump. Ras-I, if he ever sees the field, looks like the kind of CB who can be competitve against big WRs. And getting a healthy AH will only help the pass-rush ... which was much, much better in week one and two when he was on the field. 

    They'll never be confused with the Ravens' defense ... but they are probably better than the 24.5 ppg they are letting up now. There is no excuse for that, especially when you are playing with a lead or tied for every minute of the season save the 4 minutes it took Brady and Co. to tie it up in Buffalo.  

    If they are still giving up 20+ ppg late this season ... then it might be time to worry. If they are still giving up 25+ late this season ... then this conversation can continue. 

    Until then ... it's incomplete and corrupt data you are looking at. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever? : That is most certainly correct. DBs could essentially mug WRs in 1968.  And vice versa, there were very few post-west coast offenses out there, so defenses in general didn't have as many points to work with.  It was a very different, 3yrds and a cloud of dust game. 
    Posted by zbellino



    That is an interesting notion, but in 1990 the best D was the Giant's allowing 13.2 PPG (Niners were 2nd with 14.7). Currently the Titans are leading with 14 PPG. Last year the Steelers led with 14.5. Certainly stout D is possible in this era.

    I'm not so sure the comparison above is so easily dismissed.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever? : That's a rather bold proclamation. This defense really hasn't fielded a healthy unit once this season. The closest game was against SD.  And they are in the middle of a transition to the 43 ... on a short off season.  The tale has yet to be told. McCourty will come out of his slump. Ras-I, if he ever sees the field, looks like the kind of CB who can be competitve against big WRs. And getting a healthy AH will only help the pass-rush ... which was much, much better in week one and two when he was on the field.  They'll never be confused with the Ravens' defense ... but they are probably better than the 24.5 ppg they are letting up now. There is no excuse for that, especially when you are playing with a lead or tied for every minute of the season save the 4 minutes it took Brady and Co. to tie it up in Buffalo.   If they are still giving up 20+ ppg late this season ... then it might be time to worry. If they are still giving up 25+ late this season ... then this conversation can continue.  Until then ... it's incomplete and corrupt data you are looking at. 
    Posted by zbellino


    Of course I'm hoping we drastically improve on D. It could happen.


    My point here is to show how historically bad this has been. Perspective can be lost without landmarks.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    I can't believe think that Babe isn't a troll.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    You're the troll. What kind of a numbskull would try to portray one of the best offenses ever as the problem and one of the worst D's ever as not the problem? Only a blithering idiot or a troll would do that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are a troll.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    So basically through 4 weeks, you have only commented on the negative. Why is that? The Red Zone D was great to be honest.  Yes they still give up yards, but they played big when needed.  Also we have a slew of injuries.  TB lost the Buffalo game by committing 4 int's.  So when you look at it the defense has not lost a game yet in reality. Don't get me wrong.  I wanna see some stingy, pass rushin', good coverage D as well.  However, the team is still gelling and should tighten a bit. 3-1 tied for first and we got the Jets.  Let's see what happens from there.
    Posted by Getzo


    So when you look at it the defense has not lost a game yet in reality.

    Are you serious? Did you see the end of the BUffalo game? They didn't/couldn't stop the Bills on their last possession.

    As Rusty recently asked me: Did you see the whole game? 
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    Sorry, Russ . . .

    I simply don't buy the premise that our turnovers are "mistakes" but theirs are because our defense is just so trickstery.






     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    In Response to Re: Worst Pat's defense ever? : No. You;ve been exposed.  We all know you aren't a Pats fan with this nonsense and thread starting up as a last ditch effort to save face. Everyone who sees the root cause as our one dimensional offense.  Not bloated stats in the first half against Buffalo or SD, and a weak second half putting unnecessary pressure on our D. You know why the Ravens slapped the jets offense? One dimensional. We never had to be, including in SB 42, last year's playoff loss or against Buffalo last week. End of story. You were exposed with the game yesterday.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    We all know? All 4 of you that voted in the poll saying the O was a worse problem than the D?  Not the 61 of us who voted the D the problem?


    I'm trying to save face? By pointing out this is one of the worst D's in Pat's history?

    You are either a mental case or a troll.

    Basically your whole act has been to discredit the greatest Patriot player ever either by giving BB the credit or downright slamming Brady in subversive ways.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3993225. Show user_3993225's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    In Response to Worst Pat's defense ever?:
    You decide. Projecting the results after 25% of a season
    Posted by BabeParilli


    You should stop right there unless you think Brady is going to throw for 7000 yards or Calvin Johson is going to catch 32 TD passes or all the teams that are 4-0 are going to go undefeated.  I agree that the D can improve, but judge them based on an entire season of work or at least closer to an entire season.  They are young and all of the D's are behind because of the lockout.  Keep it in perspective before you anoint them the worst ever.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: Worst Pat's defense ever?

    You can't project those stats from the first quarter to the entire season. The games change in November and Decemeber. You have to account for weather conditions, injuries, changes in gameplans, etc. The opponents will be different, the team will improve (or regress), the effects of the lockout will fade away, and so on.

    The Patriots play better in the second half of the season. They're not going to allow 7000+ yards on the season.

    Also, if you look at the scores from last season up to week 4. The scores are pretty similar: 
    • 24 to Cincinnati, 28 to the Jets, 30 to the Bills, and 14 to the Dolphins.
    • 24 to Miami, 21 to the Chargers, 34 to the Bills, and 19 to the Raiders.
    Obviously, we're looking for improvement after a playoff loss, but we did go 14-2 last season. It's not the end of the world (or the season) for the Patriots. If this defense still looks this bad by December, then we have a real problem.
     
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