Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : The fact that he's not breaking a law doesn't mean we can't disagree with what he's doing.  What if all of the Broncos bench started kneeling to pray after each TD. Would that be called a penalty for group celebration? Or are they also just using freedom of expression? The fact is that you can justify this kind of overt religiosity in public only because he's a one-off etc. Everyone says "what's the big deal" or "so what if he does, who cares?". And then you have two guys doing it, and then three. And then you raise an eyebrow. And by the time they are all at it, you can't stop it even if you wanted.  Religious fundamentalism (which is what this is..... he may not be a jihadist, but he's a fundamentalist) is a danger, and overt religosity a greater danger.  What I want is one major sports figure who is atheist to score a touchdown and everytime start yelling "I'M AN ATHEIST". Next thing it would be a huge scandal that someone is parading their secularism on live television, and what a horrible example this sets for our kids.  The double standards make me want to throw up. Don't tell me "it's no big deal". It IS a big deal, and people are right to criticize him. Tebow is no better than a televangelist. He knows the business he's in and the audience he has. He gets TV time and he needs to us it to full effect. He could just as easily pray to god while standing still ... but NOOOOOOO it has to be this dramatic kneel position with head bowed down, so the whole world knows that AT THIS MOMENT Tebow is praying, and ofcourse so the cameras can turn and zoom at him. Give me a break. It's called grandstanding, and the gullible will gulp it down same as they do with others.  What next for Tebow? Probably a book deal or two, ofcourse endorsements for all kinds of Christian products, who knows a movie???.  I feel I have a right to criticize Tebow for the good of this society. The fact that he's not breaking a law (freedom of expression you say) doesn't make my protest any less legitimate.
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]
    or.....maybe hes actually praying and doesn't give a F#&k what anyone thinks.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In response to "Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : Tebow won one as a back-up and another as a starter, let's make that clear. But let's look at all the other Heisman winning QBs who never got a shot. Keep this in mind, Tim Tebow's completion percentage is 47%  Troy Smith, not a very good QB, but he did have a completion pct of 50% and he did run faster than Tim.  Jason White never got a shot, he's a much better passer than Tebow.  Eric Crouch was a much better QB prospect than Tebow, where's his shot? They told him he had to be a WR. I bet if Crouch got on his knees and prayed to God every 5 seconds he'd get a chance.  Tebow sucks, but you Tebow-fanatic who love him because of his religion want to make him the beacon of Christendom because you think Tebow is discriminated on because of his religion by the media. Turn on a TV, Tebow's face is everywhere, that's why I hate him. The media doesn't hate him because he's Christian, neither do most people. HE'S JUST A TERRIBLE QB WHO GOT A SHOT AT QBing BECAUSE OF WHAT HE DID IN COLLEGE AND BECAUSE HE'S A POPULAR GUY. He's popular because he's an attractive white Christian who wears his religion on his sleeve. He didn't earn anything and his style of 47% completion percentage is terrible. Even Ryan Leaf completed more passes than this bum!  Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE] Crouch was considered too short at 5'11. You can disagree with that assessment by professional scouts but they are consistent. Be it a white Flutie or Smith or Colt Brennon or Couch short QB's do not go early in the draft if they go at all. Race or religion has nothing to do with it. Crouch did get a shot to be a QB in the CFL and couldn't earn the starting job. White (who is white) had surgery on both his knees and could only play in the shotgun his senior year, surely you're not surprised he didn't make it in the NFL. You've spent alot of time telling me what I think and why I think it here. I'm not the same religion as Tebow. Im not surprised that a 6'4 SEC QB with RB speed would get a shot in the NFL. Cam Newton was similiar. And I would figure that if that same QB wins games and even gets his team to the playoffs he would get plenty of media attention. Don't even try to tell me its all Denver's defense because Denver has a worse defense than NE, one of the worst in the NFL. As for Tebow getting a shot "because of what he did in college". No shlt. That's pretty much how college prospects are judged. That and the fact that Orton stunk and couldn't win got him the job. What he did after getting his shot is what determines his future. You can talk all day long about completion percentages but at the end of the day teams are not trying to win completion percentage awards they are trying to win football games and when he's had a chance to win at the end of the game he's done it. You may think Tebow doesn't have the skills to be a QB but you're opinion isn't supported by the facts, and it's not supported by plenty of people who are in the football business so I certainly don't care about you're scouting reports or opinions on what it takes to make it in the NFL. If you want to classify everyone who doesn't think that Tebow stinks as some sort of religious nut than you are choosing to live in you're own bubble of ignorance. Maybe Bruschi and Wilfork are religious nuts that just don't have you're football acumen to see the incompetence for Tebow.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Well, lets see.  Ali was at the pinnacle of his profession when he became Muslim and the haters came out in force.

    But I think Tebow's meteoric rise speaks volumes of the Bible thumpers.  They adore mediocracy as long as the person is white and praises God.  And if he were Black and prayed in the endzone, they wouldn't care about him. 

    They adore Tebow because he is a symbol that if you are mediocre and embrace Jesus, you can still be successful. 

    I think the Pittsburg defense was more responsible for the miracle touchdown pass than Tebow.  It wasn't a hard pass to throw, and who covers someone so tight on first down without a deep safety? 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Also HE IS WINNING. what was their record with Orton as QB????? No one expected a winning record for this team let alone a wild card win. If he came in, took over for Orton, and lost 5 in a row instead of won 5 in a row No one cares or mentions Tebow.

     

    Also I see no problem with it. He doesnt do it after every touchdown just after big ones and wins, Its no different than in baseball when they hit a home run and point to the sky. Or in an award show when an actor thanks God for the achievement. Yet no one criticizes these actions. Anyone not Christian is going to not like it or not care, Christians are going to see him as brave and a rally point for their religion, and atheists are going to hate him because they hate anything remotely religious for some odd reason.

     

    He isn’t the first, and he wont be the last for any religion.

    I think this country sometimes forgets that Freedom of religion goes both ways.  


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    also this is not a race thing. If he were black the same thing would be happening so please stop it. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Reggie White was adored and was a pastor of his church. when they burnt down his church people came out in full force to support him. He prayed after every game and talked about God in his press conferences. I think the age of "Political Correctness" has changes this country a lot.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In response to "Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?": [QUOTE]Reggie White was adored and was a pastor of his church. when they burnt down his church people came out in full force to support him. He prayed after every game and talked about God in his press conferences. I think the age of "Political Correctness" has changes this country a lot. Posted by Philskiw1[/QUOTE] Reggie White was a beast of an NFL player, he was a fantastic player. Tebow is a terrible QB, he doesn't deserve any of the praise, media attention or credibility as a QB. That's where th hate comes from.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    I think the hate comes from his praying, but thats just my opinion.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]I think the hate comes from his praying, but thats just my opinion.
    Posted by Philskiw1[/QUOTE]

    But you yourself have said Reggie White and Jon Kitna both were very religious and both didn't get as much criticism as Tebow. What's the difference between Tebow and Reggie White? Tebow sucks! 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : Paob, I sort of understand your point about Chris Jackson.  But the reaction to him was because he renounced the USA and its flag despite owing everything he has in life to this country.  He was a success story and admired by many, a great athlete who thrived despite having Tourettes. It wasn't his conversion to Islam that put people off, it was the fact that he called the country he was born in a tyrant, or something to that effect.   There are plenty of Muslims in professional sports that people don't even know about because they live their lives like the rest of us.  They don't make outlandish statements or force their religion on anyone, they just live and exist and play a sport for a living.   If Tebow was a Muslim, he'd be just like every other Muslim in professional sports, a normal person with his own religious beliefs.  If he went the path of Chris Jackson as a Muslim, he would be despised.  Since he's a Christian who happens to have had some success, is considered good looking (by some), humble, charismatic, who won a national championship and a Heisman, and who has a knack for not folding under pressure, he is propped up by Christians everywhere.  He represents what a great deal of this country believes, and his success on the football field and his constant piety makes him appealing to the masses.    I personally hope he and his team get embarrassed Saturday so we can stop hearing about him.     
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    Meaning no disrespect, but I have two names for you that debunk you post.

    1) Cassius Clay

    2) Muhamad Ali

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    But you yourself have said Reggie White and Jon Kitna both were very religious and both didn't get as much criticism as Tebow. What's the difference between Tebow and Reggie White? Tebow sucks! 

    No argument there, but winning solves everything. Look at Flutie he had quite a fan base but he won so that helped him. So what your saying that if Tebow was good the praying would be over looked? I'm thinking not so much.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : lol nice. I wonder how many got the reference But to the point of the thread, is the sky blue? Is water wet? Of course the Tebow fans wouldn't like him as much if he wasn't Christian. Fact is a vast majority of America is some form of Christianity so it raised him to celebrity status just for that. Because he's a celebrity he became the new flavor of the month as a pop celebrates. Tebowing is the new icing (which I hated both). Over the off-season college kids will find Tebowing idiotic and move on to something new but this is the new hot fad for right now. You know what I'm not offended by Tebow praying after a TD or saying "God bless" after a press conference. Seriously if you think he pushing his religion on you because he does that you really need to grow up and realize they are meaningless gestures to you but meaningful to him. Let him do it and just ignore it like a normal person would do. It's not like in a 5min interview he doesn't mention the game and only spouts bible verses or that he's telling you how to live your life. What I think most people find annoying, myself included, isn't Tebow but the Tebow maniacs who are putting him on a pedestal and forcing his religion on you in his name. It's the fanatics I can't stand and the non-stop media coverage that really annoys me, not the praying after a TD or "God bless" after a news conference (BTW BJGE holds a prayer service before and after games and says "God bless" after interviews too but you never hear about it either). Similar to other flavors of the month, the media will die down and you'll still have fanatics but you won't have to hear about him every 2 secs as the next big story comes along (Luck?). Tebow will still be praying after every TD and saying "God bless" after every interview but it won't be talked about nearly as much and I doubt anyone will even care that he's doing it at that point.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Not true.  On the radio I heard a clip in which Tebow was asked how he felt about his growth this year.  Instead addressing it as a football-growth question, he spoke at length about how he had become a better Christian, without mentioning anything about football in his answer.  

    I have been a part of that world - briefly, and long ago - and I know the playbook: recruit, recruit, RECRUIT!  He knows exactly what he is doing, whether you know it or not. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Talk about beating a dead horse (or in this case a dead Bronco)  :) ?

    I could give a rats tail whether or not Tebow prays before or after going on the field.  I also could care even less about what others have for religious beliefs.  

    However, I do care about how and if someone else's beliefs might affect me.   If I understand the First Amendment to the Constitution correctly, it was regarding more of a Freedom From Religion and not Freedom Of Religion.  This is what the First Amendment of 1791 says: 

    "Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, ExpressionRatified 12/15/1791. Note

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    But back to Tebow, he's not the first to give credit and pray to a higher power and wont be the last.  So what? Why should that bother anyone?  But to the media which is only capable of feeding us a Fast Food Version of the News, Tebow is a Double Big Mac. So the Media will continue to use the Tebow story to titillate and agitate because that's what sells.  That is until the next 2,000 Calorie Burger comes along and what's left of the Tebow Big Mac is disgarded for bigger and better sensationalism.  

     

     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]Talk about beating a dead horse (or in this case a dead Bronco)  :) ? I could give a rats tail whether or not Tebow prays before or after going on the field.  I also could care even less about what others have for religious beliefs.   However, I do care about how and if someone else's beliefs might affect me.   If I understand the First Amendment to the Constitution correctly, it was regarding more of a Freedom From Religion and not Freedom Of Religion.  This is what the First Amendment of 1791 says:  " Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press,  Expression .  Ratified  12/15/1791.   Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a  redress  of grievances. But back to Tebow, he's not the first to give credit and pray to a higher power and wont be the last.  So what? Why should that bother anyone?  But to the media which is only capable of feeding us a Fast Food Version of the News, Tebow is a Double Big Mac. So the Media will continue to use the Tebow story to titillate and agitate because that's what sells.  That is until the next 2,000 Calorie Burger comes along and what's left of the Tebow Big Mac is disgarded for bigger and better sensationalism.      
    Posted by NCPatsFan1971[/QUOTE]

    Spot on.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In response to "Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?": [QUOTE]Talk about beating a dead horse (or in this case a dead Bronco)  :) ? I could give a rats tail whether or not Tebow prays before or after going on the field.  I also could care even less about what others have for religious beliefs.   However, I do care about how and if someone else's beliefs might affect me.   If I understand the First Amendment to the Constitution correctly, it was regarding more of a Freedom From Religion and not Freedom Of Religion.  This is what the First Amendment of 1791 says:  " Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press,  Expression .  Ratified  12/15/1791.   Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a  redress  of grievances. But back to Tebow, he's not the first to give credit and pray to a higher power and wont be the last.  So what? Why should that bother anyone?  But to the media which is only capable of feeding us a Fast Food Version of the News, Tebow is a Double Big Mac. So the Media will continue to use the Tebow story to titillate and agitate because that's what sells.  That is until the next 2,000 Calorie Burger comes along and what's left of the Tebow Big Mac is disgarded for bigger and better sensationalism.       Posted by NCPatsFan1971[/QUOTE] I don't know what you're getting at. It actually says "Freedom of religion" right in the definition you posted. You said you care how it affects you. You think it's affecting you? That definition seems pretty cut and dry.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]The double standards make me want to throw up.
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    You'll have to forgive me if this point has already been made, but I honestly have no interest in reading any more of this Tebow/Jesus nonsense. I never liked Tebow as a player when he was at Florida and figured he would just dry up and blow away like every other Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback. Alas, he did not, but I can tell you that the incessant Tebow blowback is beginning to put me in his corner.

    Here's the thing about the "double standard" in particular and fishing threads like this one in general: If Tebow were something other than a Christian you certainly would not be hearing any of the criticism of him that is becoming so fashionable in the media. Dopes like us in chat forums can say whatever they want, and that's all well and fine, but you can bet your boots and mittens that nobody with a legitimate soapbox in our wonderfully politically correct society would dare make fun of Tebow's faith if he were, in fact, a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew or anything other than a white, Christian male.

    There most certainly is a double standard at play here, but it's not the one our antagonistic OP wishes it were.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?": I don't know what you're getting at. It actually says "Freedom of religion" right in the definition you posted. You said you care how it affects you. You think it's affecting you? That definition seems pretty cut and dry.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    But you know that Madison wrote the Bill of Rights and that Madison was an atheist, right?  

    The language was cautious, but in the context of the times, and considering that one of the leading motivations of the Revolution was to form a new kind of gov't in which religion was removed and disallowed from government, (as the combination of the two had been proven to corrupt the Middle East and Europe for thousands of years),  the intent truly was to provide freedom from religion.  You cannot underestimate the lingering backlash of the Salem Witch Trials in the American consciousness.  America was never a less religious place than it was then, during the Revolution, and the Salem fallout plus the legacy of corrupt religious rule were the two main reasons why it was so. It's not called the Age of Reason for nothing.
     
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    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]to answer the original question....heck no! Folks love Tebow becasue he is a Christian, a belief that this country was founded on. Folks are tired of having other religions pushed down their throat, particularily by people that hate and want to kill Americans. I like Tebow, and glad he is doing well, but Tebow Time ends Saturday!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    You think the US was founded on Christianity. 

    I'm sorry to inform you that you are mistaken. Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists if anything, and the principles the US was founded on had nothing to do with religious belief. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : You'll have to forgive if this point has already been made, but I honestly have no interest in reading any more of this Tebow/Jesus nonsense. I never liked Tebow as a player when he was at Florida and figured he would just dry up and blow away like every other Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback. Alas, he did not, but I can tell you that the incessant Tebow blowback is beginning to put me in his corner. Here's the thing about the "double standard" in particular and fishing threads like this one in general: If Tebow were something other than a Christian you certainly would not be hearing any of the criticism of him that is becoming so fashionable in the media. Dopes like us in chat forums can say whatever they want, and that's all well and fine, but you can bet your boots and mittens that nobody with a legitimate soapbox in our wonderfully politically correct society would dare make fun of Tebow's faith if he were, in fact, a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew or anything other than a white, Christian male. There most certainly is a double standard at play here, but it's not the one our antagonistic OP wishes it were.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    I think you are way off.  My wife is Buddhist.  I was shocked to find out recently that American poll respondents dislike and distrust Buddhists even more than they do Muslims.  http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/09/17/religious-zealotry-and-american-grace.html

    Since 80+ % of Americans define themselves as Christians, it doesn't take much faith to attribute the majority of this dislike and mistrust to Christians.  This was a large survey.  But when do you ever hear of radical Buddhists assaulting anybody?  They are the most peaceful and gentle people compared to all the people of all the major belief systems, without doubt.  And what happened when Richard Gere went public, trying to persuade people to embrace his faith?  He was thoroughly denounced and ridiculed by the American public.  It destroyed his career. 

    Persecution of Christians in the Americas is a myth, spread by Christians.   Historically, for the past 600 years, when a religious group has suffered persecution in the Americas, it has always been the Christians who are doing the persecuting. It is absurd to call the persecutors the persecuted.  Nay, it is sinful.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Love and tolerance..... it is in the book the Christians wave around while they're bombing abortion clinics and partying at Gay people's funerals.
     
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    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?:
    [QUOTE]Love and tolerance..... it is in the book the Christians wave around while they're bombing abortion clinics and partying at Gay people's funerals.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Sadly accurate and concise.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    In response to "Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim? : But you know that Madison wrote the Bill of Rights and that Madison was an atheist, right?   The language was cautious, but in the context of the times, and considering that one of the leading motivations of the Revolution was to form a new kind of gov't in which religion was removed and disallowed from government, (as the combination of the two had been proven to corrupt the Middle East and Europe for thousands of years),  the intent truly was to provide freedom from religion.  You cannot underestimate the lingering backlash of the Salem Witch Trials in the American consciousness.  America was never a less religious place than it was then, during the Revolution, and the Salem fallout plus the legacy of corrupt religious rule were the two main reasons why it was so. It's not called the Age of Reason for nothing. Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE] As far as I know nobody knows if Madison was an Atheist. If you have some evidence of that I'd be interested. But more to the point it is likely the founding fathers did not want a theocracy. They didn't want laws to be based off from Christian, or Muslim, or any other religious beliefs just for the sake of those beliefs. However they didn't write that down, what they did instead was create freedom of religion and democracy making it very difficult for there to be a consensus religion or that group to have the power to make the laws. They also didn't want people to be persecuted for believing whatever religion they wanted (that was also a part of their history). But of course in a democracy is enough people agree to a law it becomes a law, however that law cannot violate someone's religious beliefs. However, too many people thinks that observing someone's religious practices violated their rights. It doesn't, freedom of religion comes into play if the government wants to make religion illegal. Nothing of the sort is happening with Tebow or anyone else. Wanting to stop Tebow from talking or praying when he wants, now that is a different story.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Would the Tebow fan(atic)s still be in love with the guy if he were Muslim?

    Actually, they wrote extensively about their collective mistrust of religion in their personal letters, their newspaper op-eds and so forth.  I have heard the curator of the Madsion letters say on the radio, in responose to Christians claiming he was a Christian and wanted Christian beliefs integrated into our laws, "I have found no evidence whatsoever that James Madison was religious."  She would know better than anybody alive.

    I and nobody else is saying we want to pass a law forbidding Tebow from making his prayers on TV and boosting his faith at every presser.  We are denouncing his public religious pronouncements ad nauseum, his promotional methods (Bible verse citation on his eye black) and his elevated celebrity because of his beliefs despite his limited talent.  We are annoyed that he never gives it a rest.  That is not persecution.  We have the right to resist his hype as much as he has a right to play off his hype.

    Here are some helpful quotes by Madison.  Remember, politicians will play it safe and pretend to be religious in order to cast a wider net over the voters.  Madison, Lincoln, others were such politicians.  But if these are not the words of an atheist, or at least an agnostic, or at the most, a deist, then I must be blind:

     

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