Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    So I've lumped all my outside linebackers/defensive ends into a single category because in our system they're essentially the same position.  People might question the likelihood of BB taking one but I would remind you that Cunningham, Trevor Scott and others have tenuous positions with no long term deals in place and add there is an increased emphasize on getting to the QB, you can never have enough talent here and it would allow us to slide Ninck back to more of a linebacker position.  Just like all other positions by the day before the draft I will pare this list down.  I hope to have my entire draft board to 25 players that the Pat's will select.

     

    OLB/DE

    Ezekiel Ansah               DE       Brigham Young        Sr        6-5      271

    Jamie Collins              OLB     Southern Miss            Sr        6-4      250

    Barkevious Mingo       OLB     LSU                            Jr         6-4      241

    Dion Jordan               OLB     Oregon                       Sr        6-6      248

    Datone Jones             DE       UCLA                          Sr        6-4      283

    Bjoern Werner           DE       Florida State               Jr         6-3      266

    Margus Hunt               DE       Southern Methodist   Sr        6-8      277

    Cornellius Carradine     DE       Florida State              Sr        6-4      276

    Damontre Moore         DE       Texas A&M                 Jr         6-5      250

    Sam Montgomery       DE       LSU                             Jr         6-3      262

    Alex Okafor                 DE       Texas                          Sr        6-5      264

    Devin Taylor               DE       South Carolina            Sr        6-7      266

    Alec Ogletree             OLB     Georgia                       Jr         6-3      242

    Corey Lemonier          OLB     Auburn                       Jr         6-4      255

    Cornelius Wash.         DE       Georgia                       Sr        6-4      265

    Chase Thomas           OLB     Stanford                     Sr        6-3      244

    DeVonte Holloman    OLB     South Carolina            Sr        6-2      243

    Ty Powell                   OLB     Harding                      Sr        6-2      249

    John Simon                DE       Ohio State                  Sr        6-2      257

    Lavar Edwards          DE       LSU                             Sr        6-4      277

    Michael Buchanan    DE       Illinois                         Sr        6-6      255

    David Bass                 DE       Missouri Western St.  Sr        6-4      262

    Travis Johnson          OLB     San Jose State             Sr        6-2      240

    Nathan Williams        OLB     Ohio State                  Sr        6-3      241

    Joe Kruger                 DE       Utah                          Jr         6-6      269

     

    There are a bunch of guys who are played or are projected as outside linebackers like Sio Moore, Jon Bostic, Trevardo Williams, Zaviar Gooden, Brandon Magee, Eric Martin and John Lotulelei who I think are good players but just aren't big enough to man the edge at the next level, it doesn't mean they couldn't slide inside or find work as a situational pass rusher. 



    Jamie Collins was my second rated OLB/DE in the entire draft, mad athletic and productive there is no way this isn't a good pick.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    So I've lumped all my outside linebackers/defensive ends into a single category because in our system they're essentially the same position.  People might question the likelihood of BB taking one but I would remind you that Cunningham, Trevor Scott and others have tenuous positions with no long term deals in place and add there is an increased emphasize on getting to the QB, you can never have enough talent here and it would allow us to slide Ninck back to more of a linebacker position.  Just like all other positions by the day before the draft I will pare this list down.  I hope to have my entire draft board to 25 players that the Pat's will select.

     

    OLB/DE

    Ezekiel Ansah               DE       Brigham Young        Sr        6-5      271

    Jamie Collins              OLB     Southern Miss            Sr        6-4      250

    Barkevious Mingo       OLB     LSU                            Jr         6-4      241

    Dion Jordan               OLB     Oregon                       Sr        6-6      248

    Datone Jones             DE       UCLA                          Sr        6-4      283

    Bjoern Werner           DE       Florida State               Jr         6-3      266

    Margus Hunt               DE       Southern Methodist   Sr        6-8      277

    Cornellius Carradine     DE       Florida State              Sr        6-4      276

    Damontre Moore         DE       Texas A&M                 Jr         6-5      250

    Sam Montgomery       DE       LSU                             Jr         6-3      262

    Alex Okafor                 DE       Texas                          Sr        6-5      264

    Devin Taylor               DE       South Carolina            Sr        6-7      266

    Alec Ogletree             OLB     Georgia                       Jr         6-3      242

    Corey Lemonier          OLB     Auburn                       Jr         6-4      255

    Cornelius Wash.         DE       Georgia                       Sr        6-4      265

    Chase Thomas           OLB     Stanford                     Sr        6-3      244

    DeVonte Holloman    OLB     South Carolina            Sr        6-2      243

    Ty Powell                   OLB     Harding                      Sr        6-2      249

    John Simon                DE       Ohio State                  Sr        6-2      257

    Lavar Edwards          DE       LSU                             Sr        6-4      277

    Michael Buchanan    DE       Illinois                         Sr        6-6      255

    David Bass                 DE       Missouri Western St.  Sr        6-4      262

    Travis Johnson          OLB     San Jose State             Sr        6-2      240

    Nathan Williams        OLB     Ohio State                  Sr        6-3      241

    Joe Kruger                 DE       Utah                          Jr         6-6      269

     

    There are a bunch of guys who are played or are projected as outside linebackers like Sio Moore, Jon Bostic, Trevardo Williams, Zaviar Gooden, Brandon Magee, Eric Martin and John Lotulelei who I think are good players but just aren't big enough to man the edge at the next level, it doesn't mean they couldn't slide inside or find work as a situational pass rusher. 

     



    Jamie Collins was my second rated OLB/DE in the entire draft, mad athletic and productive there is no way this isn't a good pick.

     



    How is he in coverage? From what i've read, he seems to have decent coverage ability, which is definitely a plus.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

     

    How is he in coverage? From what i've read, he seems to have decent coverage ability, which is definitely a plus.

     



    The thing that stuck out to me about him first and foremost was production.  Not only was he ranked high in sacks and tackles for loss (ranked very high on both) but the most impressive thing was he also was ranked high in solo tackles which tell us he makes plays out in space and is more than just a sack machine.  

     

    Another indicator of this was his superb shuttle and cone times at the combine, when you add that to decent forty time (4.59) for a big man, the best vertical leap of all linebackers and defensive linemen (insane 41.5, an inch away from the all time record and a sign of pure explosiveness) as well as actually setting the all time record for the combine in the broad jump at 11'7"

    The guy was the best player available.  Hopefully with his addition to Chandler Jones and Kelly in the middle we can create enough pressure where our coverage won't have to hold for days on end like it has for the past three seasons or more...

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Jamie Collins was my second rated OLB/DE in the entire draft, mad athletic and productive there is no way this isn't a good pick.

     



    Good job Wozzy.  I don't watch enough college ball to really judge these guys, but from the beginning I liked the idea of picking a versatile edge guy who can rush, defend the run, and drop into coverage.  I think this gives the Pats something they've been lacking.  Nink is the closest, but he doesn't have the explosiveness you'd ideally like.  Jones is explosive, but I'm not sure he's as versatile.  He did show against the run last year (more than I expected actually), but I haven't seen anything that convinces me he's much dropping back into coverage.  If Collins has that versatility on the edge combined with some explosiveness, he's going to help this defense a lot.  

    I also like the idea of Dobson . . . again, can't say I've watched him at all, but from what I read he fits the bill.  The two Rutgers guys are for depth and special teams.  We'll see how they turn out.  

    Today, I'd like to see them get an interior D lineman, one more receiver, and maybe a developmental O linemen.  At this point in the draft, I don't expect anyone to be a day one starter, but you've got the opportunity to find a diamond in the rough or at least build some depth.

    I think it's too early to get too excited about any of these guys--they all have to prove themselves--but I also see no reason to be disappointed with what the Pats did.  They addressed needs at receiver, on the edge, and in the defensive backfield.  LIke everyone else, I would have loved to have seen them get someone I feel would be a certain and immediate impact player, but given this particular draft class (low on obvious impact players) and the Pats limited picks going in to the draft, you've got to like what they did. 

     

     

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    The only player I didn't project on my final day of picks so far was Aaron Dobson but I did have him up on my big board of receivers as the 5th best "big" guy thanks to Bredbru and others asking me to investigate further, initially I didn't have him ranked because he didn't work out at the combine but after pulling up his Pro Day numbers from Marshall he was pretty impressive.  

    He is 6'3" tall, weighs 210 pounds so for the people who wanted a tall receiver there you go, his 4.37 forty would have placed him as the 3rd fastest receiver in the entire draft and tied as the 6th overall fastest guy in the entire draft, you can't teach big and fast.  His agility drills weren't amazing but they weren't bad either, for an outside threat WR he doesn't have to be nimble like a cat he just has to be fast, physical, have soft hands and jump high (35" vert) all of which he seems to do.  I'll have to trust that BB has given him some brain teasers and hope he can pick this system up, that is his biggest challenge.

    Logan Ryan was a standout for a few reasons, not the least of which his 4th place ranking in agility drills at the combine, very important for corners. Also he has decent size, ok strength but most important was his production.  The guy led the entire nation in pass breakups and even picked off 4 INT's.  All the corners I had projected higher were gone so this was a good pick in that spot.  Will Davis was available but Logan is slightly bigger which may have been the overriding trait that BB liked as well as maybe seeing more of this kid than Davis who was all the way out in Utah.  Davis was taken by the Dolphins who have had a very impressive draft so far.

    As far as Duron Harmon goes, I didn't review or rank any safeties so I'll have to trust Belichick on this one.  His forty time was decent (4.5) which would have placed him as the 4th best time amongst safeties, his 36" vert would have placed him just outside of the top ten, he was weak only pressing 15 reps on the bench and while his three cone drill was only ok his 20 yard shuttle times were horrid.  This guy had better have a heart as big as a whale, otherwise I think BB may have fallen in love with a piece of film or something he saw at the Rutgers Pro Day when he was scouting Logan Ryan?

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Good job Wozzy.  I don't watch enough college ball to really judge these guys, but from the beginning I liked the idea of picking a versatile edge guy who can rush, defend the run, and drop into coverage.  I think this gives the Pats something they've been lacking.  Nink is the closest, but he doesn't have the explosiveness you'd ideally like.  Jones is explosive, but I'm not sure he's as versatile.  He did show against the run last year (more than I expected actually), but I haven't seen anything that convinces me he's much dropping back into coverage.  If Collins has that versatility on the edge combined with some explosiveness, he's going to help this defense a lot.  

    I also like the idea of Dobson . . . again, can't say I've watched him at all, but from what I read he fits the bill.  The two Rutgers guys are for depth and special teams.  We'll see how they turn out.  

    Today, I'd like to see them get an interior D lineman, one more receiver, and maybe a developmental O linemen.  At this point in the draft, I don't expect anyone to be a day one starter, but you've got the opportunity to find a diamond in the rough or at least build some depth.

    I think it's too early to get too excited about any of these guys--they all have to prove themselves--but I also see no reason to be disappointed with what the Pats did.  They addressed needs at receiver, on the edge, and in the defensive backfield.  LIke everyone else, I would have loved to have seen them get someone I feel would be a certain and immediate impact player, but given this particular draft class (low on obvious impact players) and the Pats limited picks going in to the draft, you've got to like what they did. 



    Well, I'm with you there, truthfully I don't watch any college football unless it's the championship game and even then it's not a given.  I make all of my assessments off college stats, combine measurables and Pro Day measurables.  While I don't think there are ever any guarantees I do think there is certain criteria needed to play pro football at the highest level and all the hoping in the world won't change a physical deficiency.  With the exception of where Harmon was picked I can't say there's much to complain about, if this kid plays with heart and grit than where he was projected to be picked will be moot.  You can't measure heart...

     

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     


    Well, I'm with you there, truthfully I don't watch any college football unless it's the championship game and even then it's not a given.  I make all of my assessments off college stats, combine measurables and Pro Day measurables.  While I don't think there are ever any guarantees I do think there is certain criteria needed to play pro football at the highest level and all the hoping in the world won't change a physical deficiency.  With the exception of where Harmon was picked I can't say there's much to complain about, if this kid plays with heart and grit than where he was projected to be picked will be moot.  You can't measure heart...

     

     



    One thing I noticed in BB's press conference is that he talked about how well Ryan and Harmon communicated with each other when they played at Rutgers.  I know he's been frustrated with secondary players like Merriweather and (I believe) Chung who just weren't good at the mental part of the game.  I know he loves McCourty exactly because he is a smart player who communicates well.  A. Wilson is the same and so is Arrington.  I think he's drafting brains as much as anything . . .

     

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    do you think Collins can get pressure on the QB if he plays OLB?

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    do you think Collins can get pressure on the QB if he plays OLB?



    Maybe, but I also think the ability to drop back into coverage adds a dimension our edge players haven't had recently.  We've been playing a 4-3, where our ends (Nink and Jones) pretty much head upfield on every passing play and the two outside LBs, Mayo and Hightower, are not super coverage LBs.  So if Collins can come in an add a coverage skill on the edge and also pass rush, we get a level of versatility we didn't have before.  I really like this.  

    Just have to hope the kid lives up to the potential that seems to be there. 

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    One thing I noticed in BB's press conference is that he talked about how well Ryan and Harmon communicated with each other when they played at Rutgers.  I know he's been frustrated with secondary players like Merriweather and (I believe) Chung who just weren't good at the mental part of the game.  I know he loves McCourty exactly because he is a smart player who communicates well.  A. Wilson is the same and so is Arrington.  I think he's drafting brains as much as anything . . .


    Agree with this, that being said this kid is a lot like James Sanders but a little more athletic.  If he is smart and lays the lumber than he may have a future.

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    do you think Collins can get pressure on the QB if he plays OLB?



    I have to think we'll play more 3/4 now; Vince at nose, Kelly at one end and a combination of Armstead/Love/Deaderick at the other end.  This will give us Spikes and Mayo in the middle, put Chandler Jones at the elephant OLB spot on one side with Collins as the weakside linebacker.  This would also allow Nincovich to play all the way across, he has the versitility to play every position.  They can also run the 4 man front they've been running and it will have more pop with Kelly in the middle next to Vince and Jones and Collins or Ninc playing end.  Collins is an every down linebacker, he can play in coverage but he is explosive rushing the passer and getting in the backfield.

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    I predicted the Harmon selection.....I just forgot to post it Sealed

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    Not sure how anybody can complain about the 1st 3 picks. Dobson's 1 handed back handed td catch was the best I've seen in a while. Collins is the athletic cover lb who can also rush the passer that most wanted,and Logan was the highest rated CB available(and looks great btw)With Tommy Kelly we no longer needed another DT. Id like to see another receiver added In the 4rth, and let's not forget the Dennard type players BB finds in the 7th!

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    Josh Boyce is an outstanding pick.  He had really impressive shuttle and three cone drills, was blazing fast, super strong, good jumping ability and production.  He is dangerous inside or out.

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    Bravo Wozzy .  good thread, look forward to next years    

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    Sorry, but it was your opinion that we could lump Floyd in with a bunch of guys actually projected to be around in rd 2 or when the Pats picked. That was your 'depth chart' not a projection of future talent, that was only your spin.

    Seriously, I said I was done with this, but for you to continue to insult Floyd while at the same time claiming you actually were aware he wouldn't be anywhere close to where the Pats picked (so why isn't he in rd 1 on your depth chart?) is sad. You ranked 11 DT's ahead of a likely top 10 pick, then acted like a defiant a** when called out on the error.



    Rameakap, are you out there anywhere buddy or did you go back to hiding your face on the Celtics board?

    I thought after a few games we could recap where the rookie defensive tackles stood, specifically a hand full I had ranked ahead of your favorite, you remember the one I said was overrated, the one you said would be taken with the 4th pick by the Raiders and 99% sure wouldn't last past the teens but ultimately was taken 23rd by the hapless Vikings...

    Star Lotulelei - Listed as the starting nose tackle for the Panthers, my favorite DT in the draft Star has started all three games so far and recorded his first sack Sunday against the Giants, you would have taken Shariff over this guy... good work.  Here's a good article about how the Panthers have a superstar in the making with SL: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/09/23/4337643/panthers-star-lotulelei-needs.html#.UkGUvCh4Z04

     

    Johnathan Hankins - Came out as a junior, just turned 21, working his way up the depth chart after some injury setbacks, ultimately will be better than Floyd.              

    Sylvester Williams - Firmly entrenched behind two behemoth starters and the best run stuffers in the league with the Broncos, Williams still has played and worked his way into the rotation of the best run stuffing team in the NFL.

    Johnathan Jenkins - currently listed as a backup he has started two games out of three for the Saints. Looking pretty good to me...

    Jesse Williams - blew out his knee, put on the IR by the Seahawks                    

    Kwame Geathers - Has played in all three games, listed as the back up nose tackle for the Chargers. Even has a highlight:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000234042/Kwame-Geathers-blocks-Cardinals-FG                     

    Akeem Spence - Starting for the Bucs, sacked Tom Brady on Sunday.

    Brandon Williams - Currently 2nd on the depth chart at DT for the Ravens.  http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Brandon-Williams-Gets-First-NFL-Sack-On-Cam-Newton-/8320f0b4-a1c7-4ec0-abdb-d1a62ac4abb1

    Sheldon Richardson - Currently starting for the Jets, has 1.5 sacks.

    Shariff Floyd in the meantime, the guy you wanted to take with the 4th overall pick and attacked me for saying he was overrated is currently sliding backwards on the Vikings depth chart, has 1.5 tackles on the season.  

    It's not really fair to judge rookies after three games but if you take a player in the top 5 you expect them to start and contribute right away.  Like I said, he looks like a world beater to me, a real impact player.  Sure glad I didn't listen to Kiper and the rest of the experts...

     

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    Star was my fav DT too. He was an NT who had a knack for getting into the backfield.

    For the longest time, he was a top 3 pick, until the combine when there was that scare on his health. For some reason, when doctors cleared him eventually, he did not get back up into the top 5. I thought it was a bargain where he was picked.

     
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    Re: Wozzy's Draft Guide 2013

    Am actually curious to find out how the 2013 class of heavies do by end of the season. I thought this was an exceptional class. Yet, there were draft gurus who were saying it was a weak DT class.

    I thought it would not be bad to take any of Lotulelei/ Hankins/ Jenkins/ S Williams/ J Williams/ B Williams.

     
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